The Clinton Thread II

[DKDetective]

Yes, northern states.... Down south it is mostly extreme right Conservatives that know him better as far as his time in Congress, they don't know much about the flip flopping of his Governorship, therefore to them he is a Conservative right down their alley....but to Conservatives up North that do know his Governor record are not happy with him at all....and of course Liberals think he is Lucifer's brother...

In Canada and other sane liberal democratic nations, even conservatives thinks he is Lucifer's brother... Like most Republicans nowadays. It's crazy how out of touch with the rest of the civilized world the US is.

 

[Marvolo]

Frankly, at this point I'll take boring as long as the person is competent, qualified, and isnt a raging *******. Someone like Warren is a spitfire and driven but those aren't necessarily the most important qualities we should be looking for in a VP.

 

[SV Fan]

...and of course Liberals think he is Lucifer's brother...

That is disgusting and judgemental and I demand an apology. As bad as he is, in no way does Lucifer deserve his name slandered to such a degree and I as a liberal wouldn't go that low

 

[Nokio]

Tim F-ing Kaine???? Are u freaking kidding me! I don't even care about voting anymore. At this point ill give Trump a chance and im a Democrat. I can not take 4 years of more BS from my party and nothing getting done. Another career politician. The democrats are just clueless. Hillary Clinton has digustingly high negatives and need a pick to get the base enthusiastic and she go and pick Kaine. Wow, i cant wait to vote for them two, not

 

[Reek]

lets at least wait until after the convention before we become a debbie downer eh?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Tim F-ing Kaine???? Are u freaking kidding me! I don't even care about voting anymore. At this point ill give Trump a chance and im a Democrat. I can not take 4 years of more BS from my party and nothing getting done. Another career politician. The democrats are just clueless. Hillary Clinton has digustingly high negatives and need a pick to get the base enthusiastic and she go and pick Kaine. Wow, i cant wait to vote for them two, not

Well you could not vote at all or vote Libertarian which is pretty much the same thing or maybe vote for the guy that has no interest in actual policy or governance and will hand over the reigns of government to his Vice Presisdent... Cuz that worked well before, right? Also... The Vice President SHOULD be a career politician. The ascendancy of a VP to the presidency would happen under trying circumstances, say an assassination, a freak accident, death by natural causes or an attack. At such a time someone with government experience, a steady hand at the rudder is exactly what is needed. As always, an emotional pose, say a fetish for "outsiders", is not the same as sane policy.

 

[Reek]

stop it Krypton... logic is not allowed

 

[Raiden]

Well you could not vote at all or vote Libertarian which is pretty much the same thing or maybe vote for the guy that has no interest in actual policy or governance and will hand over the reigns of government to his Vice Presisdent... Cuz that worked well before, right? Also... The Vice President SHOULD be a career politician. The ascendancy of a VP to the presidency would happen under trying circumstances, say an assassination, a freak accident, death by natural causes or an attack. At such a time someone with government experience, a steady hand at the rudder is exactly what is needed. As always, an emotional pose, say a fetish for "outsiders", is not the same as sane policy.

Which is why Hillary should have picked Warren, not Kaine. Kaine is such a bored an uninspired choice, and she should've gotten a running mate who can bring more charisma and passion to the Democratic ticket.

 

[hitmanyr2k]

Which is why Hillary should have picked Warren, not Kaine. Kaine is such a bored an uninspired choice, and she should've gotten a running mate who can bring more charisma and passion to the Democratic ticket.

I like what Warren stands for too and her passion but like I said the other night, I'm not sure the U.S. is ready for an all-woman ticket. There's still plenty of male chauvinists out there who even have trouble accepting Hillary and with terror attacks ramping up abroad that pick would play into Trump's hands. His campaign would jump all over the Clinton/Warren ticket as "unsafe" and weak to appeal to the scared people out there. He's already painted Hillary as untrustworthy. He would then paint Warren as inexperienced and not having the first clue about national security. Also, I'm not sure who comes out on top in a Warren vs Pence debate.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Which is why Hillary should have picked Warren, not Kaine. Kaine is such a bored an uninspired choice, and she should've gotten a running mate who can bring more charisma and passion to the Democratic ticket.

That makes no sense in light of what I posted though. Kaine's experience in government from mayor, to governor to senator dwarfs Warren's by quite a bit in my estimation. His appeal across the ideological divide is far greater than Warren's as well. Warren doesn't in any way help Hillary with undecided voters or moderates. Warren has an appeal to perhaps the most hardcore of the left wing in the Democrctic party, the Bernie voters ect. but no one else. These types are gonna vote for her anyway despite the belly aching, and they wouldn't swing her the election anyway. Kaine appeals to moderates, Blue Dog Dems, suburban, moderate Repiblicans and moderate Independents. He's experienced and as I said... Kinda boring, but that's fine for VP. It will be much harder for the opposition media to paint a Clinton/Kaine ticket as some kind of radical combo as compared to Clinton/Warren. And bluntly, given the historic nature of Hillary's run and Trump's foot in mouth disease and his history with women... Well Hillary had the female vote in the bag. Warren would have added far less taphan Kaine is, again, despite his "boring" nature.

