Official The Ultimates Thread

[celldog]

Yes. He's from Scotland, to be precise.

That explains a lot, now.

 

[The Question]

What do you mean?

 

[doih]

1) When was the last time the Iraqis used them? Or Iran? Or any other country in the world? Never. Hell, in the history of the world, the United States is the only country to ever use nuclear explosives in a military situation.

Question I don't agree with some of your points in politics but I think you're a pretty smart young person. However, this statement in my view is quite misguided and in my opinion is the product of most Western countries' education systems 'glorify Japan' bias.

hmm..on some other stuff: I think some people if they read university level book on history of Christianity will be surprised at how the relations between Islam and Christianity after Muhammad's death.

Sorry for offtopics post

 

[The Question]

Question I don't agree with some of your points in politics but I think you're a pretty smart young person. However, this statement in my view is quite misguided and in my opinion is the product of most Western countries' education systems 'glorify Japan' bias.

It has nothing to do with glorifying Japan of being biased. I was simply stating a fact. The U.S. IS the only country in history to actually use nuclear weapons outside of tests.

 

[celldog]

What do you mean?

the Euro-slant towards America. I think you know what I was getting at.

 

[The Question]

Oh. Well, I guess you have a point there. Yeah, I guess he has a Euro slant. Not to America, but definately to the American government.

 

[celldog]

Question I don't agree with some of your points in politics but I think you're a pretty smart young person. However, this statement in my view is quite misguided and in my opinion is the product of most Western countries' education systems 'glorify Japan' bias.

hmm..on some other stuff: I think some people if they read university level book on history of Christianity will be surprised at how the relations between Islam and Christianity after Muhammad's death.

So..what's your point??

Whatever the relationship was, it has nothing to do with today's terrorism...which byt the way is being caused by Islam. Terrorism not just against the U.S. but against Budhists and anybody else. Those were not christians that bombed those London subways or that club in Bali.

Sorry for offtopics post

No problem.

 

[celldog]

Oh. Well, I guess you have a point there. Yeah, I guess he has a Euro slant. Not to America, but definately to the American government.

Same thing. He doesn't mind capitalizing on American dollars. Nor does he mind the fact that this Government saved his grand- parents' bacon 64 years ago so that he can write this crap today.

What a hypocrite.

 

[The Question]

America and it's government are not the same thing. The governemnt is not american culture, or it's people (technically, we're a republic, not a true democracy). The governmemt isn't everything the country is.

And how is he a hypocrite? Just because the U.S. government of 64 years ago saved his country doesn't mean he can't disaprove of the actions of the U.S. government of today.

 

[CAPT. MARVEL]

Wow. And such a well supported arguement.

Sigh. First of all if you can't understand the war with al-qaeda/taliban, please refrain from ever referring to yourself as centrist. I will sum it up for you though, Al-qaeda attacks us on 9/11. 3,000 Americans die. Al-qaeda is based in Afghanistan. Taliban rules Afghanistan and is in cahoots/harboring with Al-qaeda, other Islamic radical groups, and worldwide heroin/opium production. They are the bad guys. We overthrow the Taliban and kill or capture 2/3rds of Al-qaeda's infrastructure.

Now how exactly was it unjustified?

 

[celldog]

Sigh. First of all if you can't understand the war with al-qaeda/taliban, please refrain from ever referring to yourself as centrist. I will sum it up for you though, Al-qaeda attacks us on 9/11. 3,000 Americans die. Al-qaeda is based in Afghanistan. Taliban rules Afghanistan and is in cahoots/harboring with Al-qaeda, other Islamic radical groups, and worldwide heroin/opium production. They are the bad guys. We overthrow the Taliban and kill or capture 2/3rds of Al-qaeda's infrastructure.

Now how exactly was it unjustified?

The mean ol' U.S. forced its will on those helpless little terrorists....

 

[celldog]

America and it's government are not the same thing. The governemnt is not american culture, or it's people (technically, we're a republic, not a true democracy). The governmemt isn't everything the country is.

And how is he a hypocrite? Just because the U.S. government of 64 years ago saved his country doesn't mean he can't disaprove of the actions of the U.S. government of today.

Because what we are doing in Iraq is the same thing we did for his friggin' country. We protect innocents from despotic maniacs and and get no gratittude for it.

 

[celldog]

This in from Fox News..


Al Qaeda Backfires in Jordan

Friday, December 09, 2005
By James Phillips
ARCHIVE
•Al Qaeda Backfires in Jordan

Terrorist acts generally backfire.

For example, Afghanistan’s Taliban government supported Usama bin Laden until the 9/11 attacks. In the aftermath of those strikes, the American military swiftly overthrew the Taliban with the help of many Afghans who were fed up with its harsh rule.

