Age of Ultron The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Part 28

[hitmanyr2k]

yeah we just gotta talk over 'em

I thought every action scene in TWS was absolutely fantastic
best action movie I've seen in many years
Whedon got the fight choreographer from TWS for AoU, correct?
should be amazing

I hope the fight choreographer is coming back because he was superb but even then his work is at the mercy of the editing room. While the fight scenes were an improvement over what we usually get in these films did they really have to take this nice piece of footage

and degrade it by editing every 5-10 frames, adding shakey cam in post production and speeding it up? I wouldn't even mind the shakey cam and speeding up of the footage if they didn't feel the need to unnecessarily change angles every nanosecond. What's wrong with holding the camera still just for 2 freakin seconds and letting the fight scene breathe?

 

[SlamAdams]

Plus, you can't just make her look absolutely useless because otherwise the audience will question "why is she there?" If you underpower the non-powered characters then the people who say they have no place in the team would be right. And besides - who would rather a Black Widow that doesn't kick ass?

This was always an argument I never understood. Yes, she might be in over her head power wise, but isn't the willingness to fight against the odds just as special as having the raw power to overcome them?

 

[BatsDC]

Arguably yes, but then you get the thinking of "what makes her different from any other agent/soldier etc. who has the same goal?" These characters, to be accepted as a team of 'superheroes', have to live up to that name at least somewhat.

 

[BoredGuy]

I hope the fight choreographer is coming back because he was superb but even then his work is at the mercy of the editing room. While the fight scenes were an improvement over what we usually get in these films did they really have to take this nice piece of footage



and degrade it by editing every 5-10 frames, adding shakey cam in post production and speeding it up? I wouldn't even mind the shakey cam and speeding up of the footage if they didn't feel the need to unnecessarily change angles every nanosecond. What's wrong with holding the camera still just for 2 freakin seconds and letting the fight scene breathe?

Eh, I thought the shaky cam was much better than a lot of other recent films, could've been toned down but I didn't find it distracting at all
and while the choreogrpahy itself was great, if you cut it too straight, it can look boring
That BTS video, for instance, looks more like a dance than a fight

 

[SlamAdams]

Arguably yes, but then you get the thinking of "what makes her different from any other agent/soldier etc. who has the same goal?" These characters, to be accepted as a team of 'superheroes', have to live up to that name at least somewhat.

In the movie at the time, none of those agents or soldiers were on the ground fighting. they could have been but they were told to stay put on the helicarrier. They followed those directions and waited for the city to get nuked. Widow and Hawkeye didn't. That's why they live up to the team. Its not just the willingness to support the Avengers, but the willingness to be one. Its one thing to want justice to prevail, its another to stand shoulder and shoulder with gods and monsters. In the comics, that's also what made Mockingbird and Quake and the other regular human vigilantes Avengers, not the power of their punch.

 

[TalismanRing]

The fight choreographer for TWS, is listed as one of the the assistant fight coordinator for AoU on IMDB so that might influence Steve and BW's fights but the stunt coordinator and fight coordinator from TWS aren't on the project.

Looking at the different Marvel projects those two were on for Marvel and the variety of styles ( Iron Man, Thor, GOTG, Cap) shows that stunts and fighting style is probably more dictated by the director. This is no more evident than that the same guy who so expertly did BWs more grounded and visceral fights in TWS did her highly stylized cartoon fight scene in Iron Man 2.

 

[TeeKay]

I hope the fight choreographer is coming back because he was superb but even then his work is at the mercy of the editing room. While the fight scenes were an improvement over what we usually get in these films did they really have to take this nice piece of footage

and degrade it by editing every 5-10 frames, adding shakey cam in post production and speeding it up? I wouldn't even mind the shakey cam and speeding up of the footage if they didn't feel the need to unnecessarily change angles every nanosecond. What's wrong with holding the camera still just for 2 freakin seconds and letting the fight scene breathe?

That fight scene was intense and probably the best CBM fight since Doc Ock and Spidey. It was just ****ing insane!t: I hope we see more fights like that in AOU and Cap 3.

 

[Silvermoon]

I hope the fight choreographer is coming back because he was superb but even then his work is at the mercy of the editing room. While the fight scenes were an improvement over what we usually get in these films did they really have to take this nice piece of footage

and degrade it by editing every 5-10 frames, adding shakey cam in post production and speeding it up? I wouldn't even mind the shakey cam and speeding up of the footage if they didn't feel the need to unnecessarily change angles every nanosecond. What's wrong with holding the camera still just for 2 freakin seconds and letting the fight scene breathe?

