The Amazing Spider-Man The Amazing Spider-Man: Box Office Thread - Part 2

[©KAW]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I think it speaks volumes that 99% of people, even ones who hated Avengers, said it was well acted.

In that case, I'm just fine being the 1%.

 

[American_Hobo]

Only $241M so far...very disappointing number I should say.
The problem I see is that this movie is TOO SIMILAR to the first movie.
Guess people thought this movie was remake of the first movie and didn't want to watch the same story again.

 

[ShadowEdgeworth]

Only $241M so far...very disappointing number I should say.
The problem I see is that this movie is TOO SIMILAR to the first movie.
Guess people thought this movie was remake of the first movie and didn't want to watch the same story again.

I wouldn't call the highest-grossing movie reboot of all time too much of a disappointment, I have to say...

 

[Lorus]

The acting is below average, come on, the film has some A-List actors (Downey, Sam L. Jackson) in it, why are they not performance as such?

We're clearly going to have agree to disagree on this point given there's no further way this can be discussed without each of us just stating our opinions.

I take it, you like the air-humping Peter Parker and the toilet paper grab in Fantastic Four, because the kids loved it, all of their little emotions were all a flutter. However, mine was not. But hey, at least they're connecting to the audience.

When you put together several of Marvel's classic heroes spanning decades, I expect more than just a Pirates of the Caribbean feel to it. Which is why I don't want Marvel anywhere near the Spider-Man films. I don't like their style of filmmaking.

I don't remember the exact scenes you're referring to but if they are executed well and benefit the characters then I'm sure I would like them. Not all humour contributes to the exploration of characters and relationships, obviously some is 'cheap' (Stark's suggestion that Banner uses weed, Peter destroying his bathroom etc) but it's entirely disingenuous to suggest that all humour is equivalent.

The humour in the Avengers is executed much more effectively than most other comic films as it is smartly written. Your demeaning the use of humour as a tool to capture humanity is ridiculous, the Greeks cottoned on to that fact centuries ago.

 

[Just one more]

I wouldn't call the highest-grossing movie reboot of all time too much of a disappointment, I have to say...

Would you agree that it is not the best received reboot?

For me, this is the biggest disappointment. The box office was always going to bring in a profit. By that I mean that SM is without a doubt one of the most well known comic book heroes, whereas characters such as Iron Man and Thor (yes I know they weren't reboots) had much more work to do as far as establishing the character goes yet they still pulled big numbers. I will always be sad that Ang Lee's Hulk didn't bring in enough to warrant a sequel.

In my mind, Spidey is a special character and in my opinion, this movie did him no justice.

God bless Spider Man
God bless Australia

 

[Spiderdevil]

The only origin films there were were Iron Man and Captain America and both were done extremely well, but Iron Man gets the edge because it was a better film overall. I don't count Thor as being an origin film at all because there couldn't really be an origin film and it was a spectacular movie. Iron Man 2 was a sequel. The Incredible Hulk dealt with the origin during the credits and it was at least better than Iron Man 2.

Except IM1,all of them were mediocre
And Yes,I consider them all Origins

 

[ShadowEdgeworth]

Would you agree that it is not the best received reboot?

For me, this is the biggest disappointment. The box office was always going to bring in a profit. By that I mean that SM is without a doubt one of the most well known comic book heroes, whereas characters such as Iron Man and Thor (yes I know they weren't reboots) had much more work to do as far as establishing the character goes yet they still pulled big numbers. I will always be sad that Ang Lee's Hulk didn't bring in enough to warrant a sequel.

In my mind, Spidey is a special character and in my opinion, this movie did him no justice.

God bless Spider Man
God bless Australia

Ahh, well it's all subjective - I for one loved TASM's more comic-style rendition of Spidey, even if everything else wasn't completely perfect. I can understand why people would not like TASM in the same way that I've seen people around the 'net and RL having a complete hatred of Batman Begins, which has arguably led to the most successful rebooted franchise of all time. Whether it does the character justice is something that we'll only be able to completely tell when TASM's sequels come along, in the same way that TDK blew BB out of the water. A similar thing could happen here.

(And for the record, I for one did like Ang Lee's Hulk, and preferred it to Incredible. )

 

[Spiderdevil]

I was merely pointing out moments in which sadness was an appropriate emotion and the film was promoting it, to illustrate that the film was written with the same care to emotions as TASM. Anecdotes are pretty meaningless, I felt no emotion after Ben or Captain Stacy's death.

Im pretty sure that the majority felt a lot sadder during Ben Parker's or George Stacy's death

How do they not add humanity though? Each and every small moment serves as proof that all these characters are driven by the same emotions as us, they help us understand what makes these people tick and do what they do. Take the friendship, not romance, between Natasha and Clint, this is shown to us organically before they share a line of dialogue. Natasha searching the monitors for Hawkeye has no point for the plot, it won't help, nobody mentions it so why did they go to the trouble of shooting it? Whedon did it because he's telling a story about people.

