Official The Ultimates Thread

[lceman]

i was thinken that about black widow double crossing becuse of those sketches too, but then i realized that that could just be her for funor her as the enemy...still possible though

 

[celldog]

For some reason......I'm starting to doubt that Black Widow is the traitor.....maybe she is going to double cross the new alliance........I mean Joe Mad did do Black Widow sketches for Ultimates 3....maybe Tony is the traitor??????

You're kidding right????? Tell me you're joking!!! What are you talking about?? Maybe she's not the traitor???

How many innocent butlers does she have to shoot thru the head???

She didn't even want react to the commotion outside.

She was looking at her friggin' watch while they were bonin'!! She knew the time getting close.


She killed Hawkeye's family...not Cap. That's why he knew the face of the killer. It was her. Loki mystically doped those video feeds to set up Cap.

 

[celldog]

I want to see Capt America kick some major butt!!

 

[Ratcrawler]

Randomly Listed Opinions

-I find it cute how Black Widow has sPider-Web underwear.

-I guess Thor really is a god and not just some nutcase.

-Isn't Red Skull supposed to be in this?

-Has Giant Man joined up with these bad guys?

-Have these villains been employed by their governments or are they just doing this by themselves?

-What's with the Darth Maul lightsabre?

-Thought the giant robots looked stupid.

-Can anybody give me a brief synopsis & rundown of the new guys? I know Abomination and Loki. That's about it.

 

[gildea]

celldog not wanting to get into political debate but i have a question for you (i assume you'd class yourself as conservative).

Did you find issue 9 of the ultimates 'too liberal'?

 

[GoldenAgeHero]

I think it's the Arabian Knight (althou PCified up the wazoo). AK carried a sword (the red guy has a lightsaber), and people have said that the red guy looks like he could be middle eastern.




Dude. Think about it. America has invaded two countries in the past five years, destroyd their governments, and turned them into our own versions of them. Yes, they had ******* leaders. But who are we to just barge into other countries and tell them what's best? Also, we've pretty much made ourselves in charge of the U.N., and when they do tell us not to do something we tell them to piss of and we do it anyway.

As for "they're the ones who blow up their own kids", the U.S. has sent 18 year old kids in the middle east to die for oil.

Now, I'm not trying to be a "liberal leftist", as you put it (I tend to consider myself a centrist), but there is some serious bull**** going on with our government right now. It really wouldn't surprise me if other countries saw America as the new roman empire.

And the "they're the ones who blow up their own kids" comment wasn't cool. Try to be a little more sensative.

i think the government had the right to invade afghanistan. iraq is a different story.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

For some reason......I'm starting to doubt that Black Widow is the traitor.....maybe she is going to double cross the new alliance........I mean Joe Mad did do Black Widow sketches for Ultimates 3....maybe Tony is the traitor??????

Joe Mad probably did those just to release something...besides she could be a villian

 

[The Question]

It's funny. They need Cap more than ever now.


But here we have Iran spouting off "Wipe the Nation of Israel from the map" and we wonder why we don't want them to have a nuclear program??? Their president just said that he doesn't believe the holocaust happened. The Ultimates disarmed a rogue Arab state. I'm cool with that.

We are currently trying "diplomacy" to convince them not to do it. Let's see if "sweet talk" works.

We have more nukes than anyone else. What right do we have to tell others not to use them?




Sorry. I did it again. I know. But I just couldn't help it.

 

[The Question]

Sorry Cyke. But Deepcut said that the world had a reason to fear the Ultimates. I disagree. Rogue nations and despots had a reason to fear the Ultimates. They took nukes from a rogue Arab country. Not from Russia or France etc...

What exactly constitutes a "rouge nation"? One we don't agree with? Russia and France probably fear America because they think America might start messing with them next.

 

[celldog]

celldog not wanting to get into political debate but i have a question for you (i assume you'd class yourself as conservative).

Did you find issue 9 of the ultimates 'too liberal'?

"sigh" Here we go again. Just when I think I'm out....they pull me back in!


Yeah...there's a very noticable liberal spin.

