The Amazing Spider-Man The Amazing Spider-Man: Box Office Thread - Part 2

[Kahran Ramsus]

And without Raimi there would be no Begins.

Possibly. Raimi's film was greatly influential too, possibly the most influential superhero film ever. WB seeing how much money Spider-Man made probably had at least some impact on their decision to greenlight Batman Begins.

But I was specifically responding to somebody saying that Batman Begins didn't have any impact on the genre, which is certainly not true.

Yes, a fourth Spider-Man movie would have been made regardless of Nolan. But it would have been very different. The grounded approach and the decision to reboot the franchise was an obvious attempt to mimic Batman Begins. So this particular Spider-Man movie wouldn't have been made without it.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

That's where you fail. While Kahran Ramsus gives a detail outline of what many people think, you assume TAS-M is better just because of your rating.

I don't care if somebody likes a film or not. But when people start claiming things like most people prefer one film over another, that can be shown. One site might be an outlier and some sites I believe to me more accurate (ex. Rotten Tomatoes) than others (ex. IMDB), but when they ALL consistently rate TDKR roughly 10-15 percent higher than TASM then it is pretty safe to say that TDKR was more popular.

If somebody thinks that one film is a better is not, then say 'I think Film A is better than Film B'. If you like Transformers better than Citizen Kane, that's your business, even if I disagree with you. If you say that most people prefer Film A, then absolutely you better be able to back it up.

In this case Spiderdevil claimed that most people did not think that TDKR was substantially better than TASM. So TASM even getting similar reviews and ratings to TDKR would have been enough to prove his claim. But this is not the case. TDKR has been getting better reviews and higher ratings pretty much across the board. Sure the odd critic or fan disagrees, but as a collective TDKR is considered to be quite a bit better and the numbers I posted show it.

 

[JKKS085]

It wasn't going to match it either. It's absurd to think TDKR would have. It could've gotten close and much closer without the shooting happening, but never match.

People saying TDKR could have matched The Avengers were delusionnal. SERIOUS projections (before the Aurora events) putted the OWE behind TA's by at least 17 millions and then the shooting happened.
It was just arithmetically impossible for TDKR, even with stronger midnight showings, to make up for the lack of 3D with pretty much the same theater count.

And I feel it hasn't. At least domestically in the states. Foreign; it was always going to be a home run because it's Spider-Man simply put, but it's a let down in the states.

It sure hasn't considering how much money Sony spent to produce the movie. That's not even up to debate.
Then again you can find statements from the studio saying they were soooo happy with how the film performed but you can read the exact same PR BS from the exact same guys about Total Recall's terrible OWE. I don't know how anyone can take this seriously.

 

[Spiderdevil]

It wasn't going to match it either. It's absurd to think TDKR would have. It could've gotten close and much closer without the shooting happening, but never match.

It was expected to and it failed by a big margin

And I feel it hasn't. At least domestically in the states. Foreign; it was always going to be a home run because it's Spider-Man simply put, but it's a let down in the states.

How easily you belittle its overseas achivements
It didnt meet domestic expectations by 30-40M and exceeded foreign earnings by the same amount meaning it met its expectations overall unlike TDKR

Did you ask the 7 billion what they thought about Avengers as well? Let me know what they thought.

They thought it was better than TDKR

$300-$400 would be what I would assume TAS-M's expectations domestically would be, but one could also say it should've brought in more money than that.

400M? That is ridiculous
SM3 had 336M after all it hype so realistic expectations would be around 50M less than that for TASM i.e around 285M

How in the hell is $1.1 billion disappointing for any movie? And who said it should make more than TDK?

It should have..Like SM3 did
And by your own opinion its even better than TDK

Spidey movies will obviously keep coming, but to be blind and say BB had nothing to do with TAS-M is hilarious.

Its not
Raimi already tested the fun tone,there obviously wont go the same way in the reboot,they went the realistic way(Not dark) and Nolan's Batman is Dark
They would always change the tone,BB had nothing to do with it
You expected them to go with the same tone Raimi did?

And the reboot inspiration itself is from Batman Begins

Who said that?
Once again the movie is not Dark like Nolan's,Its only realistic
It doesnt have an newly created love interest,it doesnt have ****** action and shaky cam,Spidey doesnt have a made up over dramatic voice
Its nothing like BB

which has been said to influence MANY reboots.

