Spider-Man Begins

Discussion in 'Spider-Man Sequels' started by Tangled Web, Jun 2, 2006.

  1. iceberg325 Registered

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    \

    You're right and since those little details are so minor, there is no need at all for a restart of this franchise. I like it the way it is.
     
  2. "Iron Man" Registered

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    Guys, calm down. There will probably never be a "re-boot" of the Spider-Man franchise, but once S-M6 is long over, about 15 to 20 years after that, we'll get......"Spider-Man Returns". It shall be the bestest spiderman movie ever! Actually, I think it would be cool to make a returns movie about spiderman. Like, have SM6 end with Peter leaving New York to "find himself" or something like that....15 years later..."Spider-Man Returns"...Sypnosis: Following an absence of 3 years (or however many), Peter Parker returns to good ol' New York City, only to find that Mary Jane (if she's still alive by then) Watson has moved on, married Morris Bench (who will become Hydro-Man), and has 2 kids. Meanwhile, a man named Cletus Kassidy suddenly starts commiting a lot of crimes, and is put in the same jail cell as Eddie Brock (put there after S-M3 or whatever, whenever he's defeated and the symbiote leaves him). Little to Brock's knowledge, the Venom suit has returned to him and he breaks out of prison, but not before Kassidy grabs a piece of the Venom suit. Kassidy and the suit bond together, to form the monstrous villain Carnage. While Venom and Carnage wreck the city, Peter Parker, along with his NEW suit (the suit Tony Stark designed for him) engages in battle with Hydro-Man, who almost kills Mary Jane. Now that New York and the world need him so much, Spider-Man must ultimately battle thoughts inside his mind and the creatures outside......


    Now, that is a good movie. (I think...smiley face) No need for a Begins, Raimi has done a fine job, and will continue to do great as the helmer of the franchise, unless 3 is his last one.

    Just go the Bryan Singer/Superman way, do a "Returns" story.
     
  3. turbotwotone Registered

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    Your crazy!! Unsettling news of SM3? The spiderman films are possibly the best superhero films made to date! We should be so lucky that Sam Raimi is still making SM movies. I challenge you to find a better director that cares more about the individual characters vs the action. Yes Batman Begins was amazing and possibly the best of the batman films...but there is nothing wrong with the SM films IMO. If we had more directors like Chris Nolan and Sam Raimi, we wouldn't have dissasters like X3, Fantastic Four, and Elektra. If anything...they're going to need to restart the Spiderman franchise after Raimi leaves and the next idiot who comes on board, screws it up.
     
  4. turbotwotone Registered

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    Well said!!!! I think Superman is gonna be amazing.
     
  5. Abaddon Watching

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    Not really.:o


    Otherwise I agree.
     
  6. iceberg325 Registered

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    I 100% doubt it, but imagine carnage in spidey 3. wow!!!!!!!! One could only wish.
     
  7. Image Registered

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    I hope not. If it does, the story better be good, but I hope not. DOn't just throw characters out there and destroy them like X3...
     
  8. iceberg325 Registered

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    I was just thinking about it as far as how good a CGI Carnage would look.

    Why does everyone bash X3 for destroying characters. The characters were destroyed since X1. sorry for going off topic.
     
  9. maxmccumber Registered

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    Why should there be another origin film? Even though the first Spider-Man apparently wasn't as faithful to the comics as it could have been, we've already been shown how it all started. None of the previous Bat flicks ever focused strictly on the story of how Bruce Wayne became Batman, so when the franchise was reborn, that's what they decided to do.
     
  10. Image Registered

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    They could pull Carnage off to look good if they did him I'm sure and X3 destroyed it much worse even when X1 started it by focusing on one character or changing characters, but X1 was acceptable and not that much of being destroyed. Anyway an origin film for Spidey is not necessary.
     
  11. Matt Murdock Registered

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  12. The Kid AMERICA FTW

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    oh my stars and garters

    no macy gray next time.
     
  13. Matt Murdock Registered

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    hahahaha she was only in the first one for a couple of seconds!
     
