Safe Haven for Those Who Demand More

[Herr Logan]

The Batcomputer, being on the absolute cutting-edge of technology, does indeed offer notes for the data put into it. It would offer the most 'scientific' way to analyze this data. Batman would have the necessary logarithms programmed into the machine. The Batcomputer would offer a recall on information sources, how they panned out, and probabilities based on the scenario and the like. Mind you, this isn't necessarily the 'correct' answer, but just data. However, what is the Batman if not improvisational? Based on actual play in the field, the decision may need to be something that goes against conventional wisdom (the example of infiltrating The Joker's gang stands out). Of course the Dark Knight has a way to access this information (whether it's in the form of his actual memory or computer interaction is a stylistic choice). Perhaps computer analysis tells you exactly what you need to know. Perhaps the most direct approach is the converse of what the computer yields. Perhaps the preferred path lies somewhere in the middle. The player needs to be able to assess the situation at hand and make an informed decision.

The computer keeps track of the 'best' way to go about things, but not necessarily the most direct or effective. You would want to put the emphasis on the player to make the appropriate decisions. It's not going to be much fun if the player can just rely on the computer to all of Batman's analytical work. This isn't a cookie-cutter game. You're right when you talk of the sophistication of the computer in terms of housing a wealth of data of all Gotham residents. The Batman's files would be more complete than those of the police because he has access to intel they don't. This is just more of an opportunity for the player to make sense out of all the data (data, not yet information).

The GPS/Mental Map/Batcomputer interaction is necessary because Batman will always have a more than working knowledge of the field. The GPS is going to give him all accessible and relevant points in Gotham. Your assessment of it is absolute. I practically get giddy anytime the z-axis is mentioned.


I like the idea of Alfred throwing out an obvious, yet veiled remark in case Bruce goes entirely contrary to all logic. Sometimes a stretch might need to be made, but not a complete leap of faith. As always the player is free to ignore this, but to his own possible (and likely) detriment.



As far as the mini-games to increase language/accent proficiencies, the easiest thing to do would be to incorporate one of those arrow-based matchup games that seem to be prevalent (player matches D-Pad movement/keystrokes with a listed script). That seems to easy. Plus, I never really cared for those things anyhow. An 8-year can follow left, right, up, down. This is Batman we're talking about. Clearly, there's something more involved that can be taken advantage of. Unfortunately, that answer escapes me now. However, it can certainly be done.

You're totally on the same page, yet again, Mister J.

In regards to Patriot Act, I enjoyed the juxtaposition of non-superpowered beings taking on a super-powered threat. In the end the crushing blow came in the form of the criticism of those whom Eiling thought he was protecting. It was powerful. The matter of fact approach Simmons took to voicing the character hit hard in "Okay, I've become what I hate. I'll give you that." That's serious food for thought. In the end, he really had no place, which (I imagine) is why he took off rather abruptly yet conclusively.

As for Vigilante, last I checked he was supposed to be dead. Of course, this is comicdom, so what does dead really mean? It’s fitting that he and Shining Knight were paired up. I have no idea how either of them is in current continuity (even for an animated show). It seems as if those two would have been killed off in the Crisis. I like their inclusion, even though they’re definitely displaced. All I needed to make it complete was for Jonah Hex to show up. Then again, I never get my way.

If I’ve overlooked any relevant analysis, please mention as much. I attribute any oversight to my desire to evade sleep.

Your oversight was that you forgot to tell me if Vigilante comes from an era other than the 20th/21st century in the JLU or true DC continuity.

I'm about to post a chunk of what I've got so far with regard to 'Batman: Dark Knight Detective,' a bunch o' which I've probably already mentioned throughout our discussion. I'm currently filling in details for the equipment he'll be using in the field, so I'll save that whole section for later. The section I'll post very soon will be somewhat incomplete and will no doubt be further revised later. In the meantime, feel free to post further suggestions on what might make this game the best Batman-related product in human history.


Let it be noted that Hunter Rider has promised to give us a proposal (or something like that) for a faithful and quality Iron Man adaptation, on the morrow, to be precise.


Zev: did you plan on having your second Captain America movie feature his fateful battle with Baron Zemo, cryonic hiatus and subsequent revival in a more contemporary era?

 

[Mister J]

You're totally on the same page, yet again, Mister J.




Your oversight was that you forgot to tell me if Vigilante comes from an era other than the 20th/21st century in the JLU or true DC continuity.

I'm about to post a chunk of what I've got so far with regard to 'Batman: Dark Knight Detective,' a bunch o' which I've probably already mentioned throughout our discussion. I'm currently filling in details for the equipment he'll be using in the field, so I'll save that whole section for later. The section I'll post very soon will be somewhat incomplete and will no doubt be further revised later. In the meantime, feel free to post further suggestions on what might make this game the best Batman-related product in human history.


Let it be noted that Hunter Rider has promised to give us a proposal (or something like that) for a faithful and quality Iron Man adaptation, on the morrow, to be precise.


Zev: did you plan on having your second Captain America movie feature his fateful battle with Baron Zemo, cryonic hiatus and subsequent revival in a more contemporary era?

Sounds good. I'll mull over more inclusions for the game. I was thinking about vehicle capabilities.

Hunter's take should prove interesting. Iron Man is a wickedly powerful character.

Back to Vig, as far as I knew he was a mid-20th Century guy who has found his way into modern times (ignoring aging and all). It's possible he was re-booted for the Crisis. I know there was a Earth-1 and Earth-2 incarnation of the character. I guess sleep does help comprehension.

Captain America? Now, there's an idea.

 

[Herr Logan]

Batman: Dark Knight Detective
​

RATING SYSTEM:

Dark:

• Stealth—ratio of time unseen by enemies, police and civilians to total time in costume
• Theatricality—timing, entrances and exits, successful fear tactics; movement style
• Identity—ability to keep secret identity by maintaining distinct behavior in each persona, elude police looking to question Bruce Wayne

Knight:

• Rescues and Saves—ratio of known individuals endangered to individuals saved by the Batman
• Fighting Ability—average duration of battle from opening strike to submission/defeat of opponent; ratio of strikes thrown to strikes connected; style and variation
• Resourcefulness—creativity to escape danger, attack, captivity; escape efficiency; ratio of injuries avoided to injuries suffered, close calls not due to own mistakes

Detective:

• Thoroughness —ratio of cases pursued to total cased; ratio of cases closed to cases pursued; ratio of clues and evidence gathered to clues and evidence available; ratio of suspects caught to total suspects;
• Efficiency—average duration of investigation from first knowledge to close; ratio of convictions and probable convictions to total arrests;
• People Skills—cooperation with police; interrogation success rate, style and variability; mastery of disguise and pretense; profiling and personality estimation, psychological manipulation;

REWARDS:

• Alternate costumes
  [*]FMVs (classic moments in Bat-lore, memories associated with artifacts in Batman’s residences)
  [*]Upgraded equipment in the field and in the Cave
  [*]Comic book covers, artwork

PLOT:

Intro:
?

Story Events (not in order):

Batman’s street informants are killed off; must establish new ones.
That means he has to set up surveillance on each or most of the major gangs and crime families in the city and "create" a new snitch in each one. The player does this by observing the NPCs' behavior, reading the Batcomputer's information on psychological profiling, picking a good candidate for snitchhood, confronting the lucky bastard in private and convincing him to cooperate on a long-term basis by using various psychological tactics in concert for each prospective snitch (intimidation, blackmail, a little bit of cash now and then, etc.). Sounds like hard work (and it would be), but does that not sound like the ultimate detective game experience?


Batman’s undercover aliases (ex. Matches Malone) are “outed”; must create new ones.
There is a costuming and makeup center in the Batcave where Bruce can become a new man. This would play out a bit like the character creator stage in 'The Sims' (except less detailed for the sake of technical stuff) but more entertaining, because veteran stage actor and master of disguise Alfred Pennyworth will be standing by with suggestions and dry wit a-plenty while you try on facial features and clothing to blend in with the scum of the streets. You are essentially becoming the same kind of person whom you'd use as a street informant, and you will mingle with the criminal element in places such as My Alibi and the Iceberg Lounge (in completely different identities, of course, since that's an enormous difference in class there). Alfred will help you with disguise and voice modulation (you'll "try on" different voices and accents, too), but in the gameplay itself, most of the acting decisions are up to you.

Riddles

Jailbreak/riot at Arkham Asylum

Batman framed, hunted by police

All notable villains featured


TUTORIALS(training flashbacks, not in order):

Fighting

• Punching/Kicking
• Blocking/Defense
• Dashing/Evading
• Grappling/Throwing
• Jump/Acrobatics Maneuvers
• Weapons/Cape attacks
• First Aid

Getting around

• Walking/Running/Jumping
• Interacting
• Rappelling/Swinging/Climbing
• Acrobatics
• Driving
• Gliding
• Swimming
• Batwing

Detective Skills

• Basic police procedure
• Collecting Evidence (crime scene investigation)
• Analyzing Evidence (criminalistics)
• Finding suspects (manhunting)
• Surveillance
• Infiltration
• Interrogation
• Disguise
• Undercover work
• Escapology

Gadgets


Psychological Tactics:

• Timing
• Fear
• Intimidation
• Psychological manipulation:
• Answering and asking questions
• Bruce Wayne vs. Batman behavior

CRIMES/CASES:

• Terrorism (ex. Scarecrow, the Joker, etc. demanding money or official actions by city, or else…)
• Homicide
• Kidnapping
• Assault & Battery
• Robbery
• Burglary
• Grand Larceny
• Carjacking
• Extortion

LAYOUT

GOTHAM CITY:

A fully functional Gotham City. There would be buildings you can enter, but only certain ones, because the Batman does everything for a reason and therefore would not choose to go into random apartments or places of business, and certainly not in full view of the public. I want the there to be a rating system that, among other things, encourages you to stay out of civilians' sight. If you need to run through a crowd during a crime in progress or any other necessary appearances, you wouldn't be punished, but in general, being seen close-up by uninvolved parties lowers your stealth rating and makes you just a little bit less of a potent urban legend. The system should take into account what's actually going on when deciding whether to punish you or reward you. I want there to be a healthy balance of stealth and theatricality. I want a lighting/shadow engine at least on par with the 'Splinter Cell' games. Much of the game would be based on those game mechanics in fact, but not all. Some of the primary inspirations for the format of this game would be:.
'Splinter Cell': stealth, gadgetry, lighting engine, and quick access to pertinent information.
'True Crime: New York City’: the huge, sprawling environment, instant alerts of random street crimes while driving and the ability to leave the perps handcuffed.
'Spider-Man 2': upward mobility (climbing and jump lines) and access to all elevations of the city, from the tallest building to street level.

Areas (detailed and fully accessible):

• Batcave
  [*]Wayne Manor
  [*]Wayne Enterprises
  [*]Arkham Asylum
  [*]My Alibi (a bar, regular hangout for lowlifes)
  [*]Iceberg Lounge (Penguin’s nightclub)
  [*]Sewers
  [*]

INTERFACE

Controls (assumed to be an Xbox controller):

Back: Portable Computer
Start: Pause/ Personal inventory and options menu
L. Trigger: Block/ defense
R. Trigger: Dash/evade
Left Analog Stick: Movement (click down to toggle crouch/stealth)
Right Analog Stick: Camera (click down to toggle binoculars)
Directional Pad: Triggers “Bat sense” and inventory menu
Up/Down: Offensive equipment
Left/Right: Utility equipment
X: Punch
Y: Kick
A: Jump
B: Action/interact/pick up/grapple
Black:
White: First-person view

MENUS

MENTAL LOG

• Priorities/Objectives
• Current Investigation Info:
  • Case
  • Evidence/Clues
  • Leads
  • Suspects:
    • Info
    • Conclusions

Gotham Info:

• Mental Map
• Catalogue:
  • Locations
  • Schedules of various professions and people

BATCOMPUTER

• Case Log
• Criminal Database
• GPS/Gotham Database
• Technical Information
• Training Manuals
• Legal Procedure (what evidence leads to conviction, to be left for or sent to the police, or left at crime scene)
• Ally Profiles
• History/ Mythology (everything in Batman history that could conceivably be of use in gameplay)
• Interface Options

Batcomputer: Within this massive database, there are hundreds of case files and dossiers. Many of these will be straight from the comics. Individual cases that have either been solved or are still open. Not all of these files have involved the Batman directly, though. Everything you'd ever want to know about the Batman universe should be available in this computer, although you might have to do some digging. It's possible there will be a section of the computer that is catalogued by comic book issue number, but I want that to be an add-on to a more formalized database that contains the same information in the form of police reports (DD5s) and the Batman's own written files. For the police cases the Batman was involved in, there may simply be attached notes written by the Dark Knight that fill in the gaps. In any case, the dossiers and case files will come into play at several points in the game.

 

[Mister J]

Impressive. There's alot of depth and detail there.

Speaking to the storyline, there's much that can be done with the Arkham riot/jailbreak. The set-up in Knightfall comes to mind. Several criminals/villains have escaped and Batman must track them down. The player would need to properly deploy available resources (Batcomputer profiles, newly developed informants, aliases). This could very easily be a deeply involved and satisfying portion of the game.

I was bouncing around the idea of having a noted public/political figure at the crux of the Bruce Wayne/Batman plight. He would be something of a puppet to the true behind-the-scenes mastermind (not knowing his full identity though). This comes across as the most direct way to get Batman and the GCPD at odds. This public figure is a stakeholder in Wayne Enterprises and 'discovers' flaws in the product line on Wayne's watch. He mentions similarities between company prototypes and the equipment believed to be used by Batman. He wouldn't be able to make a direct link because that's too obvious and comprises the urban legend aspect of Batman. This is just information he's being spoon-fed from his shadowy counterpart. Maybe some this equipment is at the scene of a multiple homicide where some lowlifes were found to be in league with a dirty cop. Perception leads to the belief Batman has crossed the line and even taken out a rogue officer. Perhaps that's too simple though, as well as incomplete. I'm scrambling for a way to tighten it all up.

There's more to come. For now, it's back to the lab. I am drawn by the allure of the awaiting frosty beverages. It's out of my hands.

 

[Zev]

I was bouncing around the idea of having a noted public/political figure at the crux of the Bruce Wayne/Batman plight. He would be something of a puppet to the true behind-the-scenes mastermind (not knowing his full identity though). This comes across as the most direct way to get Batman and the GCPD at odds. This public figure is a stakeholder in Wayne Enterprises and 'discovers' flaws in the product line on Wayne's watch. He mentions similarities between company prototypes and the equipment believed to be used by Batman. He wouldn't be able to make a direct link because that's too obvious and comprises the urban legend aspect of Batman. This is just information he's being spoon-fed from his shadowy counterpart. Maybe some this equipment is at the scene of a multiple homicide where some lowlifes were found to be in league with a dirty cop. Perception leads to the belief Batman has crossed the line and even taken out a rogue officer. Perhaps that's too simple though, as well as incomplete. I'm scrambling for a way to tighten it all up.

