BvS Skepticism Regarding the Film - Part 6

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]484013[/split]

 

[DeadPresident]

I am definitely deliberately reading your posts. lol

"I'm just trying to fit in. Making a mountain out of a mole hill is kind of common practice around here"

How is that not passive aggressive?

It's not flawed, if that is literally all we have. If someone was still passing judgement on Man of Steel based on its trailer than you might have a point. Otherwise, what would you have us do? Sit on our hands until the movie comes out.?

I added the emoticon for a reason, I was saying it tongue in cheek to refer to the Hype's general tendency to completely lose perspective when something new comes around, I really didn't say that passive aggressively.

I'm not saying people shouldn't discuss it, I just find it weird that people are using the trailer like it's the movie in microcosm. The trailer didn't include Lex, WW, second villain (if there is one) but folks are making judgments about the entirety of the film based on the very little we've got access to. That just seems strange, it's like people are looking for reasons to hate it, it's getting nitpicked to death and the nitpicks are sometimes made out to be cataclysms.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Seems to be less skepticism in Affleck after the trailer. He didn't even speak as Wayne though

 

[SlamAdams]

I added the emoticon for a reason, I was saying it tongue in cheek to refer to the Hype's general tendency to completely lose perspective when something new comes around, I really didn't say that passive aggressively.

I think we have different views of what it means to be passive aggressive. Sarcastically acting out the flaws that your criticizing certainly seems like passive aggression to me. That may not be what you intended, but it certainly has nothing to do with my comprehension.

I'm not saying people shouldn't discuss it, I just find it weird that people are using the trailer like it's the movie in microcosm. The trailer didn't include Lex, WW, second villain (if there is one) but folks are making judgments about the entirety of the film based on the very little we've got access to. That just seems strange, it's like people are looking for reasons to hate it, it's getting nitpicked to death and the nitpicks are sometimes made out to be cataclysms.

At this point and time, it is: a short representation of the movie. While I agree that no one has really voiced their finalized opinion on the movie (because they literally can't), I think there is enough context (it is not yet released) that every opinion expressed thus far doesn't require a "Of course, I haven't yet seen it so nothing's final" post-script.

 

[rockandrollsoul]

Seems to be less skepticism in Affleck after the trailer. He didn't even speak as Wayne though

As expected. I'm sure it will be even less once the film comes out. General rule of thumb: If the fanboy community despises a casting choice, it's probably great.

 

[Doc Ock]

I think hopeless is a good description of what I think of this film so far, I have no reason to be excited about it. I didn't like the "Superman" in MOS and I despise the Batman from TDKR. I see everyone being so excited after the trailer and I just don't get, it must be the legions of people who just can't get enough Batman. I wouldn't be surprised if that is what pushes the film to success, the Batfans.

At one point I was so excited for Zack Snyder doing Man of Steel, then it came out and I simply thought "oh no" to myself. I know I'm in the minority and it's frustrating, I hope somehow my opinion can be swayed by future marketing but I just don't know.

 

[DeadPresident]

I think we have different views of what it means to be passive aggressive. Sarcastically acting out the flaws that your criticizing certainly seems like passive aggression to me. That may not be what you intended, but it certainly has nothing to do with my comprehension.

Fair point, it was badly communicated on my part.

At this point and time, it is: a short representation of the movie. While I agree that no one has really voiced their finalized opinion on the movie (because they literally can't), I think there is enough context (it is not yet released) that every opinion expressed thus far doesn't require a "Of course, I haven't yet seen it so nothing's final" post-script.

Also a fair point, however I do think that this trailer only showed very limited pieces of the story pertaining only to the Supes/Bats dynamic. I'm fairly sure there's going to be a lot more, which is why I think that viewing the trailer as a short representation of the movie in its entirety might be jumping the gun a bit. A lot more needs to be seen before I think people have vaguely enough evidence to make decisions about what they do or don't like, since we're sitting here without much context and a trailer that may have been edited in such a way that the pieces in it can't really be linked all that accurately.

 

[DeadPresident]

I think hopeless is a good description of what I think of this film so far, I have no reason to be excited about it. I didn't like the "Superman" in MOS and I despise the Batman from TDKR. I see everyone being so excited after the trailer and I just don't get, it must be the legions of people who just can't get enough Batman. I wouldn't be surprised if that is what pushes the film to success, the Batfans.

At one point I was so excited for Zack Snyder doing Man of Steel, then it came out and I simply thought "oh no" to myself. I know I'm in the minority and it's frustrating, I hope somehow my opinion can be swayed by future marketing but I just don't know.

It won't be swayed, you already seem to have made up your mind man, just give the movie a pass. There are a bunch of Superman fans on here that are jazzed about it.

