The Amazing Spider-Man The Amazing Spider-Man: Box Office Thread - Part 2

[Spiderdevil]

That's a pretty low bar you've set it, and it still might not beat BB's adjusted domestic total anyway.

Overseas figures have been decent enough to justify a sequel, but the movie will have to be much better to establish a strong franchise. At least BB made everyone who saw it excited for TDK. Can the same be said of TASM? It's debatable...

It didnt make me excited,BB I mean

 

[ShadowEdgeworth]

That's a pretty low bar you've set it, and it still might not beat BB's adjusted domestic total anyway.

Overseas figures have been decent enough to justify a sequel, but the movie will have to be much better to establish a strong franchise. At least BB made everyone who saw it excited for TDK. Can the same be said of TASM? It's debatable...

You say it as if TASM has been more disliked than liked. I wouldn't say BB made everyone who saw it excited. As I said, I know people who outright hate BB, but saw TDK because of the pulling power of the Joker.

Other things can make people decide if they're excited for the sequel or not, and it's more of a gradual process. TASM didn't have that much going for it to be fair at the beginning, but after the release the movie's gotten mostly positive reviews.

Naturally, the general public were quite possibly against a reboot, but I think TASM will become more well appreciated in the time before the sequel.

 

[JKKS085]

Accounted for Inflation,the 1986 movie made almost 270M domestically

Still under what Star Trek 2009 made.
Point being TASM couldn't make for the Spider-Man franchise what ST 2009 made for the Star Trek franchise, attract more (or even as much) viewers than previous movies. So I keep thinking it's quite tricky to call it the most successfull reboot in history (although you guys are doing a terrific PR job spreading Sony's good word).

 

[JKKS085]

I'd say the reboot is only doing well though, not very well. It's kicking ass outside of the US, but in the US, it's not doing that well and quite frankly, it's disappointing when it was topped by an animated film.

It's doing well overseas mainly due to new markets and ticket price inflation. In France while Spider-Man sold 6,5 million tickets back in 2002, TASM barely sold 2 million in 4 weeks (aiming for a 2.4 million total at the end of its theatrical run).

 

[Anno_Domini]

And Obviously the whole world resides in the United States

It plays an important role on when films can actually move on for a sequel. Don't be so delusional if you think the domestic market doesn't play a huge role. When you've only made $14 million more than you're budget, that's not a great achievement.

It's a shame that you didn't get what I mean and only assume that I mean the world "resides" around the US.

If a new CBM comes out and it turns out to be good,they will say the same about it aswell,they have a small memory

Then I will applaud that CBM for being the next best thing; at least I will and you won't and will only keep saying what films were the best and not the present films that have topped them.

The last Ice Age movie grossed almost a billion so why are you so surprised?

Because an animated film topped what was supposed to be a CBM that was thought of topping the box office until TDKR was released.

 

[©KAW]

Comic book films don't usually do as well as animated films (Pixar/Dreamworks/Fox Ice-Age), anyone surprised by this is nutty. Especially a fourth film to a comic book franchise. Sorry people, but Spider-Man can't be number one at everything that consist of the character. Get over it already. A reboot, origin story and fourth film making over 650M and closing in on 700M when it finishes worldwide, is above and beyond what anyone should expect--studio or fanboy.

 

[Lorus]

Let me reframe my point
I dont want a Spider Man movie to have sole focus on Action and Humour like the Avengers

You seem to have misunderstood what I just said. The reason that no one scene is devoted to one particular character's emotional state and nothing else is not because action and humour are considered more important. It's because Whedon is balancing multiple characters and plot elements so he is more economic with his time. That's just the nature of the ensemble beast though, it's still very much about the characters and how they feel but the way that's expressed is less overt and covers multiple things in one scene.

I should also point out that action and humour are not the sole focus of the film so much as they appear to be your focus. Humour, for example, is not focused on and presented as a constructed comedic set piece, it's just a by-product of everything else. The focus of the scenes is the relationships between the characters and how they feel but humour arises due to the wit in Whedon's script. I could argue that action was the sole focus of TASM but I'd be wrong because the plot requires action and is intertwined with the characters. The same occurs in Avengers, but the spectacle is bigger.