Love that sequence, and I was pretty fine with how it turned out in the final film. Though [BLACKOUT]I just wish it was actually Sebastian doing the knife flip in the final cut in the film instead of his double James Young - but JY probably had the better take *sigh*[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Suzanne78]

I know. It's hard to come here some days.

This is why I spend most of my free time watching and rewatching the AoU storyboard trailer and dreaming about Spader's sinister voice.

Oh, and watching my Amazon Instant Video of TWS. Which is the greatest thing ever! (Though I admit to loving GOTG more… )

Everything else? TO THE LEFT!!

 

[Suzanne78]

That fight scene was intense and probably the best CBM fight since Doc Ock and Spidey. It was just ****ing insane!t: I hope we see more fights like that in AOU and Cap 3.

Yeah, agreed. That scene and the car chase scenes in TWS were total love for me.

When I watched the CATWS special features with my purchase, the stuff featuring the stunt work and doubles and the choreography of the fight scenes were mesmerizing. I do agree that the use of shaky-cam here was pretty well balanced; there has to be enough focus on the actor's faces so the audience knows Chris and ScarJo are doing quite a bit of the work, but there also needs to be some of the other "shaky cam" stuff to help hide the stunt doubles, especially when Chris has his mask off. Also, I thought it was used brilliantly here to drive up the energy of the scenes. When you look at the background footage, it looks very much like a dance number.

Those action sequences, man… epic.

 

[BoredGuy]

(Though I admit to loving GOTG more… )

I'm very disappointed in you, suzanne

didn't think anything would ever supplant your libido-filled squeee-ing for TWS t:

 

[Suzanne78]

I'm very disappointed in you, suzanne

didn't think anything would ever supplant your libido-filled squeee-ing for TWS t:

LOL!! Oh believe me, I haven't and will NEVER STOP libido-filled squee-ing for TWS! I want to marry that movie hard!

All I'm saying is that I would like to be an polyamorous relationship with both TWS and GOTG. That's all. No big.

 

[Three_Inches]

Plus, you can't just make her look absolutely useless because otherwise the audience will question "why is she there?" If you underpower the non-powered characters then the people who say they have no place in the team would be right. And besides - who would rather a Black Widow that doesn't kick ass?

I'm just being nitpicky in HOW she kicks ass. The reason BW is so cool to me is BECAUSE she has no superpowers and still kicks ass. By using the gifts the superpowered people don't have.

 

[metaphysician]

Plus, you can't just make her look absolutely useless because otherwise the audience will question "why is she there?" If you underpower the non-powered characters then the people who say they have no place in the team would be right. And besides - who would rather a Black Widow that doesn't kick ass?

I've said it before, I'll say it again:

Black Widow is Batman. She serves exactly the same role on the Avengers as Batman does on the JLA.

 

[Spiderdevil]

Eh, I thought the shaky cam was much better than a lot of other recent films, could've been toned down but I didn't find it distracting at all
and while the choreogrpahy itself was great, if you cut it too straight, it can look boring
That BTS video, for instance, looks more like a dance than a fight

What's BTS?

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I hope the fight choreographer is coming back because he was superb but even then his work is at the mercy of the editing room. While the fight scenes were an improvement over what we usually get in these films did they really have to take this nice piece of footage

and degrade it by editing every 5-10 frames, adding shakey cam in post production and speeding it up? I wouldn't even mind the shakey cam and speeding up of the footage if they didn't feel the need to unnecessarily change angles every nanosecond. What's wrong with holding the camera still just for 2 freakin seconds and letting the fight scene breathe?

I think you're overdramatizing a bit. There's only four cuts in that clip and only two in really quick succession. It's a bit more frenetic that I prefer but it's hardly unwatchable.

Specifically I'd remove that tiny third cut where he throws the punch right before the knife flip. That's the one that makes it hard to follow (especially when you're focusing on it)

 

[Webfoot Hero]

What's BTS?

Behind-the-scenes.

 

[TeeKay]

This is why I spend most of my free time watching and rewatching the AoU storyboard trailer and dreaming about Spader's sinister voice.

Oh, and watching my Amazon Instant Video of TWS. Which is the greatest thing ever! (Though I admit to loving GOTG more… )

Everything else? TO THE LEFT!!

Control yourself.

Yeah, agreed. That scene and the car chase scenes in TWS were total love for me.

