Prometheus - Part 8

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He did it because he was irritated by Holloway and clearly feels emotions. Also, Lindelof and Fassbender have revealed David has a weird robot crush on Shaw. Given he watches her dreams for two years that makes sense. I'm not saying he is moving Holloway out of the way or anything, but he dislikes this man and finds Shaw more interesting without him around in the future.
Considering Holloway's behavior during the course of the movie i can see why :whatever:

DoomsdayApex said:
Paradise... 2016? Here we come. :woot::up:
2015 wouldn't hurt either, seeing how fast Ridley completed Prometheus, and released 2 years after his last film, Robin Hood
 
I just can't see how the same "stuff" can (a) represent the "seed" of a lifeform, and (b) act as a transformative element on a living being's DNA.


Yes, the two scenes were so similar that I have managed to confuse them. :doh:


Now we get to it: did David just give Holloway a "blob" or ooze, or did he discover and select a small organism of microbe from it? If David deliberately gave Holloway a worm/serpent/squid in microbe form, then a lot of my confusion is cleared up: the "ooze" merely contains living things in microbe form. They grow to become "worms" which grow into "serpents", these impregnate victims like a facehugger, which makes a squid, which makes the Xenomorph. The extra layer of metamorphosis is still troubling, but it begins to make sense.


Yes, like the white in an egg. This all rests on David giving Holloway an actual organism to drink rather than just ooze, of course.


I was. Momentary loss of concentration. :doh:

What exactly happens to Fifield? You would expect the "serpent" to impregnate him, so how come he just becomes Frankenstein's monster?



Argh! This gets more confusing. So, is the ****ing ooze a weaponising fluid, or is it just a nutritional culture for the worm/microbes to live in? If the serpents didn't impregnate Fifield, what exactly happened to him? Did they just fail to find a womb in him? Maybe these early creatures need a womb to develop in, while the later "facehuggers" can make do with a stomach or intestine?

Maybe David deliberately slipped Holloway a microbe in the weaponizing fluid, realizing what the effect of each was? That would allow both for the fluid to contain the "seed" of the squid, and have the weaponising effect on Fifield.

I'm presuming the "worms" must be in the ooze. It seems too much to believe that they were in the chamber by coincidence



Good spot.



I think something like that is a given. It's just that the transition from "squid" thing to "crustacean" thing is a much bigger leap than small "crustacean" (facehugger) thing to big "crustacean" thing. And the leap from laboratory-based genesis to a giant Queen laying eggs is a really huge one.

Need to see this movie again!
Also Fifield didn't get a alien snake in him, that was the other guy. Fifield just got his heltmet melted to his face from the acid from the alien snake, and then fell into the ooze. I don't think the snake impregnated the other guy though. We see it shoot out of him later, and we never see anything from his dead body, so maybe these things don't do that to their victims.

When we first see the worms they're wiggling around in the sand though, so it seems like they were already there. The black ooze reacts badly to the temperature change, and they all start to maybe boil or something, and it spills out on the worms.

I also think that we're all assuming that the black liquid in the beginning is the same as the black ooze, but I don't think it is. If it was then why wouldn't it have the same effect on everyone/thing as it did one the Engineer in the beginning? Also the Engineer at the end when David finds him in that suit, it looks like it's apart of his own body. If you find those pics of him in the suit you can see that it goes into his skin, and I'm wondering if the Engineers have changed their physiology since the one in the beginning?

Yeah, how does it go from that super squid to later the small face hugger? Some of this makes me wonder how much was thought out or if Ridley knows all of this, and intends to show us in sequels how this comes about. What about that mural with the xeno on it, and the face huggers on what looks like humans? So they already have face huggers, and xeno's then? That doesn't make sense. Are they a natural biological alien or do the Engineers make them, then they end up changing later on into a "perfect" organism?

Anyone think if we really do get a sequel that we'll get to find out what happened to the proto xeno at the end of this one?
 
Just saw Prometheus yesterday, and I really, really liked it. Even with all its flaws.
First, the visuals are spectacular,a true masterpiece in that aspect, and the 3d was well used. The acting is great, specially from Noomi and Fassbender. And I like that it expanded the Alien mythology and turned it into a huge puzzle.

But I think the pacing isn't very good, and the ending felt kinda forced. It has some plot holes or inconsistencies that makes things really confusing sometimes. I hope thse extra 20 minutes solve some of this problems.

But I also believe this movie has many layers that will only com to light with repeated viewings, and think it's a lot deeper than many have said.


And I really hope we get to see the extended opening scene, and that it explains some about what that scene really means.

