The Dark Knight Rises The Dark Knight Rises Info Hunters Thread - - - Part 21

[jmc]

Seriously, if Miranda does turn out to be Talia, it will officially be one of the worst kept secrets and dullest plot twists ever in film.

 

[DoctorJackstraw]

If tate IS in fact talia, i hope (and i doubt) that she would be treated as a plot twist, or even a reveal, i'd predict it's something that we find out pretty quickly (even if bruce dosent know)

 

[Yurka]

If tate IS in fact talia, i hope (and i doubt) that she would be treated as a plot twist, or even a reveal, i'd predict it's something that we find out pretty quickly (even if bruce dosent know)

Agreed, if she's Talia I really don't see the "twist" occurring near the end of the film with her in turn trying to hurt or destroy Bruce. Perhaps we find out early she was placed in Wayne Ent. but shes ashamed of her "Al Ghul" heritage and is trying to change Bruce for the better. Theres alot they can do with the character aside from using a simple plot twist.

 

[DoctorJackstraw]

5 Oscar winners in Nolans Batman franchise.

*Just thinking out loud*

and none of them are gary oldman .......yet

 

[scifiwolf]

Just noticed the casting news about Brett Cullen and Chris Ellis. Love both of those actors, especially Chris.

 

[gazzilla8000]

Seriously, if Miranda does turn out to be Talia, it will officially be one of the worst kept secrets and dullest plot twists ever in film.

Only for the hardcore fans like us, general audiences wouldn't have a clue. And Nolan makes these movies for all audiences.

Plus its hardly the "worst kept secret" if all we did was speculate and guess right - they haven't let anything slip.

 

[Nightwatcher11]

hey guys does anyone know if we'll be getting the Wayne's graveyard? Or in Begins were they buried at the Wayne Manor? Thanks for clearing this up guys! I just wanna see Bruce visiting his parents.

 

[Ekricket]

So this is pure speculation and ideas, running with what was posted above. The little girl and Marion do look strikingly similar, so here's a couple thoughts that my muddled brain thought of;

- Information we've read from the shoot, about a young Bane rising from the fire, unhurt, and taken by a younger Ra's Al Ghul makes me wonder if;

- They play on the Rachel/Bruce scene from BB, with a young Talia befriending Bane after Ra's takes him in.

- Ra's recognises Bane could be his successor, and so trains him with the League of Shadows for many years.

- Bane falls in love with Talia (Marion - yes, I'm going with that theory too!) But she spurns him. He either exiles himself, or Ra's exiles him for his 'betrayal'. Hence in BB Ra's says Bruce was meant to be by his side, since he failed with his last prodigy.

- A few years later, Talia finds out Batman 'murdered' her father and vows revenge. She knows she can't match him physically, so she preys on Bane's feelings to get him to take care of Batman, and potentially lead the League of Shadows with her (though she probably has no intention of that, it's just a lie to get him to work for her).

- She works at Wayne Enterprises, under a different name (maybe Miranda) to get closer to Bruce, knowing him to be Batman from communication with Ra's, prior to his death.

- The final outcome might be something like the opposite to what happened with Rachel dying. This time Batman makes Bane realise Talia is acting for herself and has no intention of being with Bane. Bane may potentially be so confused and enraged (potential prolonged use of the 'venom' inhalant might lead to long term brain damage or something?) that he lashes out and tries to finish Batman anyway.

- Not too sure where Catwoman, and all the different Police units might fit in, unless they're after Batman while he trying to deal with his own personal fight. In the first two films, he's had to save Gotham itself (BB), the people of Gotham (from themselves..) (TDK), and now he has to fight to save himself - it's a good little trinity.

These are all just ideas, and if someone shouts at me for spoileryness, I swear.... just don't. t:

What do people think? I know it's loose, so don't think I've just written an entire synopsis/plot. It's jus ideas taken from what little we've seen/heard already!

Not too good to plan the future of your "world saving holier than thou" organization on a drug addicted psychopath.

I think Catwoman and the Gotham Police come in and do musical numbers during set changes in your scenario. Chriss Angel and Cirque du Soleil choreograph them in the same style as the "Believe" Las Vegas show.