  14. Tangled Web Registered

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    Right here. Here is the kind of thinking that destroys films. Look:
    SM1 Norman is killed Harry sees that Spider-Man killed him
    SM2 Harry hates Spider-Man, finds out Spidey is Peter and Norman was the Goblin.
    SM3: Carnage!!!! Yeah! cool cgi! omgs!!

    No. That's horrible. Since 2002 leading up to this movie has been the Goblin saga. Brother vs. Brother. Not Carnage, not Venom. No.

    This is the kind of thinking that ruined the Batman franchise.
    "Venom and Carnage will sell toys!"
    "Bane, Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, Neon gang, Batman, Robin, Batgirl, alt costume Ivy, alt costume freeze, Robin cycle, alt costume Batman."

    Right there. This kind of greed kills franchises.
     
  15. turbotwotone Registered

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    Just hold on now. Carnage? Venom? I think we re getting ahead of ourselves. 1st off...Carnage will not be in SM3, nor SM4, nor probually any other film before six. This is of course my opinion, but come on...its just not likely. I don't think Venom (as a main role) will be in SM3, and if so...it won't be longer than a brief cameo at the end of the movie as to set up a 4th movie. The reason I know this is because Thomas Hayden Church has been cast as the main villan, and they have already confirmed that he will be playing the role of Sandman. If that is the case, then there will be no other main villan...asuming that Raimi follows his same track record as before, with only having one central character. If there are more I see it being a very risky task as far as the story and plot are concerned. The reason I don't see Venom as a main villan in SM3, is because of the depth and history of his character. Venom should get his own movie altogether because to squeeze him into the plot of SM3 seems like a cheap move, when he deserves a fuul time role in SM4. And wether or not Venom is either in SM3, or SM4...he is too simalar of a character to Carnage...which is why I don't ever see Carnage getting his own villan role. At least not any time soon. I know that many fanboys are holding their breath, but I am only saying this as a prediction as to how I can likely see Columbia acting on these matters. Never in a million years will (Raimi's) Spiderman films fall victim to the same fate as Batman & Robin, And I think that Sam Raimi always gives great detail to the narrative of the characters' story as well as their abilities...so I think we can all rest a little easier, with that in mind. Also the goblin saga isn't going away I don't think!!
    I think that SM3 is going to be a great film, but we will just have to wait until next summer to know for sure. And besides...its not the spider-man writers that need worrying about, its the crackshots that wrote/ruined X3 we will have to watch out for.
     
  16. FlurryGuy Registered

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    If the improvement of a future spider-man movie would be the same as the difference between the movie from the 60's and the current ones, I wouldn't mind seeing that in a couple of years.
     
  17. TheFlyinRussian Borisnikov Lankomir

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    I really don't understand someone liking the comics but not liking SM1 and SM2.There are people out there who will never be pleased and those people are called SM fans.Sure the franchise will eventually have a re-boot,but it won't be for about another forty years I'm guessing,and that's only if comics are still popular then.Oh and :up: to the Phillies fans.
     
  18. turbotwotone Registered

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    Heres what I gater from your post...

    x=the improvement
    a=60's spiderman film
    b=the recent films

    and heres the equation i arive at...

    a-b=WTF

    Seriously...what are you getting at. The spiderman film from the 60's was terrible, and the current films are great. So by averaging them together you bring down the lasting appeal of the current films. IMO SM 1 & 2 are some of the best superhero movies ever released, and that stayed rather true to its source material...yes they are rather over the top, but I think thats to be expected in this day and age. In any case I don't see any reason to discount any of the new SM films as being bad. If hardcore fanboys think they are too far off base to enjoy them, then they don't have to watch them...and I see no reason to restart the current SM franchise.
     
  19. The Kid AMERICA FTW

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    and it was pure torture. lol:down

    I don't really give a damn about the comics really... I just know spidey from my marvel cards and tv. the fundamentals are all that's important to me and I see sm1 as a poor overly cheesy start for spidey that really is a lot of fun but fails to function as a the good spidy story to me though it has a cool fight with goblin at the end. I think it's... deep breath... overrated... (wait, hear what I have to say first...) and could have been more than it was based on the cool trailers and such.