I think they changed the opening scene to make the elders redesigned for a sequel and more clearly a new species. It ties in perfectly with the Sumerian mythology many fans speculate the movie is based on. So does the flying saucer (different from the Engineer's usual horse shoe shaped ships) we see. Also, there is something elegant and very 2001 about a lone man doing that by himself above a waterfall in the dew of early morning. It's actually a beautiful scene.
 
But the statement doesn't necessarily mean that David believes Halloway will turn into a monster, only that grave consequences - like, helping to dismantle the Ottomon Empire and remove some of Germany's firepower via the Arab Revolt (a "sideshow", as it's called in Lawrence of Arabia) - can arise from seemingly innocuous circumstances. Imagine, a tiny blob of genetic goop granting immortality (as Weyland hopes), or giving birth to a massive alien creature (as eventually happens).

Given that the goop could kill Halloway, David's programming likely did require some form of "consent", thought I highly doubt he had any idea what would come of it until Halloway got sick. From that point - and after making the likely assumption that Halloway and Shaw had slept together, David would've been equally curious to see what would come of their sexy-time.

I didn't read it as him checking with her before tellng her, but comfirming what he already surmised. They boinked, and Halloway "infected her".


[BLACKOUT]He already got the consent of Weyland. After speaking with him, Charlize asked him what did he tell him..and he simply said, "Try harder."

This is why he went to infect Charlie.[/BLACKOUT]
 
Yep, all the mutating stuff with the black ooze is confusing. I hope Ridley gives us some answers. I'm very interested in knowing why not all the organisms react the same with it.

Anyone think if we really do get a sequel that we'll get to find out what happened to the proto xeno at the end of this one?

If they already have plans for a sequel, I think they included this scene for a purpose, I really hope it's not only a nod to Alien.
 
Does anyone have a picture of the mural shown in the Bio-weapon room?

*nevermind, found it.
 
Anyone think if we really do get a sequel that we'll get to find out what happened to the proto xeno at the end of this one?

I doubt it. WE get a rough idea how xenomorphs were originally made (the "proto-xenomorph" is different because the conditions were changed by being accidentally created by infected humans), I think the series is now on an entirely different trajectory from Alien. You understand what the SJ was in that movie, what the eggs were and where it was going. Now, the sequel can focus on why the SJ did this and tackle the bigger philosophical questions that Ridley is building to in this film.
 
I'm not sure neither I didn't even know they were planning a sequel to this movie? Anyone have any links talking about a sequel to this?
I remember Ridley planing the project as a two-part film since when the project was still just an Alien Prequel and was untitled, there are many links about the sequel, but this one mentions that there may be more than one sequel, leaving it a potencial trilogy:
http://****************.com/movies/prometheus-start-trilogy/

To tell the truth, if they make it a trilogy i doubt the 2nd film will gain enough money to guarantee a 3rd one, and if they end it with as bif of a cliffhanger as this one did then there will be a big hole of important things that happened off screen between the Prometheus movies and Alien.

The sequel is going to be titled Paradise, here you can see most of what been anounced about the next movies:
http://collider.com/prometheus-2-sequel/172444/

If there are going to be more than 2 movies i think that Ridley could eventually make a movie set in that universe like Prometheus but happening after the Alien movies. I remember somebody saying that Elizabeth and David were going to the planet where Nostromo crew found the xenomorph and space jockey in Alien however Ridley Scott said they were heading for the engeneer's planet, as the title of the film is also titled Paradise.

So i think that the best way to go is by having this arc over during the next film and maybe explore other stories if there's a third Prometheus movie, like showing what happens to the proto-xenomorph left on the planet.

By the way, i'm very happy of how the movie turned out, this along with last year's X-Men: First Class and Rise of the Planet of the Apes is a movie that shows how Fox is letting the directors have complete control of their movies and thanks to that they are giving their respective franchise a boost.
 
James Franco blogged about Prometheus. He wonders why everyone in the movies a jackass lol
 
I'm pretty sure the difference is that Prometheus didn't cost an extra 40 million like SWATH.
Prometheus was more expensive than SWATH. Scott is always making expensive movie. plus it was in 3D. and you have no idea how much time and money was spend on tracking the real locations.a lot
the engineer from WETA cost millions.
 
Ridley actually said this is one of his cheaper movies. There were special effects but alot less than people probably think. He built as many sets and props as he could which actually worked out cheaper than using green screen and CGI.
 
I think they changed the opening scene to make the elders redesigned for a sequel and more clearly a new species. It ties in perfectly with the Sumerian mythology many fans speculate the movie is based on. So does the flying saucer (different from the Engineer's usual horse shoe shaped ships) we see. Also, there is something elegant and very 2001 about a lone man doing that by himself above a waterfall in the dew of early morning. It's actually a beautiful scene.
That's an interesting theory. I really like the whole Sumerian mythology that this movie seems to have followed. Someone posted a whole ton of Sumerian mythology, and how it relates to Prometheus that was a good read, and a lot like what I was thinking.

Also though what if we get a directors cut of the movie, and Ridley put the Elder Engineers back in, how much do you think that would change the tone of the movie? Would it make you look at it any differently? Do you think Ridley will continue with the Sumerian mythology for the sequel or look to something else? I was also thinking that maybe the Elders are normal Engineers, and that they're gods/creators are completely different. Didn't the Igigi's in Sumerian mythology not like humans because we were created more in the likeness of the Anunaki then the Igigi/Engineers were? Maybe that will come into play later on?

I doubt it. WE get a rough idea how xenomorphs were originally made (the "proto-xenomorph" is different because the conditions were changed by being accidentally created by infected humans), I think the series is now on an entirely different trajectory from Alien. You understand what the SJ was in that movie, what the eggs were and where it was going. Now, the sequel can focus on why the SJ did this and tackle the bigger philosophical questions that Ridley is building to in this film.
That's what I was thinking. I'm just so curious about how we go from these canisters of black ooze to biological eggs containing face huggers that I'd like to see what changes to bring the eggs about. Although I can't wait to see Shaw, and David actually make it to the Engineers home world. I think in one of Ridley's interviews he mentioned that we'd think of it as a "paradise", but it's essentially hell, so that will be interesting to see.
 
Prometheus was more expensive than SWATH. Scott is always making expensive movie. plus it was in 3D. and you have no idea how much time and money was spend on tracking the real locations.a lot
the engineer from WETA cost millions.
Prometheus had a budget of 120-130 million dollars, snow white & the Hunstman had a budget of 170 million dollars and much bigger marketing
 
Ridley actually said this is one of his cheaper movies. There were special effects but alot less than people probably think. He built as many sets and props as he could which actually worked out cheaper than using green screen and CGI.
is there a wiki page where its explained that real sets and props are cheaper compared to CGI? i am reading this every month on SHH.
filming on real ocations is expensive. building big sets like in prometheus are insane expensive. and Ridley Scott telling all the CGI artists to not use special trackers on the blue suits and on the practical engineer made it cheaper right? no it did not. it took them weeks to convince him to use red balls when filming outisde . because its har to track this kind of sand.
and everything in 3D.

prometheus is an insane expensive movie.
 
I also think that we're all assuming that the black liquid in the beginning is the same as the black ooze, but I don't think it is. If it was then why wouldn't it have the same effect on everyone/thing as it did one the Engineer in the beginning? Also the Engineer at the end when David finds him in that suit, it looks like it's apart of his own body. If you find those pics of him in the suit you can see that it goes into his skin, and I'm wondering if the Engineers have changed their physiology since the one in the beginning?
the black luquid has to be the same. its a 2 hour movie where we see black liquid in the beginning and then years later there is another black liquid on an alien planet. it has to be the same. if not then its a bad artistic choice.
 
the black luquid has to be the same. its a 2 hour movie where we see black liquid in the beginning and then years later there is another black liquid on an alien planet. it has to be the same. if not then its a bad artistic choice.
You can guess that the engeneers may have made that entire galaxy a military complex, they were probably experiencing with that gene, which is the same as the Xenomorph's, so when things started to go wrong they abandoned the galaxy, the eggs seen in the original Alien film must have been some of what was left behind of their experiences, a complete xenomorph, it doesn't necessarily have to be the same alien from Prometheus or come from that planet.
 
I don't know who sandy-462 of the IMDB boards is, but his nanotech explanation for the ooze, the Xenomorphs and everything else is very intricate and very compelling.

sandy-462 said:
I'm not sure how much science fiction some people posting here read. There are any number of science fiction movies that have weird plot devices but I don't think the black goo is a plot device, it's something quite different, I think it's the first decent cinematic representation of a (relatively well-known) idea - nanotechnology see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanotechnology. I think the black goo is weapons grade nanotech. I think the black goo, an extension of the will of the engineers, *is the antagonist*.

I'm pretty geeked out about it, too, because it's considered a "big gun" in science fiction and isn't always very well written. If that's what we're to take black goo to be, I think they pulled it off nicely. In sci-fi literature, it's typically portrayed as very nasty stuff - a really dirty weapon.

