Storm, Correcting Singer, and What Exactly?

[gap5ewl]

Well i can't completely agree here and this is why...

Storm in X2 was the one thing I didnt like in the movie. Her look, her personality. Yeah she had a tender moment with Nightcrawler yeah she saved the world but when you really think about it, She really was just..there. She didn't do anything major in the plot besides fly the jet and save Professor X. Her look was horrific. Pale complexion, soccer mom look just not cool. You always got the feeling Singer was forced to give her more to do (if you notice in the original drafts of x2, She was pretty much a small character. Jean actuall had most of her original lines, She gets knocked out by toad when she tries to save the kids, and she wasnt even present when Professor X confronted the President. And this remaind until a couple of months before shooting.) All she really seemed to fit in with was the action scenes. Simply turning her eyes into cataracts and wallah tornadoes. No emotion, no not even a facial expression. I can see why Halle was displeased and Im pretty sure that unless fox intervined, Storm would've been a lot less better in X3 or just written out all together.

Now X3.. A lot of you say o she was a ghetto ***** who only agreed with what she says. Well guess what..Storm is actually a pretty arrogant character in the comics. She thinks very highly of herself and thinks she is usually right. Storm in X3 was more in line with that attitude. Plus her action scenes were very much more creative and complicated. She flies! She shoots lightning! Her emotions controlled the Wheather! Did we see this in x2 or hell x1? Well beside her coming up the elevator shaft..no (Of course her action scenes in X1 were awesome though). And wow sorry Storm has an opinion about the cure. I think if that one line she gave to Xavier was kept in (In my village there were draughts..) People would understand why she feels this way. This woman was worshipped as a godess for god's sake and now she comes to a country where they want to take away her powers!?!? Ummm I would be pissed too. I will admit though Storm telling rogue not to take the cure was not correct..but then again thats what she believes...Why should we conform to society just because they're afraid of us or because that damn Magneto has stricken fear?

I for one am very happy she had more prominence in X3 and more depth. She wasnt just there to show of her awesome powers..She had her own opinion, she tells WOlverine to quit whining about Jean and fight! She takes over the school! Now one thing I will say though is her best performance was X1. Her attitude, Her voice her powers hell even her hair (minus the bangs) Just screamed Storm. But I think if you compare her X3 role with her X2, umm drastic difference.

 

[bosef982]

But that's not what happened.

Natural Tornadoes form by spiraling downward. In that scene, a twister formed spinning northwards to meet another matching twin spinning downwards. So there were two twisters coalescing to form one. It was when the two forces struck the jet that the mis-matched inertia through it off course.

That entire sequence is unnatural--therefore it took precision on her part to make it happen. That other jet's pilot was simply quicker on the draw, but eventually, Storm created such a thick influx that it was simply overcome. Again, that was deliberate--as shown by the camera's focus on her eyes.

Desetablizing the atmosphere in ordre to make such a phoenomenon possible is not the same as causing it. Plus, as we're alreayd learning, Storm can control her powers in certain contextes depending on the variables, which I don't understanding why that is so hard for everyone else to understand.

 

[PeRfEcT_StOrM]

Well i loved storm the most in X3..she had a good wig good lines and i don't even know why this thread was opened....Ratner gave us a Storm we never had..that's that.

 

[bosef982]

Magneto was at the bridge exit onto Alcatraz. Well, Storm created the fog as cover so Beast could get behind Magneto. Everything was pretty much flattened so Magneto probably would have seen Beast sneeking around to try and get behing him. That is what the fog was for...to conceal Beast. Logan was the distraction so Beast could get close enough. Had Beast come from the front, Magneto would have stopped him.

The twirly thing had no relevance no...but it did look cool so I agree with you on that point.

Beast really didn't need to do that, as soon as Magneto was taken with Logan, Beast could've moved about easily, I think.

 

[Majik1387]

^We never had that Storm because we wanted to see a good rendition of Storm.

 

[bosef982]

Well i can't completely agree here and this is why...

