Sequels The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Part 1

[blalex620]

https://maskofreason.wordpress.com/2012/05/23/very-good-writing-why-loki-won-in-the-avengers/

I don't know if people have read this but the gist of it is that Loki planned to get captured by the Avengers so he could get sent back to Asgard to try to take over and rule and that he is *possibly* going to give the IG to Thanos.

I would say if this was Whedon's game plan then it's perfect because it set's everything up so nicely for Thanos. Plus from the spoilers we've been given about Thor 2 I could see a ending or post-credit scene in where during the attack on Asgard the IG was stolen and given to Thanos leading to him in GotG and A2

 

[Figs]

I would say if this was Whedon's game plan then it's perfect because it set's everything up so nicely for Thanos. Plus from the spoilers we've been given about Thor 2 I could see a ending or post-credit scene in where during the attack on Asgard the IG was stolen and given to Thanos leading to him in GotG and A2

If they were to have an after credits sequence where they find out the IG was stolen...I'll **** myself.

 

[cherokeesam]

https://maskofreason.wordpress.com/2012/05/23/very-good-writing-why-loki-won-in-the-avengers/

I don't know if people have read this but the gist of it is that Loki planned to get captured by the Avengers so he could get sent back to Asgard to try to take over and rule and that he is *possibly* going to give the IG to Thanos.

I would say if this was Whedon's game plan then it's perfect because it set's everything up so nicely for Thanos. Plus from the spoilers we've been given about Thor 2 I could see a ending or post-credit scene in where during the attack on Asgard the IG was stolen and given to Thanos leading to him in GotG and A2

That theory is close; but not quite.

If, according to that theory, all Loki wants is to get back to Asgard and rule there, then he's got plenty of opportunity and wherewithal to do so easily enough. He's a plane-jumper. He knows his way back to Asgard through back-doors that even Heimdall doesn't know about --- he admitted as much to Hemidall in Thor 1. Plus, once he got the Tesseract, he could've said "**** off" to everybody --- Thanos, the Avengers, the whole shootin' match --- and just jetted back to Asgard, used the Cube to get cosmic power beyond imagining, and wipe Odin (let alone Thor) out of existence.

I think Loki was actually being honest about wanting to rule Midgard. It would've been giving the finger to Thor in many ways to do so.

Instead, I think Thanos is the manipulator here. HE allows Loki to get defeated so that he can position his Asgardian pawn right where he wants him --- at the gates of Odin's Treasury, where his TRUE prize awaits: the Gauntlet. Thanos was using Loki; not the other way around.

 

[Hawkingbird]

Wouldn't it undermine the whole Avengers film if it turned out Loki's defeat was all just part of the plan?

 

[I'm Venom]

the point is that you derail the threads into these arguements. It's not likely. But right now, there are other things to be speculating on. Ironman is coming out soon, we are getting some casting news for gotg, avengers 2 is gunna be a thanos story most likely, and feel free to talk about that, as there IS stuff to talk about regarding stuff that IS likely to happen in avengers 2. It's hard to do that when you constantly derail this thread, creating yet again, spiderman in the avengers. i really don't know if you are a troll or a plant or whatever, I hope not, if you feel this strongly abotu spiderman, please jsut create another thread about it

lol, oh you just like to moan. Life's out there, go find it.

 

[blalex620]

I give that Thanos is pulling Loki's strings without him realizing it. I just have a feeling that Infinity Gauntlet is going to come up missing after Asgard gets attacked and Loki is going to have something to do with it. And I don't think Loki really wanted to rule Earth because I think even he realized if the Avengers couldn't stop the Chituri army then they would destroy the Earth.

And no it wouldn't undermine the whole film if Loki intentionally got caught. Loki put himself in a position where he knew no matter what the outcome was he would win regardless. If the alien army won the fight he won control of Earth and had an army at his disposal when he decided to take on Asgard. If he lost he was still taken back to Asgard (which is where I think he wanted to go all along) and fake some innocent tears feign a change of heart and he's back in Odin's good graces giving him access to the IG which it would make sense to give to Thanos if he wanted to take control of Asgard. He's smart enough to know it'd be better if someone else took out Odin and Thor so he could take reign than if he usurped the throne himself.