 

[The Question]

Yeah, I guess the book is somewhat liberal. But then, I really don't consider myself liberal and I agree with a good chunk of what Millar is trying to get across. Really, I think what he's trying to say here is that the United States government goes too far sometimes, and we piss alot of other nations of in doing so.

 

[celldog]

We have more nukes than anyone else. What right do we have to tell others not to use them?


Yeah....and when was the last time we used them?? We have them so we won't have to use them!! Deterent??? You have heard of that right??

Iran has a religion at it's core that scares the heck out of most of the world. They are already threatening Israel!! Why do you think the U.N. is now paying attention. In their minds The A-bomb will take them to heaven if used against the infidel. We cannot allow a person with that mentality & motivation to actually have the bomb. They will not use it for deterent. They will flat out use it!!


Sorry. I did it again. I know. But I just couldn't help it.

Me too. You pulled me off the wagon.

 

[celldog]

Yeah, I guess the book is somewhat liberal. But then, I really don't consider myself liberal and I agree with a good chunk of what Millar is trying to get across. Really, I think what he's trying to say here is that the United States government goes too far sometimes, and we piss alot of other nations of in doing so.

If I made every decision in my life based on whether I pissed people off, I'd have made some really bad choices in my life. The public cannot be the barometer of what is right and wrong.

Common decency....freedom....liberty....things things are for every man. People can learn live under a despot. Women can live under an abusive husband for years. But that's not how they are truly wired. They can suppress that. But their true urge is to be free. Sadly...freedom comes at a heavy price because evil men will not give up their grip.

You like steak??? You like hot dogs?? I love that stuff. But I don't like to see how it's made. I want it at the grocer.....neatly wrapped and clean. That's the way we are with freedom.....we like it conveniently wrapped and clean....we don't have the stomach to see how it's truly made. ....what it takes to keep evil men off the backs our country and others.

 

[deemar325]

What exactly constitutes a "rouge nation"? One we don't agree with? Russia and France probably fear America because they think America might start messing with them next.

I can't see that happening with France, they are two-faced bigots but, our bonds are still to close.

 

[celldog]

What exactly constitutes a "rouge nation"? One we don't agree with? Russia and France probably fear America because they think America might start messing with them next.

France is just one phone call away from calling us over to help them with their riots! They aren't afraid of us. They're jealous of us.


Russia? They still have that nuke arsenal. So do we. So I don't think anybody's be pushing any buttons.

 

[The Question]

Yeah....and when was the last time we used them?? We have them so we won't have to use them!! Deterent??? You have heard of that right??

Iran has a religion at it's core that scares the heck out of most of the world. They are already threatening Israel!! Why do you think the U.N. is now paying attention. In their minds The A-bomb will take them to heaven if used against the infidel. We cannot allow a person with that mentality & motivation to actually have the bomb. They will not use it for deterent. They will flat out use it!!

1) When was the last time the Iraqis used them? Or Iran? Or any other country in the world? Never. Hell, in the history of the world, the United States is the only country to ever use nuclear explosives in a military situation.

2) "Iran has a religion at it's core that scares the heck out of most of the world." Are you saying there's something wrong with Islam? I know Islamic people, and they're nothing like the nutjobs you see on TV. Basing yout entire veiw of Islam on those freaks with machin guns yelling "DEATH TO THE INFADELS" is exactly like an Islamic person basing everything they know about Christianity on the KKK.

3) Another point with the religious base thing. Currently, the President is basing alot of his descisions on a religion that was responsible for the Spanish Inquesition, condoned the slave trade, and completely ignored the holocaust. Now, I'm not saying Christianity is bad, but if someone were to base their perceptions of Christianity by the acts commited by the extremests, it would look pretty damn bad.

2) Iran will not "flat put use it". Wanna know why? Because not all people in Iran want to kill themselves ina holy war. They'd have to be completely off their gourds to start a nuclear war. And trust me, most politics aren't about morals or spirituality. They're about money. If Iran started a nuclear war and got themselves blown off the face of the map, they would not profit from that at all.

 

[The Question]

If I made every decision in my life based on whether I pissed people off, I'd have made some really bad choices in my life. The public cannot be the barometer of what is right and wrong.