 

[scifiwolf]

hey guys does anyone know if we'll be getting the Wayne's graveyard? Or in Begins were they buried at the Wayne Manor? Thanks for clearing this up guys! I just wanna see Bruce visiting his parents.

Nobody knows. Their gravesite was never specified.

 

[Maze]

Agreed, if she's Talia I really don't see the "twist" occurring near the end of the film with her in turn trying to hurt or destroy Bruce. Perhaps we find out early she was placed in Wayne Ent. but shes ashamed of her "Al Ghul" heritage and is trying to change Bruce for the better. Theres alot they can do with the character aside from using a simple plot twist.

IF she is in it, that's what i imagined too and what i would like to see

 

[jmc]

Only for the hardcore fans like us, general audiences wouldn't have a clue. And Nolan makes these movies for all audiences.

Plus its hardly the ''worst kept secret'' if all we did was speculate and guess right - they haven't let anything slip.

Yes for all the audience, including us, if Nolan is going to do some character twist it's going to be one all of us, fan and non-fan alike, don't see coming. Talia is bunk for that reason IMO.

 

[Boom]

Assuming Talia is in this film, and assuming Nolan is going to make a twist out of her reveal, people would remember that he already pulled the same gimmick with Ra's al Ghul (her father).

Yeah, I think even the general audience would be unimpressed.

 

[kvz5]

hey guys does anyone know if we'll be getting the Wayne's graveyard? Or in Begins were they buried at the Wayne Manor? Thanks for clearing this up guys! I just wanna see Bruce visiting his parents.

We don't know yet. There are no signs to indicate the graves appearing although that is one of my dream scenes.

At this rate, we probably have a bigger chance of seeing a Ra's or LoS grave than a Wayne grave scene.

 

[kvz5]

Assuming Talia is in this film, and assuming Nolan is going to make a twist out of her reveal, people would remember that he already pulled the same gimmick with Ra's al Ghul (her father).

Yeah, I think even the general audience would be unimpressed.

I agree.

Plus for me it seems that being fooled twice with the same antics dumbs down the hero who is supposed to be smart.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that they're buried at Wayne manor, the funeral was there and even tho it's a stretch Bruce mentions to Alfred about burying his past "out there with my parants?"

 

[Solidus]

Assuming Talia is in this film, and assuming Nolan is going to make a twist out of her reveal, people would remember that he already pulled the same gimmick with Ra's al Ghul (her father).

Yeah, I think even the general audience would be unimpressed.

I doubt that. This is the same GA that watches Bay films, and goes back for more laughing at "steel balls". I doubt they would call foul, that and more of them had seen TDK not BB.

I think it would be more of the fanboys that would cry about it.

However I doubt this is the case, and even if so, I still trust that in context it will work. But again I think there will be more to it then that. But all of this is based on the assumption that these beliefs are true which they most likely are not.

 

[MaceB]

Assuming Talia is in this film, and assuming Nolan is going to make a twist out of her reveal, people would remember that he already pulled the same gimmick with Ra's al Ghul (her father).

Yeah, I think even the general audience would be unimpressed.

sigh.... this happens all the time in movies and in literature. Where you see a gimmick (oh this has been done before ) I see it as a great mirror repitition of BB, which adds depth to the whole saga. The fact that it's happened before doesn't make it a weaker plot device, but a stronger one. I personally like the idea of TDKR harking back to BB, because then the story has much more weight.

Anyway... I'm unsure if Talia will be in it, but it seems like most people have made up their minds without giving it due consideration and due credit. It could happen, and it could work... whether it suits your taste or not.

 

[Solidus]

sigh.... this happens all the time in movies and in literature. Where you see a gimmick (oh this has been done before ) I see it as a great mirror repitition of BB, which adds depth to the whole saga. The fact that it's happened before doesn't make it a weaker plot device, but a stronger one. I personally like the idea of TDKR harking back to BB, because then the story has much more weight.

Anyway... I'm unsure if Talia will be in it, but it seems like most people have made up their minds without giving it due consideration and due credit. It could happen, and it could work... whether it suits your taste or not.

Very well put. It very well could strengthen the entire arch of Batman, and add more layers to the previous films as well. I think I will wait to see what he has in store with what ever he does, (if Talia is even it it or not).

