The Rise of Skywalker Star Wars IX Box Office Thread

How much money will Star Wars IX make? (Please choose 2 options, domestic and worldwide)

  • Less than 300M domestic

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 300M - 400M domestic

    Votes: 2 3.0%
  • 400M - 500M domestic

    Votes: 11 16.4%
  • 500M - 600M domestic

    Votes: 13 19.4%
  • 600M - 700M domestic

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • 700M - 800M domestic

    Votes: 8 11.9%
  • 800M - 900M domestic

    Votes: 6 9.0%
  • Over 900M domestic

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Under 1B worldwide

    Votes: 7 10.4%
  • 1B - 1.2B worldwide

    Votes: 20 29.9%
  • 1.2B - 1.3B worldwide

    Votes: 5 7.5%
  • 1.3B - 1.4B worldwide

    Votes: 5 7.5%
  • 1.4B - 1.5B worldwide

    Votes: 6 9.0%
  • 1.5B - 1.6B worlwide

    Votes: 7 10.4%
  • 1.6B - 1.8B worldwide

    Votes: 3 4.5%
  • Over 1.8B worldwide

    Votes: 6 9.0%

  • Total voters
    67
  • Poll closed .
Streaming wasn't invented with the launch of Disney Plus. The Mouse had been earning an estimated $300M annually since 2012 from the company's contract with Netflix. And even if Disney stopped developing new Star Wars content future revenues generated would be more than sufficient to justify the relatively meager $4B purchase price.
Disney is now losing massive amounts of money starting up their own streaming service. They have turned a $300 million revenue stream (with a high profit margin) into a large deficit by pulling out of the Netflix deal and doing it themselves. Their obsession with control is costly in the short to medium term. The long run remains to be seen. UBS estimated that their break even point where they move from loss to profit on streaming at 32 million subscribers given a $9 price point. Since the actual price point is $8 the likely need about 36 million subs to break even. They have around 10 million and that includes non-paying trial members.

Old media companies that consider their hyper-growth phase to be over won't be around much longer. That's most successful of the lot - Kabletown, AT&T/Warner Media & Disney - have grown rapidly recently in order to compete with the more highly capitalized FAANG companies that are spending billions to attract eyeballs.

Viacom wasted billions on supporting a failing stock instead of investing in new franchises & digital media, and relying on film distribution deals with Marvel and Dreamworks instead of buying them outright. That's why the company as a whole - valued at $11.8B in the merger with CBS - is currently worth what Iger could get for Lucasfilm if he put the unit up for bid.
So in your opinion, Disney has wasted tens of billions of dollars buying back their own stock. AT&T is a disaster waiting to happen. They tripled their debt over the past decade and their once sterling bond rating has been cut to barely above junk bond status. Their media properties would be toast without the wireless and telecom divisions to subsidize them. Like the FAANG companies, AT&T has a large, non-media cash flow to fund competition in this arena.

That business plan is not materially different than Apple, Amazon, etc. What is different is their cash flow isn't growing rapidly and much of it is committed to the 5G rebuild of their wireless network. Thus they are borrowing against future cash flow to support new ventures. Disney is the only old media company with sufficient breadth to both fund initiatives and stock buybacks from internal cash flow. That doesn't mean any particular initiative is a wise one.

Adjusted for inflation, the box office take was better during the PT than the ST. Merchandise sales are lower than during the PT days. Merch is now approaching levels seen during the long hiatus of the first decade of the millennium. Hasbro toy sales are a good slice of overall merchandise and a reasonable proxy for the whole. They averaged $211 million annually (at 18-20% royalty rate) from 2009-2014. Sales doubled in 2014 with TFA then fell 40% with RO instead. Hasbro's SW sales fell further with the reaction to TLJ. Even in nominal terms, SW toy sales having grown in over a decade. When inflation is considered, sales have shrunk.

In summary, Disney faces years of losses in streaming which is cannibalizing profitable DVD, cable and Netflix distribution deals. The movies are seeing a decline in popularity - dramatically so if measuring tickets sold rather than nominal dollars. Merchandise isn't growing and may be shrinking. On current pace, SW is a fading franchise; granted it's faltering from once stratospherice levels. The Mandalorian can help to address the decline in merchandise. Nothing other than massive and rapid subscriber growth can fix the streaming video losses in the short run. But to recapture the public imagination and gain a new generation of fans, Disney has to fix the movie franchise which can appeal beyond their paywall. They've managed that once in 5 movies but the toy sales falling right back to where they were when no movies were being made tells me that the success of TFA has not translated into a permanent appeal.
 
