BvS Skepticism Regarding the Film - Part 8

[Baneis8feettall]

Also Alien invasion in MOS happened because of Kal El's existence. Not just that there is no guarantee of one day Superman won't turn evil or go insane etc.

Superman is worse than a walking nuclear weapon at your door.I think Batman doesn't want to take a chance that this ailen is unbreakable force of good.

It makes all sense. If we didn't know Superman, we might feel same way. Just a being who can dominate or end human race and already thosands of people die in brawl between him and other kryptonians.

Even he is wrong, he has a point why he should destroy Superman.

 

[Baneis8feettall]

I'm not being fan of marketing about this movie. I think WB did a mediocre job with some hits and misses.

Marketing isn't just spending big money to promotion. They could get a lot creative. Airlines spots are good example.

What was that Lex/OS viral thing?

 

[The Guard]

When I say believable, I mean can people understand it. They can sell the Batman vs Superman fight on purely a novel base, but can they get people to see more than just that? For me, they were getting there, but they failed to show it in the trailers. People are still asking why Batman and Superman are fighting to this day. They wouldn't be if the marketing guided them through the conflict better.

Eh, no. If people are asking, its because they just aren't paying attention. The marketing has made the source of their conflict pretty clear, in multiple instances. It has been quite clearly communicated. The marketing for this film has been excellent in that regard. Especially the viral stuff.

People keep ragging on Batman's "1% speech" as if its out of character. That's very much a portrayal of the pseudo-paranoid comic book Batman of the last 15-20 years.

Do people think Superman is going to go to the world council and roll over? Theres' a reason Batman sees him as a threat beyond Black Zero.

 

[Boy Scout]

I'm not being fan of marketing about this movie. I think WB did a mediocre job with some hits and misses.

Marketing isn't just spending big money to promotion. They could get a lot creative. Airlines spots are good example.

What was that Lex/OS viral thing?

Abandoned, apparently.

 

[DA_Champion]

We as the audience trust Superman as a good guy, not just because of what we saw in the movie, but because we've known he's a good guy long before Man of Steel was in production.

The people in the world of the film? Not so much. Superman has to earn their trust.

Keep in mind, the people in the world of Man of Steel have not watched Man of Steel.

 

[Marvin]

I think the issue is there's a lack of consistency as to the type of movie this is based on the trailers. One trailer looks it's an emotional drama, another looks a lot more fun and light, another looks like a intense action packed ride. Compare that to the brilliant marketing of Deadpool which from the start knew exactly the type of movie it was and embraced it, and people responded to it.

I think all this points to is that they are selling a movie that has something for everyone when it comes to tone. Kinda like alot of movies(especially in this genre).
What's funny is this so called 'fun and light' trailer had no more fun and quips than the average nolan movie of the same material. Save for Villain, though I think people seeing the false face of lex is going to play pretty well.

My biggest fear is exactly what you said, that Batman won't be a likeable character, and I have issues with that interpretation.

Good to come to terms with that before the fact.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Yeah this ain't Superfriends era Batman anymore folks... we live in a post TDKR world

 

[Lantern Venom]

My problem with Batman's motivation isn't that I don't understand it; it's that he comes across as completely unlikable. By all appearances he's a Col. Stryker/Bolivar Trask, thinking it's okay to kill someone who's done nothing but try to help people because he could be dangerous, because his power makes him a threat.
.

From Bruce's point of view, Superman's version of helping people has already made him dangerous. It stands to reason that after the events of MOS, there would be a percentage of people who would no longer want superpowered aliens settling their grudges on earth. Despite his good intentions, they would want Superman to leave rather than risk cataclysmic rumbles in the future.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Yeah this ain't Superfriends era Batman anymore folks... we live in a post TDKR world

You didn't hear the rumor about the post-credits BvS scene where Clark calls in Plastic Man to save a trapped mouse?

 

[Rorschach2012]

You didn't hear the rumor about the post-credits BvS scene where Clark calls in Plastic Man to save a trapped mouse?

lmao

that reminds me... i really ****ing want to see Plastic Man in this universe. He's one of DC's oldest heroes, and is by far the best stretching superhero

Plastic Man>Mr. Fantastic>Elongated Man

 

[titansupes]

Keep in mind, the people in the world of Man of Steel have not watched Man of Steel.

Oh no?