Common decency....freedom....liberty....things things are for every man. People can learn live under a despot. Women can live under an abusive husband for years. But that's not how they are truly wired. They can suppress that. But their true urge is to be free. Sadly...freedom comes at a heavy price because evil men will not give up their grip.

You like steak??? You like hot dogs?? I love that stuff. But I don't like to see how it's made. I want it at the grocer.....neatly wrapped and clean. That's the way we are with freedom.....we like it conveniently wrapped and clean....we don't have the stomach to see how it's truly made. ....what it takes to keep evil men off the backs our country and others.

Yes, but we can't force it upon people. We can't go into other countries and force change. We can't police the world. It's not our job. It's not anyone's job. And once someone makes it their job, they start down a very dark path.

Think of it this way:

"Hey, we liberated Iraq. But there are some countries that have dictators. Know what? Let;s go liberate then too! Wow, there are alot of dictatorships in the world. Well, might as well liberate them all. Damn, this is costing us alot of manpower. I guess we better put in the draft. Sure, people will protest because we're risking the lives of teenagers even though the country is in absolutely no danger, but eh, who cares? Wow, this is really hard. You know what? Instead of taking for ****ing ever to help the opther countries build their own governments, we should just make them apart of the U.S. Now, since they're apart of the U.S., let's impose the patriot act on them so that if we suspect any of them of being insurgents, we can hold them without just cause!"

And thus, the American Empire is born.


Now, This will probably not happen. It's a bit extreme. But it's a definate possibility if we're hell bent on "liberating" the whole world.

Really, liberating other countries would be fine. If we were infalible. Which we're not. The united states government has done horrible things to it's citizens in the past. We put the Japanese in camps during WWII. We preformed dangerous medical tests on black soldiers. We sprayed American towns with biological agents to see what would happen.

And really, ever ask why we haven't tried to "liberate" all the other dictatorships? Because government don't care about morality. They care about money and guns. The Iraq war was never abput morality. It was about money and the fact that the Bush family has a personal vendetta against Sadam.

 

[CAPT. MARVEL]

Question: Are you really trying to make the arguement that attacking Afghanistan and overthrowing the Taliban was a bad idea? If so you are a god da mn moron. k thanks bye.


Anyways, on to the Ultimates! I truly doubt the big monster guy is Abomination because there is a big monster guy on the team in 616 who is not the Abomination(forget his name). Ultimate Widow being the traitor was interesting, but to be honest, I am glad because she is the only character I wouldnt miss.

 

[The Question]

Question: Are you really trying to make the arguement that attacking Afghanistan and overthrowing the Taliban was a bad idea? If so you are a god da mn moron. k thanks bye.

Wow. And such a well supported arguement.

 

[celldog]

1) When was the last time the Iraqis used them? Or Iran? Or any other country in the world? Never. Hell, in the history of the world, the United States is the only country to ever use nuclear explosives in a military situation.

[B]First of all they don't have the bomb. That's one of the reasons we whn in to Iraq. To make sure that mad man never does. Iran is trying to develop one. That's why even your beloved U.N. is nervous! And yes we used it! One time. It was necessary and it ended a war we didn't start. It saved more American lives. Lessons were learned since then. No one has used it. How many conflicts has this country been involved in since then?? Not a nuke used. It is only there as a deterent and if needed a retaliatory on someone fires on us. Like Superman, we continue to hold back our full power. We try other ways[/B].


2) "Iran has a religion at it's core that scares the heck out of most of the world." Are you saying there's something wrong with Islam? I know Islamic people, and they're nothing like the nutjobs you see on TV. Basing yout entire veiw of Islam on those freaks with machin guns yelling "DEATH TO THE INFADELS" is exactly like an Islamic person basing everything they know about Christianity on the KKK.


You can keep those rose colored glasses on if you like. Be P.C. Not me....
Your Muslim friends worship in a religion that guarantees a place in heaven if your committ jihad!! Other wise they don't know if Allah will accept them into heaven when they just die in a normal way. Period.... I didn't write that. Muhammad did. Now if your friends choose not to do that fine. Thank God!Muhammad was a conqueror and pillager and treated women as chattel ........he is their founder and example. He thought it was he mission to make the infidel submitt to Allah by force!!
Are they not suppose to follow the example of their founder?? And if they don't follow in his footsteps, are they being true to his teachings??

