Civil War Sharon carter A.K.A. Agent 13 - Part 2

[TalismanRing]

Well as everyone knows by now I dislike ScarJo in the BW role (poor portrayal/look, and terrible physicality) so I group her in with Halle's Storm and Anna's Rogue.

I at least like Romijn/Mystique and Famke/Jean and I don't mind JLaw/Mystique. Once Apocalypse is released maybe Psylocke, new Storm, new Jean, Jubilee, Mystique will be good.

Yes, Hollywood politics most of the time get in the way of telling the best stories.

Whether you dislike Scarlett's BW or not grouping her in with female characters who have had very little story time and have little importance in the X-Men film universe - the opposite of their very powerful and important comic incarnations- while complaining about how much story time and importance BW is given is more than a bit head scratching.

Fox have most of the best female characters in the in Marvel universe and Fox has squandered them.

Scarlet Witch in one appearance is leaps and bounds above Storm & Rogue over four movies and did more than Rojmin's Mystique. Even MCU's non powered women characters have been more full fleshed out than Storm and Rogue. Pepper is easily a more rounded and interesting character. Heck Jane has had more to do than either of them.

The TV shows are not on par in giving women characters focus when you have to go back to the 1970s to try and even things up. Currently, the MCU ha 4 shows, 2 are female lead and the other AOS is pretty evenly split with the women characters arguably being the characters given the most emphasis and power.

Hollywood politics makes it sounds as if there's some kind of behind the scenes machinations with strings being pulled for nefarious or unfair reasons. Scarlett is very popular and as BW's popularity has grown they've used her more, and the more they use her the more integrated she became to the MCU so that not using her would have hurt the story line and the films and would have been an incredible waste of a valuable asset.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Sharon's only ever been part of it in very early promo material that was leaked by merchandise partners. That stuff was most likely drawn well before they even started filming.

They didn't show Sharon in the end team spot because she's not part of the fight. She wasn't there in the first trailer and she wasn't there in the official team fight photo.

Yeah, Sharon's role has been scaled down, we figured.

 

[TalismanRing]

Yeah, Sharon's role has been scaled down, we figured.

We don't know if it was scaled down or changed. Visually she might just have been a female place holder in the art before they knew if they could have Olsen. Ant-Man wasn't in the old promo art either.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

As a matter of fact, he was.

If Plan A was to use Wanda, there's no reason they wouldn't have included her in the art. Even if she wasn't signed at the time.

 

[Jeight]

I can't fathom how can anyone believe that Fox has done in 16 years a better job in the females department than Marvel. I know that sounds like fanboy logic but it's really not true.

As Talisman said Marvel has 4 shows in the air or in streaming services 2 of which are fully female-centered and one can argue that Daisy is AOS lead character along with Coulson. Having an opinion about an actress portayal over a character has nothing to do to the emphasis that has been given to the character and the job that has been done overall with her. It's understandable to dislike ScarJo as Widow. IMO it's narrow-minded to disagree with the development that has been done to her or Pepper or Peggy or other MCU ladies. Most people would agree it's much better than what Fox has done with Rogue, Kitty, Storm or Jean arguably some of the best Marvel female characters.

As for DC the fact that before Supergirl we have to 20 years back to find female-driven shows isn't really flattering. As for the big screen Catwoman or Supergirl (the movie before her) were steps in the right direction but they were attempts stained with awful results. My original thesis was on the amount of time that the MCU has existed and the opportunities it has given in much smaller timespan than the other studios.

 

[TalismanRing]

As a matter of fact, he was.

If Plan A was to use Wanda, there's no reason they wouldn't have included her in the art. Even if she wasn't signed at the time.

Plan A included Spider-Man and he's not included in any promotional art even when they knew they had him signed.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Plan A included Spider-Man and he's not included in any promotional art even when they knew they had him signed.

Notice the lack of a "stand in" though.

And the situations are different. Wanda is a character that Marvel had already introduced, cast, etc... While Spider-Man was at another company.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Seriously, the amount of logical hoops certain people go through to justify their hate for Sharon is insane. Why wouldn't they have been able to use Wanda? They sign their actors to multi-picture deals even if they aren't going to be in multiple pictures! For all we know, Wanda will be in prison most of the film, and that's why she wasn't in the art, because Sharon will spend more screen time with Team Cap.