Nanotech, for those who don't know the term, is theoretical and is basically lots and lots of tiny machines no bigger than a germ. In science fiction literature it's typically represented as a fluid, in fact, it's been common in "hard sci-fi" circles to call it "grey goop" or somesuch.

Features of nanotech, depending on how the author is characterising the concept, often also include the ability to self replicate like bacteria, the ability to interface with organic forms at the cellular level, the ability to manufacture things that *aren't* more copies of itself *as well* (molecular factories), and in many representations, it also doubles as a supercomputer and is *conscious*, it's an artificial intelligence. In Prometheus, we would be talking about an artificial intelligence that's designed for warfare, for being pointed at the enemy and deciding for itself how to attack.

I think this fits the black goo beautifully. The black goo even vaguely resembles ferromagnetic fluid (see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me5Zzm2TXh4) in certain shots.

(Ferromagnetic fluid is a suspension of magnetic particles in a special oil that binds them together loosely, but they still respond to magnetism, so, if you allow the idea of microscopic machines that also are able to switch on and off an artificial magnetism within themselves, it's not difficult to imagine that they could align themselves to produce the magnetic fields necessary to move a blobby collection of them about in search of things.)

If I'm right, then I think essentially we're also to take it that everything we've seen so far in the alien franchise is really just *biological scaffolding* for the black goo. i.e. - the xenomorph isn't the alien.

It's the black goo that's the alien.

Nanotech, in science fiction literature, is an extemporiser. It makes things up as it goes along. And if the Promethean black goo is a weapon it's probable that it will have a series of templates to work from that it can adjust to suit it's environment. What's why the original "Alien" and the Cameron Aliens look different. That's why the dog alien in Alien 3 looks different from both. The goo is choosing whatever form that's most useful at the time. In the first movie there's not much life to take advantage of, so it feeds and kills a few "enemies" and then just hides.

I'd suspect that those cannisters of black goo aboard the Promethean ship are delivered like bombs and the goo is just dispersed all over the landscape, programmed to react to whatever environment it's in by exploiting whatever it can find to kill anything that looks like an enemy, which would probably be anything that looks intelligent. When it has nothing to do it just waits.

It's all about efficiency. The xenomorph in the original Alien movie was hiding in the escape pod Narcissus at the end, but we don't know if it's intention was to kill Ripley, it might have been more interested in hiding and waiting until the capsule it was in got back to her home "base", which it wouldn't know anything about, but might contain more "enemies" for it to kill. I'm assuming it would still be carrying it's "kill anything that looks like it can think" programming.) The black goo in *Aliens* has got lots of biological material to play with, many colonists, so it builds a hive with a queen to take advantage of all this abundant flesh.

There's never been any specific claim in any of the Alien movies that the creatures reproduce *genetically*. I've never liked the idea that the creatures take on characteristics of the host because DNA doesn't work like that, you can't just stick some new DNA in an organism and expect it to grow bits of new animal or take on coherent, new characteristics. That would be like removing filing cabinets of material at random from the office of an insurance company and replacing them with one or two new ones from a travel agent and expect the receptionist to suddenly know everything about being a travel agent - you would need an organising influence to take advantage of the information, a new boss or developer, and I think that's the role of the black goo in the movie. DNA doesn't think, there isn't enough state-space in DNA, not enough memory to encode for a thinking machine, do you have to introduce a different process to get creative gene-splicing going.

We saw at the very beginning of Prometheus that the black goo was doing stuff to the lost strands of the engineer's DNA, so it's pretty obvious that it's a creative DNA rewriter. Given that the possibilities of nanotech aren't very well defined at the moment, it would seem like an elegant theory to suppose that the black goo not only takes advantage of whatever biological scaffolding is around to help it in it's immediate goals like moving around (hence Fifield's possession), but would also take advantage of the biological capacities of whatever it's host is. Once it gets inside Elizabeth Shaw it recognises that it has an opportunity to take advantage of. "this is a reproductive system," it thinks to itself once it finds itself inside her womb. "It will be warm and quiet and undisturbed for some time, and well fuelled with nutrients that I can use. Its carrier will have instincts to protect me and whatever I build here, providing it remains ignorant of my presence. I have time to spend, so I will use it to build something big and interesting like a really huge distribution mechanism for MORE of ME."

I don't think the appearance or behaviour of any of the xenomorph variants we've seen so far have anything to do with genetics. I think all of them have been and are being built by the black goo from the available biological material. What more elegant and terrifying way to wage war but use the enemy's own bodies against them? I think there's a definite psychological component.