We need more than just an Idea

A Teenage boy with powers would reveal them to the girl he likes.
Immature decision but Realistic

Because his Uncle died recently and she is trying to make him come out of the grief early

Let me elaborate on what I mean by the complexity of these relationships. I agree with you that Peter would reveal his identity to Gwen or that Gwen would invite Peter to dinner because they are attracted to each other. However, that's the extent of their relationship, they like each other. I can assume it's because they like the traits the other displays, although there is no time spent demonstrating this. It is an idea, and as you said, we need more.

With Natasha and Clint, there is an understanding as to why their relationship exists. Both of them are disconnected from others due to their profession so they find kinship in each other because of their similar attitude. We also know that as Natasha deals with her past by adopting a clinical view of events, she sees Clint as somebody she needs to help. On top of that, we know that their relationship is solidified by companionship in previous dangers. "This is like Budapest all over again"-"You and I remember Budapest very differently!"

Neither relationship is delved into very deeply, but I can better answer the question "why Clint?" or "why Natasha?" when it comes to why those characters share those scenes with each other than I can with Peter or Gwen. Their relationship is better defined.

I dont see any 'Shared human experience' in that scene

The human experience is the awkward situation that we can relate to, the response to which shows characterisation. The original point was that the moment demonstrates that the characters are human and maintain that humanity even in extreme situations. The moment is intended to be funny, it's not deep. It's also far from empty or devoid of humanity.

I made my point earlier on
Avengers has humanity,definitely a lot more than Transformers but the main focus is Action and Humour and while that looked good in TA,I dont want to see that in a Spider-Man movie
All aspects i.e Action,Humour,Drama and Emotion should get equal focus.Which is why I consider SM2 as a perfect comic book movie

As I mentioned before, action and humour aren't the main focus of the Avengers. Character is, all the humour, drama and emotion come from that. It's discouraging that you don't see that the majority of the comic moments exist to serve the drama and emotion. Saying humour is a main point is reductionist and not a fair assessment of Whedon's film. However, it's cool to know we both think highly of Spider-Man 2.

But SM1 was a lot more kid friendly

Perhaps. It doesn't change the fact that both The Avengers and TASM are films aimed at a broad audience, kids and adults.

Disagree
But its all about opinions

Indeed. I personally think Webb's characters are more broad in that they adopt attributes they need for the story but feel more 'free'. Their worldviews are more vague, their lines aren't as definitive as, say, "I'm always angry" or "Love is for children. I owe him a debt".

To be honest,I dont remember that scene

Would it be totally out of line to suggest that much of your disagreement comes from vague recollections of scenes?

Actually on the contrary,I felt that montage was great but ended quickly,should have been longer imo

Montage? I was talking about the scene in which he awakes on the subway, is confused and accidently starts a fight with the carriage. That established he didn't know his own abilities or strength, was confused and was played for laughs. My point was it made the other scene redundant.

 

[spider-neil]

That's a pretty low bar you've set it, and it still might not beat BB's adjusted domestic total anyway.

Overseas figures have been decent enough to justify a sequel, but the movie will have to be much better to establish a strong franchise. At least BB made everyone who saw it excited for TDK. Can the same be said of TASM? It's debatable...

Is that true? My excitement for TDK had next to nothing to do with BB which I thought was a very dull movie, it was only hype for Ledger that got me pumped for the sequel.

 

[©KAW]

When does the movie open in China or has it already?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

At the end of August I believe.

 

[©KAW]

Damn, seem so far away from the other release dates.

I need an exact release date for China.

 

[Spiderdevil]

It plays an important role on when films can actually move on for a sequel. Don't be so delusional if you think the domestic market doesn't play a huge role. When you've only made $14 million more than you're budget, that's not a great achievement.

Others factors came into play,which wont be around when the Sequel arrives
So they wont mind

Then I will applaud that CBM for being the next best thing; at least I will and you won't and will only keep saying what films were the best and not the present films that have topped them.

No offence but I have my own opinion rather than following the opinion of the Critics
Its my opinion that neither of TDKR or TA tops TDK or SM2.
I will definitely admit it when a new comic comes out and it ends up topping them(In may 2014 hopefully ) Like I admitted TDK was better than SM2

Because an animated film topped what was supposed to be a CBM that was thought of topping the box office until TDKR was released.

That was the general opinion but it wasnt a complete shocker that it didnt either

 

[Spiderdevil]

You seem to have misunderstood what I just said. The reason that no one scene is devoted to one particular character's emotional state and nothing else is not because action and humour are considered more important. It's because Whedon is balancing multiple characters and plot elements so he is more economic with his time. That's just the nature of the ensemble beast though, it's still very much about the characters and how they feel but the way that's expressed is less overt and covers multiple things in one scene.