Jesus on the other hand, was not a conquerer. He healed the sick. He was a teacher. He treated women with respect and and taught about the love of God. He treated all people as equals. Did the KKK follow this example?? So are they truly Christians?? Of course not. Just because they carried crosses, doesn't validate their faith any more than an auto mechanic wearing a lab coat makes him a scientist.


And if you have to go all the way back to the Crusades and Inquistions to find a horrible stain on the church, we're doing pretty good. I can pull out the paper from last week and find more Islamo fascist agression.



3) Another point with the religious base thing. Currently, the President is basing alot of his descisions on a religion that was responsible for the Spanish Inquesition, condoned the slave trade, and completely ignored the holocaust. Now, I'm not saying Christianity is bad, but if someone were to base their perceptions of Christianity by the acts commited by the extremests, it would look pretty damn bad.


At least the church had at it's base the teachings of Jesus, that it finally went back to.....that it finally caught back up with. If you have a good foundation, you can still have a chance to right the ship if it goes astray. If Islam truly goes to it's core it will find Muhammad's example of "Conquer the Infidel". We are guaranteed continued violence. Islamic purists don't believe in religious tolerance. Tolerance in the since that "Hey....you do your thing and I won't bother you." No ...Christian churches are blown up. Budhist shrines are attacked..... this happens all over the world.



2) Iran will not "flat put use it". Wanna know why? Because not all people in Iran want to kill themselves ina holy war. They'd have to be completely off their gourds to start a nuclear war. And trust me, most politics aren't about morals or spirituality. They're about money. If Iran started a nuclear war and got themselves blown off the face of the map, they would not profit from that at all.

Those Iranians don't have a say-so!! Plus there are thousands of them shouting death to Israel!! So it's not the Iranian President feeling this way.
You have me out of your gourd to suicide bomb too!! But they do it!! Why?? Because Islam glorifies this kind of death!!
That's why the U.N. is concerned!!

 

[The Question]

[B]First of all they don't have the bomb. That's one of the reasons we whn in to Iraq. To make sure that mad man never does. Iran is trying to develop one. That's why even your beloved U.N. is nervous! And yes we used it! One time. It was necessary and it ended a war we didn't start. It saved more American lives. Lessons were learned since then. No one has used it. How many conflicts has this country been involved in since then?? Not a nuke used. It is only there as a deterent and if needed a retaliatory on someone fires on us. Like Superman, we continue to hold back our full power. We try other ways[/b].

So, you're saying that we invaded a country to prevent them from having something we have in abundance.

You can keep those rose colored glasses on if you like. Be P.C. Not me....
Your Muslim friends worship in a religion that guarantees a place in heaven if your committ jihad!! Other wise they don't know if Allah will accept them into heaven when they just die in a normal way. Period.... I didn't write that. Muhammad did. Now if your friends choose not to do that fine. Thank God!Muhammad was a conqueror and pillager and treated women as chattel ........he is their founder and example. He thought it was he mission to make the infidel submitt to Allah by force!!
Are they not suppose to follow the example of their founder?? And if they don't follow in his footsteps, are they being true to his teachings??

Jesus on the other hand, was not a conquerer. He healed the sick. He was a teacher. He treated women with respect and and taught about the love of God. He treated all people as equals. Did the KKK follow this example?? So are they truly Christians?? Of course not. Just because they carried crosses, doesn't validate their faith any more than an auto mechanic wearing a lab coat makes him a scientist.


And if you have to go all the way back to the Crusades and Inquistions to find a horrible stain on the church, we're doing pretty good. I can pull out the paper from last week and find more Islamo fascist agression.