 

[TalismanRing]

Wanda also exists in some contractual morass of having her on screen rights belonging to two companies. The same early rumors that said Spider-Man right issues were holding up promotion for him said there were also issues about about Wanda. The rumors about SM were confirmed by the Russos.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

Seriously, the amount of logical hoops certain people go through to justify their hate for Sharon is insane. Why wouldn't they have been able to use Wanda? They sign their actors to multi-picture deals even if they aren't going to be in multiple pictures! For all we know, Wanda will be in prison most of the film, and that's why she wasn't in the art, because Sharon will spend more screen time with Team Cap.

I think that kind of thinking is setting yourself up for a big disappointment, but whatever floats your boat.

Seeing how incredible Peggy is on Agent Carter, perhaps the small screen is the ideal place for her grand niece as well.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Wanda also exists in some contractual morass of having her on screen rights belonging to two companies. The same early rumors that said Spider-Man right issues were holding up promotion for him said there were also issues about about Wanda. The rumors about SM were confirmed by the Russos.

The same early rumors about Civil War also said that Crossbones would be the main villain.

 

[TalismanRing]

Seriously, the amount of logical hoops certain people go through to justify their hate for Sharon is insane. Why wouldn't they have been able to use Wanda? They sign their actors to multi-picture deals even if they aren't going to be in multiple pictures! For all we know, Wanda will be in prison most of the film, and that's why she wasn't in the art, because Sharon will spend more screen time with Team Cap.

All multiple picture deals aren't the same. Actors like Stan and Cobie signed 8-9 film contacts where they could be used in any film and maybe even TV. Other actors have specific film contracts. Evans specifically signed for 3 solo Caps and 3 Avengers. RDJ extended his last contract for 2 Avengers movies. So when they wanted RDJ for Civil War even though it comes before IW they had to re-negotiate a contract (as they had to re-negotiate for Evans and RDJ to do IW2) Olsen said in interviews she'd signed for 2 Avengers movies. If so they had to negotiate a new contract for this appearance in CW.

The issue being discussed is that Sharon is in early promo art for the big fight scene when she's not in - Wanda is. That's shown in the official art and the trailer and the ad.

Regardless, Olsen filmed three weeks so I doubt her part is big since unlike Ant-Man, War Machine, Black Panther, Spider-Man or even IM her character can't be on screen via stunt double/CGI.

 

[TalismanRing]

The same early rumors about Civil War also said that Crossbones would be the main villain.

No they were not the same rumors, but different rumors from a different source.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Okay, buddy.

 

[Jeight]

A minor correction. I think Olsen filmed for 5 weeks, same amount as Rudd.

 

[TalismanRing]

A minor correction. I think Olsen filmed for 5 weeks, same amount as Rudd.

I thought Rudd only filmed for 2 weeks.

 

[Jeight]

If Rudd filmed for 2 week, is tand corrected. I remember very clearly Lizzie stating she filmed for five weeks either in a C##### interview or in the Deauville festival.

 

[TalismanRing]

If Rudd filmed for 2 week, is tand corrected. I remember very clearly Lizzie stating she filmed for five weeks either in a C##### interview or in the Deauville festival.

Cool. I'd be happy to see more of her. Found the quote confirming 5 weeks.

http://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/elizabeth-olsen-talks-captain-america-civil-war/

http://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/elizabeth-olsen-talks-captain-america-civil-war/

"I think it's going to be the best one," she says of the film in a video interview. "I am very excited to see it myself — I only worked on set for five weeks, so I wasn't there for the majority of it. Daniel Brühl is an incredible actor and he's playing the main villain in it, and he's incredible."

 

[Voltron]

Whether you dislike Scarlett's BW or not grouping her in with female characters who have had very little story time and have little importance in the X-Men film universe - the opposite of their very powerful and important comic incarnations- while complaining about how much story time and importance BW is given is more than a bit head scratching.

Fox have most of the best female characters in the in Marvel universe and Fox has squandered them.

Scarlet Witch in one appearance is leaps and bounds above Storm & Rogue over four movies and did more than Rojmin's Mystique. Even MCU's non powered women characters have been more full fleshed out than Storm and Rogue. Pepper is easily a more rounded and interesting character. Heck Jane has had more to do than either of them.

The TV shows are not on par in giving women characters focus when you have to go back to the 1970s to try and even things up. Currently, the MCU ha 4 shows, 2 are female lead and the other AOS is pretty evenly split with the women characters arguably being the characters given the most emphasis and power.

Hollywood politics makes it sounds as if there's some kind of behind the scenes machinations with strings being pulled for nefarious or unfair reasons. Scarlett is very popular and as BW's popularity has grown they've used her more, and the more they use her the more integrated she became to the MCU so that not using her would have hurt the story line and the films and would have been an incredible waste of a valuable asset.