On Nov. 9, Jordanians were outraged by Al Qaeda’s latest atrocity. On that day, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's “Al Qaeda in Iraq” terrorist network bombed three hotels in Amman, Jordan, killing 57 people. By indiscriminately attacking fellow Muslims, Al Qaeda may have stripped the sheen from its image, lessening the appeal of extremism among younger Muslims, at least in Jordan.

Zarqawi’s organization has roots in Jordan, but it recruited four Iraqi suicide bombers — including a husband-and-wife team — to execute the attacks, perhaps to preserve its Jordanian members for future attacks inside that country. The woman’s bomb failed to explode, and she was later captured.

The operational shortcomings of the bombings were accompanied by political miscalculations. Many Jordanians have long supported suicide bombings against Israel and against U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq. Zarqawi was a local hero to Jordanian Islamic militants. Even some Jordanians who did not share his radical ideology were impressed by his high profile-attacks inside Iraq.

(Story continues below)

ADVERTISEMENTSAdvertise Here


But the Amman bombings, which slaughtered dozens of Jordanian men, women and children who were celebrating a wedding, outraged Jordanians of all stripes. Jordan’s Palestinian majority, which might have reacted with schadenfreude toward an attack that targeted King Abdullah’s government (resented since its 1994 peace treaty with Israel) were shocked by the deaths of the many Palestinians who perished in the bombings. For several days after the bombings, Jordanians took to the streets to participate in large demonstrations, shouting, “Burn in hell, al-Zarqawi.”

The deliberate targeting of Jordanian Muslims reportedly dismayed even Al Qaeda supporters in Iraq. A relative of one of the bombers complained to a Washington Post reporter, “We were shocked when we saw on TV the number of civilians killed in the operation because we thought the killed would be Americans and Jews, but they were Muslims, regretfully.”

Several radical Islamic websites that normally celebrate Al Qaeda’s terrorist attacks are now replete with criticism of the indiscriminate slaughter of innocent Muslims. This criticism echoes the gentle reproach of Zarqawi’s brutal tactics delivered in a July 2005 letter to Zarqawi from Ayman al-Zawahiri, Usama bin Laden’s chief lieutenant. Zawahiri cautioned Zarqawi that popular support is important for realizing Al Qaeda’s long-term goals and that “more than half of this battle is taking place in the battlefield of the media.”

Zarqawi clearly has disregarded Zawahiri’s advice. Like many of the “Afghan Arabs” who returned from the jihad in Afghanistan in the early 1990s and unsuccessfully tried to import the jihad into their home countries, Zarqawi’s bloodthirsty zeal, when inflicted on fellow Muslims, has undermined the appeal of his revolutionary ideology. Similarly overzealous mistakes triggered a popular backlash that led to the defeat of radical Islamic movements in Egypt and Algeria in the 1990s.

This isn’t the first time Zarqawi has attempted to attack a site in his home country. He grew up in a suburb of the Jordanian city of Zarqa as Ahmad Fadhil Nazzar Khalaylah and took the nom de guerre Zarqawi, “the man from Zarqa.” He was involved in the failed millennium bombing plot in 1999 (which targeted the same Radisson hotel bombed this month).

In October 2002, Zarqawi’s group murdered American diplomat Laurence Foley in Amman. In April 2004, Jordanian authorities averted Zarqawi’s planned bombing of Jordan’s intelligence headquarters and other buildings. That attack reportedly also would have included the use of poisonous chemicals, one of Zarqawi’s specialties.

In 2001, he fled Afghanistan through Iran, apparently with the cooperation of the Iranian government, and set up operations in Iraq with the suspected support of Saddam Hussein’s regime. In 2004, Zarqawi merged his group with bin Laden’s and was named the leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq. Although he still has ideological differences with bin Laden, including a fierce hostility to Shiites that has led his group to bomb Shiite mosques in Iraq, Zarqawi now ranks second only to bin Laden in the eyes of many Sunni Islamic extremists.

Zarqawi has developed a strong network among Arab Muslims living in Europe, particularly in Germany, Britain, Italy, France and Spain. This network may have been involved in the May 2003 bombings in Casablanca, Morocco, and the November 2003 bombings in Istanbul, Turkey. Zarqawi’s followers, many of whom hold European Union passports, pose a growing threat to the United States.

If he can establish a sanctuary in Iraq, Zarqawi’s branch of Al Qaeda will become a much bigger threat. That’s why it’s so important to help the Iraqi government defeat terrorists that threaten it, its neighbors and even the United States.