 

[Jaxon]

From Bruce's point of view, Superman's version of helping people has already made him dangerous. It stands to reason that after the events of MOS, there would be a percentage of people who would no longer want superpowered aliens settling their grudges on earth. Despite his good intentions, they would want Superman to leave rather than risk cataclysmic rumbles in the future.

Batman, as loved as he is by people, is actually an a-hole. He treats women poorly, is violent, psychotic, a loner, distrustful, etc.
He doesn't have a lot of redeeming qualities.

He's loved for his gadgets, cool car, plane, etc. So making a Batman you might end up thinking is an A-hole is probably what you actually think of him already.

 

[Bren]

Even if he's unlikeable, neurotic, paranoid, illogical, unreasonable, fanatical at the start of the film, he won't be by the end.

Hopefully, it's because Superman (and maybe Wonder Woman) show him they are good and trustworthy and he was wrong.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

My problem has never been with Batman being prickly. It's when that goes to far and he's just a PRICK. Especially in the context of interacting with his fellow heroes. When they write him as being more integral and capable than every other DC hero and his dialog and relationships with the others is just explicit or implicit put downs... Sorry, that turns me off and it's not good for those other characters and the potential for them to become profitable and popular in their own right.

 

[Bren]

and his dialog and relationships with the others is just explicit or implicit put downs...

He's like a drill sargeant and his rough talk makes them better

 

[AnneFan]

I don't see flaws as a problem. I like them. They make characters unique.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I don't see flaws as a problem. I like them. They make characters unique.

I'm not saying that Batman should be without flaws, or bland like porridge. Like I said, it makes sense for him to be prickly. What gets old fast is when writers and fans mistake that for being a PRICK, full stop. That's not endearing to me in the least. What's worse is when it's a pseudo "flaw". When it's not really shown as a handicap to Bruce personally or mission wise. He's the one that's always right, whose assessment is unchallenged, and the other characters around him have no recourse, no response. When it started like 30 years ago, it was indeed different and refreshing but it's a game of diminishing returns now and I still contend this sort of writing of the character has harmed the greater DCU of heroes, not just in comics but across media. A happy medium can be found where Batman is the dark brooder, but can also function with the other DC characters without being made to belittle them all in his presence. At the least let the others actually get some shots in as well and have them show HIM up as much as over the years the reverse has been done.

 

[jmc]

I think all this points to is that they are selling a movie that has something for everyone when it comes to tone. Kinda like alot of movies(especially in this genre).
What's funny is this so called 'fun and light' trailer had no more fun and quips than the average nolan movie of the same material. Save for Villain, though I think people seeing the false face of lex is going to play pretty well.

Advertising 101 is to be consistent. It's actually a confusing message though if you're trying to say it's got something for everyone. If you look at something like The Dark Knight the promotion work was consistent, as was the Avengers, Iron Man, Deadpool, Fast and Furious, Jurassic World, even Man of Steel, the list goes on. They stayed on point about the type of movies they were trying to present. Where it gets murky for BvS is it's never stayed on point as to what it's trying to present to us. One trailer is about Batman and Superman fighting, the next is them teaming up with WW to fight Doomsday, the next is them fighting again only what appears to be more intense. It's easy to dismiss it as being insignificant but these things matter when it comes to attracting people.

 

[Jumpman]

Advertising 101 is to be consistent. It's actually a confusing message though if you're trying to say it's got something for everyone. If you look at something like The Dark Knight the promotion work was consistent, as was the Avengers, Iron Man, Deadpool, Fast and Furious, Jurassic World, even Man of Steel, the list goes on. They stayed on point about the type of movies they were trying to present. Where it gets murky for BvS is it's never stayed on point as to what it's trying to present to us. One trailer is about Batman and Superman fighting, the next is them teaming up with WW to fight Doomsday, the next is them fighting again only what appears to be more intense. It's easy to dismiss it as being insignificant but these things matter when it comes to attracting people.

I don't know about inconsistent. The third trailer that revealed the "Dawn of Justice" aspect of the film is the only piece of marketing that went against what they've been selling since day one.

The teaser, the Comic Con reel, and this final trailer from last week, along with the two TV spots that highlighted each character's perspective have all made it very, very clear that this is a philosophical battle between the two with Batman clearly in the antagonist role out of fear. Lex Luthor in all of the footage is seen as the wild card with Wonder Woman as the cypher, the unknown.