 

[Matt]

Isn't it telling that I, who I'd like to think keeps fairly up to date on this stuff, has never seen this? I just Googled the circumstances surrounding it. I notice in the apology she felt the need to say "It was allows, but I shouldn't have done it." I remember in the build up she continuously said she would not apologize because it was allowed. It maintains that defiant tone and watching the video it is quick, rushed, and feels like "I just want to get my campaign past this" rather than "I messed up and let the American people down and for that I am truly sorry." Hell, Nixon's apology to David Frost feels more sincere than Clinton's.

Further, this was in September, before the American people truly knew the extent of this and before these FBI findings showed that it went far beyond her simply doing something she was allowed to do. I think she needs to own it more and on a bigger stage than on an interview, done quietly on a Monday night, with our nation's least watched news network.

I think she owes the American people a true and genuine apology. I don't think it will come because I don't believe that she thinks that she did anything wrong. Legally, she certainly did not. But she was in a position of responsibility and breached the public trust that underlines our social contract. And now she is asking the American people to put her in an even greater position of responsibility? THE position of responsibility? I just really feel like she owes the American people more than a quiet, rushed, "I'm sorry that I did something that was 'allowed' and it got blown out of proportion" apology.

We have yet to see a human moment from Hillary Clinton in this campaign. I'd argue we haven't seen a human Hillary Clinton since 2008 when she shed tears during the town hall in days prior to New Hampshire. Say what you will about Trump, he is connecting with people. He is connecting on the most base level, through their fear, but he is connecting by being a human being. It may all be staged, but he showing an emotion ("I'm angry about the state of our country!") and that resonates.

Like I said earlier, Clinton is running a campaign targeted at the mind. Trump is running one targeted at the heart. The heart is going to win that argument every time. Kaine doesn't help her in that regard. That is why he is a bad choice. She needs to find some way to connect to people as a human being, because Kaine won't do it for her. People won't connect to her until they trust her. They won't trust her until she gives an apology that the people consider adequate. She hasn't done that yet and I doubt that she will.

And as a result, when historians look back on the failed presidency of Donald Trump, they will look to this campaign and ask how it happened. The answer will be simple: Clinton never tried to win over the hearts of the American people, so she lost.

 

[samsnee]

Tim F-ing Kaine???? Are u freaking kidding me! I don't even care about voting anymore. At this point ill give Trump a chance and im a Democrat. I can not take 4 years of more BS from my party and nothing getting done. Another career politician. The democrats are just clueless. Hillary Clinton has digustingly high negatives and need a pick to get the base enthusiastic and she go and pick Kaine. Wow, i cant wait to vote for them two, not

Wow overreacting much? Yes he's boring but the more I read about him, the more it makes sense. Hillary is going to have to thread the needle and pick up moderates. A Warren pick never made sense. She's better as an advocate and senator. I just don't think she has the presence to be VP. Kaine may not be a young hip non-white candidate but he seems like he has a good record for finding common ground.

 

[Matt]

Wow overreacting much? Yes he's boring but the more I read about him, the more it makes sense. Hillary is going to have to thread the needle and pick up moderates. A Warren pick never made sense. She's better as an advocate and senator. I just don't think she has the presence to be VP. Kaine may not be a young hip non-white candidate but he seems like he has a good record for finding common ground.

But that is assuming that voters are rational creatures who vote with their heads and not their hearts. They aren't. 2008 taught us that. A man with no real life accomplishments in public service beat two supremely qualified individuals, one of who was a ****ing war hero, simply by saying "hope and change." Why? Because he inspired voters.

Whether you agree with it or not, Donald Trump is inspiring his voters. Hillary Clinton is not. And ask Mitt Romney how the strategy of inspiring voters by saying "at least I'm not the other guy" worked out for him.

Clinton needed a pick that spoke to the hearts of the American people. No matter how you slice it, no matter how good he would theoretically be as a vice-president, that is not Tim Kaine. And for that reason, Tim Kaine is the wrong choice as a running mate.

 

[samsnee]

I'm shocked she hasn't apologized for the emails. A simple apology on that front would've gone such a long way. Before the Congressional hearings even started, to just say:

"I did something that I thought was acceptable. My predecessors did it. Other high ranking officials have done it. I thought it was common practice and was acceptable. But I was wrong. And other people doing it does not make it okay for me to do it. Not when I am running for the top office in the country. The buck stops with me. I have no excuse. I made a mistake and I'm sorry."

Agreed so strongly to this. I know it won't happen but if she used her convention speech and look at the camera and said "I want to apologize to the American people for giving you a reason to lost your trust in me."