Rupert Thorne?

 

[Zev]

Zev: did you plan on having your second Captain America movie feature his fateful battle with Baron Zemo, cryonic hiatus and subsequent revival in a more contemporary era?

I was thinking you could end the first one with Bucky's death and him getting frozen (I realize Red Skull being responsible for killing Bucky is a bit of a stretch, but it's a bit more of a stretch for two or more villains from the 1940s surviving along with Cap in a condition well enough to exchange blows), depending on whether you wanted to go straight into the Avengers/modern-day era. Of course, you could go the opposite way and give him adventures in the Pacific Theater, fighting against the Africa Korps, etc. But I'd imagine that you'd want to get him into modern-day as soon as possible, because period films are expensive and period superhero movies are always a risky endeavor (The Shadow, The Phantom, The Rocketeer... not a lot of box office hits in that category).

 

[Mister J]

Rupert Thorne?

*ding, ding, ding* Get that man a prize!

Thorne initially came to mind, but I didn't mention him by name because I was toying with making the guy more of drone-type schmuck. However, perhaps Thorne as an already established member of the Batverse makes more sense. We could have him purporting to be reformed.

 

[Herr Logan]

Impressive. There's alot of depth and detail there.

Whew... you're tellin' me!

Sometimes I think I'm spending too much time on the upcoming details on the equipment the Batman uses, but reading them over, it says a lot about the variety, complexity and dangers of the Batman's routine work.

Speaking to the storyline, there's much that can be done with the Arkham riot/jailbreak. The set-up in Knightfall comes to mind. Several criminals/villains have escaped and Batman must track them down. The player would need to properly deploy available resources (Batcomputer profiles, newly developed informants, aliases). This could very easily be a deeply involved and satisfying portion of the game.

I was thinking that the Batman should make several visits to Arkham Asylum before all Hell breaks lose with a breakout later on in the game. One big question is this: do the inmates bust out of their cells while the Batman is already within the complex, or before he gets there?

Can you imagine how creepy and impressive Arkham could be in highly interactive, detailed, fully accessible (not necessarily easily accessible, however... you gotta use your tools) ditigal environment with dozens of insane captives, a dozen or so big-name rogues and hundreds and hundreds of spontaneous and context-specific scripts? It would be hideously beautiful.

I figure that in the course of the game before the big breakout and riot occurs, the Batman will have been hunting, defeating and essentially imprisoning a good number of the big rogues at Arkham. Then, when he is compelled to go there again to help stop a potential (and then real) jailbreak, most of the big shots of Gotham's criminally insane community have made their way back into the city again by the time the choas at Arkham is quelled. This is another example of how the Batman's hard work is undone and he has to work fast to bring things back to what they should be (or at least as close to that as things have ever been). This necessitates that every major villain in the rogue's gallery that is caught before the jailbreak and then sought out afterward will have at least two significant mini-plots or action sequences to them. In some cases, the mini-plot or hunt sequences will be more elaborate or exciting before the jailbreak, and for others the opposite will be true. The difference there is that some villains would have had a well thought-out scheme going on before the Batman spoils their fun, and some either hadn't solidified their next big concept until after getting arrested again or just think very quickly while in stir. Either way, there should be a deliberate alternation between big cases that make the player go "This is a really fun way to avoid doing my homework," and "Well drown the kids and shoot the neighbors! I hope this one doesn't end!" The player should be hooked in the beginning, but their attention and dedication should be maintained all the way through, so since it's impossible to maintain balance is the key.

I was bouncing around the idea of having a noted public/political figure at the crux of the Bruce Wayne/Batman plight. He would be something of a puppet to the true behind-the-scenes mastermind (not knowing his full identity though). This comes across as the most direct way to get Batman and the GCPD at odds. This public figure is a stakeholder in Wayne Enterprises and 'discovers' flaws in the product line on Wayne's watch. He mentions similarities between company prototypes and the equipment believed to be used by Batman. He wouldn't be able to make a direct link because that's too obvious and comprises the urban legend aspect of Batman. This is just information he's being spoon-fed from his shadowy counterpart. Maybe some this equipment is at the scene of a multiple homicide where some lowlifes were found to be in league with a dirty cop. Perception leads to the belief Batman has crossed the line and even taken out a rogue officer. Perhaps that's too simple though, as well as incomplete. I'm scrambling for a way to tighten it all up.

There's more to come. For now, it's back to the lab. I am drawn by the allure of the awaiting frosty beverages. It's out of my hands.

Well, it should be made clear that the actual hands-on product manufacturing has precious little to do with Bruce Wayne. Others in the company should be in trouble for that, which is just as bad as going after Bruce Wayne, because hurting other people is how you hurt the Batman, right?
I'm thinking every important level of management, including the manufacturing, should be under investigation and public scrutiny, so Wayne will get looked at hard for... whatever the hell he supposedly does at the company.

I like the idea of having someone a public figure that looks like the mastermind. Someone who is clearly guilty of something in the Batman's eyes. Someone the Batman can pay a little visit to at night, regardless of how many guards and security precautions the suspect hides behind... Sounds like a nice little scenario!

 

[Herr Logan]

I was thinking you could end the first one with Bucky's death and him getting frozen (I realize Red Skull being responsible for killing Bucky is a bit of a stretch, but it's a bit more of a stretch for two or more villains from the 1940s surviving along with Cap in a condition well enough to exchange blows), depending on whether you wanted to go straight into the Avengers/modern-day era. Of course, you could go the opposite way and give him adventures in the Pacific Theater, fighting against the Africa Korps, etc. But I'd imagine that you'd want to get him into modern-day as soon as possible, because period films are expensive and period superhero movies are always a risky endeavor (The Shadow, The Phantom, The Rocketeer... not a lot of box office hits in that category).

I would indeed want to expedite it to modern-day era. I like Cap outside a wartime setting best.

 

[Mister J]

Well, it should be made clear that the actual hands-on product manufacturing has precious little to do with Bruce Wayne. Others in the company should be in trouble for that, which is just as bad as going after Bruce Wayne, because hurting other people is how you hurt the Batman, right?
I'm thinking every important level of management, including the manufacturing, should be under investigation and public scrutiny, so Wayne will get looked at hard for... whatever the hell he supposedly does at the company.

Definitely, I meant to imply that Wayne would catch some flak as in 'these are your people' or 'Wayne, you were responsible this line'. It does need to be clear that he's not hands-on. I wanted to tie Wayne to the product failure as you would hold an high-level executive responsible for his underlying departments. We would need to flush out his role though. Outside of his last name, his ties to the company seem to vary. I imagine we would encounter that issue while fully developing the plot.

 

[Zev]

Well, it should be made clear that the actual hands-on product manufacturing has precious little to do with Bruce Wayne. Others in the company should be in trouble for that, which is just as bad as going after Bruce Wayne, because hurting other people is how you hurt the Batman, right?
I'm thinking every important level of management, including the manufacturing, should be under investigation and public scrutiny, so Wayne will get looked at hard for... whatever the hell he supposedly does at the company.

Lucius Fox would be perfect in that regard. Something goes wrong, someone signed the wrong paper, and next thing you know a class-action lawsuit is aimed at Wayne Enterprises and Lucius is going to take the fall.