Agreed

I should also point out that action and humour are not the sole focus of the film so much as they appear to be your focus. Humour, for example, is not focused on and presented as a constructed comedic set piece, it's just a by-product of everything else. The focus of the scenes is the relationships between the characters and how they feel but humour arises due to the wit in Whedon's script.

Sole focus maybe not but definitely the main focus

I could argue that action was the sole focus of TASM but I'd be wrong because the plot requires action and is intertwined with the characters. The same occurs in Avengers, but the spectacle is bigger.

Dont agree,the action was the least in all 4 spider-man movies

Let me elaborate on what I mean by the complexity of these relationships. I agree with you that Peter would reveal his identity to Gwen or that Gwen would invite Peter to dinner because they are attracted to each other. However, that's the extent of their relationship, they like each other. I can assume it's because they like the traits the other displays, although there is no time spent demonstrating this.

Thats the most you can do with relationships in a CBM,its not a romantic movie
The Sequel will me much more crucial to their relationship,especially if they do Gwen Stacy's death

With Natasha and Clint, there is an understanding as to why their relationship exists. Both of them are disconnected from others due to their profession so they find kinship in each other because of their similar attitude. We also know that as Natasha deals with her past by adopting a clinical view of events, she sees Clint as somebody she needs to help. On top of that, we know that their relationship is solidified by companionship in previous dangers. "This is like Budapest all over again"-"You and I remember Budapest very differently!"

I was always confused about their relationship,was it romantic? Or just friendship?

The human experience is the awkward situation that we can relate to, the response to which shows characterisation. The original point was that the moment demonstrates that the characters are human and maintain that humanity even in extreme situations. The moment is intended to be funny, it's not deep. It's also far from empty or devoid of humanity.

Why would the hulk punch thor like that?
Its a pretty strange way to claim domination

As I mentioned before, action and humour aren't the main focus of the Avengers. Character is, all the humour, drama and emotion come from that. It's discouraging that you don't see that the majority of the comic moments exist to serve the drama and emotion. Saying humour is a main point is reductionist and not a fair assessment of Whedon's film. However, it's cool to know we both think highly of Spider-Man 2.

It felt like that to me,however I saw the movie only once
I may change my opinion after watching it again

Would it be totally out of line to suggest that much of your disagreement comes from vague recollections of scenes?

As I said,I'll have to see it again
But I am still of strong opinion that the Human element is more focused in TASM,it isnt just called the 'most human superhero movie' for nothing

Montage? I was talking about the scene in which he awakes on the subway, is confused and accidently starts a fight with the carriage. That established he didn't know his own abilities or strength, was confused and was played for laughs. My point was it made the other scene redundant.

I meant the montage in which he breaks his Alarm clock and his bathroom,It should have been longer imo
Also they seems to cut a part of him making the webshooters and the costumes,And also him practicing his move on a skateboard,there is a scene where he jumps on top of a couple of cars and then lands on his skateboard perfectly(Saw it in the Imax trailer-Pretty impressive it was) and another on where he is skating and and jumps to dodge a car and lands on top of a Lamp post
Pity they cut all that,those are the precise moments I like,the way a high schooler deals with his powers.Hope they make an extended cut

 

[Lorus]

Sole focus maybe not but definitely the main focus

I maintain that the characters are the most important aspect of the film. The humour is entirely dependent on character to work. I accept that action was an element that the film does intend to make bigger than previous comic films, but at the end of the day, action set pieces are a staple of the genre. So even though action was undoubtedly a priority for Whedon, I disagree that it's the main focus of his film. We appear to have reached an agreement though about the film not being empty spectacle so I've pretty much achieved my goal.

Dont agree,the action was the least in all 4 spider-man movies

I wasn't saying I thought action was the most important aspect of those films, I was saying that that would be a reductionist view of the films.

Thats the most you can do with relationships in a CBM,its not a romantic movie
The Sequel will me much more crucial to their relationship,especially if they do Gwen Stacy's death

I disagree that that's the most you could do in a comic film. Peter and Mary Jane in Spider-Man/Spider-Man 2 or Tony and Pepper in Iron Man had a reasonably well developed relationship. My criticisms of the Peter/Gwen relationship are that given the amount of screen time it gets and the likely plans for the sequel, it should be better realised. It also damages my emotional investment in them if I can't understand it on a level beyond mutual attraction. Hence my preference and appreciation of the closest relationship in The Avengers (barring Tony and Pepper).