A future Star Wars entry will make more than TFA. You can bank on it.
I agree with you. TFA had the return of Han and Leia. I highly doubt the return of Rey, Finn, and Poe in 20 years will be as exciting.

It wouldn't be exciting 5 years from now, or 50 years from now either. The heights of TPM and TFA will never be scaled by this franchise again, even if you bring in Filoni, Favreau, etc. Masses of people didn't go out to see SW because it was SW. They went to see it because it was (once) good.
 
If that sticks it would be a very good hold.
 
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Disney is now losing massive amounts of money starting up their own streaming service. They have turned a $300 million revenue stream (with a high profit margin) into a large deficit by pulling out of the Netflix deal and doing it themselves. Their obsession with control is costly in the short to medium term. The long run remains to be seen. UBS estimated that their break even point where they move from loss to profit on streaming at 32 million subscribers given a $9 price point. Since the actual price point is $8 the likely need about 36 million subs to break even. They have around 10 million and that includes non-paying trial members.

Disney Plus is far from a sure bet, but it was the company's best option. Cord cutting isn't slowing down and it would have been foolish to continue to bolster their competitor by handing Netflix the Glengarry leads.

At least one analyst is expecting Disney Plus to reach its global subscriber goals of 60M to 90M within three years. And I'm guessing the price point may rise with these numbers.

Could Disney Plus Reach 60 Million-90 Million Subscribers Earlier Than Expected?

So in your opinion, Disney has wasted tens of billions of dollars buying back their own stock. AT&T is a disaster waiting to happen. They tripled their debt over the past decade and their once sterling bond rating has been cut to barely above junk bond status. Their media properties would be toast without the wireless and telecom divisions to subsidize them. Like the FAANG companies, AT&T has a large, non-media cash flow to fund competition in this arena.

So, in my opinion, buying back stock IN PLACE OF investing in extremely rare and very valuable cash cow franchises like Star Wars - as you proposed in an earlier post - would have been monumentally stupid.

In summary, Disney faces years of losses in streaming which is cannibalizing profitable DVD, cable and Netflix distribution deals.

There's no evidence said cannibalization is taking place. DVD and cable subscriber rates were going down regardless of what action Disney decided to take. And there was no guarantee Netflix was going to keep handing hundreds of millions annually to the Mouse with the company's focus on internal production development. Disney could have kept fully invested in their lucrative buggy whip business, but Iger wisely decided to move forward.

The movies are seeing a decline in popularity - dramatically so if measuring tickets sold rather than nominal dollars. Merchandise isn't growing and may be shrinking. On current pace, SW is a fading franchise; granted it's faltering from once stratospherice levels. The Mandalorian can help to address the decline in merchandise. Nothing other than massive and rapid subscriber growth can fix the streaming video losses in the short run. But to recapture the public imagination and gain a new generation of fans, Disney has to fix the movie franchise which can appeal beyond their paywall. They've managed that once in 5 movies but the toy sales falling right back to where they were when no movies were being made tells me that the success of TFA has not translated into a permanent appeal.

Lucasfilm needs new leadership and a new franchise or two to compliment Star Wars proper. The Willow series and a new Indiana Jones series are promising. But it's doubtful Star Wars ever fully recaptures the magic of the OT glory days.
 
Lucasfilm needs new leadership and a new franchise or two to compliment Star Wars proper. The Willow series and a new Indiana Jones series are promising. But it's doubtful Star Wars ever fully recaptures the magic of the OT glory days.
LFL is sitting on a goldmine with Indiana Jones. He's essentially the American version of James Bond, except his adventures are steeped in mysticism and the occult instead of espionage and techno-gadgetry. There's a lot more they can do with that IP than what's being done. Maybe a reboot of the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles could be the way forward in addition to a new slate of feature films.
 
Disney Plus is far from a sure bet, but it was the company's best option. Cord cutting isn't slowing down and it would have been foolish to continue to bolster their competitor by handing Netflix the Glengarry leads.
At least one analyst is expecting Disney Plus to reach its global subscriber goals of 60M to 90M within three years. And I'm guessing the price point may rise with these numbers.

Could Disney Plus Reach 60 Million-90 Million Subscribers Earlier Than Expected?