Storm in X2 was the one thing I didnt like in the movie. Her look, her personality. Yeah she had a tender moment with Nightcrawler yeah she saved the world but when you really think about it, She really was just..there. She didn't do anything major in the plot besides fly the jet and save Professor X. Her look was horrific. Pale complexion, soccer mom look just not cool. You always got the feeling Singer was forced to give her more to do (if you notice in the original drafts of x2, She was pretty much a small character. Jean actuall had most of her original lines, She gets knocked out by toad when she tries to save the kids, and she wasnt even present when Professor X confronted the President. And this remaind until a couple of months before shooting.) All she really seemed to fit in with was the action scenes. Simply turning her eyes into cataracts and wallah tornadoes. No emotion, no not even a facial expression. I can see why Halle was displeased and Im pretty sure that unless fox intervined, Storm would've been a lot less better in X3 or just written out all together.

You basically just said that Halle Berry had a right to be displeased with her own inability to show emotion in Storm when portraying her....LOL. Did she show more emotion in X3, mind you?

Oh, yes, she didn't do anything big, she was just there. She just saved the world, flew the X_Men around, conjured up 20 tornados, and saved Professor X?

What else, mind you, was she suppose to do? Give me a solid example of what Storm not "just being there" would've looked like.

 

[bosef982]

Well i loved storm the most in X3..she had a good wig good lines and i don't even know why this thread was opened....Ratner gave us a Storm we never had..that's that.

Luckily my ability to open of this thread is not neccessarily related to your ability to understand it.

 

[chaseter]

Again, Storm is in synch with both the winds and her own body, allowing her to instantly and instictively adjust the pitch, speed, and direction of the wind. With Logan, she is not able to assess in anyway the stress she's putting on him. Thus, it would make sense that while she can control herself in the winds (since she's creating them) she cannot control them with Logan, since Logan is not creating them.

I said the exact same thing Bosef and have been arguing with them for over an hour and 2 pages. Glad to see someone sees her powers the same way I do...logically.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Why did Singer cut the accent from X2? Look at Halle Berry, who couldn't carry it right.

Halle's coverage of the accent sounded fine--considering she wasn't given a vocal coach in X1 (although of course Hugh was granted one).

It amuses me to hear people say "she couldn't carry the accent right" as if to say most Americans have a clear idea what a real "African" accent sounds like anyway. Truth is, there is a large plethora of dialects from the African continent (my father's family hails from Cairo and I can vouch for this personally) and Halle's accent--albeit not perfect--was certainly convincing enough (her fiercely-charged line at Logan in X1 about "join us, fight with us" was spot on--I don't care what folks say).

The problem I've observed many fans having with her accent is tied to the fact that they equate "african" accents with "dark skinned" Africans, as if to say they all have to look like Kunte Kinte to have an authentic African dialect. Because Halle's lighter complexioned some have verbalized disbelief because she so-called "doesn't look (or sound) African enough."

What the hell is that about? How does one sound...African?

That's out of Singer's control; he made the proper choice in order to maintain the overall authenticity of X2.

Singer is the director. He is in control of everything. If he was that concerned about her accent he should've gotten her a damn vocal coach already. However, we must also concede the point that FOX didn't give him a lot of time for preproduction and so corners had to be cut. But look at the damage done for that decision.

And in my opinion, X2 lost authenticity--because that's when Storm truly became "Hollywood". The clothes became more Americanized, the awful Soccer-Mom Hairdo was introduced, and the overly-powdered facial makeup was applied (notice how pale Halle looks in X2 as compared the mocha/caramel complexion of X1--what happened?). Storm became much less regal in favor of becoming more "sexy" (bouncing down the stairs with her taa-taas juggling everywhere in the camera lens). And that's how Singer views Storm--she's "Sexy"--as he summed up her character on a recent telecast.

And let's be frank: Bryan stripped Anna Paquin of her accent too. So, what was he maintaining there?

 

[Majik1387]

Uh, no.

Halle's coverage of the accent sounded fine--considering she wasn't given a vocal coach in X1 (although of course Hugh was granted one).

It's not Singer's obligation to have gotten a vocal coach for Berry.

Singer is the director. He is in control of everything.

I'd do some research on the powers of who makes a movie if I were you. Directors are never in charge of everything.

And that's how Singer views Storm--she's "Sexy"--as he summed up her character on a recent telecast.

Link please?

And let's be frank: Bryan stripped Anna Paquin of her accent too. So, what was he maintaining there?