 

[SlamAdams]

Also a fair point, however I do think that this trailer only showed very limited pieces of the story pertaining only to the Supes/Bats dynamic. I'm fairly sure there's going to be a lot more, which is why I think that viewing the trailer as a short representation of the movie in its entirety might be jumping the gun a bit. A lot more needs to be seen before I think people have vaguely enough evidence to make decisions about what they do or don't like, since we're sitting here without much context and a trailer that may have been edited in such a way that the pieces in it can't really be linked all that accurately.

If we have more context, we'll have more accurate opinions. Arguably, the only way to have a real opinion is to just see it. This is all obvious. But this is all we have, so this is what is being discussed and judged.

 

[DeadPresident]

If we have more context, we'll have more accurate opinions. Arguably, the only way to have a real opinion is to just see it. This is all obvious. But this is all we have, so this is what is being discussed and judged.

Maybe that's how you're going about it, but not everyone hanging around here shares that same amount of reason.

 

[SlamAdams]

Maybe that's how you're going about it, but not everyone hanging around here shares that same amount of reason.

What else could they possibly be doing?

 

[rakija]

I'm hoping the writer Ben brought along will craft a better plot and script.

Goyer and Snyder together is an awful pairing. Snyder can have his explosion and destruction porn all he wants; but he needs to give script control to someone else.

 

[I Am The Knight]

I wouldn't be surprised if that is what pushes the film to success, the Batfans.

Of course. Why else would he be in the movie? WB could have made more money by giving BatFleck his own solo film an give Superman a solo sequel, and then pair them in a World's Finest. But they have no real faith in Superman it seems, so they decide to shove Batman in this movie, and WW, Aquaman, Cyborg and maybe Flash? Because they want to do JL as soon as possible it seems.

 

[mclay18]

I'm hoping the writer Ben brought along will craft a better plot and script.

Goyer and Snyder together is an awful pairing. Snyder can have his explosion and destruction porn all he wants; but he needs to give script control to someone else.

The only reason Goyer is being credited as co-writer is because he wrote the first draft, which was likely the one WB greenlit (in that respect he deserves credit). Even if Terrio jettisoned Goyer's draft completely and started from scratch the latter still gets credit... it's a weird WGA arbitration system.

Terrio's influence can be felt in the dialogue in the teaser. The soundbites from the senator, Charlie Rose, et al -- not cringeworthy. Even Alfred's speech flows well.

 

[hafizbat]

Maybe that's how you're going about it, but not everyone hanging around here shares that same amount of reason.

You're guilty of the very thing you're accusing people of doing...making assumptions and handing out judgement.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

I think hopeless is a good description of what I think of this film so far, I have no reason to be excited about it. I didn't like the "Superman" in MOS and I despise the Batman from TDKR. I see everyone being so excited after the trailer and I just don't get, it must be the legions of people who just can't get enough Batman. I wouldn't be surprised if that is what pushes the film to success, the Batfans.

Good for them! And I mean it.

But hopeless...yeah. Depressing. Like I said earlier, that teaser reminded me more of a horror movie than a superhero movie. Something about it "disturbed" me. Not like The Blair Witch Project or the Goddess Bunny clip, but like a bad dream. The dream where your wife suddenly turns out to be a hairy, bald guy called Hank Richards. It's "wrong".

I think some people (some people, not all. Not all people, but some) are so desperate for a Superman/Batman/Justice League cinematic universe, that they just don't care what Rob Lief...Zack Snyder does. He can do no wrong. If the Robin rumors are true, they'll just smile and nod, because Batman looks awesome and we're finally getting a Justice League movie. If you're skeptical, you can just crawl under a rock and die.

Imagine if Warner Bros released a clip tomorrow. The clip shows Batman fighting gang members. Lots of slo mo, badass moves etc. All the gang members are on the ground, except one. He drops his knife. "I surrender, please don't hurt me!" And then Batman rips his eyes out. I bet some people (some people. Not all. Some) would defend it. "Remember that Cyborg exists in this universe? People can get new eyes. Who cares anyway? At the end of the movie, Batman will lighten up a bit, he'll be inspired by Superman's optimism...and stuff".

But, I could be wrong. Maybe the movie turns out to be good. Even though I hated everyhing about the new Fantastic Four movie, I think the movie looks okay after the new trailer. Maybe the next BS trailer will surprise me.

 

[Destructus86]

I'm turning around towards this film...I went from no interest to a bit of interest mainly due in part to the amazing work they've done with Batman.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

Remember the Man of Steel teaser #1 and we all thought the movie was trying to win best drama? The film was just a tad different from that first teaser trailer. In fact, that first teaser trailer was basically only Clark's journey north within the movie. One act.

Likewise, this trailer focused on just the reaction the world has had with someone like this walking among us and what Bruce Wayne thinks about it. I'm positive there will be much, much more to this movie.