60 is doable but not in 3 years. 90 is way, way high. Keep in mind that Netflix doesn't even have 90 million domestic subscribers after more than a decade. Also you shouldn't quote Variety on most things Disney. They're not exactly an objective source.

So, in my opinion, buying back stock IN PLACE OF investing in extremely rare and very valuable cash cow franchises like Star Wars - as you proposed in an earlier post - would have been monumentally stupid.
SW has not proven to be a cash cow for Disney. They are still deep in the hole on that deal. It had more potential but the way things have played out it's hardly a cash cow. To me it looks like an ultimately profitable investment that's producing positive but sub-par returns. You really can't argue the numbers. They will probably hit payback numbers sometime around 2024-25. A 12 year payback is an internal rate of return of 6%.

[/quote]There's no evidence said cannibalization is taking place. DVD and cable subscriber rates were going down regardless of what action Disney decided to take. And there was no guarantee Netflix was going to keep handing hundreds of millions annually to the Mouse with the company's focus on internal production development. Disney could have kept fully invested in their lucrative buggy whip business, but Iger wisely decided to move forward. [/quote]
They could have continued to make hundreds of millions a year by partnering with Netflix. Disney has the catalog. Netflix has the infrastructure and distribution. They probably could have continued to raise prices into the half billion range annually for their film vault. IF they ever make it to 90 million streaming subs on their own, they won't make much more than that.

I agree they had to move away from dying formats like DVD. Sales there have been falling for 5 years now. They didn't have to build their own streaming service from scratch. Disney has done just fine by featuring their content through channels owned by others for close to a century. Financially they're chasing a goal that might one day equal what they already had. But by that time DVD sales will be about what VHS is today. They are surrendering a lot of profits for control. They will be losing money on Disney+ for years instead of making billions.
 
In regards to merch sales being lower for the sequels than the prequels, let us not forget the very fact that we never thought we were getting more than three Star Wars movies. Before the prequels I mean. I am sure merch sales if there had been no prequels would be drastically higher. I think the prequels tremendously hurt the popularity of the Star Wars brand as well. The sequels have as well, don't get me wrong. But people are not as willing the blind buy Star Wars merch as much as they were when we were more desperate for Star Wars movies. I don't think the decline in Star Wars merchandise sales means people like the sequels less than the prequels. I know no one is out right saying that, but I think that point is being inferred.

Also, in regards to the whole prequels vs. sequels thing, just because this trilogy has been an overall disappointment doesn't somehow make the prequel trilogy any better. I would agree with the sentiment that the prequel trilogy strived to tell a story different than the original trilogy will this one attempted basically to rehash it. But besides that, the newer movies have better looking production values that look more in line with the original movies, much better performances, and overall characters that are more likable than the ones presented in the prequels. Are we really going to pretend that Anakin's monologue about sand is any better today just because the last couple movies made some people upset? Garbage is garbage any day of the week.
 
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Monday domestic actual from the-numbers.com: $2,978,242 -68% $454,560,498

So the estimate held up. TFA, TLJ and RO all fell 72-75% in the comparable frame so good hold.
 
We are seeing a normal decline curve as TRoS ages. Over 80% of the DOM box on opening night and in the 60% range for the next 3 days. A quick drop to the 40% range for days 6-9. Low 30s for days 10-12 and low to 20% of the box office since then.

If it can hold on in that range through the weekend we're looking at $10-11 mil for mid week and a bit over $20 mil for WE#4, pushing the cume north of $480 mil. By the end of WE#4, TLJ had gotten 92.4% of it's DOM total and RO had 89.7%.
 
Yep and they also started from a higher point as well. TROS started low and is continuing to fall.
 
As I predicted an 80% drop from last week.

ROS is on pace for a final domestic total of $486-500 million

international is probably
$500-540 million

worldwide gross when all the dust settles...
986 million is the floor
1.040 billion is the absolute ceiling
 
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That article is riddled with errors from beginning to end. The cost is not a one-time static price. The shares they gave away continue to become more valuable and have tripled in price since the deal was struck. Disney continues to pay dividends on that stock and will do so to the tune of $70 million and growing each year. Cost is well north of $8 billion now, not counting interest on the cash portion of the deal.

The movies have done $5.6 billion gross at the box office. Disney gets half or $2.8 billion. Production cost for those 5 movies is $1.27 billion per Star Wars Franchise Box Office History - The Numbers which leaves $1.53 billion. Deduct a conservative 50% of production budget for marketing and the movies netted less than $1 billion for Disney. In most cases marketing is closer to 80% of production cost.