I know she probably can't technically say she's wrong because that could hurt her legally down the road if it went that far but some statement on how she knows she has to regain people's trust would go a long way.

 

[Kelly]

In Canada and other sane liberal democratic nations, even conservatives thinks he is Lucifer's brother... Like most Republicans nowadays. It's crazy how out of touch with the rest of the civilized world the US is.

Wow, and you even edited it to add that....

 

[DKDetective]

Wow, and you even edited it to add that....

But it's true... Generally, the political positions of Republican politicians on major issues are far to the right of most conservative Canadians. In Canada, same sex marriage, public health care, abortion, immigration, etc. (the sort of issues at the heart of the American culture wars) are generally, well-accepted social norms in the mainstream in Canada and Western Europe from my experience. Even our right wing Conservative Party enforces silent acceptance of the liberal consensus on such social issues out of fear of hurting its electability. The sort of views espoused by many Republicans on religious and social issues are only found publicly in Canada among the platforms of fringe, right wing parties who are never elected.

 

[Slushy]

Tim F-ing Kaine???? Are u freaking kidding me! I don't even care about voting anymore. At this point ill give Trump a chance and im a Democrat. I can not take 4 years of more BS from my party and nothing getting done. Another career politician. The democrats are just clueless. Hillary Clinton has digustingly high negatives and need a pick to get the base enthusiastic and she go and pick Kaine. Wow, i cant wait to vote for them two, not

I wish I could like this post.

I'm shocked she hasn't apologized for the emails. A simple apology on that front would've gone such a long way.

Hillary apologize? HA!

 

[Thundercrack85]

Did Warren even want to be vice president?

I think she has presidential aspirations, but I'm not convinced that being vice president is the best way to pursue those. You essentially hitch your star to another person's political fortune.

 

[childeroland]

Trump has high negatives too, and it's not like he's going to take the country into some ideal direction, unless that ideal is far right. Who cares is Kaine is boring -- entertaining isn't his job, and if Trump isn't enough of a reason for liberals to vote for Clinton, than maybe we deserve him as much as the right does.

 

[Kelly]

But it's true... Generally, the political positions of Republican politicians on major issues are far to the right of most conservative Canadians. In Canada, same sex marriage, public health care, abortion, immigration, etc. (the sort of issues at the heart of the American culture wars) are generally, well-accepted social norms in the mainstream in Canada and Western Europe from my experience. Even our right wing Conservative Party enforces silent acceptance of the liberal consensus on such social issues out of fear of hurting its electability. The sort of views espoused by many Republicans on religious and social issues are only found publicly in Canada among the platforms of fringe, right wing parties who are never elected.

No it is a generalization and for the most part I find generalizations to be ignorant. No actually I find them to be stupid, because usually the person giving them has just enough knowledge to make them loud and obnoxious. AND, I find that I have patience with ignorance, I don't have a lot of it when generalizations are being thrown around. .

 

[Thundercrack85]

The American Republican Party is pretty out of step with politics in the rest of the Western world. I mean, look at their platform. Gay conversion, clean coal, no gun control of any kind, etc. They'd be laughed out of the room in most countries.

 

[Kelly]

The American Republican Party is pretty out of step with politics in the rest of the Western world. I mean, look at their platform. Gay conversion, clean coal, no gun control of any kind, etc. They'd be laughed out of the room in most countries.

The Republican party....YES, you are correct, the US as a whole....no.

 

[Thundercrack85]

The Republican party....YES, you are correct, the US as a whole....no.

Really? Because I find that American politics are hard right-of-center by Western standards. The United States is the only developed country in the world with no universal health care. Same with paid maternity leave. Sex ed and evolution are still contentious subjects in schools. The minimum wage and taxes are unusually low. And then there is the fact that it is basically impossible to be elected to high office if you don't claim to be religious

Both parties have views regarding guns that would be considered insane in Europe, and Australia.

 

[samsnee]

But that is assuming that voters are rational creatures who vote with their heads and not their hearts. They aren't. 2008 taught us that. A man with no real life accomplishments in public service beat two supremely qualified individuals, one of who was a ****ing war hero, simply by saying "hope and change." Why? Because he inspired voters.

Whether you agree with it or not, Donald Trump is inspiring his voters. Hillary Clinton is not. And ask Mitt Romney how the strategy of inspiring voters by saying "at least I'm not the other guy" worked out for him.

Clinton needed a pick that spoke to the hearts of the American people. No matter how you slice it, no matter how good he would theoretically be as a vice-president, that is not Tim Kaine. And for that reason, Tim Kaine is the wrong choice as a running mate.

I disagree. McCain wasn't qualified too me. His pick for VP showed that. And Donald Trump isn't inspiring anything except fear.

 

[souvlaki]

Okay, I had serious doubts about Kaine but his speech impressed me. I think he may be a solid choice.