Taking a scene that doesn't even need any explicit moments of character, the Natasha/Clint fight, Whedon still includes it. Why doesn't the scene begin with Natasha finding Clint and end with her knocking him out, that's all it needs to do. Instead Whedon lingers on the trauma of a woman we know is near unflappable, we watch her pull herself together and then the fight can start. Rather than just have Natasha punch him out in a hollow gesture, Whedon has Clint recover and look at Natasha so we can see her choose to punch him anyway, telling us so much about their relationship.

Basically Whedon tries to do that on occasions but all it looks like is bucket load of action with a second or two of half hearted humanity showing scenes thrown in between
And as I said,the chemistry between Hawkeye and Natasha was VERY poorly developed and thats an understatement.

Your refusal to accept that comic moments offer anchors for us to see the humanity of the situation is baffling. Of course Hulk punching Thor has a meaning,

LOL What meaning??
It was only put there to get laughs,which is not bad at all BTW,Audience need the laughs

Humour is the ultimate tool for instilling humanity, it would be as silly as saying 'Peter giving his aunt eggs was just to get a cheap laugh to reference a previous scene, it has no meaning.'

Me and you both know it was never there for the laughs

I've just illustrated how Whedon obviously went out of his way to include these moments because he recognises how integral they are to the film. I'm pointing all this out to dispel the foolish notion that the Avengers is empty spectacle with little heart.

Which it is clearly
And once again it is not bad at all,its supposed to be a kids movie,which is why it earned so much

It clearly has as much 'heart' and humanity in at as TASM.

Overstatement of the year

None of those films had to go into any detail about power etc if the filmmakers didn't want to. The Avengers made sense to people who had never seen the previous films because it gave them everything they needed to know off the bat.

The Avengers was very different from Fantastic 4 or X-Men
Its supposed to be a fun movie,people dont care about the Origin,and if they did,they would have already watched the Solo Movies

It's a myth that these things need to be explained.

Not at all,Its one of the reasons that I loved X-Men:First Class and hated the first X-Men movie

Care to actually posit an argument to the contrary? Explain to my deluded self why TASM has 'heart' and the Avengers doesn't.

|
Its my story but I didnt think about the film too much after seeing it
All I thought was,Okay that was pretty fun movie,I had a lot of fun

In contrast to when I saw TDKR and TASM when I kept on thinking about the movie again and again because it had a lot of Heart and I could relate to Bruce Wayne and Peter Parker instead of just enjoying the action

 

[Spiderdevil]

Including humor doesn't mean scenes are played for laughs.

Your point about Humour being about Humanity is abosolutely right but only when the humour has sense,Like Peter stealing that Intern's batch and him getting thrown out of OSCORP,Or that couple making out in front of Peter's locker,those scenes have Heart and Humanity
But scenes like Hulk punching Thor or beating the **** out of Loki,the only purpose they served was get some laughs

So, where was the action or laughs when Fury talks to Stark and Rogers after Coulson dies?

As I said,that the only scene in the movie which tried to show the sorrow the heroes face,and even then it was so poorly worked out that the Audience hardly felt sad,you've to make the Audience really like the Character to have an effect when he is killed off,Like Webb did with Uncle Ben

Also, the writing in Avengers had many things going for it, without outright saying it. Example: Cap asks Coulson if the stars and stripes are old fashioned. In this scene, he is not talking the costume being old fashioned. He is talking about himself. The scene is about Coulson telling Cap the world still needs HIM. Not his costume. Avengers works the dialogue heavily this way so they say a lot while making them say little. THAT is good writing. Not crafting villains that have silly motives that make little sense or having crane operators randomly make Spider-Man a path for plot conveniance.

I am sorry but Loki wasnt any great either
He got beaten to a pulp so easily,makes you think that did you really need a team to get him beaten when the Hulk did it so easily.Twice he gets captured so easily(I know he meant to but still) He is hardly anything close to being intimidating and scary or a mastermind.He feels like a spoilt brat with new found powers throwing his toys around to get attention

And dont get me wrong,I still rate TA at 9/10 and TASM 8/10 but whats true is true
TA is a just a spectacle which is meant to give the audience the action and the humour which as I've been saying is not bad at all,but I dont want a Spider Man movie like that

 

[Spiderdevil]

'Emotional pull' is an incredibly vague term, what constitutes 'something with an emotional pull', why do some of the things I've described above for example fail at providing it? Is it all because of your bizarre view on the acting?

I will give you an example-The scene in which Peter is sitting in his room alone after saving that kid,we feel how much he misses his Father or When after Ben's death he sits in his room and listens to his Uncle's last voice mail

NO Scene in TA has 'Emotional pull' anything close to what those scenes had

 

[SpiderMarvelite]

TASM owns TA.