When I watched the CATWS special features with my purchase, the stuff featuring the stunt work and doubles and the choreography of the fight scenes were mesmerizing. I do agree that the use of shaky-cam here was pretty well balanced; there has to be enough focus on the actor's faces so the audience knows Chris and ScarJo are doing quite a bit of the work, but there also needs to be some of the other "shaky cam" stuff to help hide the stunt doubles, especially when Chris has his mask off. Also, I thought it was used brilliantly here to drive up the energy of the scenes. When you look at the background footage, it looks very much like a dance number.

Those action sequences, man… epic.

I haven't bought my copy yet. I'm broke. I had no problem with the shaky cam at all. Fight scenes were very well choreographed imo. Must have taken a long time to come up with that kind of choreography. Props to the stunt team and fight choreographers.t:

 

[SlamAdams]

I haven't bought my copy yet. I'm broke. I had no problem with the shaky cam at all. Fight scenes were very well choreographed imo. Must have taken a long time to come up with that kind of choreography. Props to the stunt team and fight choreographers.t:

To me, it seems shaky cam actually adds something to a frantic fight like the one in Winter Soldier. It builds tension and builds the frantic tone. When I think of the Bourne movies which is where I first was like "screw this," those fight scenes tended to be slick and precise. Its too contrasting.

 

[Suzanne78]

I think you're overdramatizing a bit. There's only four cuts in that clip and only two in really quick succession. It's a bit more frenetic that I prefer but it's hardly unwatchable.

Specifically I'd remove that tiny third cut where he throws the punch right before the knife flip. That's the one that makes it hard to follow (especially when you're focusing on it)

The bottom gif looks speeded up considerably than what was in the movie, though. And I just watched that scene yesterday.

I guess that means I need to rewatch TWS again?! Well, if I have to… *sigh*…

 

[BatsDC]

Any excuse to watch Winter Soldier again is a good excuse t:

 

[Just_Human]

det Causeway music

 

[hitmanyr2k]

I think you're overdramatizing a bit. There's only four cuts in that clip and only two in really quick succession. It's a bit more frenetic that I prefer but it's hardly unwatchable.

Specifically I'd remove that tiny third cut where he throws the punch right before the knife flip. That's the one that makes it hard to follow (especially when you're focusing on it)

I don't think I'm over-dramatizing anything. I hate illogical editing of fight scenes. What's the point of having those quick cuts in the first place? It does nothing to enhance the fight except to serve as a distraction. It's not pure crap like the Bourne movies but still unnecessary.

The bottom gif looks speeded up considerably than what was in the movie, though. And I just watched that scene yesterday.

I guess that means I need to rewatch TWS again?! Well, if I have to… *sigh*…

The funny thing is the bottom gif is slowed down just so you can actually see it. That part in the actual movie is sped up, so much that it looks like the video is dropping frames lol.

 

[TalismanRing]

I've said it before, I'll say it again:

Black Widow is Batman. She serves exactly the same role on the Avengers as Batman does on the JLA.

Batman is far more ridiculously overpowered - at least in the comics. He'd have probably defeated The Hulk in hand to hand or with one of his 80 zillion gadgets instead of doing the exceedingly sensible human thing and running away like BW. He has to win all the because "I'm Batman". I'd hate for BW to become that and that's why her fighting scenes and overall character worked better in TWS than it did in Iron Man 2 and even The Avengers.

 

[TalismanRing]

Yeah, agreed. That scene and the car chase scenes in TWS were total love for me.

When I watched the CATWS special features with my purchase, the stuff featuring the stunt work and doubles and the choreography of the fight scenes were mesmerizing. I do agree that the use of shaky-cam here was pretty well balanced; there has to be enough focus on the actor's faces so the audience knows Chris and ScarJo are doing quite a bit of the work, but there also needs to be some of the other "shaky cam" stuff to help hide the stunt doubles, especially when Chris has his mask off. Also, I thought it was used brilliantly here to drive up the energy of the scenes. When you look at the background footage, it looks very much like a dance number.

Those action sequences, man… epic.

The worst instance of unsteady hand held camera work and quick cuts was in the beginning of the boat scene when Steve is clearing the deck and when Chris had his helmet on.

Other than that I had no issue with the hand held camera work or the cuts in the movie. It was more than clear enough to show all the hard work and honed skill from the actors, stunt people, stunt co-coordinators and choreographers.

"Chris [Evans] worked his butt off for four months—doing gymnastics, fight training, stunt training—so that he could stand in in a scene like this and then go toe to toe with Georges St-Pierre and then make it look really credible. And I think he did a fantastic job…


Once the helmet comes off, 95% of this is Chris."

- Captain America: The Winter Soldier audio commentary by directors Joe and Anthony Russo and writers Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely