Justice League Real Talk - Where does the DCEU go from here? - Part 2

[Patchwork Man]

Is it Gadot that people fell in love with or is it Wonder Woman? I'm inclined to believe someone else could fill the role just fine.

List of surefire-win candidates, please.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Man of Steel I think was liked enough by most people (it was not a total disaster with critics, but also not great and it wasn't hated like BvS upon release). But, BvS (though I liked the UC of it) and JL are dumpster fires (I am ignoring SS cause it had no main JL members outside of cameos). I think the DCEU cannot be killed altogether right now. People loved Wonder Woman and Aquaman is yet to come out (maybe it will shock us, who knows...I do like James Wan). But, it's on life support. I think if WW was poorly received, it just would have died and been over now. Wonder Woman 2 will happen. Suicide Squad 2 likely happens (lest we forget, that made money). But, I can see the connective tissue of the shared universe being minimized. Also, I don't see fringe characters like Black Adam getting movies in the end. Heck, we shall see if Shazam actually goes behind cameras at this point. I am not sure we get a JL2 anytime soon, and any hopes at a MoS2 may sadly be dead

I want the DCEU to succeed and keep going. I just don't know how long it can last or how many chances WB will take given what happened with Justice League. That one hurt.

 

[DerekLake]

Man of Steel I think was liked enough by most people (it was not a total disaster with critics, but also not great and it wasn't hated like BvS upon release). But, BvS (though I liked the UC of it) and JL are dumpster fires (I am ignoring SS cause it had no main JL members outside of cameos). I think the DCEU cannot be killed altogether right now. People loved Wonder Woman and Aquaman is yet to come out (maybe it will shock us, who knows...I do like James Wan). But, it's on life support. I think if WW was poorly received, it just would have died and been over now. Wonder Woman 2 will happen. Suicide Squad 2 likely happens (lest we forget, that made money). But, I can see the connective tissue of the shared universe being minimized. Also, I don't see fringe characters like Black Adam getting movies in the end. Heck, we shall see if Shazam actually goes behind cameras at this point. I am not sure we get a JL2 anytime soon, and any hopes at a MoS2 may sadly be dead

I want the DCEU to succeed and keep going. I just don't know how long it can last or how many chances WB will take given what happened with Justice League. That one hurt.

My guess is, if Aquaman fails, Shazam, WW 2 and Batman are separate trilogies, with a hard reboot coming in about 7 years. If Aquaman succeeds despite JL, then they keep the DCEU alive, but they use Aquaman, Shazam and Wonder Woman to soft reboot the DCEU (Reeves’ Batman will stay separate I assume).

My fear, though, is that they’ll just use Batman to continue their existing model, which has been to develop a singular trilogy with several spin-off films, rather than fully invest in a coherent, character-focused shared universe.

 

[Jekecy]

Is Gal irreplaceable?

If she was recast would the character never be the same? Does she fit the role the way RDJ made Iron Man his own? The way Heath made the joker his own. The way Hugh made Wolverine his own? If either of the last three were recast I would have a hard time watching that role again... As I did with Leto. I don't feel that way with Gal. She's great, but she doesn't make Wonder Woman what she is. I like the character and what she stands for, but I think there are a ton of female actresses that could do what she does, if not better.

No one’s irreplaceable. But certain actors make it harder because of audience attachment.

At this point, Gal absolutely has to stay. Combined with the movie’s success, Gal and even Patty have risen as beloved public figures. Their sudden departures would be devastating for WB PR. That’s the last they need when the next year is going to be pure restructuring.

 

[DerekLake]

No one’s irreplaceable. But certain actors make it harder because of audience attachment.

At this point, Gal absolutely has to stay. Combined with the movie’s success, Gal and even Patty have risen as beloved public figures. Their sudden departures would be devastating for WB PR. That’s the last they need when the next year is going to be pure restructuring.

As long as Patty stays, Gal will stay. At the worst, they’ll let Patty (and Gal) finish out her trilogy alongside Matt Reeves’s Batman trilogy before rebooting the whole thing.

 

[marcvader]

Lets get some solid solo films before trying the shared universe again.

 

[Binker]

Lets get some solid solo films before trying the shared universe again.

Even though I/we want JL2, part of a shared universe?


This whole talk has made me mad because I really want one answer to explain this, why and whats happening now.


I don't want a reboot. The right choices are a soft reboot thats 5 years later in canon, or just change things with the next movies like "snap"


I really want the right decisions to be made, and so far, WB and even speculated what ifs here are making my head hurt because even fans aren't making the right ones either. And if I'm right in assuming why people didn't see JL (not looking like MCU, no Bale or Gustin) then no one is going to win at this.



Just continue on and make changes along the way. But above all, WB NEEDS TO STAY AWAY. MONEY PEOPLE, NOT IDEA PEOPLE.

 

[Frodo]

Lets get some solid solo films before trying the shared universe again.