I think the black goo got out of control aboard that ship somehow. I don't see why it would have to be programmed not to attack the engineers as that would probably require an intellect capable of recognising them, which should be unnecessary when a simpler intellect and careful quarantine procudres when dealing with the dangerous substance would also work.

Except it didn't...

So there you go. That's what I think....

It is maybe a bit too neat. But the ooze appears to be capable of many things, so some sort of "elastic" explanation seems necessary at the moment.

No two people seem to exactly agree on what the ooze is, how the worms come in etc. I don't think anyone could argue that the explanation is obvious.
 
is there a wiki page where its explained that real sets and props are cheaper compared to CGI? i am reading this every month on SHH.
filming on real ocations is expensive. building big sets like in prometheus are insane expensive. and Ridley Scott telling all the CGI artists to not use special trackers on the blue suits and on the practical engineer made it cheaper right? no it did not. it took them weeks to convince him to use red balls when filming outisde . because its har to track this kind of sand.
and everything in 3D.

prometheus is an insane expensive movie.

Just repeating that it's expensive doesn't make it so.

Yeah, it's expensive to film on real sets, if you have to shut down real locations or block traffic for filming. Prometheus is on a desert planet. I doubt filming on a canyon cost that much. The only other real scenes were in a cave.

So you're argument doesn't hold much weight.
 
So, is it true that the ending of this film kinda put the last nail on At the mountains of Madness coffin?
I haven't read the book,so I dont know why he said it, but I was looking forward to see what Del Toro would do with Lovecraft.
 
This is kind of old, but it's from an interview with the guy that played the Engineer in the beginning, and this part is very interesting: "They also forgot to
send me my lines so I only received them the day before, but there were only a few words
in alien to learn so it wasn’t too bad." So he had lines in the beginning of the movie, that were cut from the final version.

He also said:"There are two other ‘Engineers’ who are in the rest of the film and have
fairly large parts, but you will have to wait for release to find out more." We only see one other Engineer at the end, was the other suppose to be the Elder one from the cut scene in the beginning? I wonder what was changed, and why?
 
I really hope Del Toro does AtMoM. It was my first Lovecraft story and not long after I read it he announced that he was doing the film. I've been looking forward to it ever since. :(
 
Fives i looked at a lot of old posts from 2011 when they filmed. and old interviews. things change a lot.

i think they did a fast rewritte before filming started and changed the movie. they were doing a different movie.
 
Fives i looked at a lot of old posts from 2011 when they filmed. and old interviews. things change a lot.

i think they did a fast rewritte before filming started and changed the movie. they were doing a different movie.
I'm aware that things change a lot during filming, but it seems like they were still unsure of the movie they were making right up until the actual filming. I don't think they should be this unsure of their film when they're suppose to be filming if that makes sense. Maybe Ridley will talk about this some during the commentary, which I hope is really long. I'd love to hear all of Ridley's/Lindolf's, and the casts thoughts about the film.
 
I'm aware that things change a lot during filming, but it seems like they were still unsure of the movie they were making right up until the actual filming. I don't think they should be this unsure of their film when they're suppose to be filming if that makes sense. Maybe Ridley will talk about this some during the commentary, which I hope is really long. I'd love to hear all of Ridley's/Lindolf's, and the casts thoughts about the film.
i agree.
 
No two people seem to exactly agree on what the ooze is, how the worms come in etc. I don't think anyone could argue that the explanation is obvious.

I'm not claiming it's obvious or I have the definite answer, but like I said in a previous post that got lost somewhere in the old thread, we never see twice the same configuration in the film :

First, we see an engineer being disintegrated after consumption, and presumably giving birth to humans. Then we can assume worms are infected by contact (why put them there in close-up if they serve no purpose?), and become the hammerpedes. Then a dead/grievously injured human (Fifield) gets infected by contact and is reanimated into a zombie.

Ok, then a live human is infected by consumption (Holloway), who becomes God knows what as he died before we could see what would happen. He infects a live human (Shaw) via his sperm, which causes a creature to grow inside her. Finally, this creature who contains at the very least 3 different sets of DNA (black goo + Holloway + Shaw) infects an Engineer, which results in the Deacon.

So, we never see twice the same thing happen, there's always either a different species or a different method of infection involved in the process.

If we are to assume that the black goo is some kind of "life giver", which utilizes the DNA of the entity that it comes into contact with to create something else, then it's not unreasonable to get so many reactions out of so many different configurations.
 
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