The Dark Knight TDK Joker timeline (based on official photos and the trailer)

[The Battousai]

First, and foremost, this thread's purpose is not to find any "conclusive" evidence but to speculate on what might be based on what we can see with our own eyes

--Cameron

**VERY IMPORTANT UPDATE**

I am revamping the photo setup for the thread - I am substituting the photos in my posts with links to my photobucket albums currently under construction. To add to the topic of the thread, I'm including in my analysis a frame-by-frame study of the trailer in HD. When I'm done, all continuity that can then be determined without second thought will be set in stone for the purpose of debate.

--Cameron

I think it's safe to say that most people on these boards think that the Joker's makeup deteriorates throughout the movie (whether or not he has some permanence is still to be decided - there is simply not enough evidence at the moment for a clear answer either way). This point of view, however, supports the "just-wears-make-up" theory.

The converse idea is that the Joker slowly "cleans-up" as the movie progresses rather than deteriorate in appearance. This seems to support the theory that the Joker is partially perma-white.

I have decided to take upon myself the task of grouping the pictures we have of the Joker, in the various scenes, and make a competent time-line based on this idea.

Since this is an open thread, I will listen to people who have ideas on where certain pictures, and therefore, scenes, take place in the movie and re-arrange them accordingly with the logical reasoning behind the changes.

We are, of course, limited to the scenes in which the Joker resides, so we cannot make a clear picture just yet. Because of the different possibilities, I can only group the pictures right now into scenes.

In time, my brothahs...


For reference:

"Clean" Joker

Spoiler

Joker crashes the penthouse party

Joker dances with Rachel at knife-point while the goons hold all the on-lookers back at the sidelines

Joker's reaction to Rachel defending herself - Batman soon steps in

Joker shoots an RPG at a currently unknown target from what seems to be the back of his truck

Joker is getting into the car he has waiting for him - reasons and affiliations unknown

Joker being driven somewhere - possibility lies in the next photo

Joker at what seems to be a parking garage - perhaps the very same one where Scarecrow is seen making a deal in several spy photos

 

[The Battousai]

"Clean" Joker cont.

Spoiler

Joker holds what seems to be the gang leader Gambol's head (when brightened, the picture shows a glint of earring on Gambol's left ear - Loeb doesn't wear earrings) - Joker also appears to be wearing a raincoat/poncho

"Sort-of messed-up" Joker

Spoiler

Joker in semi - before truck-flip

Joker standing in the middle of a large Gotham street at night

A close-up of what appears to be a similar but possibly different sequence (distance and lighting are both different from previous)

Joker flipping a knife from one hand to the other - he may be taunting Batman

Joker is firing a machine-gun at waist level - unknown affiliation at this point

 

[The Battousai]

"Sort-of-messed-up" Joker cont.

Spoiler

Joker is in a holding cell at GPD

He is clapping his hands together in two different positions - this could mean that the clapping is significant and that it may trigger the alleged "stomach-bomb"

"****ed-up Joker"

Spoiler

Joker is egging Batman on

This seems to be a direct transfer to the cut of Batman swerving around Joker and screeching to a halt

Joker is turning to look over his shoulder

Since we see the Joker look over his shoulder while Batman speeds past in the "Batpod", this is possibly a different time that he does so

The Joker is being interrogated by Batman

We don't know yet whether Batman was allowed to do so in general, by Gordon, or if this was set up by the two without anyone's consent

Joker has been thrown across the table and into the one-way glass on the wall

He is on the ground and up against the wall.

The Joker isn't defending himself

The Joker riding in the back-seat of a police car and hanging out the left-side window

This is possibly part of an escape - it is unknown whether or not he is escaping his imprisonment in GPD

 

[Max Doobermin]

i don't know about the fully deteriorating throughout the movie, because in the car picture and in the prologue he has virtually identical make-up. it looked nice and gross in the prologue. it didn't look too worn out. to me, it looked like his skin.

 

[The Battousai]

i don't know about the fully deteriorating throughout the movie, because in the car picture and in the prologue he has virtually identical make-up. it looked nice and gross in the prologue. it didn't look too worn out. to me, it looked like his skin.