Like?

 

[Arach Knight]

It sure hasn't considering how much money Sony spent to produce the movie. That's not even up to debate.
Then again you can find statements from the studio saying they were soooo happy with how the film performed

And what if they are pleased? Domestically, the film grossed more than its production budget. Only people online have complained about the domestic take. How many films tank in their native country, but are saved by DVD sales or an amazing foreign run? More importantly, this film didn't tank, not even domestically. So what does that convey about status of the film?

With that said, this film has already been a colossal success on a global scale, which matters most. The really odd thingis that it seems that people forget that Sony is a Japanese company. Why would a Japanese company care that the film didn't receive the highest gross in America? They don't care about from where profit derives as much as they care about how much profit is derived.

Furthermore, why is the domestic take for a single country (The United States of America) being stacked up against the foreign take for the rest of the world, which consists of dozens of other countries? I assure you that on a country by country comparison, Americans spent the most money watching this film. Perhaps not per capita but certainly in gross. It makes absolutely no sense to complain that Americans can't outspend a dozen other countries combined. Get real. Even TDKR has a better foreign performance, and it has several delayed foreign releases. This is a global society, like it or not. Most films won't make their money at home. Not the ones with blockbuster budgets anyways.

I love the passion and knowledge of the people here on hype, but in my five years (this is my second account under this name) of being a member, I am always surprised by how much complaining people do. Nothing can ever be god enough, nor can success ever be success. There is always some sort of caveat here on Hype. The film is near $700 million in revenue off of a $230 million budget. It grossed more than three times its budget, yet people such as yourself have found a way to even claim that such a victory is disappointing. I assure you, being content from time to time is a more joyful endeavor.

 

[Spiderdevil]

Possibly. Raimi's film was greatly influential too, possibly the most influential superhero film ever. WB seeing how much money Spider-Man made probably had at least some impact on their decision to greenlight Batman Begins.

So basically by your own logic BB was influenced by SM1 and TASM was influenced by BB
So basically TASM was unfluenced by SM1
Glad we got that cleared

Yes, a fourth Spider-Man movie would have been made regardless of Nolan. But it would have been very different. The grounded approach and the decision to reboot the franchise was an obvious attempt to mimic Batman Begins. So this particular Spider-Man movie wouldn't have been made without it.

The franchise was obviously going to be rebooted sometime and when it would be,they would obviously change the tone to differentiate it

This would have happened with or without BB

 

[Spiderdevil]

In this case Spiderdevil claimed that most people did not think that TDKR was substantially better than TASM. So TASM even getting similar reviews and ratings to TDKR would have been enough to prove his claim. But this is not the case. TDKR has been getting better reviews and higher ratings pretty much across the board. Sure the odd critic or fan disagrees, but as a collective TDKR is considered to be quite a bit better and the numbers I posted show it.

You have an idea about the biasness associated with the reboot dont you?
To give you an idea TDKR and TASM have the same Top Critic percentage on RT.I trust top critics to be unbiased and they rate them both the same

 

[Spiderdevil]

. The really odd thingis that it seems that people forget that Sony is a Japanese company. Why would a Japanese company care that the film didn't receive the highest gross in America? They don't care about from where profit derives as much as they care about how much profit is derived.

Win!!

Furthermore, why is the domestic take for a single country (The United States of America) being stacked up against the foreign take which consists of dozens of other countries?

Win!!

I love the passion and knowledge of the people here on hype, but in my five years (this is my second account under this name) of being a member, I am always surprised by how much complaining people do. Nothing can ever be god enough, nor can success ever be success. There is always some sort of caveat here on Hype. The film is near $700 million in revenue off of a $230 million budget. It grossed more than three times its budget, yet people such as yourself have found a way to even claim that such a victory is disappointing. I assure you, being content from time to time is a more joyful endeavor.

Both Anno and Chaseter are pessismistic as hell
They try to make BB as a bigger success financially when realistically it will have almost only half of what TASM will earn at the end of its run

 

[AF3619]

Both Anno and Chaseter are pessismistic as hell
They try to make BB as a bigger success financially when realistically it will have almost only half of what TASM will earn at the end of its run

just curiosity , are they Nolanites?