Anna had an accent in all 3 movies, what are you talking about?

 

[bosef982]

Uh, no.

Halle's coverage of the accent sounded fine--considering she wasn't given a vocal coach in X1 (although of course Hugh was granted one).

It amuses me to hear people say "she couldn't carry the accent right" as if to say most Americans have a clear idea what a real "African" accent sounds like anyway. Truth is, there is a large plethora of dialects from the African continent (my father's family hails from Cairo and I can vouch for this personally) and Halle's accent--albeit not perfect--was certainly convincing enough (her fiercely-charged line at Logan in X1 about "join us, fight with us" was spot on--I don't care what folks say).

The problem I've observed many fans having with her accent is that they equate "african" accents with "dark skinned" africans, as if we all have to look like Kunte Kinte to have an authentic african dialect. Because Halle's lighter complexioned some have verbalized disbelief because she so-called "doesn't look (or sound) African enough."

What the hell is that about?




Singer is the director. He is in control of everything. If he was that concerned about her accent he should've gotten her a damn vocal coach already. However, we must also concede the point that FOX didn't give him a lot of time for preproduction and so corners had to be cut. But look at the damage done for that decision.

And in my opinion, X2 lost authenticity--because that's when Storm truly became "Hollywood". The clothes became more Americanized, the awful Soccer-Mom Hairdo was introduced, and the overly-powdered facial makeup was applied (notice how pale Halle looks in X2 as compared the mocha/caramel complexion of X1--what happened?). Storm became much less regal in favor of becoming more "sexy" (bouncing down the stairs with her taa-taas juggling everywhere in the camera lens). And that's how Singer views Storm--she's "Sexy"--as he summed up her character on a recent telecast.

And let's be frank: Bryan stripped Anna Paquin of her accent too. So, what was he maintaining there?

First off, don't ever question my "presumptions" of what an accent from Africa sounds like. And don't passively attempt to call me ignorant or racist, which ya' did. I'm not even going to begin to list my History B.A. or the courses I was required to take in African History, as boring as I find African history to be at times for me at least. Not my specializing period. Anyway...

Halle didn't "carry" it right has nothing to do with whether or not its authetentically "African" -- African depending on what area of Africa you're from. The Boer influence drastically changed dialects in the region, and can be noticed in some accents.

It has to do with Halle's ability to carry the accent as an actress. It was inconsitent, stunted, and at times, childlike. Not becaues of its relation to any particular dialect style from North or South Africa; it was due to her inabiilty to hold it properly, simliar to Heath Ledgers inability to balance Ennis accent right in Brokeback Mountain.

I'm not trying to start a fight, but don't come at me -- or really others -- with this whole you're ignorant and don't really know what African accents sound like. I've had 2 professors, and numerous guess speakers, who were born and raised in African who've taught and spoke at my courses.

I know what the accent sounds like, and in Halle's mouth, it just wasn't convincing.


And don't you forget, Halle Berry CHOSE the wig for X2. They brought her in samples, and she choose it. Singer deferred the choice to Halle, who is so discrminated and disused in this franchise.

So, just keep those in mind please.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Desetablizing the atmosphere in ordre to make such a phoenomenon possible is not the same as causing it.

Huh?!?!?!?

Either it's natural or it's unnatural. Either she caused it. Or she didn't. There's no other way around it. It can't be both. Or are you saying the weather was already brewing a storm and she simply manuevered it?

Skies looked pretty clear to me.

 

[bosef982]

Huh?!?!?!?

Either it's natural or it's unnatural. Either she caused it. Or she didn't. There's no other way around it. It can't be both. Or are you saying the weather was already brewing a storm and she simply manuevered it?

Skies looked pretty clear to me.

I was playing with words.

Let's see...

See, we have no real way of saying how Storm's powers work. Out of all the X-Men, they are the most unrealistic. I think Stan Lee or someone even said so. They're just odd...

But, what I'm saying is, if you destablize the atmosphere in a way (an unnatural destabliziation by Storm) you could create a chaotic environment for these torandos to move in. In her mind, she's thinking, "Let's make some chaos" and is doing whatever seh can psionically to the atmosphere to make said chaos result. She is trained to be able to manipulate the weather in certain ways, others not. She does have restraints.