Yeah. I tend to think that's ultimately what will happen. Even with the latest Legion of Doom idea floating around WB, I'm skeptical WB will really have the guts to triple down after JL's performance.

Maybe, after some solid successful WW , Aquaman, and Batman films they'll revisit the shared universe team up film again. For now, the fact that they've established a shared universe will be sufficient to move on with solo films without having to constantly refer back to each other .

That's assuming a few characters aren't rebooted.

 

[Predator jp]

I'd say all 5 tires (including your spare) are flat, windows were smashed, transmission is shot, headlights are busted, major body damage and rust to all sides AND you need an oil change.

Does having a nice paint job (WW) mean it's worth it to fix, or attempt to drive, with the rest of those things? [/spoiler]

i honestly don't think the whole situation is not as bad as you say.

 

[DerekLake]

Lets get some solid solo films before trying the shared universe again.

Yeah. I tend to think that's ultimately what will happen. Even with the latest Legion of Doom idea floating around WB, I'm skeptical WB will really have the guts to triple down after JL's performance.

Maybe, after some solid successful WW , Aquaman, and Batman films they'll revisit the shared universe team up film again. For now, the fact that they've established a shared universe will be sufficient to move on with solo films without having to constantly refer back to each other .

That's assuming a few characters aren't rebooted.

If they want to do a Legion of Doom JL sequel properly, they’ll need 7-8 solo films anyway both to further develop (or reintroduce) core JL characters and to properly establish their villains, so another crossover/team-up film could be 4-5 years down the road. I’d rather they use broader world-building as background connective tissue while focusing on the heroes. It should be fairly easy to have true solo films with most of the characters without abandoning the shared universe. It will be trickier, though, with Shazam, Wonder Woman and Aquaman, as they share a connection with the Greek gods (a connection I hope remains, especially between Wonder Woman and Shazam).

 

[TheGDBatman]

i honestly don't think the whole situation is not as bad as you say.

I agree. I think the analogy was over dramatic.

I do think that breaking away from the conventional Marvel set up (solo films followed by team up films) could have worked, but it wasn't properly executed. One of the big things that worked against it was the limited run time for JL that prevented further character development and the generation of points of intrigue for the new characters. Now, it looks like they'll probably ape the marvel model. I just hope that they find a vision and direction that, while having more general audience appeal, still retains a distinctly DC feel to it. For example, I don't want to feel like I could watch one of their movies, and essentially interchange the character with an Ironman or an Antman, etc and notice no difference.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Is Gal irreplaceable?

If she was recast would the character never be the same? Does she fit the role the way RDJ made Iron Man his own? The way Heath made the joker his own. The way Hugh made Wolverine his own? If either of the last three were recast I would have a hard time watching that role again... As I did with Leto. I don't feel that way with Gal. She's great, but she doesn't make Wonder Woman what she is. I like the character and what she stands for, but I think there are a ton of female actresses that could do what she does, if not better.

I don't think anyone is irreplaceable, RDJ and Hugh Jackman included. The characters are bigger than the actors.

Whether she should be replaced is the issue at hand though, and unless she refuses to come back, I think it would be a mistake to do so given how well her film and character was received. Replace her when she doesn't want to do it anymore.

 

[Venom'sDad]

Lets get some solid solo films before trying the shared universe again.

Personally, I think solo films, at this point, is a mistake. That train has come & gone...and should have been the approach leading up to JL...them discovering each other & the realization that others exist not only on Earth; but, throughout the regions of the Universe. Which is why I was against them abandoning Green Lantern...just reboot the approach...but they wanted the Universe to start with MoS; so...ok.

Still, let me clarify better, I think the solo "Origin" films are a mistake. They need to establish the universe they reside in now...show the continuity of the time period they all are in now. Team-ups should be the approach, showing they exist in the same period, helping/assisting each other building camaraderie, meeting/introducing new characters, be it friend or foe. Auqaman is done; but, why do we need too see backstory or origin of Flash, Cyborg, eventually Green Lantern....the backstory has virtually already been address or introduced with these characters, be it briefly, but it's covered....move on to building the Universe, while introducing new characters, with the same brief treatment. DC/WB don't need to dedicate a whole film for that.

Create their own approach & stop following The Marvel Approach....cause I guarantee, Marvel will not follow the same approach they about to complete over eventually 12 years, 22 films. Just my advice.

 

[StormC]

Gal is young and hungry for work. Wonder Woman is the biggest success she has had by far and has become a figurehead for girls and women around the world. Nobody involved with the franchise has any reason for her to be recast.

 

[StormC]

I really want the right decisions to be made, and so far, WB and even speculated what ifs here are making my head hurt because even fans aren't making the right ones either. And if I'm right in assuming why people didn't see JL (not looking like MCU, no Bale or Gustin) then no one is going to win at this.

People didn’t see JL because they hated BVS. It’s really that simple.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Does anyone know the legal situation surrounding Superman? I know it was always said that they had to make MoS or else they would lose the rights.