 

[Spiderdevil]

just curiosity , are they Nolanites?

You got it

 

[Picard Sisko]

There is no point in arguing about whether or not one movie would exist without the other. Nothing is 100% original these days, because everything that could be done has been done in some shape or form. Without the first Spider-Man movie, many other comic book films wouldn't have been made either. Even if BB influenced TASM, so what? TASM is a very different movie. The only similarity is that it is a reboot, and origin story. Its not like BB is the first reboot ever to be made.

 

[Spiderdevil]

And Daredevil used the 'Dark' tone even before BB
So was BB influenced by Daredevil?

People act if Nolan invented that tone
Next they will ask a part of the box office gross to be given to him

 

[Picard Sisko]

 

[AF3619]

And Daredevil used the 'Dark' tone even before BB
So was BB influenced by Daredevil?

People act if Nolan invented that tone
Next they will ask a part of the box office gross to be given to him

 

[Anno_Domini]

I don't care if somebody likes a film or not. But when people start claiming things like most people prefer one film over another, that can be shown. One site might be an outlier and some sites I believe to me more accurate (ex. Rotten Tomatoes) than others (ex. IMDB), but when they ALL consistently rate TDKR roughly 10-15 percent higher than TASM then it is pretty safe to say that TDKR was more popular.

If somebody thinks that one film is a better is not, then say 'I think Film A is better than Film B'. If you like Transformers better than Citizen Kane, that's your business, even if I disagree with you. If you say that most people prefer Film A, then absolutely you better be able to back it up.

In this case Spiderdevil claimed that most people did not think that TDKR was substantially better than TASM. So TASM even getting similar reviews and ratings to TDKR would have been enough to prove his claim. But this is not the case. TDKR has been getting better reviews and higher ratings pretty much across the board. Sure the odd critic or fan disagrees, but as a collective TDKR is considered to be quite a bit better and the numbers I posted show it.

Agree

People saying TDKR could have matched The Avengers were delusionnal. SERIOUS projections (before the Aurora events) putted the OWE behind TA's by at least 17 millions and then the shooting happened.
It was just arithmetically impossible for TDKR, even with stronger midnight showings, to make up for the lack of 3D with pretty much the same theater count.

Agree. Without the shooting, though, I believe TDKR's total gross would have an extra $30-40 million, but still...that is not enough to match Avenger's.

It sure hasn't considering how much money Sony spent to produce the movie. That's not even up to debate.
Then again you can find statements from the studio saying they were soooo happy with how the film performed but you can read the exact same PR BS from the exact same guys about Total Recall's terrible OWE. I don't know how anyone can take this seriously.

Yah, I am aware of Avi Arad saying they didn't expect Sam Raimi's numbers, but no one expects their movie to only make about $14 million more than their budget domestically, especially when it's a Spider-Man flick.

It was expected to and it failed by a big margin

Wrong and wrong. It wasn't expected and there wasn't an essential "margin" to say TDKR has failed with anything.

How easily you belittle its overseas achivements
It didnt meet domestic expectations by 30-40M and exceeded foreign earnings by the same amount meaning it met its expectations overall unlike TDKR

How easily your memory goes. I have praised TAS-M's foreign accomplishments as it's the only thing TAS-M can be praised for.

They thought it was better than TDKR

Cool story.

400M? That is ridiculous
SM3 had 336M after all it hype so realistic expectations would be around 50M less than that for TASM i.e around 285M

You just said before that TDKR should've made more than S-M 3, but you're saying TAS-M shouldn't?

It should have..Like SM3 did
And by your own opinion its even better than TDK

Because, imo, it is. But I understand that the majority doesn't think so, which is fine, but at least the majority also believe TDKR to be a huge success.

Its not
Raimi already tested the fun tone,there obviously wont go the same way in the reboot,they went the realistic way(Not dark) and Nolan's Batman is Dark
They would always change the tone,BB had nothing to do with it
You expected them to go with the same tone Raimi did?

There are many broader aspects to go instead of overly light and overly dark. Raimi went one direction and Webb went the other instead of trying to have a blend of mixtures and tones which coincidentally is after Nolan's trilogy.