    What's wrong with wanting webshooters, no macy gray, less cheese, more quips, gwen being in the first film instead of the last, better romance or less, what else, less burning building scenes, spidey sense that works all the time, opening credits that don't last forever, and better editing, better writing, narrating, better everything? What's wrong with wanting spider-man begins? I love spidey too much to see his story not reach its greatest potential..., that's all. Is it wrong to want macy gray out of spiderman movies? I want to think not...

    In spidey begins, he'll be shown making the costume and webshooters the same way batman was building his suit and gadgets. Those details I care about more in spiderman than in batman. Nolan could have handled it burton's way and basically explained it as "he's rich, that's why he has all this stuff." and I'd have been ok with that but spidey's an average kid with a pizza delivery job and his job at the bugle, so I'm not seeing how he could afford anything looking like that suit. who wouldn't want to see him make the iconic costume. All that drawing/sketching/coloring of it, even a prototype is worn and later it just magically appears without an explanation? I'm curious how he made it is all... what's wrong with that...

    the story with peter waking up one day being ripped and not using that genius mind to figure out why at all or if he'll be dying in moments? what was that?, along with the bad cgi, sometimes methinks it needed some work done... to be better, just better. The first film would actually be ok to me if it wasn't a spidey movie, there are some good performances in it, the themes are good too, I just hope that sony thinks it's not unthinkable to do a better spidey movie with the huge success of these versions showing them there's no real need right now... maybe a gazillion years from now they will. I can wait.
     
  20. turbotwotone Registered

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    I see what you're saying, but I can't see where you think that the SM films are poorly executed. Yes there were some questionable CG work, the whole making the suit buisiness, and believe me...nobodys disagreeing with not having macy gray in it (she's so anoying)...but all that aside you are missing whats most important...Sam Raimi's portrayal of SM as a person, comes a-lot further than most superhero/action films. Yes these movies all portray superheros w/ superhuman abilities, and countless action sequences, but few happen to capture the characters so boldly, which is why I think that his movies have been a real hit. I mean watch SM2 again...like the 1st 20 min is all drama and character building...thats really important. Try going and watching X3, and try to find that level of characterization...most superhero movies overlook that. I think that Batman Begins was so well recieved, not only because it was an amazing re-telling of Batman, but because the Batman films had reached rock-bottom and were in desperate need of a restart. Until the SM movies reach that point, I don't see them resatarting it any time soon. I know Raimi's SM films are not perfect, but you have to at least admit that they are a lot better made than most other superhero films. Its just that you, like me and everyone else are dedicated SM fans, and we all have expectations of what we think should go. To that I say lets put aside our minor hickups we may have w/ current SM films, and see what the future of SM films holds for us...and if that future of SM films doesen't bode well...then we can talk of a restart. On a personal note I am very currious to see if SM3 will be Raimi's last. If it will I think that the SM franchise will be in trouble, and not because I don't think that any other directors could measure up to his films, but because all of his films were built on a steady vision and an ongoing storyline. If that story line is not continued beyond SM3, then I think that the very foundation that the 1st 3 films were built on , wouldn't support future films. Again I use X3 as an example...look at what happened with the X-men franchise.
    Anyway, your views are still very valid and I'm not trying to bash your opinion...I'm only trying to present another side to the argument. In any case I hope SM3 turns out great.
     
  21. The Kid AMERICA FTW

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    true. the character is #1 in importance, and I actually think they missed what's most distinguishable in the comics,cartoon, etc. about our hero, [this be no minor hikup], because for whatever reason, spidey/parker seems to not be himself, and have hardly a funny-bone in him in these films. His humor to me falls flat coming from tobey for some reason/ he's just not that funny an actor I guess or maybe it's the muppetty voice. Most of the humor comes from making parker look goofy. screech from saved by the bell would laugh at him. (I see Zack as actually more like spiderman than spidey in the movie.)