You forget DVD BR sales and merchandising
 
I don't think Keanu Reeves will be starring. I'm expecting a young up and coming actor/actress. Someone they can sign to a huge multi-picture deal that won't cost an arm and a leg.

Keanu has been known to take significant pay cuts to keep the production budget low/affordable.

Reeves took a pay cut of $1 million for The Devil's Advocate so that Pacino would be cast, and he later took a 90 percent pay cut for the less successful The Replacements to guarantee the casting of Gene Hackman.”
 
TFA, RO, TLJ were all older in their runs on this day/yesterday than TROS is.
Yep and they also started from a higher point as well. TROS started low and is continuing to fall.
Both of you are correct. We just saw TRoS numbers just short of $3 million for Day 18. By comparison TLJ first fell below $3 million on Day 25 - Monday, January 8th. RO also first dropped under $3 million on Day 25 - Monday, January 9th. Notice that all 3 movies hit that number in the same spot on the calendar: the first Monday after the holidays were done and everyone was back to work and school. So in terms of release days, TRoS is dropping ahead of schedule but in terms of the calendar they are on roughly the same path as the prior 2 movies, discounting Solo.
 
Which is showing the ultimate issue with the Di$ney Star Wars...it is doing nothing to expand the Fandom and the re-watch ability is stagnant.
 
Which is showing the ultimate issue with the Di$ney Star Wars...it is doing nothing to expand the Fandom and the re-watch ability is stagnant.

Even the prequels, I re-watched a few times, but these new ones are one and done, for me, with the exception of Ep 9, which I doubt I will ever watch.
 
Will be pretty close to a billion by the end of the weekend. Movie is at 946 million should do about 15 million DOM this weekend if it does and does the same OS that would put it at 976+ what ever it does today. Should be at a billion if any thing by going into next weekend.
 
Will be pretty close to a billion by the end of the weekend. Movie is at 946 million should do about 15 million DOM this weekend if it does and does the same OS that would put it at 976+ what ever it does today. Should be at a billion if any thing by going into next weekend.

Pretty weak for a SW flick to crawl to $1B gross. People turned up for Ep 7, but once a very large portion of them realized the Disney team had nothing new to say, and that the new characters were flat and un-charismatic, they were done.
 
In regards to merch sales being lower for the sequels than the prequels, let us not forget the very fact that we never thought we were getting more than three Star Wars movies. Before the prequels I mean. I am sure merch sales if there had been no prequels would be drastically higher. I think the prequels tremendously hurt the popularity of the Star Wars brand as well. The sequels have as well, don't get me wrong. But people are not as willing the blind buy Star Wars merch as much as they were when we were more desperate for Star Wars movies. I don't think the decline in Star Wars merchandise sales means people like the sequels less than the prequels. I know no one is out right saying that, but I think that point is being inferred.

Also, in regards to the whole prequels vs. sequels thing, just because this trilogy has been an overall disappointment doesn't somehow make the prequel trilogy any better. I would agree with the sentiment that the prequel trilogy strived to tell a story different than the original trilogy will this one attempted basically to rehash it. But besides that, the newer movies have better looking production values that look more in line with the original movies, much better performances, and overall characters that are more likable than the ones presented in the prequels. Are we really going to pretend that Anakin's monologue about sand is any better today just because the last couple movies made some people upset? Garbage is garbage any day of the week.

Yep. All of Episode 2 insures that the prequels will always stay at the bottom of the barrel of Star Wars films. Episode 3 only looks better because they actually pulled the trigger on what had to be done. Dead younglings, dead Padme, maimed Anakin, a deadly Emperor...and the order 66 scene remains the strongest of the prequel trilogy for me. Had Anakin not spoken at all, the movie would have held up so much better...
 
Will be pretty close to a billion by the end of the weekend. Movie is at 946 million should do about 15 million DOM this weekend if it does and does the same OS that would put it at 976+ what ever it does today. Should be at a billion if any thing by going into next weekend.
Yeah, I can see it tipping over the billion mark next Wednesday or Thursday if domestic holds up. Deadline was pushing 17-19 for the weekend and boxoffice.com has it at 17, but the BOT crew has been getting more pessimistic as the week’s gone on and seems to be settling around 13. I’m just picking the middle at 15.
 

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