And the idea of having an unlikable Batman in a film...what's the problem with that per se? It's not like the film won't have a justification for his position, considering the trailers have clearly shown that. So, I don't get the problem with having a severely flawed Batman shown on screen this time.

 

[Jumpman]

Batman's illogical for wanting to contain the alien?

Bingo...

 

[Jumpman]

Illogical for not doing his homework.

And we know he hasn't done his homework how?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I don't know about inconsistent. The third trailer that revealed the "Dawn of Justice" aspect of the film is the only piece of marketing that went against what they've been selling since day one.

The teaser, the Comic Con reel, and this final trailer from last week, along with the two TV spots that highlighted each character's perspective have all made it very, very clear that this is a philosophical battle between the two with Batman clearly in the antagonist role out of fear. Lex Luthor in all of the footage is seen as the wild card with Wonder Woman as the cypher, the unknown.

And the idea of having an unlikable Batman in a film...what's the problem with that per se? It's not like the film won't have a justification for his position, considering the trailers have clearly shown that. So, I don't get the problem with having a severely flawed Batman shown on screen this time.

I am actually super hyped for the film. And I have no problem with Batman as we've seen him so far. He's on a mission to straight up murder Superman at the risk of his own life, putting his money where his mouth is. That's fine. It's moving forward after that which I am concerned given the way Batman's been written when interacting with the other DC heroes. Far too many instances of Batman being written as a *****ebag for my tastes, as well as far too many instances of contrivances to make him look goo while undermining the other DC heroes. To get the most out of these films WB has to be in the DC Super Hero business, not just The Batman business, other wise they may just close down the other productions and just do a Batfleck trilogy.

 

[Jumpman]

I am actually super hyped for the film. And I have no problem with Batman as we've seen him so far. He's on a mission to straight up murder Superman at the risk of his own life, putting his money where his mouth is. That's fine. It's moving forward after that which I am concerned given the way Batman's been written when interacting with the other DC heroes. Far too many instances of Batman being written as a *****ebag for my tastes, as well as far too many instances of contrivances to make him look goo while undermining the other DC heroes. To get the most out of these films WB has to be in the DC Super Hero business, not just The Batman business, other wise they may just close down the other productions and just do a Batfleck trilogy.

I agree that Batman is the crutch for WB mainly because of how successful he's been. I'm not too opposed to the idea that Batman is the cynic of the Justice League. He doesn't trust. That's his biggest problem. But, he still continues to be a team player. The characters around him, if done right, will change him.

With that aside, I never wanted the interlocking universe for these characters in the first place because no matter how much detail homework Snyder or whoever writes or directs Batman in any medium, the idea that Batman stands on equal footing with the rest of the Justice League has never worked for me. I like the fact that the DC characters are in their own separate universes away from others. From my limited experience with reading comics and research of opinions on the matter, it seems that most feel the same way.

And even with that caveat, there's no deny that I wanted to at least see the Trinity on screen at least once together, no matter how much they have to bend believably to do it. BATMAN v SUPERMAN might be our only shot at this so I'm going in hopeful that everything works because I think the set up of MAN OF STEEL (an alien invasion film that really emphasis the "alien" of Superman) is the perfect set for this type of story to be told.

I'll be frank, I care two craps about the JUSTICE LEAGUE films. This is the one. If Snyder makes this film work to my satisfaction, minus the WONDER WOMAN film, I'm done with this genre.

I've gotten my fantastic Batman series (and two other great live action Batman films and an animated Batman trilogy to boot)
I've gotten my fantastic Superman movie
I've gotten my fantastic Spider-Man movie

A Trinity movie is the cherry. Depending on how Snyder ends this film (and I'm cross my damn fingers that this film, like BATMAN BEGINS and like MAN OF STEEL, has a true ending), the genre can go the way of the Western after March 25th for all I care.

I just don't think there's too many more interesting stories left to tell in this genre. Thanks to Marvel mostly, they've exhausted all avenues. And Hollywood looks even sillier by trying to copy them with all of these other franchises.

 

[jmc]

And we know he hasn't done his homework how?

Well, it could easily be argued the shear fact he's fighting Superman indicates he hasn't.

 

[Jumpman]

Well, it could easily be argued the shear fact he's fighting Superman indicates he hasn't.

It could be but we don't have the specifics at all. I get your point but I wanna see first.