The only silver lining in the dark cloud of Al Qaeda’s Nov. 9 bombing is that it has awakened Jordanians and possibly a few other Muslims about the urgent need to defeat al Qaeda.

James Phillips is a research fellow in Middle Eastern studies in the Davis Institute for International Studies at The Heritage Foundation.


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[The Question]

Because what we are doing in Iraq is the same thing we did for his friggin' country. We protect innocents from despotic maniacs and and get no gratittude for it.

No, it's not the same thing. We were helping Britain, a long time ally, when it was being atacked by an enemy force. And, we didn't do this until after we had been atacked ourselves. So, no, it really isn't the same thing.

 

[The Question]

This in from Fox News..


Al Qaeda Backfires in Jordan

Friday, December 09, 2005
By James Phillips
ARCHIVE
•Al Qaeda Backfires in Jordan

Terrorist acts generally backfire.

For example, Afghanistan’s Taliban government supported Usama bin Laden until the 9/11 attacks. In the aftermath of those strikes, the American military swiftly overthrew the Taliban with the help of many Afghans who were fed up with its harsh rule.

On Nov. 9, Jordanians were outraged by Al Qaeda’s latest atrocity. On that day, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's “Al Qaeda in Iraq” terrorist network bombed three hotels in Amman, Jordan, killing 57 people. By indiscriminately attacking fellow Muslims, Al Qaeda may have stripped the sheen from its image, lessening the appeal of extremism among younger Muslims, at least in Jordan.

Zarqawi’s organization has roots in Jordan, but it recruited four Iraqi suicide bombers — including a husband-and-wife team — to execute the attacks, perhaps to preserve its Jordanian members for future attacks inside that country. The woman’s bomb failed to explode, and she was later captured.

The operational shortcomings of the bombings were accompanied by political miscalculations. Many Jordanians have long supported suicide bombings against Israel and against U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq. Zarqawi was a local hero to Jordanian Islamic militants. Even some Jordanians who did not share his radical ideology were impressed by his high profile-attacks inside Iraq.

(Story continues below)

ADVERTISEMENTSAdvertise Here


But the Amman bombings, which slaughtered dozens of Jordanian men, women and children who were celebrating a wedding, outraged Jordanians of all stripes. Jordan’s Palestinian majority, which might have reacted with schadenfreude toward an attack that targeted King Abdullah’s government (resented since its 1994 peace treaty with Israel) were shocked by the deaths of the many Palestinians who perished in the bombings. For several days after the bombings, Jordanians took to the streets to participate in large demonstrations, shouting, “Burn in hell, al-Zarqawi.”

The deliberate targeting of Jordanian Muslims reportedly dismayed even Al Qaeda supporters in Iraq. A relative of one of the bombers complained to a Washington Post reporter, “We were shocked when we saw on TV the number of civilians killed in the operation because we thought the killed would be Americans and Jews, but they were Muslims, regretfully.”

Several radical Islamic websites that normally celebrate Al Qaeda’s terrorist attacks are now replete with criticism of the indiscriminate slaughter of innocent Muslims. This criticism echoes the gentle reproach of Zarqawi’s brutal tactics delivered in a July 2005 letter to Zarqawi from Ayman al-Zawahiri, Usama bin Laden’s chief lieutenant. Zawahiri cautioned Zarqawi that popular support is important for realizing Al Qaeda’s long-term goals and that “more than half of this battle is taking place in the battlefield of the media.”

Zarqawi clearly has disregarded Zawahiri’s advice. Like many of the “Afghan Arabs” who returned from the jihad in Afghanistan in the early 1990s and unsuccessfully tried to import the jihad into their home countries, Zarqawi’s bloodthirsty zeal, when inflicted on fellow Muslims, has undermined the appeal of his revolutionary ideology. Similarly overzealous mistakes triggered a popular backlash that led to the defeat of radical Islamic movements in Egypt and Algeria in the 1990s.

This isn’t the first time Zarqawi has attempted to attack a site in his home country. He grew up in a suburb of the Jordanian city of Zarqa as Ahmad Fadhil Nazzar Khalaylah and took the nom de guerre Zarqawi, “the man from Zarqa.” He was involved in the failed millennium bombing plot in 1999 (which targeted the same Radisson hotel bombed this month).

In October 2002, Zarqawi’s group murdered American diplomat Laurence Foley in Amman. In April 2004, Jordanian authorities averted Zarqawi’s planned bombing of Jordan’s intelligence headquarters and other buildings. That attack reportedly also would have included the use of poisonous chemicals, one of Zarqawi’s specialties.