Because if they can sit on Superman for awhile, they probably should. It has been almost 40 years since the last widely popular Superman movie. His character more than any other has been badly damaged by this whole franchise. I think you need to give the audience time to forget about that.

Batman has TDKT fresh enough in the audience's mind that I think a simple soft-reboot is all he really needs.

 

[Romannen]

There is this guy on Youtube who argues that Snyder is a director ahead of his time and that MoS and BvS will be looked upon fondly 5 years from now when people get tired of the Marvel formula. I don't know about that.

 

[Patchwork Man]

Does anyone know the legal situation surrounding Superman? I know it was always said that they had to make MoS or else they would lose the rights.

The interim between Superman Returns and MoS is due to Singer's leaving the project before filming his sequel, and WB starting over from scratch.

 

[MbJ]

There is this guy on Youtube who argues that Snyder is a director ahead of his time and that MoS and BvS will be looked upon fondly 5 years from now when people get tired of the Marvel formula. I don't know about that.

I knew a guy like that who once tried to convince me The Spirit would be remembered as a classic in a few years. Any day now.

 

[InJustice]

I think a clean slate is the only option they have at this point. You could try and hope for a WW-tier movie with the rest of the Justice League characters, but the problem remains: 1) Snyder is essentially a toxic presence now that people aren't re/watching JL, just like what happened with BvS. 2) How likely are you actually going capture another lightning in the bottle with Aquaman/Flash/Cyborg like WB did with Wonder Woman? Furthermore, say you fire Snyder and the rest of the creative team, you're just going to end up with a diluted and inconsistent product compared to the MCU, which is what WB is missing the biggest point about. You need the ability to deliver a high level product with consistency.

This is frustrating because I never thought I'd live to see the day where a Justice League movie is worse than some of my favourite stories in the series.

 

[Jonwo]

No to the reboot.
JL was in a way a soft reboot. Total change of tone.
Just keep moving forward.
2018...Aquaman
2019...WW 2
2020...Batman solo
2020...MoS2
2021...Flashpoint
2021... Aquaman 2
in each film give us and end credit scene where Lex is assembling the losing villains in each film for the Legion of Doom/Injustice League
2022...JL2

Nice slow build up. That's how you do it.

That's what I'm thinking, I can't see WB rebooting especially since Aquaman is the can, Shazam is going to start shooting soon and Wonder Woman was a massive hit for them and is getting a sequel. I wouldn't be surprised if The Batman is essentially their SMH.

Suicide Squad was financially successful so they're not going to scrap the sequel as I think they could go the Wolverine route with it and ignore the first film and just do a new mission with a mix of old and new characters, it'll make less than the first film but it's well received and has a similar if not lower budget then it'll make money. You could even tie in the Legion of Doom idea to SS2.

My guess schedule wise is:
December 2018: Aquaman
April 2019: Shazam
November 2019: Wonder Woman 2
February 2020: Suicide Squad 2
June or July 2020: The Batman
July 2021: Aquaman 2 or Green Lantern Corps
November 2021: Aquaman 2 or Green Lantern Corps

 

[Iceman]

I knew a guy like that who once tried to convince me The Spirit would be remembered as a classic in a few years. Any day now.

Is it remembered at all?

 

[DeadlyDiarrhea]

I like Gal but one major success doesn't make her irreplaceable, not to the extent that Hugh Jackman was for the Wolverine or Harrison Ford was for Indiana Jones or presumably RDJ for Iron Man (I say presumably because I hardly watched any MCU movies, so I can't be a good judge). For Gal to reach those levels she would need to continually prove herself in at least another solo film, IMO. Even then, the character of WW is larger than just one actress, and it's inevitable that Gal will pass the mantle to someone else. Just how far and how many movies that would take is up for debate. I'm cautiously optimistic; sure, Patty Jenkins is basically 2 for 2, but that's a small sample size.

On the other hand, the rest of the cast of DCEU doesn't quite enjoy the advantageous position that Gal has. Jason Momoa would depend on how well Aquaman does. As for the rest of the cast, things are looking very tenuous, I have to say.

 

[GreenKToo]

Lets get some solid solo films before trying the shared universe again.

Agreed. IMO, the only way you are really gonna get folks excited again, is to hire directors like, brad bird, ron howard, or peter Jackson.
Someone that can tell a good story AND deliver action.

I don't care what anyone says, WB rushed the he11 out of this AND approved the shoddy CG, that alone should cause someone to be fired.

 

[jmc]

There is this guy on Youtube who argues that Snyder is a director ahead of his time and that MoS and BvS will be looked upon fondly 5 years from now when people get tired of the Marvel formula. I don't know about that.

It's complete nonsense. Snyder isn't doing anything revolutionary in his film making other than having a decent eye for dynamic visuals, which frankly is still either hit or miss for a lot of people.