The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Part 1

Discussion in 'The Avengers Sequels' started by Thread Manager, Jan 14, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Dark Raven

    Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    46,752
    Likes Received:
    79
    In the UK if you talk about the Avengers it means something different from the Marvel comic. Everyone associates it with Steed and Mrs Peel - hence why it was renamed. The average moviegoer over here doesn't even know there is a Marvel team by that name. For all intents and purposes it is seen as just a big team up event movie. You can doubt all you like, but just ask any non comic fan over here.
     
    #276
  2. Mr. Dent

    Mr. Dent Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    8,941
    Likes Received:
    0
    I wasn't talking about the UK I was specifically referring to you saying "a lot" of people aren't aware in the US the team is called "Avengers". That's like saying people don't know the X-Men are called the 'X-Men'.
     
    #277
  3. Chewy

    Chewy REDACTED

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    13,000
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not if Iron Man goes up to space and encounters him, before returning to Earth for TA2 :)

    A dozen heroes doesn't work. Sorry. Even a half-dozen heroes led to Hawkeye not getting much characterization in the first film.

    Audiences want more interplay between the Avengers themselves, not The Avengers: The Last Stand featuring 2 minute non-roles for a bunch of characters that were in the previous movies and a few characters that weren't
     
    #278
  4. jaqua99

    jaqua99 ....I need a horse!

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2012
    Messages:
    8,301
    Likes Received:
    1

    Coulson=Mar-vell

    remember, I said it first :p

    well actually..Jordanstine did lol. but still..totally believable
     
    #279
  5. Mr. Dent

    Mr. Dent Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    8,941
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't see how this solves anything.

    Wow, you just compared a dozen relavent characters to almost over 2 dozen that were in Last Stand, many of which were not only heroes but villains and had nothing to do intimately with the plot, which itself didn't have nearly as much development as the plot coming in A2 will have had. Your argument lost all credibility right there. Don't compare something like this to Last Stand if you want to make a legitimate argument.

    What we're talking about with A2 is a movie that will have a good 12 or so heroes with one specific villain in Thanos. All of those characters will be relavent to the plot, which was built up over the course of several films, and don't all require to be the main focus of the entire film. Will some characters have to take a back seat to others? Yes, but that's not inherently a problem. Hawkeye is considered to have been shafted because he had no prior development to his involvement in Avengers whatsoever, and even he at least got his two moments in the film. Unlike Hawkeye, every single character will have had their time to shine in their own movies besides the Hulk and Hawkeye, and some characters like Groot and Rocket Racoon need no focus at all, and other like Drax and Gamora don't need any until they're actually confronting Thanos. It works, you're just not thinking very thoroughly about how it could because you're stuck on the knee-jerk reaction of "Last Stand and Spider-Man 3" when you here a movie involves more than 5 characters.

    You use "interplay" as an argument but it doesn't hold in the slightest. By interplay you probably mean the group dynamics, but you don't have to have a film focused completely around that aspect to get it across. This movie will be just as much about the conflicts outside the team that tear them apart as it will be about their "interplay". And again, you don't have to intimately focus on every single character on the team to get the group nuances across.
     
    #280
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2013
  6. Chewy

    Chewy REDACTED

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    13,000
    Likes Received:
    0
    Protip: once you start ranting about credibility and legitimacy I stop reading, lol

    Take care :)
     
    #281
  7. cherokeesam

    cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    12,044
    Likes Received:
    0
    Unless IM winds up spending the better part of the GOTG movie as a guest star (god forbid; but the current issue of GOTG #1 in comics makes one wonder), then he's not going to be armed with any useful information or weapons or tools to use against Thanos.


    No, the fact that Hawkeye was unnecessarily mind****ed by Loki for over half of his scenes (for no purpose whatsoever) led to him not getting much characterization in the first film. Had he been given the same amount of time he actually had in the movie, but doing something useful as an actual hero and Avenger instead of as a Loki Zombie, he would've had ample time for a richer characterization and interplay.

    Mr. Dent said it better than I could. It's not the amount of heroes who are in a movie; it's the quality of their dialogue and characterization that makes them memorable. The Dirty Dozen did just fine, as did the Ocean's Eleven (Plus) films, The Wild Bunch, and other ensemble casts.
     
    #282
  8. Hawkingbird

    Hawkingbird I want to be Kate Bishop

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2011
    Messages:
    5,740
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think that's changed now, certainly with the younger generation.
     
    #283
  9. Chewy

    Chewy REDACTED

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    13,000
    Likes Received:
    0
    1.Information, sure. We don't have to watch him learn stuff for him to have learned said stuff if he's in space for a while.

    I don't really want a super awesome deus ex machina weapon that can defeat Thanos at the last second, I'm sure you don't either if you really think about it. Whether it comes from Iron Man or the Guardians or Squirrel Girl. Don't want.

    2. Whedon said he gave Hawkeye the mind****ing subplot because the original, fleshed out story he gave Hawkeye left the script too long. Because there was too much to cover between 5 heroes and Nick Fury and Loki. Doubling that doesn't help.