THERE I SAID IT

 

[Spiderdevil]

TASM owns TA.

THERE I SAID IT

Only in terms of being emotional involving
Not in the other aspects

 

[Jexx]

I liked The Avengers more than The Amazing Spider-Man, but I liked those two movies more than The Dark Knight Rises.

Oh, and I also loved Iron Man and Captain America: The First Avenger, and Thor and The Incredible Hulk are some of my favorite movies.

 

[Mike]

Avengers and tasm were great. But where one excels in the other film falls behind. I felt more immersed in webbs world. Though he needs to pull the camera back in some action scenes. Avengers nails the action. The humor In both films were top notch. But james horner score is more memorable. I dont remember The avengers theme.

 

[Jexx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1fiJMQV8Mc

 

[LegendaryCaleb]

TASM owns TA.

THERE I SAID IT

I 100% Agree with you
Avengers was dull to me...I'm more of a story and acting type of guy...and Avengers story was jammed and I hated most of the acting in that film apart from Downey Jr.

The Amazing Spider-Man had a ton of heart...great acting...and a good plot although some plot holes and very corny moments...

1. TDKR (In its own league) 2. TASM (The Spidey I wanted to see) 3. Avengers (Meh it was fun to look at)

 

[Tony Stark]

I wouldn't call the highest-grossing movie reboot of all time too much of a disappointment, I have to say...

Won't make as much as Star Trek.

 

[Anno_Domini]

In that case, I'm just fine being the 1%.

That's usually how it is with your opinions, lol.

Except IM1,all of them were mediocre
And Yes,I consider them all Origins

Well, they're all not definite "origins", so, you should learn that.

TASM owns TA.

THERE I SAID IT

Can I say TDKR owns them all? t:

No, but I think TAS-M owns Avengers in certain aspects, as Avengers own TAS-M in certain aspects. Between those two, there isn't a definite "winner".

 

[Jexx]

You can say that Anno, but not everyone will think it. :P

Honestly, I rate all of Nolan's Batflims the same...

 

[LegendaryCaleb]

Can I say TDKR owns them all? t:

Yes you may...and I will be there beside you agreeing with you the whole time

 

[Lorus]

Im pretty sure that the majority felt a lot sadder during Ben Parker's or George Stacy's death

The only thing that may be more meaningless than personal anecdotes is generalised comments about what the majority felt based on personal anecdotes. The fact that the moments are clearly present though prove that the film is constructed no differently than TASM in terms of how it aims to engage the audience.

Basically Whedon tries to do that on occasions but all it looks like is bucket load of action with a second or two of half hearted humanity showing scenes thrown in between
And as I said,the chemistry between Hawkeye and Natasha was VERY poorly developed and thats an understatement.

Except I've just been picking out odd moments as they occur to me, the ratio of human moments to action beats is far greater than you'd suggest (there are only really four set pieces in a film that's nearly 2 and a half hours). Furthermore, these are not scenes designed for showing humanity arbitrarily, they are moments interspersed within every scene, including action scenes, as I illustrated. The humanity is always at the forefront, just as with TASM.

They're also far from 'half hearted', the moments have set up, consistency and pay off. Natasha is sarcastic with a professional smugness in her first scene even when in danger, showing personality and humanity. Then she adopts a cautious, cynical side with evidence of real anxiety in the next, contrast allowing us to appreciate who she is as a person. Loki drags out every atrocity she's committed, throws it in her face but she holds fast (simultaneously giving us an insight into her worldview) and tries to reason and plead with Banner. All this hammers the trauma of her encounter with the Hulk home, through careful writing and planning. The opposite of 'half hearted'.

To be quite honest, the relationship between Natasha and Clint is explored to the same degree as Peter and Gwen's, which is charming but shockingly underdeveloped.

LOL What meaning??
It was only put there to get laughs,which is not bad at all BTW,Audience need the laughs

Laughs are great, I know. They also make sense and provide insight into character providing you decide to actually think about what's on the screen. Not only is the awkwardness between two co-workers who have had disagreements wonderfully human but it then shows Hulk to be of an impulsive character, uncomfortable when challenged. He's not an empty construct, he has personality and traits that people have.

Me and you both know it was never there for the laughs

I know. I was pointing out exactly how nonsensical it would be to ignore what's plainly on the screen to make a point.

Which it is clearly
And once again it is not bad at all,its supposed to be a kids movie,which is why it earned so much

No. Its spectacle is enhanced and justified by the humanity which seeps from every pore of the film. It made a lot of money because the critics recognised that fact and gave it phenomenal reviews while the audience also loved it. The Avengers is a movie to be enjoyed by kids and adults. Just like Spider-Man.