It'd be ultra-nice to have Arkham as the final level. Just like in a Megaman game, you have to subdue all your old bosses in the same level. Think Rogue War in The Flash. Just complete and utter chaos as you try to manage the crisis and work your way through to the final boss.

 

[Hunter Rider]

IRON MAN

My idea for Iron Man would start with Tony Stark in the first Gulf War as a young man of 20
We would see him and a team preparing for a night-raid on a small village where a weapons deal was being brokered
Tony shows the team how to use the new nightvision goggles he has invented as they prepare strategy(Scene would show Tony as a leader of men and also his scientific inventive side)
The next sequence would be a big action beat,when the soldiers raid the village they take out the enemy systematically and effectively using the superior tech they have but Tony is shot and a piece of shrapnel lodges next to his heart,the scene would end with Tony falling to the floor clutching his chest

Back in the US we would see Tony undergo and operation to implant a device similar to a pacemaker into his chest to help his heart cope when the shrapnel moves into it
From here we would see Tony assuming the role of head of Stark industries,he is contacted by the military to ask if he would be interested in designing body armour for the field,this is where he designs the Iron Man armour
Also competing for the contract is Justin Hammer and Tony gets his first taste of action during the tests of the armour(he tests it alone obviously but his labs are full of workers) when Hammer sends a team in to sabotage Tony's efforts,

In this scene Stark industries comes under attack from hired mercenaries and Iron Man makes his first appearance as Tony dons the prototype suit in an effort to save his employee's
Of course he succeeds and Iron Man makes the 6 O'clock news,and Tony makes up the Story that Iron Man is an employee of his
From here Tony decides to find out if Hammer was behind the raid on his labs,he modifies the suit into stealth armour and breaks into Hammer industries HQ,during this sequence we see some of the cool tech that the stealth suit has in order to evade the various security measures installed at Hammer industries

What Tony finds is a that Hammer has done a deal with ex KGB agent Valentin Shatalov in which he will take the defense department cash and produce inferior armour while using the money he is paid to make superior armour for Shatalov's splinter mercenary group for a huge price double that the US was offering
Stark takes the data disks he has found and leaves them at the defense department HQ,Hammer is subsequently arrested
We then see Shatlov receive a call in a darkened room that the plan is screwed and that Stark has gotten the contract, he slams the phone down and goes into a rage before telling one of his men to ready the prototype

The next scene shows Tony about to perform a field test of a lesser version of his IM armour he has created for the military
The soldiers dress in the battle armour and prepare to go through the assault course of weapons and fire set up by Tony and his team at the base when suddenly from the sky appears a red shape,as it gets clearer eyes widen and suddenly Crimson Dynamo is upon them firing out blaster shots from his armour.destruction follows as Dynamo rampages through the base,Tony makes his exit to get to his Amrour,we see Crimson take down two Apache choppers sent up to stop him before Iron Man arrives and an enormous fight brakes out all across the base with each man using all their armour's tech and strength to gain the upper hand.
Eventually Iron Man overcomes Crimson and he is taken into custody,Tony surveys the damage both men have caused in these powerful armours and feels both anger and frustration that armour of any power is just to dangerous to be allowed into any form of production

The last scene we see is a depressed Tony making the call that finalises the fact he won't be making Armour for the defense department,he slams down the phone and sits depressed in his office as the rain rolls down the windows,he opens the draw in his desk and in it is a bottle of Jack Daniels,he takes it out and has a drink,then goes to the window and stares out into the city

The End

 

[Sava]

IRON MAN

My idea for Iron Man would start with Tony Stark in the first Gulf War as a young man of 20
We would see him and a team preparing for a night-raid on a small village where a weapons deal was being brokered
Tony shows the team how to use the new nightvision goggles he has invented as they prepare strategy(Scene would show Tony as a leader of men and also his scientific inventive side)
The next sequence would be a big action beat,when the soldiers raid the village they take out the enemy systematically and effectively using the superior tech they have but Tony is shot and a piece of shrapnel lodges next to his heart,the scene would end with Tony falling to the floor clutching his chest

Back in the US we would see Tony undergo and operation to implant a device similar to a pacemaker into his chest to help his heart cope when the shrapnel moves into it
From here we would see Tony assuming the role of head of Stark industries,he is contacted by the military to ask if he would be interested in designing body armour for the field,this is where he designs the Iron Man armour
Also competing for the contract is Justin Hammer and Tony gets his first taste of action during the tests of the armour(he tests it alone obviously but his labs are full of workers) when Hammer sends a team in to sabotage Tony's efforts,

In this scene Stark industries comes under attack from hired mercenaries and Iron Man makes his first appearance as Tony dons the prototype suit in an effort to save his employee's
Of course he succeeds and Iron Man makes the 6 O'clock news,and Tony makes up the Story that Iron Man is an employee of his
From here Tony decides to find out if Hammer was behind the raid on his labs,he modifies the suit into stealth armour and breaks into Hammer industries HQ,during this sequence we see some of the cool tech that the stealth suit has in order to evade the various security measures installed at Hammer industries

What Tony finds is a that Hammer has done a deal with ex KGB agent Valentin Shatalov in which he will take the defense department cash and produce inferior armour while using the money he is paid to make superior armour for Shatalov's splinter mercenary group for a huge price double that the US was offering
Stark takes the data disks he has found and leaves them at the defense department HQ,Hammer is subsequently arrested
We then see Shatlov receive a call in a darkened room that the plan is screwed and that Stark has gotten the contract, he slams the phone down and goes into a rage before telling one of his men to ready the prototype

The next scene shows Tony about to perform a field test of a lesser version of his IM armour he has created for the military
The soldiers dress in the battle armour and prepare to go through the assault course of weapons and fire set up by Tony and his team at the base when suddenly from the sky appears a red shape,as it gets clearer eyes widen and suddenly Crimson Dynamo is upon them firing out blaster shots from his armour.destruction follows as Dynamo rampages through the base,Tony makes his exit to get to his Amrour,we see Crimson take down two Apache choppers sent up to stop him before Iron Man arrives and an enormous fight brakes out all across the base with each man using all their armour's tech and strength to gain the upper hand.
Eventually Iron Man overcomes Crimson and he is taken into custody,Tony surveys the damage both men have caused in these powerful armours and feels both anger and frustration that armour of any power is just to dangerous to be allowed into any form of production

The last scene we see is a depressed Tony making the call that finalises the fact he won't be making Armour for the defense department,he slams down the phone and sits depressed in his office as the rain rolls down the windows,he opens the draw in his desk and in it is a bottle of Jack Daniels,he takes it out and has a drink,then goes to the window and stares out into the city

The End

... nice

 

[Herr Logan]

Definately, I meant to imply that Wayne would catch some flak as in 'these are your people' or 'Wayne, you were responsible this line'. It does need to be clear that he's not hands-on. I wanted to tie Wayne to the product failure as you would hold an high-level executive responsible for his underlying departments. We would need to flush out his role though. Outside of his last name, his ties to the company seem to vary. I imagine we would encounter that issue while fully developing the plot.

Lucius Fox would be perfect in that regard. Something goes wrong, someone signed the wrong paper, and next thing you know a class-action lawsuit is aimed at Wayne Enterprises and Lucius is going to take the fall.

Exactly!

It'd be ultra-nice to have Arkham as the final level. Just like in a Megaman game, you have to subdue all your old bosses in the same level. Think Rogue War in The Flash. Just complete and utter chaos as you try to manage the crisis and work your way through to the final boss.