I was always confused about their relationship,was it romantic? Or just friendship?

It was a close friendship, nothing to suggest it was romantic but some people will swear it was. I think those people just assume that because of comic history.

Why would the hulk punch thor like that?
Its a pretty strange way to claim domination

The Hulk's impulsive and uncomfortable with standing equal ground with someone equally strong and he knows Thor can take it.

It felt like that to me,however I saw the movie only once
I may change my opinion after watching it again

I hope it will. As I've tried to suggest through copious examples, I think the evidence is there.

As I said,I'll have to see it again
But I am still of strong opinion that the Human element is more focused in TASM,it isnt just called the 'most human superhero movie' for nothing

TASM might well have a more focused human element, being a solo film does provide that focus, but my argument was not so much about diminishing the impact of TASM as it was trying to prove that the Avengers possessed a lot of humanity also. It all harks back to my defense of the Avengers being 'lesser' due to a perceived emptiness.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Others factors came into play,which wont be around when the Sequel arrives
So they wont mind

At least you hope. I am one to wish TAS-M is only like Webb's Batman Begins where the gross isn't that great until the sequel, but TAS-M hasn't made $50 million more its budget yet.

No offence but I have my own opinion rather than following the opinion of the Critics
Its my opinion that neither of TDKR or TA tops TDK or SM2.
I will definitely admit it when a new comic comes out and it ends up topping them(In may 2014 hopefully ) Like I admitted TDK was better than SM2

You have your opinion but yet you kept saying TDKR would be awful only because of 30 negative reviews

Of course you would admit such a thing if Spider-Man becomes that next movie, but it's biased to not say The Avengers or TDKR only because it came out the same year as TAS-M and it's not what some expected.

By the way, will spida-man ever show up and mention how his "mark my words" post never came to fruition? Lol.

That was the general opinion but it wasnt a complete shocker that it didnt either

Do you think Raimi's trilogy would have ever been topped though? Or Nolan's Batfilms?

 

[AvengeME]

Agree with moving the date to 2015

And if Avengers 2 or Hulk 3 take early May again? Okay you can argue Spidey over Hulk, but it's not as big a gap in popularity as it was back in 04'-07'. Avengers 2 will push Spidey out of any slot. Sony can not sit with their thumbs up their butt and let other studios control their fate. They need to secure these dates.

 

[AF3619]

And if Avengers 2 or Hulk 3 take early May again? Okay you can argue Spidey over Hulk, but it's not as big a gap in popularity as it was back in 04'-07'. Avengers 2 will push Spidey out of any slot. Sony can not sit with their thumbs up their butt and let other studios control their fate. They need to secure these dates.

Well true but what if they rush the work for TASM 2 and we get a bad sequel

 

[Jexx]

And if Avengers 2 or Hulk 3 take early May again? Okay you can argue Spidey over Hulk, but it's not as big a gap in popularity as it was back in 04'-07'. Avengers 2 will push Spidey out of any slot. Sony can not sit with their thumbs up their butt and let other studios control their fate. They need to secure these dates.

You mean TIH2 not Hulk 3 don't you?

 

[Spiderdevil]

Still under what Star Trek 2009 made.
Point being TASM couldn't make for the Spider-Man franchise what ST 2009 made for the Star Trek franchise, attract more (or even as much) viewers than previous movies. So I keep thinking it's quite tricky to call it the most successfull reboot in history (although you guys are doing a terrific PR job spreading Sony's good word).

2nd most successful reboot after Star Trek
Fact

 

[Spiderdevil]

It's doing well overseas mainly due to new markets and ticket price inflation. In France while Spider-Man sold 6,5 million tickets back in 2002, TASM barely sold 2 million in 4 weeks (aiming for a 2.4 million total at the end of its theatrical run).

And in India it smashed all the records held by Hollywood movies

Its all about perception,it did better in many countries and worse in some

 

[Spiderdevil]

We appear to have reached an agreement though about the film not being empty spectacle so I've pretty much achieved my goal.

Definitely not,there is a reason why it is rated 91% by critics than mid 50s like Transformers

I disagree that that's the most you could do in a comic film. Peter and Mary Jane in Spider-Man/Spider-Man 2 or Tony and Pepper in Iron Man had a reasonably well developed relationship. My criticisms of the Peter/Gwen relationship are that given the amount of screen time it gets and the likely plans for the sequel, it should be better realised. It also damages my emotional investment in them if I can't understand it on a level beyond mutual attraction. Hence my preference and appreciation of the closest relationship in The Avengers (barring Tony and Pepper).