Overstatement of the year

If anything it's an understatement, the characters in the Avengers are more aptly and subtly characterised than those in TASM.

The Avengers was very different from Fantastic 4 or X-Men
Its supposed to be a fun movie,people dont care about the Origin,and if they did,they would have already watched the Solo Movies

You're right people don't care about the origin. They care about the story being told, whatever it may be. No matter how you try to contrive differences, the case is Avengers was an origin which succeeded on levels the others didn't.

Its my story but I didnt think about the film too much after seeing it
All I thought was,Okay that was pretty fun movie,I had a lot of fun

In contrast to when I saw TDKR and TASM when I kept on thinking about the movie again and again because it had a lot of Heart and I could relate to Bruce Wayne and Peter Parker instead of just enjoying the action

It seems that you chose to ignore most of the heart and emotions you could have related to in The Avengers. As I've said, these things are demonstrably present.

Your point about Humour being about Humanity is abosolutely right but only when the humour has sense,Like Peter stealing that Intern's batch and him getting thrown out of OSCORP,Or that couple making out in front of Peter's locker,those scenes have Heart and Humanity
But scenes like Hulk punching Thor or beating the **** out of Loki,the only purpose they served was get some laughs

Explain to me why an intern being dragged out of Oscorp because Peter stole his ID is a moment of genuine humanity while Steve grasping on to a minor reference point as a result of his feelings of isolation, for example doesn't count. As you said in an earlier post. You say that scenes like Hulk smashing Loki serve only to get laughs but you ignore similar parts in TASM, Peter destroys his bathroom, and the fact that the Hulk scene works as a subversion of the relatively trite and worn down tropes of the genre, which TASM play straight.

As I said,that the only scene in the movie which tried to show the sorrow the heroes face,and even then it was so poorly worked out that the Audience hardly felt sad,you've to make the Audience really like the Character to have an effect when he is killed off,Like Webb did with Uncle Ben

The audience was made to care for Coulson. We're also made to care for the characters his death affects and can appreciate the dramatic irony of the emergence of Coulson's playing cards.

I am sorry but Loki wasnt any great either
He got beaten to a pulp so easily,makes you think that did you really need a team to get him beaten when the Hulk did it so easily.Twice he gets captured so easily(I know he meant to but still) He is hardly anything close to being intimidating and scary or a mastermind.He feels like a spoilt brat with new found powers throwing his toys around to get attention

A lot of what you say regarding Loki is accurate, but his personality is consistent throughout, provides a source of conflict to drive the plot and a thematic parallel to the heroes, which is more than the Lizard does.

I will give you an example-The scene in which Peter is sitting in his room alone after saving that kid,we feel how much he misses his Father or When after Ben's death he sits in his room and listens to his Uncle's last voice mail

NO Scene in TA has 'Emotional pull' anything close to what those scenes had

I disagree, the tension as Banner slowly recounts his tale of attempted suicide is incredibly involving, among various other things.

TASM owns TA.

THERE I SAID IT

That's really not true, damn near demonstrably.

 

[spider-neil]

Won't make as much as Star Trek.

Star trek made 257m domestic and 127m overseas.
ASM domestic will pass that total (Trek domestic) in just over a week and the ASM overseas total blows the Trek overseas total out of the water and it has yet to open in certain countries. ASM is the most successful reboot in history that's a fact.

 

[Arach Knight]

Star trek made 257m domestic and 127m overseas.
ASM domestic will pass that total (Trek domestic) in just over a week and the ASM overseas total blows the Trek overseas total out of the water and it has yet to open in certain countries. ASM is the most successful reboot in history that's a fact.

That is a good point. Batman Begins didn't even gross $400 million world wide. People do not give Amazing Spider-Man enough credit considering all of the summer competition between Avengers and TDKR.

 

[Arach Knight]

Only $241M so far...very disappointing number I should say.
The problem I see is that this movie is TOO SIMILAR to the first movie.
Guess people thought this movie was remake of the first movie and didn't want to watch the same story again.

Very little was similar aside from Uncle Ben's death and Peter fighting Flash. Everything else was a unique take on the mythos. The way Peter isncharacterized,mhis boldness in going after Gwen rather than being so whiny and obsessive (sorry...but Peter saying he cried like a baby at MJ's elementary play is disturbing, not cute). People are more bothered by the film being a supossedly too recent reboot (even though the last film was five years ago and the first film was ten years ago) than any actual issues with the film itself. Was it perfect? Hardly. Was it as derivative as people profess? Again, hardly.

 

[Anno_Domini]

You can say that Anno, but not everyone will think it. :P

Honestly, I rate all of Nolan's Batflims the same...

Well if people actually believe TAS-M is leagues better than Avengers, then I would understand if some wouldn't believe TDKR is better, haha.

Yes you may...and I will be there beside you agreeing with you the whole time