In 2001, he fled Afghanistan through Iran, apparently with the cooperation of the Iranian government, and set up operations in Iraq with the suspected support of Saddam Hussein’s regime. In 2004, Zarqawi merged his group with bin Laden’s and was named the leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq. Although he still has ideological differences with bin Laden, including a fierce hostility to Shiites that has led his group to bomb Shiite mosques in Iraq, Zarqawi now ranks second only to bin Laden in the eyes of many Sunni Islamic extremists.

Zarqawi has developed a strong network among Arab Muslims living in Europe, particularly in Germany, Britain, Italy, France and Spain. This network may have been involved in the May 2003 bombings in Casablanca, Morocco, and the November 2003 bombings in Istanbul, Turkey. Zarqawi’s followers, many of whom hold European Union passports, pose a growing threat to the United States.

If he can establish a sanctuary in Iraq, Zarqawi’s branch of Al Qaeda will become a much bigger threat. That’s why it’s so important to help the Iraqi government defeat terrorists that threaten it, its neighbors and even the United States.

The only silver lining in the dark cloud of Al Qaeda’s Nov. 9 bombing is that it has awakened Jordanians and possibly a few other Muslims about the urgent need to defeat al Qaeda.

James Phillips is a research fellow in Middle Eastern studies in the Davis Institute for International Studies at The Heritage Foundation.


E-MAIL STORY PRINTER FRIENDLY FOXFAN CENTRAL

SEARCH

FOX SPORTS | MAKE FOXNEWS.COM YOUR HOME PAGE | FOX AROUND THE WORLD
FOX NEWS SHOP | E-MAIL US | UPGRADE CENTRAL | FAQs
Click here for FOX News RSS Feeds

Advertise on FOX News Channel, FOXNews.com and FOX News Radio
Jobs at FOX News Channel.

1) So?

2) You do realise that Fox news is INCREDIBLY biased. So, it's not always a very acurate source for news. Just saying.

3) I thought we were tryong to get back on topic.

 

[The Question]

Sigh. First of all if you can't understand the war with al-qaeda/taliban, please refrain from ever referring to yourself as centrist. I will sum it up for you though, Al-qaeda attacks us on 9/11. 3,000 Americans die. Al-qaeda is based in Afghanistan. Taliban rules Afghanistan and is in cahoots/harboring with Al-qaeda, other Islamic radical groups, and worldwide heroin/opium production. They are the bad guys. We overthrow the Taliban and kill or capture 2/3rds of Al-qaeda's infrastructure.

Now how exactly was it unjustified?

You're right. Really, what I meant was that I don't think it was handeled properly. I wasn't trying to say it was completely unjustified.

But, I must say, if you had said that in the first place, that would have been a better arguement than calling me a god damn moron.

 

[The Question]

The mean ol' U.S. forced its will on those helpless little terrorists....

I never said that. What I was trying to say was that I thought that the Afganistan thing was not handeled properly and we foucused too much on the taliban than Al Quida themselves.

 

[The Question]

Seriously, can we just drop this and get back on topic? This is starting to get rather tedious. We're just going around in circles.

 

[CAPT. MARVEL]

You're right. Really, what I meant was that I don't think it was handeled properly. I wasn't trying to say it was completely unjustified.

But, I must say, if you had said that in the first place, that would have been a better arguement than calling me a god damn moron.

You know what? I agree on both counts(the handling of the operation and I was out of line with my comments). I am seriously sorry about the name-calling.

 

[The Question]

It's alright. It's just, I happen tp beleive that in a debate one must keep from resorting to condacending to your oponent. It's just unnecesairy and makes the debate turn into something ugly.

 

[Wolverazio]

It has nothing to do with glorifying Japan of being biased. I was simply stating a fact. The U.S. IS the only country in history to actually use nuclear weapons outside of tests.

And the argument exists that it is because after seeing the terror they inflicted, no other government (US included) would dare use them again and just use them as a deterrent.

It's all a matter of how you spin it. In that case, it could be viewed as a good thing (after all, imagine if we had never used nukes until they were at current levels...a nation would no longer exist potentially).

 

[The Question]

That's a pretty good arguement, actually. But then, sadly, governments rarely learn from the past.

 

[Cyclops]

I think it's time this thread be closed or something. It's so far off-topic...

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I think it's time this thread be closed or something. It's so far off-topic...

or you could bring us back on topic instead...like making a theory about the next issue

 

[Wolverazio]

Okay, so someone help me.

Last page...who are all the villains we're seeing?

I know Loki and Crimson Dynamo, obviously.

Man who stole the thunder, unknown (I imagine).

Is the large one Abomination? (as many have guessed).

And what about demon head and the near all white ones?

Or don't we know?