One thing that always stood out with PoI was the lack of talk show appearances by the cast, likely due to their really long and intense filming requirements. The total lack of media appearances I think helped contribute to the show not having as much buzz as the other shows on CBS, who seem to send their cast members on lots of talk show appearances. The only appearances I can think of or find by the cast on any of major talk shows was Taraji on Letterman after Carter got killed off, Caviezel on The Talk and Live with Kelly and Michael, Shahi on The Talk and Craig Ferguson, Emerson on Ferguson, and Acker on The Talk. Most of these were during the show's first or second season, with only Taraji and Shahi's appearance occurring during the third season. If you didn't catch these appearances, you'd think the show was off the air.
As much as I loved Season 5, I do wish Amanda Segel ("Relevance", "The Devil's Share", "The Cold War") and David Slack ("Zero Day", "/", "Deus Ex Machina") were still on the writing staff. But... budget cuts, ya know?
Oh, and I wish Lucas O'Connor ("Death Benefit", "Prophets", "6,741) got to write or co-write 5x11 or 5x12 because I would've loved to see him write for Shaw and [BLACKOUT]Machine!Root[/BLACKOUT].
As much as I loved Season 5, I do wish Amanda Segel ("Relevance", "The Devil's Share", "The Cold War") and David Slack ("Zero Day", "/", "Deus Ex Machina") were still on the writing staff. But... budget cuts, ya know?
Oh, and I wish Lucas O'Connor ("Death Benefit", "Prophets", "6,741) got to write or co-write 5x11 or 5x12 because I would've loved to see him write for Shaw and [BLACKOUT]Machine!Root[/BLACKOUT].
I wish anyone else did 5x11, honestly. It had some great material in there, and one of my favourite pieces of dialogue from the machine ([BLACKOUT]"You can't conceive of my grief because you don't experience it like I do, but it's there."[/BLACKOUT]), but...the third last episode of the series, dealing with as big a thing as the fallout from [BLACKOUT]Root's death[/BLACKOUT] and they left it to two brand new to the series writers. I don't think it was a bad episode, just a weird one, and that didn't lessen on my pre-finale rewatch of the season. The first half is good, but the second half is just...off. I can't help but wonder if it could have been better in the hands of writers who had been on the series for a while. It really should have been an episode more like [BLACKOUT]The Devil's Share, considering they have the same placement in relation to an episode with a main cast death[/BLACKOUT] instead of a bit of that sandwiched with a weirdly filler feeling president plotline. As I said, I don't think it's bad, it just wasn't as good as it had the potential to be, I feel.
Yeah, 5x11 definitely sticks out quality wise coming after 5x10 and before 5x12 & 5x13. The writing had extra exposition and seemed a bit "off", but I did like the character moments.
And I rewatched the ending of 3x01. I was like "Whoa..." after seeing it while knowing what he know now. I think I read that Jonah Nolan personally wrote it.
[YT]GiGOWFoa6GE[/YT]
Honestly, I think it's amazing they pulled it off as well as they did. They had ALOT of ground to cover this season. Essentially, they did a really good job last season setting up the table for Samaritan's dominance. The ending to last season basically told us this was an adversary that was near impossible to defeat. And when you set up an adversary that way, as near impossible to defeat, you kinda end up creating the expectation that the victory is going to have to be a difficult one, and that it won't be simple (because if it were simple, it'd be easy, right?). Going into the final season after having set up Samaritan as that kind of adversary...getting to where they did, along with tying up as many other plot lines as they did, in 13 episodes, was impressive.
I was thinking, too, about where the series started out and where it ended. And looking back at everything, I'm thinking there might not have been a good way to have kept Carter onboard. I know how these things wind up with fans, and people making obscene claims about writers because they get upset. But, from a storytelling point of view...I can't figure out a good way that Carter could have fit into the final half of the series and the whole Samaritan saga.
It's a very reductive way of saying it, but Fusco wound being a dumber version of Carter. As smart as Joss was (leaps and bounds smarter than Fusco, obviously) and as good a detective as she was, there's no way they'd have been able to keep her out of the loop as long as they did with him. And Fusco was only digging around the edges of Samaritan, nowhere near uncovering the truth, and he'd already been designated as a possible threat. But, then pulling her out of her life as a single mother and good cop...man, I just don't know how that could have worked well.
Just one of those things, where you realize that this team of storytellers knew what they were doing and the decisions they made had purpose.