Who said that?
Once again the movie is not Dark like Nolan's,Its only realistic
It doesnt have an newly created love interest,it doesnt have ****** action and shaky cam,Spidey doesnt have a made up over dramatic voice
Its nothing like BB

GREAT REASONS!

Like?

Impact

Shawn Adler of MTV stated Batman Begins heralded a trend of darker genre films, that either retold back-stories or rebooted them altogether. Examples he cited were Casino Royale, as well as the in-development RoboCop, Red Sonja, and Grayskull. Filmmakers, screenwriters and producers who have mentioned the film to describe their projects include: Jon Favreau and Iron Man, Edward Norton and The Incredible Hulk, McG and Terminator Salvation (which also stars Bale), Damon Lindelof and Star Trek, Robert Downey, Jr. and Sherlock Holmes, Lorenzo di Bonaventura and G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra, Hugh Jackman and X-Men Origins: Wolverine, Matthew Vaughn and X-Men: First Class, Rupert Wyatt and Rise of the Planet of the Apes, Kevin Tancharoen and Mortal Kombat. Entertainment Weekly has cited Batman Begins as an inspiration for both the reinventing, as well as the tone for the recently released Amazing Spider-Man.

 

[Picard Sisko]

TASM wasn't anything very memorable, once again because it was a setup film. It wasn't huge, but it was entertaining, and made me look forward to the sequel. Hopefully the next movie really helps the franchise grow. You know what they say: "Big things have small beginnings."

 

[Anno_Domini]

just curiosity , are they Nolanites?

Except that fact that we never brought up Batman Begins first. Only other posters trying to make comparisons only because we say TAS-M didn't do that well.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Except that fact that we never brought up Batman Begins first. Only other posters trying to make comparisons only because we say TAS-M didn't do that well.

TASM did pretty well. I don't know who brought up BB, but I'm tired of talking about it. Let's move on.

 

[Anno_Domini]

TASM did pretty well. I don't know who brought up BB, but I'm tired of talking about it. Let's move on.

Foreign, yes.

But then that causes "Webbheads" to say "It did better than Batman Begins". And we get accused for bringing up BB

 

[Arach Knight]

Both Anno and Chaseter are pessismistic as hell
They try to make BB as a bigger success financially when realistically it will have almost only half of what TASM will earn at the end of its run

That's the funny thing. TASM is the more successful reboot of the two. Begins was made for $150 million amd grossed $372 million. It grossed two and a half times its budget. Amazing Spider-Man was made for $230 million and has currently grossed $680 million, just shy of three times its budget. Even when not looking at proportion, TASM flat out made more money, period. It is the second most successful movie reboot (the first being Casino Royale). I don't get where there is room to complain about the film's revenue.

Oerhaps these gentlemen (or ladies) should resolve to stay out of this thread. It is absolute foolishness to claim financial disappointment for a film that has performed so well in the marketplace. Now liking the film is subjective and an entirely different discussion. I am open to people saying whatever they feel in that scenario, but making subjective claims about hard facts...it is unwise and unbecoming of individuals who I am certain are more intelligent, rational and capable than they are letting on.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Foreign, yes.

But then that causes "Webbheads" to say "It did better than Batman Begins". And we get accused for bringing up BB

I don't count whether or not its domestic or foreign. Worldwide counts for me, so financially it did do better than BB overall. But I don't really care about that, as long as a film makes enough money to produce a sequel.

 

[Picard Sisko]

The whole argument of BB vs. TASM is sucking out all of the fun of being on this forum.

 

[AF3619]

I don't count whether or not its domestic or foreign. Worldwide counts for me, so financially it did do better than BB overall. But I don't really care about that, as long as a film makes enough money to produce a sequel.

exactly!

 

[Jexx]

Foreign, yes.

But then that causes "Webbheads" to say "It did better than Batman Begins". And we get accused for bringing up BB

Actually, it did pretty well domestically also. Not in the range of The Avengers or The Dark Knight Rises, but compared to other films and comic book movies it still did pretty darn well domestically.

 

[The Sage]

Folks, let's move back on topic. Leave the Batman films vs Spider-Man films stuff where it is.