    Who's spiderman?

    him-> [​IMG]Or him-->[​IMG]
    if the goof is who he is in the comics, please tell me... i know him differently from other incarnations but maybe they're what's wrong. :( I can't just put spidey's spideryness aside; can't ignore faults; and won't give it a handicap because it's better than captain america or batman and robin or something else.. My brain won't let me. argh... X3 has drama and character building, just not very good drama or character building. i thought it was mostly corny and cartoonish. while better and deeper, sm1 has its corn too, i recall when dunst softens her voice and speaks slowly in that unnatural way to say her romanace lines, barf. spidey's the star of the show and to not do him justice he deserves, makes me not very willing to accept it as THE spider-man film like superman so far is THE superman film. No matter how many otis' that movie had or silly crap and dramatic poems, they got superman, perfect, straight on the target with reeve. to me the way spidey's been brought to life is as if supes was given a jetpack in his movie instead of his flying powers... the performances, everythign else the same, except he's using a jetpack. I like the movie, it's cool, maybe otis was a pain in the ass but I came away feeling satsified with it overall, but it's still never going to be THE supes to me because he's basically supposed to fly. I never read the comics, all I know is supey flies on his own power.

    It's weird. JJJ's perfect, making sharp witted remarks rapidly every chance he gets just like his true self, while spidey's no where near as funny with his retorts, nothing like christmas meat.... what happened?

    the remake, batman begins, is an attempt to set right again what went very wrong, yep. Not the most faithful of films as batman was, it still killed at the box office, but the sequels were too silly and the stories mocked the character instead of celebrated him...(i actually feel that's how spidey's been treated since the first, too cheesy like the batman's sequels but i don't really care that much about it) the last was just a bad superfriends episode so people stayed away since they had batman/returns/forever on vhs. they went back to formula to steer their big franchise back into the public's good graces again. It succeeded. Personally i'm not making money off of spidey's success, so what the studio desperately needs isn't really my concern... in fact i'm losing money when i go to see spider-man and get an earful of macy gray instead.

    About spidey being better than most bad superhero films, true it's no catwoman. should they aim for that though? why not aim for the best. We have the technology... i've argued the same thing for the HUlk (it's no catwoman) and my friends still don't care. they want the 'true' hulk on screen, exactly as he is in the comics no matter how good the film is. I guess I liked it because I'm not sucha dramatically big hulk fan that my knowledge of the comic got in the way of seeing what's good about the movie or accepting it as the hulk I know..., but I can sympathise regarding spidey. It's a good movie, but a good spider-man movie? almost... so close I can smell it but all the stuff that doesn't make much sense in it's own world and the intended cheesy bad quality raimi gave it all brings it down. Make his spidersense work all the time, not just when it's convenient. Mj tripping, he reacts, goblin spray him with happy gas, he's out. Its intimate scenes are great then the cartoony, 80s cartoony, style to the rest is jarring. like a post or two ago i said, it's got some very good performances in it, and the story's themes are all interesting. i can't fault any of that stuff except for tobey and kirsten's often dry delivery in their scenes. there are lots of humorous situations i liked, good job raimi, but all that doesn't really make it the best spider-man to me because the star, spider-man fell short unfortunately, with cgi and character. Aim a little higher... aim for the moon... i really shouldn't walk away thinking the cartoon is relatively stll better than the films... it's a comicbookmovie, the ending shots aside, the first falls short in amazing visuals department. as a comicbook, that's probably a very important thing in it really, right next to characters. My preferrence would be to have the best of that in spider-man begins along with the more confident and humorous, characterization of spidey if possible... and gwen in the first film. She's in this next one but she most likely won't be THE gwen, just someone else with the same name... she's a blindingly beautiful dame so i won't mind it at all, but it's a strange decision to add her now when you're already past her story and could intro someone like black cat instead or gasp, give betty brant (my fav female character from the films) a bigger role....

    whew, that took a while... so to sum it up. i do enjoy them, and think they're up there in quality, not down in the gutter yet (although the more cartoonish cheesyness like ock throwing the car and the women screaming is dragging it there), but am not too willing to be unquestioningly accepting of them as my definitive spidey movies yet since i know its story's really could have been better, not just because i want webshooters, but just in itself could have easily taken it up a notch, and maybe be more like begins next time.
     
  22. matthooper Registered

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  23. fabman Registered

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    What's so wrong with Sam Raimi's SPIDER-MAN movies? I don't want a restart, Raimi's movies are faithful to what the whole SPIDER-MAN concept is! The new story arcs of "THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN" are unfaithful, not the movies!
     
