Secrets Of The Amazon: The Wonder Woman SPOILER Thread - Part 1

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]529511[/split]

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Since release is around the corner this is the thread to talk about the details from early screenings and reactions.

 

[moviefreak]

Did anyone checked what Eugene Brave Rock's Chief said to Wonder Woman? I knew that he was speaking in his native language, so went to check online later --it's marvelous, he was speaking in Blackfoot tongue:

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/06/04/representation-matters-chief-wonder-woman-awesome/#comment-anchor

The character of Chief is played by Native American actor Eugene Brave Rock, and he’s a great addition to the team. In a powerful scene where Diana asks him why he isn’t fighting on either side of the war, Chief replies that he doesn’t have anything left to fight for. When Diana asks about it, he says that Steve’s people (the white man) took it all from him. That is a great little detail; but according to a review of the movie on Indian Country Today by Vincent Schilling, there was another awesome little detail that I, as a white woman, did not notice – and that most people won’t notice:

“What I didn’t expect was to be overcome with emotion when Eugene Brave Rock’s character ‘Chief’ met Wonder Woman, who was spectacularly portrayed by Gal Gadot. Why? His first words to her were in Blackfoot. Even better, he introduced himself as Napi, the Blackfoot demi-god who is known as a trickster and a storyteller.”

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

Diana states that she speaks many languages but I didn't catch in the film if she good speak native American languages.

 

[Slade W]

When Diana spoke to Steve about how important promises were, it made me think of the WW story, The Hiketeia.

Also, I wonder will they use Steve for flashback scenes in future movies, perhaps showing us conversations they had off-screen.

 

[Lily Adler]

So I actually agree with some other reviewers who appreciated that they didn't go into Eowyn vs The Witch King territory in the No Man's Land scene. When Steve tells Diana what exactly No Man's Land is, she easily could have said something cheesy like "I'm no man", but we got something very understated and got the point across.

 

[Dark Raven]

More comparisons with Disney:

Wonder Woman is More Like a Disney Princess Story Than a Superhero Movie, And That's a Good Thing

http://www.slashfilm.com/wonder-woman-spoiler-review/

And

Box Office: 'Wonder Woman' Wins Again With Huge $16M Friday

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottm...wins-again-with-huge-16m-friday/#3ecc5ce21d3e

An excerpt from the article:

The Gal Gadot/Patty Jenkins comic book superhero movie has now earned a whopping $163.623 million in eight days of North American play. And with a $190m overseas cume as of yesterday, it has earned a whopping $354m worldwide thus far. This sets the stage for an obscene $54m second weekend in North America, a drop of just 47% (a smaller second-weekend drop than The Avengers and Iron Man) and a $202m ten-day total. Depending on tomorrow�s estimates (and the final weekend figure), that�ll be one of the nine or ten-smallest second-weekend drops ever for a $100m+ opener.

And the rest of the pack, aside from holiday-enhanced Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire and Star Wars: The Force Awakens (and Spider-Man) are all animated films or Disney live-action fairy tale movies. Heck, even Beauty and the Beast dropped 48% in its second weekend. Point being, it's not playing like a comic book superhero movie or a fan-driven franchise title. It's playing like an animated feature and/or a Disney live-action fairy tale. The only question is whether it's Cinderella (2.9x its opening weekend) or Maleficent (3.5x its opening). For reference, Maleficent fell 50% on its second weekend on this frame back in 2014.

Wonder Woman earned $46 million over its first four weekdays and still had a smaller-than-usual drop for this sort of mega-bucks tentpole offering. The film made $103m in its first weekend and now will make around $100m over the following seven days, which is crazy good. Forget superhero movies, this one is playing (at this early juncture) like a kid-powered animated movie. It's holding better than The Secret Life of Pets.

I've said before that WW is a bit like a Disney film. There are many similarities: a beautiful princess of an exotic country leaving her homeland on a huge quest with a charming hero in tow. And the princess finds herself a fish out of water.

There are also similarities with the Little Mermaid, Pocahontas and Frozen among others (some of which are listed in that first article).

WW is probably the most Disney-ish superhero movie which even feels like a fairy tale, even though it's not even made by Disney. Perhaps that's why it appeals to so many people because it manages to tap into the things that people like while having something relevant to say at this particular time.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Lauren Montgomery who worked on the Wonder Woman DTV from 2009 has always admitted to the influence of Disney on her style and work and if you look at the design and story choices in that 2009 film you can really see the Disney influence, especially the Disney of the post LITTLE MERMAID era. I always refer to that 2009 film as the most kickass Disney Princess film that Disney didn't make.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

So I actually agree with some other reviewers who appreciated that they didn't go into Eowyn vs The Witch King territory in the No Man's Land scene. When Steve tells Diana what exactly No Man's Land is, she easily could have said something cheesy like "I'm no man", but we got something very understated and got the point across.

I was actually waiting for that line to come but wasn't pleasantly surprised when it didn't.