    3. It is the amount of heroes who are in the movie, when your characters are witty superheroes that the audience likes who are played by famous actors that didn't sign on to these movies so they could each have 6 lines of dialogue.

    These characters aren't the Ocean's cast. Outside of Clooney, Pitt and Damon those characters were all caricatures who had a couple of funny scenes. And that's fine for those movies. I don't imagine Scarlett Johansson and Mark Ruffalo will be happy under those circumstances. Audiences, who liked the first movie specifically because the characters were so fully realized and characterized and explored, certainly won't be.
     
    #284
  10. Mr. Dent

    Mr. Dent Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    8,941
    Likes Received:
    0
    Protip: Don't give others protips on how to debate you. It looks silly.

    Exactly. Most people know the team is called the Avengers. If nothing else it's common sense.
     
    #285
  11. herolee10

    herolee10 No More Miracles

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2007
    Messages:
    25,169
    Likes Received:
    30
    Curious, what was Whedon's original plan with Hawkeye's character?
     
    #286
  12. Crimson King

    Crimson King Superhero Novelista

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2006
    Messages:
    5,918
    Likes Received:
    0
    I could accept that far more easily than I could Coulson-Vision. :vomit:
     
    #287
  13. cherokeesam

    cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    12,044
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah, I'd like to hear that, too. I loved the Avengers, and god bless Joss Whedon and all, but he simply dicked over Hawkeye, and it sounds like he's making excuses. "I wanted to make a cool story arc for your character, Renner, but it would take too long, so I'm just going to make you a mindless zombie slave to the villain for half the movie instead. Isn't that better?"
     
    #288
  14. Crimson King

    Crimson King Superhero Novelista

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2006
    Messages:
    5,918
    Likes Received:
    0
    IIRC, he had a lot of backstory that involved Black Widow and there was a relationship there that would've been fleshed out more.
     
    #289
  15. SuperSAINT

    SuperSAINT Where's Chewy gone?

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    966
    Likes Received:
    0
    Didn't this come from Joss' commentary?

     
    #290
  16. Whiskey Tango

    Whiskey Tango Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    25,209
    Likes Received:
    0
    protip: Don't try to turn everything into a debate. This isn't high school.
     
    #291
  17. Mr. Dent

    Mr. Dent Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    8,941
    Likes Received:
    0
    If you don't want to turn it into a debate then you should take your own advice and simply not reply. Everything solved. If you reply then I'm going to respond.

    If you're putting your opinions out there then they're free game to scrutinize. As you said, this is not high school.
     
    #292
  18. Whiskey Tango

    Whiskey Tango Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    25,209
    Likes Received:
    0
    Then I suggest you follow your own advice, while you're busy advising me to follow mine.

     
    #293
  19. Chewy

    Chewy REDACTED

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    13,000
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well if he had a 300 page script and had to cut something it's not really an excuse, more of an unfortunate reality about the constraints of film

    I thought it was a fine intro to Hawky, and as long as we get a better look at him in this movie it's a non-issue.
     
    #294
  20. cherokeesam

    cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    12,044
    Likes Received:
    0
    Constraints be damned. If Hawkeye had all of, what 15 minutes' screen time in Avengers (seriously, somebody counted), and about 10 of those were spent under Loki's spell, Joss screwed up. The only one Loki needed was Selvig; he didn't need Hawkeye. Those 10 minutes could've then been spent on Hawkeye doing Hawkeye-ish and Avenger-ish things, and Clint would've had at least *a little* more of a presence.
     
    #295
  21. Whiskey Tango

    Whiskey Tango Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    25,209
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, but then we wouldn't have been treated to COMPUTER HACKING ARROWS and the world would be a lesser place because of it.
     
    #296
  22. Chewy

    Chewy REDACTED

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    13,000
    Likes Received:
    0
    And then both Widow and Hawkeye's specific emotional motivations in regards to both Loki and the third act battle aren't as neatly and cleanly explained to the audience.

    Look, I love Hawkeye. He's my favorite Avenger from the comics. But that storyline worked for the movie and the characters. As long as we get sassy *****ebag Hawkeye this time around I don't see the issue.
     
    #297
  23. I'm Venom

    I'm Venom "Hi, honey..."

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,364
    Likes Received:
    0
    I like the idea of Thanos being introduced before The Avengers 2, but I don't want the Guardians in the film, and I think you're right.
     
    #298
  24. Son of Coul

    Son of Coul Not 100% A Dick

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,943
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think having Stark meet up with the Guardians in the end of GOTG will be a sufficient way to keep the GOTG out of sight for TA2. It actually works really nicely. For people unfamiliar with the solo films, going from the first movie to the sequel it wouldn't come as much of a surprise that Stark went space exploring between the two films and during his travels had learned of Thanos.
     
    #299
  25. Mr. Dent

    Mr. Dent Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    8,941
    Likes Received:
    0
    That makes no sense. I didn't give you a protip on how to debate me, I said if you didn't want to debate then don't reply. Very simple concept. Instead of trying to defend someone who is capable of doing so themselves you should stay on topic and reply to the issue at hand that started the debate, which Chewy was not able to adequately argue his point for.
     
    #300
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"