So, if to be able to pilot the jet too, insteado of having absolute control, if Storm logically just creates the ideal atmosphere for freakish tornadic activity (which does occur in real life), then the bisected tornado, while unnatural, is naturally forming, get it? I think that made sense. Natural, in that its a natural produce of the unnatural weather conditions.

Unnatural is not implausible, or anywhere near impossible. It's just..."not natural." There are plenty of things in this world that are unnatural, weather patterns are a great example of one of them.

So to me, it's just an instance of luck -- inevitable as it may seem -- that the tornado formed that way for Storm, but it plays into her plan with her powers: which was to create a freakish tornado storm.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

First off, don't ever question my "presumptions" of what an accent from Africa sounds like. And don't passively attempt to call me ignorant or racist, which ya' did. I'm not even going to begin to list my History B.A. or the courses I was required to take in African History, as boring as I find African history to be at times for me at least. Not my specializing period. Anyway...

Halle didn't "carry" it right has nothing to do with whether or not its authetentically "African" -- African depending on what area of Africa you're from. The Boer influence drastically changed dialects in the region, and can be noticed in some accents.

It has to do with Halle's ability to carry the accent as an actress. It was inconsitent, stunted, and at times, childlike. Not becaues of its relation to any particular dialect style from North or South Africa; it was due to her inabiilty to hold it properly, simliar to Heath Ledgers inability to balance Ennis accent right in Brokeback Mountain.

I'm not trying to start a fight, but don't come at me -- or really others -- with this whole you're ignorant and don't really know what African accents sound like. I've had 2 professors, and numerous guess speakers, who were born and raised in African who've taught and spoke at my courses.

I know what the accent sounds like, and in Halle's mouth, it just wasn't convincing.


And don't you forget, Halle Berry CHOSE the wig for X2. They brought her in samples, and she choose it. Singer deferred the choice to Halle, who is so discrminated and disused in this franchise.

So, just keep those in mind please.

Excuse me?

In no way did I insinuate anything of the sort. No one said you held to such beliefs.

Don't take such a broad statement personally--I am more than capable of redirecting an argument specifically to you if that was my intent. That particular statement wasn't intended to be. As mentioned, it is an observation that has been chronicled on these boards (and others) for years...nothing more.

 

[PeRfEcT_StOrM]

she had a choice for a whig??!! i wonder what the other choices were?!

 

[flavio_lebeau]

her X2 looks nice imo. If they just had made the grey thing they did in X3 instead of platinum blonde, it would be great.

and here comes me again talking about frivolities when everyone else is so deep in a serious, intelligent and thoughtful arguing

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

It's not Singer's obligation to have gotten a vocal coach for Berry.

And?

I'd do some research on the powers of who makes a movie if I were you. Directors are never in charge of everything.

If you were to do an org chart for a film production you will find that the director is at the top of the heap. All the units, creative, writing, costuming, SFX--every element of that production is channeled to and funneled through his hands. At the end of the day they all answer to him because he coordinates their efforts.

Granted, the studio may try to override him on certain items, but when push comes to shove he ultimately is held responsible for the vision of that film. That's why the credits refer to the project as...."A BRYAN SINGER FILM."

Link please?

You'll have to dig back in the Official Storm thread for that information...I don't have the time at the moment to dig for it. But it was a Televised special focusing on comicdom's most popular female fiction characters. Bryan was interviewed and I believe it was aired on Bravo a year ago this time.

Anna had an accent in all 3 movies, what are you talking about?

I'm talking about X2. I recall a distinct difference in Anna's tone...it is much less "southern" than her first turn in X1. But yes, in X3, it was stronger.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

I was playing with words.

Let's see...

See, we have no real way of saying how Storm's powers work. Out of all the X-Men, they are the most unrealistic. I think Stan Lee or someone even said so. They're just odd...

But, what I'm saying is, if you destablize the atmosphere in a way (an unnatural destabliziation by Storm) you could create a chaotic environment for these torandos to move in. In her mind, she's thinking, "Let's make some chaos" and is doing whatever seh can psionically to the atmosphere to make said chaos result. She is trained to be able to manipulate the weather in certain ways, others not. She does have restraints.