What does all that have to do with me not liking scajo's wooden portrayal, poor athletic physicality and incorrect look for BW? To clarify I was grouping her in with a group of actors that I feel are miscast in their roles; that's it. I wasn't talking about the writing and story, but the miscasting.

Also re the TV shows I wasn't referring to character focus, writing etc, I was referring to the NUMBER of female tv shows DC and Marvel had/have and how DC was way ahead and a pioneer (that I know of, I may be wrong) by having the first female superhero TV show way back in the 70's; that's it.

See that's the problem, I wanted to see a Cap movie with Cap's main supporting characters like Sharon from his source material, but since "scajo/BW is popular", and the directors love her, and she might sell more fanboy tixs let's add her in. But TWS already had big names like SLJ, RRedford, Marvel's rep for quality movies, and was able to coast on the popular Marvel brand. Also Hollywood politics does exist. Politics in general exists in all work places and industries.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Forget it, Vol. It's TalismanRing.

 

[Voltron]

I can't fathom how can anyone believe that Fox has done in 16 years a better job in the females department than Marvel. I know that sounds like fanboy logic but it's really not true.

I was referring to female casting and portrayal, not who has done a better job overall in the female dept or else why do you think I mentioned Halle and Anna as terrible casting. Fox like Marvel has done a mixed bag imo.

As Talisman said Marvel has 4 shows in the air or in streaming services 2 of which are fully female-centered and one can argue that Daisy is AOS lead character along with Coulson. Having an opinion about an actress portayal over a character has nothing to do to the emphasis that has been given to the character and the job that has been done overall with her. It's understandable to dislike ScarJo as Widow. IMO it's narrow-minded to disagree with the development that has been done to her or Pepper or Peggy or other MCU ladies. Most people would agree it's much better than what Fox has done with Rogue, Kitty, Storm or Jean arguably some of the best Marvel female characters.

You're talking about female character emphasis but to clarify I wasn't talking about developments or stories or writing etc. I was only talking about scajo/BW. See, you can't group Fox-Men females Vs Marvel females because it's a mixed bag. It's a character by character basis. Keep in mind that Marvel has had more movies to showcase and develop a lower number of females than Fox-Men who have a higher number of females (and males) in fewer movies.

As for DC the fact that before Supergirl we have to 20 years back to find female-driven shows isn't really flattering. As for the big screen Catwoman or Supergirl (the movie before her) were steps in the right direction but they were attempts stained with awful results.

We're talking about different matters here. Going more than 30 years back shows that DC were pioneers in female superhero TV shows.

My original thesis was on the amount of time that the MCU has existed and the opportunities it has given in much smaller timespan than the other studios.

Well that I agree on, but that didn't come across in your previous post.

 

[Voltron]

Exactly! And my favorite part is how they were presenting the teams in that spot and completely excluded her. 2 more seconds for her wouldn't have killed them.

It's like either you have Wanda or Sharon on the promo but never the two together.

And you're right, they are putting Hulk because he's an avenger. Just like they showed more of Wanda because she was in AoU. It looks more like Marvel is doing an avenger movie than cap .

Well that was a TV spot, let's wait for a full TRAILER 2 to see if they show her there. Let's play Where's Wally/Waldo/Sharon again t:. Yeah what's up with only having Wanda or Sharon in the promos? They're not interchangeable.

 

[Voltron]

Forget it, Vol. It's TalismanRing.

t:

 

[Jeight]

To sum it up it's a matter of development for me. It's not how many females you have in a movie that's the easy part. Marvel can put every female agent and superheroine in a film, would that be a breakthrough for female presence in comic book movies? Maybe but it will mean nothing if the Marvel does nothing with the characters.

They haven't developed every female character equally but my point was that for the 7 full years the MCU is running the amount of female characters that have been given a fleshing-out is more promiment that what Fox or Sony (admittedly they don't have so many movies as the other studios) or even DC has done with the same or bigger amount of female characters in their movies.

Neither company is perfect but IMO Marvel has done the best job so far in the combination of female presence+ development. You are right, that point wasn't very clear in my og comment.

P.S: Also since i'm new here i would appreciate it if someone could tell me how to put a pic/gif in ym profile like many of you have done. Maybe i'm really incompetent cause i can't find that option in the profile

 

[Voltron]

Development matters for me too, but it means zilch if I don't dig the characterisation.

Personally my fav female CBM character is Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman where she completely looses herself in that role.

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