 

[LordofhouseEl]

I still think Superman should have been well established as a character before delving into a film like this. This Superman is still essentially a mystery and doesn't inhabit any of the traits usually associated with the character besides the powers. In fact I outright hate this Superman, allowing his father to die is one of the greatest mistakes ever put to cinema and a misrepresentation of the character. I don't think I will ever be able to get pass that to embrace this Superman, such a huge flaw and one that should have never been inserted in the script. MOS looked depressing and so does this, although some scenes in this look amazing they still convey sadness.

 

[SlamAdams]

I still think Superman should have been well established as a character before delving into a film like this. This Superman is still essentially a mystery and doesn't inhabit any of the traits usually associated with the character besides the powers. In fact I outright hate this Superman, allowing his father to die is one of the greatest mistakes ever put to cinema and a misrepresentation of the character. I don't think I will ever be able to get pass that to embrace this Superman, such a huge flaw and one that should have never been inserted in the script. MOS looked depressing and so does this, although some scenes in this look amazing they still convey sadness.

And a wholly unsatisfying end to a version of Pa Kent who might have been a little more interesting than a voicebox for generic blue collar middle America truisms.

 

[LordofhouseEl]

And a wholly unsatisfying end to a version of Pa Kent who might have been a little more interesting than a voicebox for generic blue collar middle America truisms.

In truth I didn't like Jonathan either, that maybe line about letting letting kids die was disgusting. MOS really butchered classic characters.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

I still think Superman should have been well established as a character before delving into a film like this. This Superman is still essentially a mystery and doesn't inhabit any of the traits usually associated with the character besides the powers.

I agree. I also think that Superman should have been the first superhero in the movies. Now he's just some insecure newcomer...

Guy: "Two aliens fighting? In Metropolis? Now I have seen everything! We are not alone!"

Guy 2: "Why are you so impressed? Remember that bearded fishman and the amazon? The guy who dresses up like a bat? The Flash? Green Lantern?"

Guy: "But...aliens, man. Alie..."

(Both guys are crushed by a falling building

 

[MaceB]

It's clear that this is going to be a controversial film based solely on the recent fan reaction. It's MOS all over again.

I'm starting to think that Superman is a poison pill of a character. No matter what any filmmaker does with him, there's just too many people who feel like they have ownership over how the character ought to be represented. Not bright enough? Not Superman. Not charming enough. Not Superman. Forced to kill a threat? Not Superman. Not leading the pack at all times? Not Superman.

And I'm saddened by all the folks who don't like the Miller Batman. I can understand how expectations could cause some people to feel betrayed by this particular representation of the character. As for me, I think TDKR Batman is the most spot-on representation of the character yet. And I'm eager to see Superman let loose, so that the character can grow in new, darker, more unexpected ways that aren't as restrictive as many fans would like. I do appreciate all the concerns, but for me....I'm optimistic.

My bigger skepticism is whether the film will be well received at this point. I think fans do a huge disservice by being the canon police and causing an Internet ruckus over trivial details. I sincerely hope that the reaction isn't so divisive, that WB feels they need to change course.

 

[Mikelus]

People hating Goyer should hate Nolan too since he was also very involved with the script of MOS and had the power to change things if he wanted:

Q: We heard that Chris has been surprisingly involved. David (Goyer) was telling us that he’s been talking with him almost every day. Has that been your interaction with him as well, or has it been mostly Chris talking with David?

Roven: I’d say Chris’ real main focus - and we always knew this was going to be this way, and even more so, once I came on board because we knew it’d be overlapping productions, he was going to focus really on the story and the script, those issues. Emma (Thomas) would be involved with Chris and myself and all of this in terms of casting somewhat. We did all that, all the big parts were more or less cast before “The Dark Knight Rises” started to shoot. But, the production issues have been more me communicating with Emma. Obviously, collaborating with Debbie (Snyder), but in terms of the Nolan contingent, I’ve been spending more time talking with Emma about that. Every so often, Chris gets updated, gets involved. We really ideally would like to make sure that there’s an ongoing collaboration on both films.

Q: Is this more of a shared vision?

Roven: Well, I think that Goyer and Chris shaped the idea of the story. It was definitely David’s original idea of the story. He came to Chris with it. So, it’s certainly a shared vision from that standpoint. But once again, while that vision stayed constant to a certain degree, it was then mutually informed by Zack, right? So, my job is to help that redefined vision that has those three visionaries making it to deliver that, to help that vision be delivered. That’s what I do.

http://www.superherohype.com/features/articles/177083-from-the-set-of-the-man-of-steel?start=4

Anyway, if some people prefer dumb humor, cheesy one liners, weak villains... there are plenty of movies with that, all don't have to repeat the same formula.