And as far as Asgard not being Loki's end goal if you think about it he had many chances to leave and get away but instead chose to stay in a position where he would be caught eventually. When he was first captured he could have left while Thor and IM were fighting but chose to stay and get caught. Then instead of sitting around Stark tower he could have opened the portal left waited for the end and either came out and took control if the Chituri won or stayed in hiding if they lost but he chose to wait for everyone to get there. Then while everyone was battling the army after his fight with Thor he could have left again but chose to sit around and wait. That tells me he had a bigger motive than Earth for everything he did.

 

[cherokeesam]

I give that Thanos is pulling Loki's strings without him realizing it. I just have a feeling that Infinity Gauntlet is going to come up missing after Asgard gets attacked and Loki is going to have something to do with it. And I don't think Loki really wanted to rule Earth because I think even he realized if the Avengers couldn't stop the Chituri army then they would destroy the Earth.

Not saying you're wrong, but I'm wondering why you think the Chitauri would destroy the Earth? Granted, we don't have any backstory on them at all (they're nothing like their comic-book namesake, so we can't get any info there), but it seems to me they were portrayed as just mercenaries, not pillagers. They were still ostensibly taking orders from Loki, not just randomly destroying ****.

And as far as Asgard not being Loki's end goal if you think about it he had many chances to leave and get away but instead chose to stay in a position where he would be caught eventually. When he was first captured he could have left while Thor and IM were fighting but chose to stay and get caught. Then instead of sitting around Stark tower he could have opened the portal left waited for the end and either came out and took control if the Chituri won or stayed in hiding if they lost but he chose to wait for everyone to get there. Then while everyone was battling the army after his fight with Thor he could have left again but chose to sit around and wait. That tells me he had a bigger motive than Earth for everything he did.

Well, again there, Loki is a plane-jumper, so he could technically get back to Asgard any time he wanted of his own free will and magic. Plus, once he got the Tesseract in his hands, he *could've* just taken it for himself and assumed cosmic power on Midgard, Asgard, or anywhere he liked. The fact that he *didn't* use the Tesseract for his own ends tells me that he was actually trying to honor his end of the bargain with Thanos.

 

[Rock Sexton]

See I'm confused with how Loki's been portrayed when it comes to the throne.

In Thor, he blatantly told Thor "I never wanted the throne, I only wanted to be your equal."

Then in The Avengers he made the comment, "I remember you tossing me into an abyss ..... I who was and should be king."

 

[jaqua99]

lol, oh you just like to moan. Life's out there, go find it.

?? Alright Venom

See I'm confused with how Loki's been portrayed when it comes to the throne.

In Thor, he blatantly told Thor "I never wanted the throne, I only wanted to be your equal."

Then in The Avengers he made the comment, "I remember you tossing me into an abyss ..... I who was and should be king."

I think he definitaly wanted the throne.

 

[terry78]

Wouldn't it undermine the whole Avengers film if it turned out Loki's defeat was all just part of the plan?

That's what Whedon does. Entire arcs turn out to just be ploys.

 

[cherokeesam]

I think he definitaly wanted the throne.

He wanted *a* throne, for sure.
When he told Thor he didn't want it, it's pretty clear he was lying through his teeth.

 

[Dark Raven]

But since Loki is lying all the time, maybe when he thinks deep down he really does want the throne, he's just lying to himself.

 

[jaqua99]

He wanted *a* throne, for sure.
When he told Thor he didn't want it, it's pretty clear he was lying through his teeth.

EXACTLY! lol MCU or not, Loki is still the god of mischief, and he isn't any more "good" than he is in 616, or in myth...as some people refuse to believe

 

[I'm Venom]

I could see Loki as a sort of Hannibal Lecter character in this one. That would be a way to keep the character in the movie and stay fresh, but more behind the scenes.

 

[Joss Whedon]

Expect a great film.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Expect a great film.

^^^ He must be the real Joss Whedon. LMFAO

 

[Guerrilla]

This is an interesting theory. https://maskofreason.wordpress.com/2012/05/23/very-good-writing-why-loki-won-in-the-avengers/
Does anyone agree that Loki meant to be defeated in The Avengers?