  24. TheFlyinRussian Borisnikov Lankomir

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    Please stop whining about Macy Gray. I don't like her music either but for christ's sake she was in it for 8 seconds! The natural webbing is better because it blends in with all the other powers he received. It's actually harder to explain how an 18 year old kid just invents a webbing fluid. No current directors could have done a better job than Raimi and like I said before I don't see a reboot for another 40 years.
     
  25. turbotwotone Registered

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    Okay…come on seriously…you keep bringing up macy gray…she was in the 1st film for like 7 sec…it was a huge mistake…she will never return…lets just leave it at that. And come on…I liked Dunst’s sexy voice (laughs). I may be the only one, but I like her take on MJ for the most part. True her dramatic scenes are often forced and over-acted…but in a strange way it just fits to me. And I see what you mean about the humor and one-liners being absent from the SM movies, and I’ll have to agree. The sappy humor was always a part of spidey’s character both in the comics and the tv shows…and though they are sparsely in the movies, they are few and far between…and every time they come up they are not very funny. I don’t honestly know if that was due to the treatment of the SM character in the script or Tobey’s acting. But I have to say…I don’t know how spidey could be done any better! There has been one thing I’ve noticed in the 1st 2 SM films and that’s how spidey doesn’t really maneuver quite like he does in the comics and cartoons. Aside from when he is swinging from his webs through the city (which I believe is mostly CG) in the films, he never has quite the agility as we have come to know from him. About the only good example that he does is in SM2 when he is fighting Ock on the subway…and he jumps inside the train, through the window and grabs on to the pole horizontally in a crouching position. I think it was cool that they tried pushing the CG character to react as it did in the comics…but again, if you are going for realism…it really looked pretty fake. If I’m not mistaken…I think that is also one of the things you are trying to get at…as far as spidey being done better. And I think that this viewpoint walks a thin line, because there are many sides to this subject. If you are going for the truest spidey performance, than Yes-the cartoons will always be better because spidey was originally created in a comic book and will always play out better in a comic book and/or cartoon setting. There are things that play out better in the cartoons, that just don’t transpose very well to a live action film. As I stated in previous posts…I think we all witnessed the perfect example of this 1st hand, when we saw Batman & Robin. Schumacher always said he wanted to make a more comic-book version of batman…and to his defense, some things worked well based on that sense…but obviously there were countless problems as well. Unfortunately, his vision just didn’t suit the batman characters in the way they needed to be…ie: tim burton’s much grittier and darker take on the dark night, which I think was handled well in Batman Begins. Which brings us to spidey being portrayed the way he was. And I believe that a compromise has to be made at some point to make this unbelievable comic book hero-believable. I think Raimi has done a great job of taking an over the top superhero and placed him in the real world. Yes there needs to be realism to his movements, but at the same time there will be unbelievable action…because that’s part of the comic book world. So when Dok-Ock picks a car up over his head and throws it, it might seem fake…but like Hulk, it exists that way because it needs to. And the Cheesy woman screaming is also likely a tribute to Raimi’s earlier evil dead movies.

    Anyway…I’m glad both of us are able to enjoy the SM films for what they are. Though I don’t share many of your opinions, it doesn’t mean they are any less pertinent. As Sm fans it will always be hard to please every fan on all ends of the spectrum. Like you, I try to enjoy the SM films for what they are and forget all the small misses over all the things they do well. I’ll admit when I heard Sam Raimi was directing the 1st SM film, I was extremely concerned. But after seeing 2 films and his commitment to the spidey world…I am in no way disappointed. I still think though that nobody else could do as convincing a job of peter parker than Maguire does. During the scene where he tries to tell aunt may that his uncle’s death was his fault…I just thought to myself…no one else could have nailed that like he did. And I also think that Sam Raimi’s Spiderman films will never be topped or equaled up too, because I don’t believe any other directors would handle the story and characters with as much care. If it is the characters you are concerned with, then I would pray my lucky stars that you get another director with as much dedication after Raimi leaves. CG work aside…I really do think that the current SM films are being made about as well as the can be made. Pushing the spidey character in the films too far to resemble the spidey from the comics wouldn’t bode well in film, I think. Again I completely understand you not making them your definitive SM movies…I just hope you are not left to be waiting forever.
     

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