I need a good-quality pic of that reveal before I can make any assumptions - just as I wanted to do this project - to see if this idea is at all feasible

 

[Max Doobermin]

Well we can speculate all we want, but it won't be conclusive. There's no good quality pic of the reveal. You would have to go to an imax and see it for yourself.

 

[The Battousai]

Well we can speculate all we want, but it won't be conclusive. There's no good quality pic of the reveal. You would have to go to an imax and see it for yourself.

I've seen it, and it looked relatively "neat" and similar to the car pic, like you said

The sole purpose of this is to speculate on this particular topic in a constructive manner so that it's easy to analyze for those who wish to.

So far, there is very little to be evidence for much to be conclusive outside of any particular cut in the trailer - and even that is iffy in some ways.

 

[CaptainClown]

what if you have it backwards and the more ****ed up joker pics are the beginning where as the clean are the end?

 

[The Battousai]

what if you have it backwards and the more ****ed up joker pics are the beginning where as the clean are the end?

That's interesting - any ideas for this? How do you think that might play out?

 

[CaptainClown]

big confrontation with batman then put in jail, breaks out of jail shows up at the party for the fight scene. I will give it more thought another day though.

 

[Max Doobermin]

hmm. well in clownie's idea what could happen is that it IS a disease turning his skin white and that it spreads over time, making his skin more white.

I do think it gets worse over the course of the flick. Or maybe it varies. Maybe some scenes it's better, like he fixed it. And then it gets messed up. Then the next time we see him it's fixed.

 

[CaptainClown]

well I think from the prologue to the end his fleshmake up starts rubbing off.

 

[Max Doobermin]

ah, yeah maybe. so, it gets worse, and then it starts getting better. which would be confusing, then we realize it was the double layer make-up. perhaps.

 

[The Battousai]

I added your idea, CC

 

[slicendice]

why so adamant about the J man being permawhite?

 

[Max Doobermin]

I don't think that's his stance necessarily. I think he is just saying it's a possibility.

 

[The Battousai]

why so adamant about the J man being permawhite?

Adamant?

 

[Max Doobermin]

Adamant?

Persistent, stubborn.

 

[The Battousai]

Persistent, stubborn.

I know what it means, buddy I was merely questioning the use of the word - of course, you beat me to it

 

[slicendice]

"ad·a·mant, play_w("A0075800")adj. Impervious to pleas, appeals, or reason; stubbornly unyielding."

seems like some folks are still trying to convince themselves that the joker is permawhite, even though Nolan has said in interviews that it's makeup that breaks down throughout the movie.

 

[Max Doobermin]

I know what it means, buddy I was merely questioning the use of the word - of course, you beat me to it

Hehe, I come with the quickness.

"ad·a·mant, play_w("A0075800")adj. Impervious to pleas, appeals, or reason; stubbornly unyielding."

seems like some folks are still trying to convince themselves that the joker is permawhite, even though Nolan has said in interviews that it's makeup that breaks down throughout the movie.

Nolan never said that.

 

[slicendice]

Hehe, I come with the quickness.


Nolan never said that.

I seem to recall hearing that from some offical source....but whatever....

 

[Max Doobermin]

I seem to recall hearing that from some offical source....but whatever....

What you most likely recall is a quote from Michael Caine in Empire magazine in which he says something along the lines of Joker putting on make-up and then never taking it off. And then it ends up looking more like a skin disease.

I don't know if that's a fact or not. Michael Caine said it. But there's a chance Michael Caine has never read the entire script and only received his own scenes. In which case he wouldn't know much about the Joker other than the times he had seen him on set.

 

[gazzilla8000]

If the Joker is really perma-white, why would he spend so much energy trying to hide it? Wouldn't he want everyone to see? In the trailer he never once appears to be showing any white around his neck/hands/arms, and it is footage from various points of the movie.
Michael Caine even confessed it was just make-up.

Let it go guys, start getting used to it.

 

[Max Doobermin]

This isn't a perma-white thread. It's a thread trying to piece together the state of his make-up at various points throughout the movie.