Hmm... Arkham would have to be visited several times throughout the game, regardless of the final chapter's focus point, and I'd really prefer that the big jailbreak happen somewhere around the middle so that the Batman does have to recapture his enemies in the second half on top of everything else he has to deal with, but I can totally see a second riot breaking out (that the Batman is more ready to deal with, since he has a few extra toys, the player has experience with that scenario, and the main rogues would somehow stay locked up while someone releases the general population all at once and stirs them into a frenzy again), but the context is still contingent on the plot. What does everyone think? Should the final chapter take place at Arkham Asylum?

 

[Herr Logan]

IRON MAN

My idea for Iron Man would start with Tony Stark in the first Gulf War as a young man of 20
We would see him and a team preparing for a night-raid on a small village where a weapons deal was being brokered
Tony shows the team how to use the new nightvision goggles he has invented as they prepare strategy(Scene would show Tony as a leader of men and also his scientific inventive side)
The next sequence would be a big action beat,when the soldiers raid the village they take out the enemy systematically and effectively using the superior tech they have but Tony is shot and a piece of shrapnel lodges next to his heart,the scene would end with Tony falling to the floor clutching his chest

Back in the US we would see Tony undergo and operation to implant a device similar to a pacemaker into his chest to help his heart cope when the shrapnel moves into it
From here we would see Tony assuming the role of head of Stark industries,he is contacted by the military to ask if he would be interested in designing body armour for the field,this is where he designs the Iron Man armour
Also competing for the contract is Justin Hammer and Tony gets his first taste of action during the tests of the armour(he tests it alone obviously but his labs are full of workers) when Hammer sends a team in to sabotage Tony's efforts,

In this scene Stark industries comes under attack from hired mercenaries and Iron Man makes his first appearance as Tony dons the prototype suit in an effort to save his employee's
Of course he succeeds and Iron Man makes the 6 O'clock news,and Tony makes up the Story that Iron Man is an employee of his
From here Tony decides to find out if Hammer was behind the raid on his labs,he modifies the suit into stealth armour and breaks into Hammer industries HQ,during this sequence we see some of the cool tech that the stealth suit has in order to evade the various security measures installed at Hammer industries

What Tony finds is a that Hammer has done a deal with ex KGB agent Valentin Shatalov in which he will take the defense department cash and produce inferior armour while using the money he is paid to make superior armour for Shatalov's splinter mercenary group for a huge price double that the US was offering
Stark takes the data disks he has found and leaves them at the defense department HQ,Hammer is subsequently arrested
We then see Shatlov receive a call in a darkened room that the plan is screwed and that Stark has gotten the contract, he slams the phone down and goes into a rage before telling one of his men to ready the prototype

The next scene shows Tony about to perform a field test of a lesser version of his IM armour he has created for the military
The soldiers dress in the battle armour and prepare to go through the assault course of weapons and fire set up by Tony and his team at the base when suddenly from the sky appears a red shape,as it gets clearer eyes widen and suddenly Crimson Dynamo is upon them firing out blaster shots from his armour.destruction follows as Dynamo rampages through the base,Tony makes his exit to get to his Amrour,we see Crimson take down two Apache choppers sent up to stop him before Iron Man arrives and an enormous fight brakes out all across the base with each man using all their armour's tech and strength to gain the upper hand.
Eventually Iron Man overcomes Crimson and he is taken into custody,Tony surveys the damage both men have caused in these powerful armours and feels both anger and frustration that armour of any power is just to dangerous to be allowed into any form of production

The last scene we see is a depressed Tony making the call that finalises the fact he won't be making Armour for the defense department,he slams down the phone and sits depressed in his office as the rain rolls down the windows,he opens the draw in his desk and in it is a bottle of Jack Daniels,he takes it out and has a drink,then goes to the window and stares out into the city

The End

The hell? Where's Tony's father? Shouldn't he be the main villain here? Will you at least make the faceplate transparent so that the actor's face can be seen at all times?
Dammit, Hunter, why don't you have any artistic vision like Avi Arad does?!



This sounds really, really cool, Hunter. I'm not a huge Iron Man fan, so I don't have too much to say on the subject, but I think this is great as a proposal. I think the ending could be a bit more... not "cheery," but maybe more hopeful. At the every least, hopeful in terms of "there might be a sequel."

I assume that his early or most popular supporting cast from the comics will fill out the rest of the characters. There should also be at least one scene where Iron Man and Tony Stark appear in public (preferably on nationally-aired television) together, with the suit either "driving" itself or being supported by a robot structure with pre-programmed maneuvers and a few pre-recorded comments.

Great job, Hunter! Thanks for posting.

 

[Mister J]

Hmm... Arkham would have to be visited several times throughout the game, regardless of the final chapter's focus point, and I'd really prefer that the big jailbreak happen somewhere around the middle so that the Batman does have to recapture his enemies in the second half on top of everything else he has to deal with, but I can totally see a second riot breaking out (that the Batman is more ready to deal with, since he has a few extra toys, the player has experience with that scenario, and the main rogues would somehow stay locked up while someone releases the general population all at once and stirs them into a frenzy again), but the context is still contingent on the plot. What does everyone think? Should the final chapter take place at Arkham Asylum?

Arkham needs several visits throughout the course of the game. However they don't all need to be related to action. Batman could go attempt to gather information from a few rogues. Now, this isn't something to be taken as novelty. It'd be quite conceivable to approach a certain villain and to be told to go to hell. However, utilizing the proper resources could point you toward a criminal who would prove useful. The Batman would need to make the right call to elicit what he wants.

Arkham should definitely be near, if not serve as the end level. It's dicey to say because we haven't fully flushed out the whole story. Maybe a confrontation with the lead antagonist, with Arkham serving as a backdrop. A second riot/jailbreak occurs late in the game as Batman is putting the final pieces of the puzzle together. He knows who's behind it all, when he becomes aware of the disturbance at the asylum. Despite the fact that the police are still after him, Batman has sworn to protect Gotham. He must go help quell things at Arkham. When some semblance of order is restored, the police have grudgingly called off the manhunt. Speaking with a police official, Batman reveals the true nature of his framing. Without revealing all, he makes his way to confront his awaiting enemy. There, in the shadows of structure housing his most dangerous adversaries, the Dark Knight Detective faces the mastermind of this epic endeavor.


Now that scenario is off the top of my head. It’s a bit streamlined and oversimplified as well. Depending how the story plays, it may make no sense at all for the final villain to be anywhere near Arkham. You wouldn't be it to be clichéd. However, there is something very powerful about the game ending there. It's absolutely doable.