 

[terry78]

It's sad that I was sitting there thinking how predictable I knew it was gonna be.

 

[2kt09]

It's sad that I was sitting there thinking how predictable I knew it was gonna be.

 

[Flemm]

So I actually agree with some other reviewers who appreciated that they didn't go into Eowyn vs The Witch King territory in the No Man's Land scene. When Steve tells Diana what exactly No Man's Land is, she easily could have said something cheesy like "I'm no man", but we got something very understated and got the point across.

In addition to allowing the gender aspect to go unstated, which I agree was certainly the right choice, I thought the film did an excellent job of building up to that moment.

For example, the way Diana is constantly being covered up when she first arrives in London, and then the two scenes where she scandalously appears in an all-male meeting. On the second occasion, she denounces the cowardice of the military leaders who show little regard for individual lives lost, which really sets the stage for what happens in No Man's Land.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

More comparisons with Disney:

Wonder Woman is More Like a Disney Princess Story Than a Superhero Movie, And That's a Good Thing

http://www.slashfilm.com/wonder-woman-spoiler-review/

And

Box Office: 'Wonder Woman' Wins Again With Huge $16M Friday

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottm...wins-again-with-huge-16m-friday/#3ecc5ce21d3e

An excerpt from the article:



I've said before that WW is a bit like a Disney film. There are many similarities: a beautiful princess of an exotic country leaving her homeland on a huge quest with a charming hero in tow. And the princess finds herself a fish out of water.

There are also similarities with the Little Mermaid, Pocahontas and Frozen among others (some of which are listed in that first article).

WW is probably the most Disney-ish superhero movie which even feels like a fairy tale, even though it's not even made by Disney. Perhaps that's why it appeals to so many people because it manages to tap into the things that people like while having something relevant to say at this particular time.

I agree, but I think it has what many Disney movies have as well..heart. Tangled and Big Hero 6 have a lot of heart to them, and I think that's what audiences are drawn to. Even if you don't like the movie, you'll have to admit it was carefully crafted in terms of soulfulness.

 

[Dark Raven]

Audiences like Disney movies and fairy tales. But a lot of these have a female protagonist. So how can Hollywood think that films with a female protagonist won't be as successful? Yes, some of these Disney movies are animated but they could just as easily have been live action and would've worked just as well.

I hope WW opens the way for more female heroes.

WW is a bit like Tangled too with the relationship between Diana and Steve a bit like Rapunzel and Flynn Rider.

 

[Thome216]

So I actually agree with some other reviewers who appreciated that they didn't go into Eowyn vs The Witch King territory in the No Man's Land scene. When Steve tells Diana what exactly No Man's Land is, she easily could have said something cheesy like "I'm no man", but we got something very understated and got the point across.

We got something better from that. Not, 'I'm woman, hear me roar.' We got, 'I am Diana and I am going to do it!' It was very personal and in no way genderized.

 

[Thome216]

Audiences like Disney movies and fairy tales. But a lot of these have a female protagonist. So how can Hollywood think that films with a female protagonist won't be as successful? Yes, some of these Disney movies are animated but they could just as easily have been live action and would've worked just as well.

I hope WW opens the way for more female heroes.

WW is a bit like Tangled too with the relationship between Diana and Steve a bit like Rapunzel and Flynn Rider.

I hope so. I love me some heroines!t:

 

[2kt09]

Yes, some of these Disney movies are animated but they could just as easily have been live action and would've worked just as well.

Yeah...don't remind me.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Actually I think that the film, despite being about the biggest female comic book protagonist of them all, does kind of shy away from addressing feminism or sexism head on. And... I think that is an indication about the feeling among WB folk that this had to be a "safe" film. I think it's solidly entertaining and important as a success to what will come after in terms of both super hero and action films regarding female characters and hopefully directors as well... Still, this was crafted to be a very middle of the road, don't rock the boat kind of product. If I have any criticism about the film beyond the handling of the villainous elements and wishing the Amazon nation was given some more spotlight and definition, it is that the movie did very little to have any sharp elbows at all.

 

[Flemm]

Actually I think that the film, despite being about the biggest female comic book protagonist of them all, does kind of shy away from addressing feminism or sexism head on.

I think it's addressed, just in a subtle enough way to not be polarizing.

The historical setting helps, imho, in the sense that women not being allowed to even be present during a political debate, for example, is an old-fashioned enough form of sexism that nothing in those scenes really comes across as controversial to a modern audience.

You're right, of course, that the movie does make some safe choices in this area, but I think that is better than constantly preaching to the choir.

This is a film that a wide range of audience members can embrace, with a heroine who is easy to root for, so I think that is enough of an achievement in the current climate of deep division on some of these issues.

 

[Thome216]

Nor was it really the message they were choosing to convey. I feel if they had gone that route, in-depth discussing why she couldn't go 'here' or do 'that' because she was a woman, the movie would have gone off track.
As it was, for two and a half hours of joy, it stayed right with the main story line and dealt with those issues obliquely. Good job y'all!