[BLACKOUT]Same thing with Root. The notion that POI killed off Root because the writers are homophobic, and hate lesbians and therefore killed her off to add her to the meme of buried fictional lesbians just seems beyond insane to me, especially when looking at how everything was set up. [/BLACKOUT]
^ Some of the claims against the writers are downright laughable IMO. Like I read one over at Tumblr (or maybe Twitter, I can't remember) about how sexist/homophobic the writers are because they
didn't give a happy ending to the female characters and the males got a happy ending.
Erm, what??? The way I see it,
the show killed one male and female lead character doing heroic things (Reese, Root) while the other male and female both got happy endings. Shaw's ending might not be the Italian romantic ending that Finch got but her living and continuing on the job is what her character would consider as a happy ending. Heck, she even got the last scene of the series.
Personally, I don't see these racist/sexist/homophobic claims.
I liked the procedural one number/case per episode part of the series but the latter AI/Samaritan/Root part of it is what elevated the show to higher grounds IMO.
[BLACKOUT]What I find frustrating with that is, overall, I think there is a point to be made there. Problem is that the trope is just too broad to the point where it covers literally any death, and picking this show as an example doesn't quite work, I feel. Usually the issue is it being for shock factor or just to motivate other people or poorly handled or what have you, but in this case, it was the climax to her arc first and foremost. It had after effects on characters, as it should, but that was the primary point of it. Jumping to calling the writers homophobic is just making things up to serve a point that has merit but ends up getting twisted by that kind of reaction. I think there is a point in there, it just ends up getting distorted. Especially from band wagoners who just get the one plot point that happened but don't watch the series and start using it in an attempt to back up their argument. I scroll through tumblr just looking for gifs to use on here, and I recall afterwards there was a lot of "another stray bullet". Well, clearly you didn't actually watch what happened.
Though, I do wish we had gotten a bit more time between Shaw coming back and Root dying. At least a full episode centered on her return instead of it being a C plot. Feels like that was probably a casualty of the suddenly shortened season and Sarah Shahi's more limited schedule.[/BLACKOUT]
^ Some of the claims against the writers are downright laughable IMO. Like I read one over at Tumblr (or maybe Twitter, I can't remember) about how sexist/homophobic the writers are because they
didn't give a happy ending to the female characters and the males got a happy ending.
Erm, what??? The way I see it,
the show killed one male and female lead character doing heroic things (Reese, Root) while the other male and female both got happy endings. Shaw's ending might not be the Italian romantic ending that Finch got but her living and continuing on the job is what her character would consider as a happy ending. Heck, she even got the last scene of the series.
Personally, I don't see these racist/sexist/homophobic claims.
I liked the procedural one number/cast per episode part of the series but the latter AI/Samaritan/Root part of it is what elevated the show to higher grounds IMO.
[BLACKOUT]For me...looking at Shaw, that's kind of a happy ending for her. She's not a normal person. It's not in her to run away, and live in peace on some beach somewhere. Aside from her condition, she's just not like that. Her getting to shoot and hurt people for a good purpose, and saving lives, is all she really wanted. It's why she felt so strongly about Northern Lights while she worked for the government. It's also why Reese's fate made so much sense. Jessica might have been the only path to happiness for him. Carter could have been, maybe, but she was on the team so the nature of their romance would have been as two soldiers during this war. Fusco is Fusco. Just making it out alive is a ****ing happy ending for that guy. Root got her happy ending, I think. She transcended death and became closer to the god she worshiped than anyone will ever get by essentially unifying and becoming one with the Machine. Her attraction and love for Shaw was real, but her love and faith in her religion (in the form of this AI) was even more important to her. I think she'd be more than satisfied knowing how it went down.
The only one who could have an exit and could live a life that could be considered a happy ending was Finch. Namely, because he wasn't a trained killer with a trail of dead bodies behind him. And, because he'd sorta lived that happy life before. Through the flashbacks, we got to see the years when he was building and teaching the Machine, he was living the dream with Grace. And while Jessica and Carter are gone, Reese couldn't have that. But, Grace was still alive and well. [/BLACKOUT]
[BLACKOUT]What I find frustrating with that is, overall, I think there is a point to be made there. Problem is that the trope is just too broad to the point where it covers literally any death, and picking this show as an example doesn't quite work, I feel. Usually the issue is it being for shock factor or just to motivate other people or poorly handled or what have you, but in this case, it was the climax to her arc first and foremost. It had after effects on characters, as it should, but that was the primary point of it. Jumping to calling the writers homophobic is just making things up to serve a point that has merit but ends up getting twisted by that kind of reaction. I think there is a point in there, it just ends up getting distorted. Especially from band wagoners who just get the one plot point that happened but don't watch the series and start using it in an attempt to back up their argument. I scroll through tumblr just looking for gifs to use on here, and I recall afterwards there was a lot of "another stray bullet". Well, clearly you didn't actually watch what happened.