So, if to be able to pilot the jet too, insteado of having absolute control, if Storm logically just creates the ideal atmosphere for freakish tornadic activity (which does occur in real life), then the bisected tornado, while unnatural, is naturally forming, get it? I think that made sense. Natural, in that its a natural produce of the unnatural weather conditions.

Unnatural is not implausible, or anywhere near impossible. It's just..."not natural." There are plenty of things in this world that are unnatural, weather patterns are a great example of one of them.

So to me, it's just an instance of luck -- inevitable as it may seem -- that the tornado formed that way for Storm, but it plays into her plan with her powers: which was to create a freakish tornado storm.

You do realize however that the likelihood of that twin twister formation forming at the exact location of that plane is highly unlikely right?

If it was only a bi-product of her "freakish tornado storm" wouldn't we be seeing other double-ended tornadoes forming in the air besides that one? Surely so. But no, we only saw that one--and it formed directly around its target. After it performed its duty, we saw no others created like it.

That's not happenstance or sheer luck Bosef--she caused that specifically.

 

[Majik1387]

And?

It's Halle's responsibility to learn how to act with an accent if the role calls for it, not the director's. Where does everyone get the idea that Singer was so obsessed with Storm having an accent and that he hated how Halle did it?

I'm talking about X2. I recall a distinct difference in Anna's tone...it is much less "southern" than her first turn in X1. But yes, in X3, it was stronger.

That's a matter of opinion but okay, maybe to you it was.

 

[chaseter]

It is a flame war in here...

 

[PeRfEcT_StOrM]

wow im at school for like a couple of hours and already there are like 20 million new threads.

 

[Boba_Fett_123]

It's not Singer's obligation to have gotten a vocal coach for Berry.

Yes, it is. He is the director, and if he wants a character to have an accent he must provide a dialect coach IF he wants the accent to be accurate. If Fox was unwilling to provide one, he should have fought to get one. And if that still didn't work, then he and Halle needed to sit down and discuss what accent they wanted, what it should sound like. And if Halle was being inconsistent, it was Singer's responsibility to tell her that. So yes, it is his obligation.

 

[Majik1387]

Yes, it is. He is the director, and if he wants a character to have an accent he must provide a dialect coach IF he wants the accent to be accurate.

No he doesn't. He can but he doesn't have to. It's part of the actor's job to get whatever they need on their own, including an accent.

And if Halle was being inconsistent, it was Singer's responsibility to tell her that. So yes, it is his obligation.

This part is true.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

It's becaues they used a wirerig that was so pathetically obvious.

Storm's flying in X3 is a general disgrace to flying scenes everywhere. A lot of it has to do with Berry's inability to NOT LOOK like she was on a wirerig, but either way, Storm's flying in X3 looks utterly unnaturaly because it's not power-related, it looks too neat for winds, as did the twirly-twist thing she does.

And that's Halle's fault? How?

* Is she responsible for the absence of fans blowing her hair every which way as she soared to the skies in Jean's neighborhood too?

* What about the lack of wind billowing her cape about in the deleted "Storm Creates A Wave" scene? Did Halle say, "Make my cape flaccid?"

* Is it her fault that no "twister wind" effects encircled her body as she spun down towards the house (yet magically reappeared as a cyclone when the camera pans behind the Brotherhood when she flies across the lawn?)

* And what happened to the lightning strands that usually course through her hair when she's "charged"? Did Ms. Berry have SFX drop that detail as well?


You peg things on the actress that should be attributed to 2nd unit and a rushed production.

Don't use X3 to justify or crituque things in X1 and X2 since they were made by different directors and are not concurrently produced productions. If anything, the question should be, how come Storm is suddenly ABLE TO FLY in X3 when she could only hover in X1 and X2?

Answer that, please.

I'll answer it in two words: Danger Room.

The entire reason that sequence was shown was to highlight the fact that the X-Men had been training for battle. Why is that an issue? Technically, she should've been doing that from jump six years ago, but whatever.

 

[TKing]

No he doesn't. He can but he doesn't have to. It's part of the actor's job to get whatever they need on their own, including an accent.

But if a director wants an accent done in a certain way, then he should organise the dialect coaching to make sure that it's done right.