 

[Greenlite]

Just saw the movie last night, I have a few questions, please bear with me if it's being said somewhere in the last 50 pages of discussions.

1. Did Robin Wright tell Diana to find the godkiller before she died, or did she just said godkiller?

2. How did Steve and Germans find the Amazons? It's very coincidental they found it right after Diana unleashed herself in training, and the Queen said "what have I done"

3. Why did Ares reveal himself instead of keeping Diana in a confused state?

4. Did Ares and Steve REALLY die? Funny how neither of them were shown explicitly like Robin Wright, Superman, etc. I think they'll keep them dead but there's wiggle room if they want show Steve having coffee with Diana at *wink* a Paris cafe, and God of War's corpse was never shown.

5. Did they ever explain why Diana had those bracelets since little? Does it absorb energy (seem to be doing that in the final battle)

Just my own thought on the relationship between Zeus, Diana and Ares, you could definitely see Zack's influence and parallels there, Zeus is God, Ares is the fallen angel, the serpent, and anti-christ who pushes humanity to corruption, and Diana is, well, Jesus, child of God who resisted devil's 40 nights of temptation to defeat it with love at the end.

My interpretation is that Ares revealed himself to tempt Diana into corruption, before she "rises" and ruins his plan, because he knows he "might" not be strong enough to defeat Diana, otherwise he could have just killed her without all the convincing? His timing is right about when Diana was confused and vulnerable, and when Diana fulfilled her potential Ares had no chance.

 

[Greenlite]

Actually I think that the film, despite being about the biggest female comic book protagonist of them all, does kind of shy away from addressing feminism or sexism head on. And... I think that is an indication about the feeling among WB folk that this had to be a "safe" film. I think it's solidly entertaining and important as a success to what will come after in terms of both super hero and action films regarding female characters and hopefully directors as well... Still, this was crafted to be a very middle of the road, don't rock the boat kind of product. If I have any criticism about the film beyond the handling of the villainous elements and wishing the Amazon nation was given some more spotlight and definition, it is that the movie did very little to have any sharp elbows at all.

My buddy who hates PC enjoyed the film, he was very resistant on the film before seeing it, I guess the subtle feminism stuff stopped turning people like him off? I think if you play sharp and in your face you risk losing half of your tomatoes, they are the priorities to set the narratives straight at this stage .

 

[zack.n]

Just saw the movie last night, I have a few questions, please bear with me if it's being said somewhere in the last 50 pages of discussions.

1. Did Robin Wright tell Diana to find the godkiller before she died, or did she just said godkiller?

2. How did Steve and Germans find the Amazons? It's very coincidental they found it right after Diana unleashed herself in training, and the Queen said "what have I done"

3. Why did Ares reveal himself instead of keeping Diana in a confused state?

4. Did Ares and Steve REALLY die? Funny how neither of them were shown explicitly like Robin Wright, Superman, etc. I think they'll keep them dead but there's wiggle room if they want show Steve having coffee with Diana at *wink* a Paris cafe, and God of War's corpse was never shown.

5. Did they ever explain why Diana had those bracelets since little? Does it absorb energy (seem to be doing that in the final battle)

Just my own thought on the relationship between Zeus, Diana and Ares, you could definitely see Zack's influence and parallels there, Zeus is God, Ares is the fallen angel, the serpent, and anti-christ who pushes humanity to corruption, and Diana is, well, Jesus, child of God who resisted devil's 40 nights of temptation to defeat it with love at the end.

My interpretation is that Ares revealed himself to tempt Diana into corruption, before she "rises" and ruins his plan, because he knows he "might" not be strong enough to defeat Diana, otherwise he could have just killed her without all the convincing? His timing is right about when Diana was confused and vulnerable, and when Diana fulfilled her potential Ares had no chance.

2. The Germans were presumably following Steve's plane.

3. Ares said he could not destroy mankind without Diana's help and was recruiting her.

4. They were both blown up, in different ways. No body left in either case.

5. In the movie unlike the comic books the bracelets are not explained.

As I said, Ares explicitly says he is recruiting her.

 

[Flemm]

On point #1, it's strongly implied that Robin Wright's character knows that Diana is herself the godkiller (not the sword). So it's almost like she is trying to tell Diana that she must stop Ares, but Diana misunderstands (though only slightly) and thinks that she must retrieve the sword before departing.

On point #2, I believe we just have to accept that Steve stumbles upon the island, and that the Germans follow him. This is an example of a big coincidence driving the plot, but audiences generally accept one big coincidence early in the story, to get things moving. So it's not very unusual.

 

[Lily Adler]

Also my theater did have a "oh ****" reaction when Ares destroys Diana's sword and reveals that she's the "Godkiller". I thought that whole scene was very well done.

I'm also in the camp that doesn't mind that Prof. Lupin is Ares (although he really should have had a beard in the flashback).