Though, I do wish we had gotten a bit more time between Shaw coming back and Root dying. At least a full episode centered on her return instead of it being a C plot. Feels like that was probably a casualty of the suddenly shortened season and Sarah Shahi's more limited schedule.[/BLACKOUT]
[BLACKOUT]I think there's merit in the critique. The problem overall with it is that it being a meme, and something tossed around, is that it's used to generalize and not consider context. I have the same issue with other media, as well, and how social media mobs form over misplaced anger or projected slights that aren't true in some cases. And like you said, people jumping on without knowing a thing. Anyone claiming Root's death was another stray bullet...clearly doesn't know ****. And I know people claim that storytellers and writers don't operate in a vacuum, which is true. But, they have context and it matters. What bothers me is that using that meme on Root just dilutes the argument and winds up making the entire thing less valid and seem disingenuous.
And I think you're right. I think even a full 22 episode run (not even another season) would have meant an entire Shaw/Root relationship episode. Though, I think the simulation Shaw had gave us an idea of the fun they probably had off-screen in the story. But, I think you're right. If they'd had more time, I think we would have gotten more of them before going full steam into the finale. [/BLACKOUT]
[BLACKOUT]anyone have theories on what John's real last name might have been? They showed his headstone, and gave us the first few letters before cutting away.[/BLACKOUT]
[BLACKOUT]What I find frustrating with that is, overall, I think there is a point to be made there. Problem is that the trope is just too broad to the point where it covers literally any death, and picking this show as an example doesn't quite work, I feel. Usually the issue is it being for shock factor or just to motivate other people or poorly handled or what have you, but in this case, it was the climax to her arc first and foremost. It had after effects on characters, as it should, but that was the primary point of it. Jumping to calling the writers homophobic is just making things up to serve a point that has merit but ends up getting twisted by that kind of reaction. I think there is a point in there, it just ends up getting distorted. Especially from band wagoners who just get the one plot point that happened but don't watch the series and start using it in an attempt to back up their argument. I scroll through tumblr just looking for gifs to use on here, and I recall afterwards there was a lot of "another stray bullet". Well, clearly you didn't actually watch what happened.
Though, I do wish we had gotten a bit more time between Shaw coming back and Root dying. At least a full episode centered on her return instead of it being a C plot. Feels like that was probably a casualty of the suddenly shortened season and Sarah Shahi's more limited schedule.[/BLACKOUT]
Oh god, the band wagoners. I've always wanted more people to watch the show, but there is a ridiculous amount of hate where I wish it was still a bit under the radar. I know closed caption transcripts for the last 3 episodes leaked right after 5x10 and these kids spoiled everything on social media. Luckily, I stayed away. They're not real fans.
I do wish Root and Shaw had more time together. Even Jonah Nolan wishes so. But I believe it was because network interference, cancellation, and Sarah Shahi's availability where they had to wrap it up and enter the endgame arc. I know people loved Root & Shaw (I do too! They're my favorite characters.), but they laid the groundwork for these things to happen seasons ago, where I can't be mad. I'm totally bummed because I love Root, but it makes sense to me where Nolan took it. The Machine had to fully become a person and a god. What better way than Root, The Machine #1 believer? She takes her image and personality. It's sad, but it makes sense.
Root & Shaw had the most pure relationship on the show. Reese would never be completely happy with Jessica because he needs to save people. Harold lied to Grace about who he is. But Root & Shaw loved each other for who they were: "What is love, if not being seen?"
The showrunners never lied to anyone. They never promised happy endings. They'd always say, "Not that kind of show."
Well...to be fair, didn't Root try to kill Shaw when they first met? Can't remember if she almost killed her, but there was almost some torture involved. Though, that could just count as foreplay if you think about it.