 

[Mister J]

IRON MAN

My idea for Iron Man would start with Tony Stark in the first Gulf War as a young man of 20
We would see him and a team preparing for a night-raid on a small village where a weapons deal was being brokered
Tony shows the team how to use the new nightvision goggles he has invented as they prepare strategy(Scene would show Tony as a leader of men and also his scientific inventive side)
The next sequence would be a big action beat,when the soldiers raid the village they take out the enemy systematically and effectively using the superior tech they have but Tony is shot and a piece of shrapnel lodges next to his heart,the scene would end with Tony falling to the floor clutching his chest

Back in the US we would see Tony undergo and operation to implant a device similar to a pacemaker into his chest to help his heart cope when the shrapnel moves into it
From here we would see Tony assuming the role of head of Stark industries,he is contacted by the military to ask if he would be interested in designing body armour for the field,this is where he designs the Iron Man armour
Also competing for the contract is Justin Hammer and Tony gets his first taste of action during the tests of the armour(he tests it alone obviously but his labs are full of workers) when Hammer sends a team in to sabotage Tony's efforts,

In this scene Stark industries comes under attack from hired mercenaries and Iron Man makes his first appearance as Tony dons the prototype suit in an effort to save his employee's
Of course he succeeds and Iron Man makes the 6 O'clock news,and Tony makes up the Story that Iron Man is an employee of his
From here Tony decides to find out if Hammer was behind the raid on his labs,he modifies the suit into stealth armour and breaks into Hammer industries HQ,during this sequence we see some of the cool tech that the stealth suit has in order to evade the various security measures installed at Hammer industries

What Tony finds is a that Hammer has done a deal with ex KGB agent Valentin Shatalov in which he will take the defense department cash and produce inferior armour while using the money he is paid to make superior armour for Shatalov's splinter mercenary group for a huge price double that the US was offering
Stark takes the data disks he has found and leaves them at the defense department HQ,Hammer is subsequently arrested
We then see Shatlov receive a call in a darkened room that the plan is screwed and that Stark has gotten the contract, he slams the phone down and goes into a rage before telling one of his men to ready the prototype

The next scene shows Tony about to perform a field test of a lesser version of his IM armour he has created for the military
The soldiers dress in the battle armour and prepare to go through the assault course of weapons and fire set up by Tony and his team at the base when suddenly from the sky appears a red shape,as it gets clearer eyes widen and suddenly Crimson Dynamo is upon them firing out blaster shots from his armour.destruction follows as Dynamo rampages through the base,Tony makes his exit to get to his Amrour,we see Crimson take down two Apache choppers sent up to stop him before Iron Man arrives and an enormous fight brakes out all across the base with each man using all their armour's tech and strength to gain the upper hand.
Eventually Iron Man overcomes Crimson and he is taken into custody,Tony surveys the damage both men have caused in these powerful armours and feels both anger and frustration that armour of any power is just to dangerous to be allowed into any form of production

The last scene we see is a depressed Tony making the call that finalises the fact he won't be making Armour for the defense department,he slams down the phone and sits depressed in his office as the rain rolls down the windows,he opens the draw in his desk and in it is a bottle of Jack Daniels,he takes it out and has a drink,then goes to the window and stares out into the city

The End

Nice work, Hunter. There's only one real problem...I didn't come up with this.

I like how you left the image of Tony's alcoholism at the end. It wouldn't be pronounced, but there's a hint that this is how Tony copes with varied pressures. Myabe after a couple of drinks, we see Tony growing more frustrated in regards to having to stop the production of the armor (people have proven not trustful). As his anger reaches a crescendo, Iron Man is needed. Tony quickly composes himself and goes to retrieve the amor. There is a sense of calm and confidence as Tony sees his reflection in the Iron Man suit.

Or not, I don't know.

Again, excellent work Mr. Rider.

 

[Zev]

You know, you could make a pretty damn good "true crime" movie (think Blow or Lord of War. Or, reaching further back, Scarface or Casino) based on Deathstroke. Hell, you wouldn't even have to make much up. Just use the basic details.

Served in the army, met Wintergreen (who, if you read the comics, is obviously totally gay for him. I'm serious) and his future wife Adeline. Secret experiment gave him nine times the brain power of normal men (I know, I know, the comics says he uses 90% of his brain as opposed to the usual ten, but that's just pseudoscience and so hearing it is, to someone literate in such things, kinda like listening to a speech on national defense from... oh no, I'm not going there). He retired and had three lovely children. Of the "rise and fall of Deathstroke," this would be the "rise."

And when I say retired, I mean "quit the army to become a highly-paid mercenary thrillseeker". And when I say lovely, I mean "future psychotic villains." And when I say children, I mean... children.

One of his targets kidnaps his youngest son, Joey, and demands to know who Deathstroke's employer is. Slade refuses on account of his personal honor. In his arrogance, he thinks he's fast enough to take the guy down. He's not. Joey loses his voice. Slade loses his wife. He also loses an eye due to wife.

Pick up years later. Slade's got that cool white hair thing going for him, with the eyepatch and the goatee and everything. Slade claims his other son Grant's body at the morgue. Grant was killed (accidentally, of course) while taking out a contract on the Teen Titans. This serves as a bridge to our introduction to our principal antagonist, Nightwing/Robin (with cameos from the Teen Titans). Once again, think Ethan Hawke's character in Lord of War or Javert in Les Miserables. Not helping the twisted ball of angst-wood that makes up the trunk of the Wilson family tree is the fact that Joey, not grown up and calling himself Jericho, has joined the Titans to hunt Slade down.

Work our way through the Judas Contract storyline (this is already streamlined enough for a movie, as Grant's employers, the HIVE, are the same guys who hired Deathstroke in this storyline). Deathstroke's love affair/creepy mentor thing with Terra. His defeat at the hands of Nightwing and Jericho. His last conversation with Beast Boy (for budgetary and plot reasons, he'll be the most prominent of the Teen Titans besides Dick Grayson. So when it comes time for Deathstroke to take out all the Titans but Nightwing one by one, we'll only be able to SEE Deathstroke and Terra clean house on poor Gar).

Climax: Joey turns evil (obviously, the whole Azarath thing is a bit too much to get into, so we'll just say he had a nervous breakdown or was corrupted by the HIVE or something) and kills Wintergreen. Slade has to team-up with Nightwing (TRES TENSION!) to take him down. He ends up killing his own son. Slade ends up alone, friendless... and completely turned to the Dark Side. Cue the end credits and "Deathstroke Will Return In..." whatever movie you want him to be the villain in.

Or, if you prefer, Deathstroke turns himself in... and ends up working for the Suicide Squad.

 

[Herr Logan]

What do you guys think of the ratings system for 'Dark Knight Detective'?

I realize that the stealth criterion for the Dark rating-- ratio of time unseen by enemies, police and civilians to total time in costume-- is not only simplistic and incomplete as stealth system, but is problematic if left in that wording. I would want there to be a full range of exceptions there, where it's perfectly fine to be seen by enemies, allies and civilians.
Some basic examples are these:

• If you're interacting or working with allies such as Alfred, Robin, the rest of the Bat-vigilante community, Commissioner Gordon and Dr. Leslie Thompson
• If you're in the the midst of battle
• If you're successfully using fear tactics on guilty people
• If it is necessary to come out where people can see you to save a life or stop an escaping enemy

There may be others, I'm sure.

The thing I would be most impressed with, if they made these proposed ideas a reality, is if there was a fully functional "style" evaluation that judged more than simply the variety of things you do (such as in the first Spider-Man movie game, which is an okay system to use for a fighting style evaluation), more based on the "theatricality". A lot of it I'm not sure how you would do it, but there should be a wide range of fear tactics you can implement at different times and in different ways. The timing of different gestures, and especially the timing and method of entrances and exits, would be a huge aspect that the player should make it a point to master. Included in that is the obligatory habit of appearing and disappearing unseen when it comes to cops and Jim Gordon especially. The one crappy thing about this would be that, in the moment, you wouldn't see it from the point of view of the person you were just talking to, like you can in comics and the animated series. However, I do have a couple of ideas regarding that, which I'll get to soon.