Yeah. And Islam also considers itself an extention of Christianity and Judeism. They actually consoder Jesus to have been a wise man. Also, Jesus never intened to form Christianity. That happened about 40 years after he died. The church has commited horrible acts, and even today has it's own extremests like Pat Robertson. Yes, he doesn't commit suicide bombings, but he does want to take away people's rights and set the country back over 100 years. Also, you say that the KKK aren't truely Christians. Well, the Muslim extremests who suicide bomb kindergardens aren't truely Muslim either. Most Muslims don't asociate themselves with those extremest wack jobs, just like most Christians don't asociate themselves with the KKK.

At least the church had at it's base the teachings of Jesus, that it finally went back to.....that it finally caught back up with. If you have a good foundation, you can still have a chance to right the ship if it goes astray. If Islam truly goes to it's core it will find Muhammad's example of "Conquer the Infidel". We are guaranteed continued violence. Islamic purists don't believe in religious tolerance. Tolerance in the since that "Hey....you do your thing and I won't bother you." No ...Christian churches are blown up. Budhist shrines are attacked..... this happens all over the world.

The Christians led crusades to "conquer the infadels" for decades. They tried to "convert the heathens" and wiped out entire cultures. And you know what, Islam, like I said earlyer, recognizes Jesus and is considered to be an extention of Christianity and Judeism.

Those Iranians don't have a say-so!! Plus there are thousands of them shouting death to Israel!! So it's not the Iranian President feeling this way.
You have me out of your gourd to suicide bomb too!! But they do it!! Why?? Because Islam glorifies this kind of death!!
That's why the U.N. is concerned!!

Most Muslims don't do that. It's only the extremests who do that. You act as if every Muslim on the planet wants to suicide bomb you. Dude, I think that PC stuff does go too far some times, but the reason it exists in the first place is because of people saying stuff like this.

 

[deemar325]

1) When was the last time the Iraqis used them? Or Iran? Or any other country in the world? Never. Hell, in the history of the world, the United States is the only country to ever use nuclear explosives in a military situation.

They would use them.

2) "Iran has a religion at it's core that scares the heck out of most of the world." Are you saying there's something wrong with Islam? I know Islamic people, and they're nothing like the nutjobs you see on TV. Basing yout entire veiw of Islam on those freaks with machin guns yelling "DEATH TO THE INFADELS" is exactly like an Islamic person basing everything they know about Christianity on the KKK.

True, but yeah theres a ****e load wrong with Islam. I know muslims in a every day sense both in Iraq and at home.

3) Another point with the religious base thing. Currently, the President is basing alot of his descisions on a religion that was responsible for the Spanish Inquesition, condoned the slave trade, and completely ignored the holocaust. Now, I'm not saying Christianity is bad, but if someone were to base their perceptions of Christianity by the acts commited by the extremests, it would look pretty damn bad.

2) Iran will not "flat put use it". Wanna know why? Because not all people in Iran want to kill themselves ina holy war. They'd have to be completely off their gourds to start a nuclear war. And trust me, most politics aren't about morals or spirituality. They're about money. If Iran started a nuclear war and got themselves blown off the face of the map, they would not profit from that at all.

 

[celldog]

Yes, but we can't force it upon people. We can't go into other countries and force change. We can't police the world. It's not our job. It's not anyone's job. And once someone makes it their job, they start down a very dark path.


Does she look forced?? http://www.pbase.com/kburch/image/34994778

Think this Iraqi minds?

http://www.pbase.com/kburch/image/37518484



Think of it this way:

"Hey, we liberated Iraq. But there are some countries that have dictators. Know what? Let;s go liberate then too! Wow, there are alot of dictatorships in the world. Well, might as well liberate them all. Damn, this is costing us alot of manpower.


We get this same lame argument when you got nothing else. As much as we would to liberate the world, we can only do what can. According to all intel Iraq was a threat to us and violated 14 U.N. resolutions. As a result they ended up in the cross hairs. A by-product of this is freedom for those people. That is not a bad thing.


I guess we better put in the draft. Sure, people will protest because we're risking the lives of teenagers even though the country is in absolutely no danger, but eh, who cares? Wow, this is really hard. You know what? Instead of taking for ****ing ever to help the opther countries build their own governments, we should just make them apart of the U.S. Now, since they're apart of the U.S., let's impose the patriot act on them so that if we suspect any of them of being insurgents, we can hold them without just cause!"