Its definitely nothing mature,just a ordinary crush.Thats the most we can expect from 17 year olds
As we saw,they broke up in the end.We will see more about the relationship in the sequel

TASM might well have a more focused human element, being a solo film does provide that focus, but my argument was not so much about diminishing the impact of TASM as it was trying to prove that the Avengers possessed a lot of humanity also. It all harks back to my defense of the Avengers being 'lesser' due to a perceived emptiness.

The main reason why I dont want Marvel to own Spider-man rights is actually different
Now that they have seen the potential a brand like The Avengers has at the box-office,I feel they will make the solo movie act like trailers to build up the hype to TA2
It makes sense from their point of view aswell,Whats the use of making a 250M Spider man movie when at the most it will gross a billion? From a business point of view it seems right for them to make a say 150M low budget Spidey movie and invest the 100M saved in TA2 which has a much better chance to gross 1.5 Billion plus or even 2 Billion

 

[Spiderdevil]

At least you hope. I am one to wish TAS-M is only like Webb's Batman Begins where the gross isn't that great until the sequel, but TAS-M hasn't made $50 million more its budget yet.

It would have made near 260M more than BB overseas and near 15M more than it domestically
So thats 275M more than BB and the budget is about 65M more than BB(All figures after accounting for Inflation)
So yes it has done much better than BB Box Office wise

You have your opinion but yet you kept saying TDKR would be awful only because of 30 negative reviews

When the **** did I say that?
I myself liked the movie so why would I say that

Of course you would admit such a thing if Spider-Man becomes that next movie, but it's biased to not say The Avengers or TDKR only because it came out the same year as TAS-M and it's not what some expected.

My opinion about TA or TDKR has nothing to do with TAS-M releasing the same year.
Again you are making stuff up

Do you think Raimi's trilogy would have ever been topped though? Or Nolan's Batfilms?

Both of them are extremely difficult to top
And I would say the Avengers has topped them till the sequel ends up making the same kind of money

 

[Lorus]

Definitely not,there is a reason why it is rated 91% by critics than mid 50s like Transformers

Glad to see we could have this discussion respectably and reach an agreement. It was fun debating with you.

Its definitely nothing mature,just a ordinary crush.Thats the most we can expect from 17 year olds
As we saw,they broke up in the end.We will see more about the relationship in the sequel

I disagree that that's all you can expect from them, considering they show maturity beyond what you might expect from a normal 17 year old. I won't begrudge the point though because it was well acted and it seems to have charmed the world.

The main reason why I dont want Marvel to own Spider-man rights is actually different
Now that they have seen the potential a brand like The Avengers has at the box-office,I feel they will make the solo movie act like trailers to build up the hype to TA2
It makes sense from their point of view aswell,Whats the use of making a 250M Spider man movie when at the most it will gross a billion? From a business point of view it seems right for them to make a say 150M low budget Spidey movie and invest the 100M saved in TA2 which has a much better chance to gross 1.5 Billion plus or even 2 Billion

That's an understandable concern. I personally am hoping that after the success of Avengers, Marvel Studios will be more willing to branch out with what they do with their solo characters because they'll have earned the patience of the audience. However, there's a worrying notion that they may take a 'if it's not broken, don't fix it' approach which would be terrible. I guess we'll have to see what Iron Man 3 and Thor 2 look like next year.

 

[JKKS085]

2nd most successful reboot after Star Trek
Fact

Glad we got that cleared then. However, profitability speaking TASM has yet to overtake Batman Begins (and it wasn't as well received overall).

And in India it smashed all the records held by Hollywood movies

Its all about perception,it did better in many countries and worse in some

Well you probably overlooked (among many other things) when I wrote about new markets. The indian governement created in the past few years a tax incentive to help multiplexes that created a huge multiplex boom all over the country. The distribution of foreign movies over there is nothing like it was back in 2002.

Really it has very little to do with perception, the movie tanked on huge historical foreign markets (UK, France, Germany ...) despite ticket price inflation and performed quite well on new markets fond of 3D movies (South America, Asia, Russia ...). It's the Alice in Wonderland or Pirates of the Carribean 4 syndrom all over again.

 

[sontin]

India is a bad example because TASM won't beat Spider-Man 3.