I think for Reese, the turning point in his life was getting on that plane. When Jessica practically begged him to stay and get back with her, and he turned his back on her to enter the shadows, he seemed to condemn himself to a dark path. It always seemed to me that part of Reese's need to save people was one part wanting serve (it's why re-enlisted after 9/11) and one part trying absolve his soul for all the blood on his hands from working as a government hitman. I think if he hadn't gotten on that plane, he could have let some things go and been happy.
Finch...has been on the run since he was a teenager, right? Man, Nolan's right. These aren't the nicest people to roll around with.
Well...to be fair, didn't Root try to kill Shaw when they first met? Can't remember if she almost killed her, but there was almost some torture involved. Though, that could just count as foreplay if you think about it.
While I thought the Shoot relationship was fine and well-written, I think the resulting Shoot shippers among the viewers are really a bunch of crazy, delusional people. It's crazy how loud and vocal they were and how miserable they made other long-time fans of the show with their narrow focus on just the relationship and not the larger overall story. I was watching a couple of the cast's panels from various ComicCons and started noticing the fans' questions go from all about the overall story and AI/security state to asking mainly about the Shoot relationship, most of which seemed to come from the female audience members.
And I was just on Tumblr and saw another post about [BLACKOUT]a stray bullet. NO. ROOT EXERCISED FREE WILL (A CONCEPT THIS SHOW HAS TALKED ABOUT A FEW TIMES) AND TOOK A BULLET FOR HER BEST FRIEND![/BLACKOUT]
Same. It's interesting to hear them say the Samaritan arc was going to end this season no matter what happened with the series. Samaritan was so big and endgame-like, that I can't imagine anything else to top it. I'd love to know.
That's very interesting. I thought Samaritan might have been an adversary for atleast another two seasons. There were things they were setting up, like the neural implants and even the idea of possible mind control and brainwashing. I got the sense that it would get to a point that even once Samaritan had been defeated, that it would have set the ball rolling on other things. There was some human engineering going, and social and economical experiments it was running on people that it had to wind up having a cause and affect. But, it's interesting to hear that no matter what this would have been Samaritan's final season.
It's driving me crazy, wondering what their post-Samaritan plans could have been.
Season 3 -- EPIC. Just keeps building until Radiohead's "Exit Music (For a Film)" starts playing. The first half has some mediocrity, but even those have some killer scenes (Root in the loony bin).
Season 4 -- First half is fantastic, but it dips in quality and stalls out after "MIA" until it picks ups in the last few episodes. The Brotherhood arc fell flat because it seemed like they (now this is just a guess) set up Dominic to be an Elias type character for Shaw, but Sarah Shahi was pregnant so they had to rewrite some things.
Season 5 -- Consistent, even if I had a few problems with it: some things were rushed and I think it could've used a few more episodes. "BSOD", "SNAFU, "6741", "QSO", "The Day the World Went Away", ".exe", and "return 0" are all fantastic episodes. The acting, writing, and directing were top notch in those. I also loved seeing Reese and Root's friendship.
Season 2 -- Fun. Introduces new character dynamics and builds the world what we see in the next seasons. "Relevance" is one my favorite episodes.
Season 1 -- It's good. It does character development and lays the groundwork for what's to come. It's kinda hard to rewatch because it's so Numbers heavy at times and not seeing Root & Shaw is so weird, but there are some GREAT episodes like the last three.
I'm personally torn between 3 and 4 as my favourite. Season 3 feels more consistent overall, has Vigilance (which I absolutely love) and doesn't have the 4 episode slowdown I feel season 4 has, however overall I prefer the direction season 4 takes a bit more and running the ground and sci fi plots concurrently.
5's my third as, though it has two of my top 3 episodes and 4 others I hold in particularly high esteem as well as some of my favourite ideas and plotlines of the series, I feel a few things bug me in there a bit more than previous seasons. As I've said before, I think it's a result of the last minute episode cut, as I feel like it was shaping up to be my favourite season until a bit too much wasn't followed up on in the last few episodes and [BLACKOUT]Shaw's return being the C-plot to the Voice episode instead of having an episode to itself bugs me[/BLACKOUT].
Number four would be season 2. I think it has the weakest stretch of the series from Masquerade to C.O.D., but the first two of the season, the bigger ideas starting up in the second half and Relevance push it above season 1 for me.
Last would be season 1, which is a good season with great episodes, and I think works better in retrospect as you can see the dominos being set up, but while I enjoy it a lot, the stuff that really made me fall in love with the series came at the end of it and season 2.
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