 

[Boom]

Agree to disagree then, my friends. I, for one, would hate to see Nolan pulling the same stunt with another al Ghul. You call it "great mirror repetition," I call it "boring and uninspired."

And Solidus, I can only speak for myself, but nobody in the theater laughed at the "robot scrotum" joke in RoTF. In fact, I distinctly remember hearing a "WOW."

 

[Solidus]

But I doubt no matter what (even if this is true) that it would be to the level it was with Ra's or the importance. Regardless it is pretty clear that Marion's role is pretty small. So I doubt it would be a "big twist" or even the focus of the main plot, but something else that adds to it. But again I respect your opinion and am not trying to take anything away from it. So yes we will have to agree to disagree but again all of this is based on rumor that she is in it. So I think we should worry about this argument if it is actually announced lol.

 

[Wolverine1988]

I am a bit confused as to why everyone is assuming Talia is Miranda???What cuse the little girl looks like her? Your right Jospeh Gordon Levitt looks like Ledger, hes gotta be in disguise Jokers long lost brother plotting revenge.....

You guys notice one thing than assume that off something that no other media outlets are saying and turn them into truths for your selves lol, i don't get it.

If theres one thing we have learned from Nolan is he is far from a one trick pony, he always likes do new things and be creative and not use the same elements from a previous movies, especialy a movie in the same trilogy.

 

[MaceB]

Haha, now here's the real Bain.

http://i.imgur.com/f3kpG.jpg

 

[MaceB]

If theres one thing we have learned from Nolan is he is far from a one trick pony, he always likes do new things and be creative and not use the same elements from a previous movies, especialy a movie in the same trilogy.

Dude, this will be the first time he's done a movie trilogy. Let's not box Nolan in okay. He referenced BB in TDK. There's no evidence that says he would be against further referencing BB in TDKR.

When it comes with Talia, I'm just speculating. It's come up several times, and I don't want to dismiss it... because hey.. we're all here to discuss what might be possible.

 

[Boom]

But I doubt no matter what (even if this is true) that it would be to the level it was with Ra's or the importance. Regardless it is pretty clear that Marion's role is pretty small. So I doubt it would be a "big twist" or even the focus of the main plot, but something else that adds to it. But again I respect your opinion and am not trying to take anything away from it. So yes we will have to agree to disagree but again all of this is based on rumor that she is in it. So I think we should worry about this argument if it is actually announced lol.

Well, here's a dirty little secret about me.

Spoiler

I wasn't impressed with the Ra's al Ghul twist in the first place.

Now I know what people will say. "But Boom, you read the script, so you already ruined it for yourself."

No, that's not it. It just wasn't a great twist, as far as I was concerned.

Crane: "I am more than aware that you are not intimidated by me, Mr. Falcone, but you know who I'm working for. And when he gets here-"
Falcone: "Wait. He's coming to Gotham?"

The second this line exchange happens, the twist is blown. "He" - obviously referring to Ra's al Ghul. And since we know that Watanabe's Ra's al Ghul was killed by two pieces of plywood, and that Ducard was left to live, all you have to do is put two and two together.

After all, Ducard was the one who brought Bruce Wayne in. Ducard was the one who taught Bruce the ways of the League of Shadows. Ducard trained Bruce how to fight and disappear. Ducard was actively involved in every facet of the League of Shadows. All Watanabe's Ra's did was sit in a chair. Not exactly the awe-inspiring leader you would have expected.

I did read the script, so it's impossible to prove otherwise, but I'm pretty confident that I would've picked up on the twist pretty early on even if I hadn't read it.

 

[Citadel30]

Dude, this will be the first time he's done a movie trilogy. Let's not box Nolan in okay. He referenced BB in TDK. There's no evidence that says he would be against further referencing BB in TDKR.

When it comes with Talia, I'm just speculating. It's come up several times, and I don't want to dismiss it... because hey.. we're all here to discuss what might be possible.

Nolan already said that this movie is going to take the story full circle back to BB... and Ra's was a huge part of that movie.... oh yea- PLUS a young Ra's is confirmed for TDKR, which is why Talia is being mentioned so much.

I am open to any and all possibilities at this point... it would be naive to NOT consider Talia as a surprise for this film considering what we know so far.