 

[blalex620]

That's exactly what we've been talking about lol

 

[Guerrilla]

That's exactly what we've been talking about lol

Crap, sorry. I just realized you posted this here and have been discussing it. lol.

 

[Hawkingbird]

EXACTLY! lol MCU or not, Loki is still the god of mischief, and he isn't any more "good" than he is in 616, or in myth...as some people refuse to believe

Tell that to the movieverse fans

 

[Dark Raven]

That theory is close; but not quite.

If, according to that theory, all Loki wants is to get back to Asgard and rule there, then he's got plenty of opportunity and wherewithal to do so easily enough. He's a plane-jumper. He knows his way back to Asgard through back-doors that even Heimdall doesn't know about --- he admitted as much to Hemidall in Thor 1. Plus, once he got the Tesseract, he could've said "**** off" to everybody --- Thanos, the Avengers, the whole shootin' match --- and just jetted back to Asgard, used the Cube to get cosmic power beyond imagining, and wipe Odin (let alone Thor) out of existence.

I think Loki was actually being honest about wanting to rule Midgard. It would've been giving the finger to Thor in many ways to do so.

Instead, I think Thanos is the manipulator here. HE allows Loki to get defeated so that he can position his Asgardian pawn right where he wants him --- at the gates of Odin's Treasury, where his TRUE prize awaits: the Gauntlet. Thanos was using Loki; not the other way around.

Why don't you just use "sky diver" or "parachutist" like everyone else?

But maybe he just wants a golden parachute after losing his position in Asgard.

 

[blalex620]

For everyone who's saying he's a plane-jumper I understand that but if you think about it if he just went to Asgard on his own and tried to ask for forgiveness Odin and especially Thor would be suspicious. Having him reach the bottom of the abyss, as Hiddelston says it, would allow his play for forgiveness to be a lot more believable allowing him to accomplish whatever his goals for Asgard are.

 

[cherokeesam]

For everyone who's saying he's a plane-jumper I understand that but if you think about it if he just went to Asgard on his own and tried to ask for forgiveness Odin and especially Thor would be suspicious. Having him reach the bottom of the abyss, as Hiddelston says it, would allow his play for forgiveness to be a lot more believable allowing him to accomplish whatever his goals for Asgard are.

Thor has already forgiven Loki. In Avengers, he's practically begging Lil' Brudder to just come home and everything will be all right. And even though Odin will likely be righteously pissed that Loki tried to murder him and all (or at least get Laufey to murder him), he might have just enough guilt within him to try and give Loki a second chance.

 

[blalex620]

Thor has already forgiven Loki. In Avengers, he's practically begging Lil' Brudder to just come home and everything will be all right. And even though Odin will likely be righteously pissed that Loki tried to murder him and all (or at least get Laufey to murder him), he might have just enough guilt within him to try and give Loki a second chance.

I agree, all I was saying was waiting til after everything happened was in his best favor for whatever ploy he has like he did and let's face it it's Loki he always has a ploy

 

[Xeno]

For everyone who's saying he's a plane-jumper I understand that but if you think about it if he just went to Asgard on his own and tried to ask for forgiveness Odin and especially Thor would be suspicious. Having him reach the bottom of the abyss, as Hiddelston says it, would allow his play for forgiveness to be a lot more believable allowing him to accomplish whatever his goals for Asgard are.

After what Loki did in The Avengers, it would take a lot more than him coming back to Asgard all bedraggled for Odin to forgive him. Loki not only invaded Earth, which Odin and Thor have protected, but he also incited the wrath of Thanos, a powerful and dangerous enemy to make. Thor and Odin are terminally stupid where Loki is concerned, but even they have to understand the kind of threat he has brought right to Asgard's doorstep. Asgard is now on Thanos' radar in a way it wasn't before, and Loki may well have revealed details that endanger the realm greatly. The Infinity Gauntlet in Odin's vault could entice Thanos to invade Asgard just as his army invaded Earth. (Personally, I'm hoping we'll see a Thanos/Odin/Asgard throwdown when the Mad Titan comes to collect Loki's debts.)