And thus, the American Empire is born.


Noooooooo!!!!!!!


Now, This will probably not happen. It's a bit extreme. But it's a definate possibility if we're hell bent on "liberating" the whole world.


Read the above post.



Really, liberating other countries would be fine. If we were infalible. Which we're not. The united states government has done horrible things to it's citizens in the past. We put the Japanese in camps during WWII. We preformed dangerous medical tests on black soldiers. We sprayed American towns with biological agents to see what would happen.


Yep. The USA has it's problems and has blood on it's own hands. But it goes back to the foundation thing I talked about. It took a while. But we finally caught up with what our Constitution declared. Even the writers of this document didn't fully follow it. But it was none the less an excellent foundation. This country finally caught up with it's own lofty ideals. Are we perfect?? No. But people who move here from other countries reeeeally get it!! We're just spoiled.



And really, ever ask why we haven't tried to "liberate" all the other dictatorships? Because government don't care about morality. They care about money and guns. The Iraq war was never abput morality. It was about money and the fact that the Bush family has a personal vendetta against Sadam.

There you go again. "America the villain" and a vendetta thing that cannot be proven....only assumed. Question: Do you live here??
Tell me iff these kids care about vendetta??

http://www.pbase.com/kburch/image/35121098
http://www.pbase.com/kburch/image/35120956
http://www.pbase.com/kburch/image/34994708

Just askin'....


Now...can we get back to the Ultimates again??

 

[The Question]

We get this same lame argument when you got nothing else. As much as we would to liberate the world, we can only do what can. According to all intel Iraq was a threat to us and violated 14 U.N. resolutions. As a result they ended up in the cross hairs. A by-product of this is freedom for those people. That is not a bad thing.

But we shouldn't liberate the world. It's not our place. I f we were infalible, I'd be fine with it. But we're not infalible. As a country we make just as many mistakes as anyone else. We don't get to tell other countries wat's best for them unlsess we are completely incapable of making mistakes. And we're not.

Yep. The USA has it's problems and has blood on it's own hands. But it goes back to the foundation thing I talked about. It took a while. But we finally caught up with what our Constitution declared. Even the writers of this document didn't fully follow it. But it was none the less an excellent foundation. This country finally caught up with it's own lofty ideals. Are we perfect?? No. But people who move here from other countries reeeeally get it!! We're just spoiled.

We still make mistakes. And we haven't "caught up" with our foundation. There are still debates to this day about the constituation, and hell, we've violated it at times in the past few decades. We are not infalible. Thus, it is not our place to tell the rest of the world what is best. We charge into places by ourselves and meddle. What we should do is peacefully work with other nations to make the world a better place. Not use force to get the results we want.

There you go again. "America the villain" and a vendetta thing that cannot be proven....only assumed.

I do not think America is the villain. I just don't think it's our place to police the world. And the vendetta thing is a fact. The Bush family hates Saddam.

Question: Do you live here??

Tell me iff these kids care about vendetta??



http://www.pbase.com/kburch/image/35121098

http://www.pbase.com/kburch/image/35120956

http://www.pbase.com/kburch/image/34994708



Just askin'....

Yes. I get it. They're happy. It doesn't change the fact that we have no right to decid what is best for everyone else.

Now...can we get back to the Ultimates again??

Yes. Please. Let's

 

[deemar325]

But we shouldn't liberate the world. It's not our place. I f we were infalible, I'd be fine with it. But we're not infalible. As a country we make just as many mistakes as anyone else. We don't get to tell other countries wat's best for them unlsess we are completely incapable of making mistakes. And we're not.



We still make mistakes. And we haven't "caught up" with our foundation. There are still debates to this day about the constituation, and hell, we've violated it at times in the past few decades. We are not infalible. Thus, it is not our place to tell the rest of the world what is best. We charge into places by ourselves and meddle. What we should do is peacefully work with other nations to make the world a better place. Not use force to get the results we want.




I do not think America is the villain. I just don't think it's our place to police the world. And the vendetta thing is a fact. The Bush family hates Saddam.

I can accept your arguement, good points. I just can't let go of my hang ups, I've seen to much.