Another thing I probably didn't mention is that the player would not be playing as the Batman all the way through the game. For the vast majority of it, certainly, but there are other characters that might be fun to play for short periods of time. The first two I'd be adamant about are Robin and Alfred. Robin will do reconnaissance, investigate cases and combat enemies personally, just like the Batman while controlled by the player. He'll have a few different toys to play with, like those sticky-tangler thingies and the bo staff, and his physical abilities and range of moves will be significantly decreased from the Batman, as he's half the man's size and doesn't have the same level of training and obsession. Tim Drake is supposed to be the Robin with the highest potential for being the World's Greatest Detective, so he deserves a shot at the same action the Batman gets in the game. He also will fight alongside the Batman at various points in the game. There should probably be a training stage for team combat, as there should be a few teamwork maneuvers (straight from the comics, of course) that the Dynamic Duo can perform in the midst of the huge brawls they tend to get into. The majority of the gameplay will be the Batman by himself (although in radio contact with Alfred or Robin), but there should be a decent portion of teamwork throughout the game, since that is one of the Batman's greatest resources and constant methods.

Alfred Pennyworth is a former British government agent, master of disguise, and a decent battlefield medic. He's also quite spry for his age and has a few good moves on him. I'd make the player control Alfred several times in the game, one of those times being a mission to find a wounded and helpless Batman (via the tracking device in his boot heel), give him some quick first aid and get him back to the cave for further medical attention. This kind of mission should be an almost constant option for the player in the case that the Batman makes some progress he doesn't want to lose during a mission/case/fight but then is hurt to the point where he can't get back to any of his bases on his own power, but he can find himself a quiet spot to hide while Alfred retrieves him. This function could also be served by Robin, I suppose, but at least once in the game, Alfred will be required to rescue the Batman.
At several points in the game, the player would take Alfred's role and be reponsible for making up excuses for Bruce Wayne (with an option for the player to help the two players work out the details beforehand). It's basically another situation where you use psychology and manipulation to a degree.

I don't know if the player should commandeer Catwoman at any point, but she'll be a recurring character, working as an ally of the Batman.

Thoughts?

 

[Herr Logan]

You know, you could make a pretty damn good "true crime" movie (think Blow or Lord of War. Or, reaching further back, Scarface or Casino) based on Deathstroke. Hell, you wouldn't even have to make much up. Just use the basic details.

I know nothing about Deathstroke, so I'll have to defer to them's that do know. Sounds good to me in general, though. Thanks for posting.

 

[Herr Logan]

Arkham needs several visits throughout the course of the game. However they don't all need to be related to action. Batman could go attempt to gather information from a few rogues. Now, this isn't something to be taken as novelty. It'd be quite conceivable to approach a certain villain and to be told to go to hell. However, utilizing the proper resources could point you toward a criminal who would prove useful. The Batman would need to make the right call to elicit what he wants.

Oh, absolutely! I should have specified earlier that the primary reason the Batman would periodically visit Arkham is to get information, because that's honestly what I had in mind. Some of those visits would require stealth, exploring and lurking in addition to context-specific conversation skills, but most of the trips to Arkham wouldn't involve fighting.

I don't know if anyone here read the text novel from the JLA series 'Batman: The Stone King," but in that story, the Batman visited the Scarecrow at Arkham and bribed him for a fear gas formula. What did he bribe him with? A first-edition antique book, since Crane values books very, very highly. It had been sitting in Bruce's attic for many years, a present that was never opened. If this scenario hasn't been ruined by the fact that it happened in a novel (which probably wasn't read by a huge percentage of the target audience for this game), then I'd love to have that be one of the tasks you have to perform in the game. Basically, you'd be told in the Scarecrow's profile about his passion for books, and if you approach Crane outside of his cell at the asylum, you can use the first-person-view mode to scan the interior, thus noting which books he has. It might be a series of books by the same author, which would make it the easiest to make the connection between what you've got and what he might want, but in any case... shortly after a visit to the Scarecrow, the Batman-- or possibly Alfred-- will make a comment on Bruce's scattered childhood book collection and how some of the first edition gifts he received hadn't even been opened, since his parents died shortly after receiving them. Those books are in the attic. A good detective player will go take a look-see and make the connection if reading over his options on how to proceed and the recent notes taken in the Case Log and Criminal Database.

Arkham should definitely be near, if not serve as the end level. It's dicey to say because we haven't fully flushed out the whole story. Maybe a confrontation with the lead antagonist, with Arkham serving as a backdrop. A second riot/jailbreak occurs late in the game as Batman is putting the final pieces of the puzzle together. He knows who's behind it all, when he becomes aware of the disturbance at the asylum. Despite the fact that the police are still after him, Batman has sworn to protect Gotham. He must go help quell things at Arkham. When some semblance of order is restored, the police have grudgingly called off the manhunt. Speaking with a police official, Batman reveals the true nature of his framing. Without revealing all, he makes his way to confront his awaiting enemy. There, in the shadows of structure housing his most dangerous adversaries, the Dark Knight Detective faces the mastermind of this epic endeavor.

Now that scenario is off the top of my head. It’s a bit streamlined and oversimplified as well. Depending how the story plays, it may make no sense at all for the final villain to be anywhere near Arkham. You wouldn't be it to be clichéd. However, there is something very powerful about the game ending there. It's absolutely doable.

That sounds like a terrific concept to shoot for. Kudos to you, Zev and Mister J.


Here's something I meant to mention earlier:

First, let me clear something up real quick. The whole enter/exit dynamic with cops, enemies and assorted other people you visit abruptly would have a structured system for when you should make your move (especially for the exits, as it has to be when the person or persons are looking somewhere other than at you after having seen you already). Successful exit/entrances will grant much Dark credit, and each time it should be available later for an alternate perspective movie you can watch. It'd be just like the animated series, where the camera is on the person who's in the middle of a sentence, and then when that person looks back at where the Batman was standing, he's gone! Cool, huh? There should be movie-replay moments for all the cool stuff that you do in the game.

Wait... what if... no, that'd be too awesome. It's inhuman! What if there was an option to, at several points in the game, watch your progress up to that point play out like it was one big movie? Every time you die and have to start from a checkpoint, that get's smoothed over like it didn't happen (as would all visits to the menu and anything else that would take you "out of the movie"), although if you get wounded and have an ally rescue you rather than start over from a checkpoint, that gets factored into the "movie." Since I already know it's possible to have alternate, cinematic camera angles ('GTA: Vice City' had it), that should also be an option available, and it should be automatically utilized whenever the Batman has done something especially stylish or impressive. Would that not be unspeakably cool? Of course you should have free reign over what you sit through during this, with DVD functions like rewind, forward, slow-motion, skip scene, etc. What say ye, oh faithful ones?

 

[Zev]

I think the movie thing might be a little too impossible without going into the realm of science-fiction. Think about, say, the previouslies on 24. You need a human cinematrographer (I could NOT have spelled that right) and editor and composer to make everything flow together. Now, a short "recap" of the cutscenes (*Joker says something* to *Batman does something* to *cliffhanger*) might be possible, but actually making a little mini-movie out of the player's actions would be impossible unless the X-Box 360 has a positronic brain built into it.

However, you could do something like Crimson Skies and have the game "replay" some of your more sterling moments (actions rated high in the high score system) from "cinematic" angles. Kinda like "Remember when you did this? SO COOL!" to get the player amped up for going into action.

I don't think a break-out in the middle of the game could work. Capturing criminals is fun, RECAPTURING criminals is repetitive. You want new challenges and new levels, not reheated "Oh, the Joker's on the loose again. Ho-hom." But it'd be cool to have the final level be the Asylum break-out, since 1) the visits to Arkham for interrogations and such would build up to it and 2) you'd have a chance to show how far you'd come by taking out criminals who were a real menace to you when you were starting out, like Scarface and Cluemaster, within seconds with your leet skills and psychological insights. Something like Scarecrow jumps out at you, you smoothly disarm him and gas him with his own fear gas, then move on.

 

[Zev]

Oh, and I vote the master villain be Red Hood. Because you said you don't want to use Ra's Al Ghul and Hush is... let's face it, Hush is a weiner. There, I said it and I'm glad I said it! We all know it, I was just the first to say it!

 

[Mister J]

The concept of movie playback/moments reminds me of some of the James Bond game series, particularly Everything or Nothing (since it's the only one I own ). Accomplishing certain feats of stealth or theatricality would trigger the ability to save varied camera angles of that sequence. You'd be able to string enough of these sequences together and watch them in playback form. That might even be automatic.

Good idea Zev about Batman's prior encounters allowing him to dispatch villains more quickly. I imagine it working along the lines of an particular attribute increases that shine through when confronted; 'leveling up', so to speak. At any rate, it definately gives the player a sense of accomplishment and progress.

In trying to give the Arkham encounters some variety, you could have different villains escape. It doesn't need to be all full-scale breakout. You could even go as far as having one breakout (and having to capture certain villains) and then late in the game, Batman has to go quell a riot where the inmates are literally trying to run the asylum. Countering the riot would pit Batman against several villains while trying to re-establish order.

 

[Herr Logan]

I think the movie thing might be a little too impossible without going into the realm of science-fiction. Think about, say, the previouslies on 24. You need a human cinematrographer (I could NOT have spelled that right) and editor and composer to make everything flow together. Now, a short "recap" of the cutscenes (*Joker says something* to *Batman does something* to *cliffhanger*) might be possible, but actually making a little mini-movie out of the player's actions would be impossible unless the X-Box 360 has a positronic brain built into it.

However, you could do something like Crimson Skies and have the game "replay" some of your more sterling moments (actions rated high in the high score system) from "cinematic" angles. Kinda like "Remember when you did this? SO COOL!" to get the player amped up for going into action.

By the time this game would be anywhere close to ready for production, the technology needed to string the whole thing together would certainly be usable. The only thing that would be a stretch would be the music. The ability to view the player character from various cinematic angles was put into games years ago. I'm not at all knowledgable about programming or technical stuff, but I know what I've seen in action. The only thing that would be a real problem would be the music, if that would even be a problem. If the music stopped when the player accessed menus and went into "Bat-sense" mode (or maybe slowed down in synch with this mode), then that might not even be a problem. You likely wouldn't have a piece of music open and then run until completion through most of the scenes, but that's not really a problem.

I think it definitely could work.

I don't think a break-out in the middle of the game could work. Capturing criminals is fun, RECAPTURING criminals is repetitive. You want new challenges and new levels, not reheated "Oh, the Joker's on the loose again. Ho-hom." But it'd be cool to have the final level be the Asylum break-out, since 1) the visits to Arkham for interrogations and such would build up to it and 2) you'd have a chance to show how far you'd come by taking out criminals who were a real menace to you when you were starting out, like Scarface and Cluemaster, within seconds with your leet skills and psychological insights. Something like Scarecrow jumps out at you, you smoothly disarm him and gas him with his own fear gas, then move on.

The point is that the villains that you recapture would present new challenges and missions, to varying degrees of difficulty. Each one would either be easier to capture because the player would be acclimated to the Batman's capabilities and methods as well as the villains', or more difficult because particular villains have devised a new scheme or made completely new hideouts. I don't want it to be one big string of hand-to-hand fights with various rogues. That cheapens the villains, as well as the range of abilities the Batman would have at his disposal. A lot of them aren't a real match for the Batman, hand to hand, and there's more that can be done with them than simply line them up to get beat up.

For example, the first hunt for Scarface would last a good long while. It would be a long-term, old-school, OC conspiracy criminal investigation (although it wouldn't be old-school for a video game, since this hasn't been done yet in such detail as far as I know). Each time you find a few of his thugs, there's a good chance there's a-gonna be a fight, and then when you finally track down the man himself (let's assume he isn't hiding out in a manniquin factory or something that obvious, although the player would be strongly directed to check out every location on the map like this in the meantime), there would be a huge brawl that would probably require Robin's help. After that huge workout of the Batman's brains and muscle (all the while hearing Scarface's voice shouting over a loudspeaker), you find your target and knock the gun out of the little puppet's hand (or the puppet out of the Ventriloquist's hand, since the gun is probably attached to Scarface), give Scarface a splinter-pile makeover and re-introduce Mr. Wesker to Mr. Hardfloor. Arnie resumes his court-imposed extended vacation, minus one finely-crafted and scarred partner in crime. Plunge into the next redball case (which had already been solidifying even as you worked the last one) wholeheartedly and keep going until all your hard-earned captives get released from their cozy cuckoo's nest.

The second time you pursue Scarface, it's a relatively straightforward and short-term chase through the woods near Arkham Asylum. Can you imagine hunting a ventriloquist through a forest at night? Even with night-vision goggles and a flashlight (which you wouldn't want to use simultaneously at any point in the game), it's gonna be thick cover on uneven terrain, and that cheerful little voice will be taunting you from all directions. Throw in stray lunatics wandering around in the same forest, some of which will attack (I don't want the inmates of Arkham all to act the same way, because A.I. technology and competent writers can offer us so much better than that), and you've got a scenario that would hardly be repetitive.

In the same fashion, the other escaped villains would be taking a different route. The ones who had a long-term racket going before they got caught would have a relatively short term on the outside, acting in desperation and more impulsiveness. Some of the ones who were just goofing around (in a violent, horrific and generally inappropriate fashion, of course) before joining their housemates at Arkham will emerge with organized and focused plans, keeping ahead of the Batman for quite a bit longer than Scarface did on his second time around. Almost as if someone hooked them up with ideas or resources while they were on the inside, maybe? Like I said, a balance must be maintained. A balance of action and methodical progression, personal interactions and skulking through the dark all alone, staying invisible and flapping your wings like a demon from a nightmare. Facing the same foes twice only needs to be repetative is that's how it's written.

Please, please, please... someone talk to me about the Scarface idea. I just came up with that while reading Zev's post, and I think that would be the one of the coolest things ever. I'd also love to hear complementary ideas for villain plots in Act One (pre-jailbreak) and Act Two (post-jailbreak).

Oh, and I vote the master villain be Red Hood. Because you said you don't want to use Ra's Al Ghul and Hush is... let's face it, Hush is a weiner. There, I said it and I'm glad I said it! We all know it, I was just the first to say it!

I didn't say I don't want to use R'as Al Ghul. I just didn't want him to be the top dog in the conspiracy. What better opportunity to trot out and use the Batplane than to have the Batman fly out to Asia to pay R'as a friendly visit? Not all the way across an ocean, of course, but within a certain area.

I'm still on the fence about Hush being in the game at all, though. I think there's a place for medicine-based story elements here, and red herrings are a definite plus in a game like this. On the other hand... he is a bit of a weiner.

You know, I briefly considered the Red Hood, actually. I didn't stop because I decided against it (or at least I think that's the case)... probably I just got distracted. Anyway, I think that's a valid option, and although I'm on the fence about it. Any further ideas on that, from anyone, would be welcome.

Thanks a lot for commenting, Zev.