The Defenders The Defenders Discussion Thread (NO SPOILER TAGS NECESSARY!)

[Set]

You know, Colleen really should be the fourth member of The Defenders. She's far more interesting and impressive than Danny has been so far.

Thanks to the white jumpsuit, she's also the only one, other than Daredevil, who seems to be wearing a 'costume,' which makes her look strangely more appropriate to be at his side than Luke, Jessica or 'oh, they conveniently ripped my shirt to show off my dragon tattoo, badly drawn on 'wounds' that are going to disappear next scene anyway, and, by superhero actor standards, scrawny underdeveloped chest' Danny.

Iron Fist is my favorite of these four comic book characters, because he's got a dynamic fighting style, supernatural elements and a cool visual in the Iron Fist. The Iron Fist itself at least looks cool.

Just about everything else about Netflix Danny Rand has disappointed. His appearance, his acting, his fighting, the writing of him as a petulant and foolish child (it's definitely not all on the actor, the writing for his character has been terrible, and the fight choreographer should have realized what he was working with from the outset and minimized the big showy motions, so that he'd seem very efficient and competent, and we wouldn't see his limitations, like they do in Bourne movies or they did in old Steven Seagal movies). Ugh.

Still, the show itself had some impressive stuff, and I really liked how they tied K'un-Lun and the five elders of the Hand and their resurrection stuff and the dragon together. Nice bit of world building.

 

[Nathan]

I need to stop re-waching the Daredevil fight scenes. Makes the finale of Defenders all the more disappointing. You have Elektra and Daredevil fighting Nobu, and he still gives the two of them a proper workout. In Defenders, Daredevil alone manages to take on Bakuto and Murakami.

Seriously, why was that new age guru Bakuto even turned into 1 of the 5 Leaders of the Hand? That couldn't possibly have been the plan from the start.

 

[kguillou]

Finn Jones on the prospect of Danny getting a costume:

"It will. And look, I’m not the writer for this show, nor am I the executive producer. So unfortunately these things don’t fall on my head. But from an actor’s distinct perspective, I certainly think that will happen within, hopefully, Season Two.

"I think the way that we’re telling our version of Danny’s story is there’s a real progression. The first season of Iron Fist, he doesn’t even really know what a superhero is, let alone identify himself as one. It’s not until Defenders and when he meets the three superheroes, that he kind of goes, “Oh, you can actually do something with these abilities. You can find a purpose.” Which is exactly what Danny had been struggling to find throughout his whole life.

So towards the end of Defenders, Danny has certainly become a lot more grounded, and driven, and more purposeful character. And I certainly think, moving forward into season two, that superhero outfit would be something that Danny Rand finds extremely alluring, and cool, and after seeing Daredevil in his getup, I definitely think he may be persuaded to find one himself. What it looks like, who knows? I’d like to see a mashup of all of the kind of outfits."

Source: http://www.cbr.com/defenders-finn-jones-iron-fist-interview/2/

While I appreciate Finn's comments, I'm not getting my hopes up anymore. Defenders would have been the perfect opportunity to bring Danny's arc full circle and have him don the suit being inspired by Matt. But they deprived the fans of this aspect once again, and they know full well the fans are dying to see it and I for one am just tired of the cock teasing. I do not know why these showrunners are so adamant against this, are they afraid he'll look silly? Would it have been so bad to at least even nod to the Iron Fist suit? Ughhh

 

[KevTravels]

Is DD more powerful than Iron Fist? Because he made him look like a whimp and DD went toe-to-toe with Elektra while IF struggled.

IT seems to be fluctuating power levels. It doesn't hurt to have the hero be beaten by a villain physically, but use their smarts or cunning to win the actual fight.

 

[DACrowe]

I get the sense Daredevil has more experience and is very hardened. I didn't watch Iron Fist, but in Defenders Danny seemed very green and new to all this.

Overall, I liked The Defenders. I think it is probably stronger as a whole than DD Season 2. I don't think it's as good as the first four or five episodes of Daredevil, back when it is about Matt vs. Frank, their ideologies, and then the beginning of what looks like a twisted courtroom drama. But DD Season 2 takes a nosedive because the Hand were kind of awful other than the hospital scene.

They are more interesting here, and I think they found a way to make the ninjas aesthetic a little less silly. Also having Jessica Jones play off Matt and Luke had great character moments all around. Jess also is able to call out the dippiness of the Hand at all times, which is helpful.

I will say though that the ninja thing is played out at this point. The Hand never were that intimidating, and the finale suffered from that too because not all of the actors are as good at the fight scenes as Charlie Cox, so their big showdown with the Hand was a bit awkward, and then you add the unfinished special effects with the elevator shaft?

As a whole Defenders is a lot of fun for the character moments. I also forgot to mention how great Scott Glenn is as Stick, and how he had a good sendoff with this.

If I had to rank the Netflix Marvel shows:

1. DD Season 1
2. JJ
3. A tossup between DD Season 2 and The Defenders
5. Luke Cage
6. Iron Fist

I am really excited to finally continue Jessica and Matt's stories though next year. This was fun, but now that it is out of the way, we can hopefully get the really good stuff.

 

[Iceman]

You know, Colleen really should be the fourth member of The Defenders. She's far more interesting and impressive than Danny has been so far.

still wasn't that impressed with Danny here. Which is a shame because I REALLY want to like him. And when he gets to play off of Luke Cage, he's actually pretty good. But when he's trying to act tough/angry, or just by himself/playing off of his own show's characters, yeah not nearly as good.

Also they still write him as an idiot, which is maddening at this point.

Right now, Colleen really should be the fourth member of The Defenders. She's far more interesting and impressive than Danny has been so far.

It's been great having Colleen on this show. I hoep she continually features in future seasons of Defenders. I don't really want her to replace Danny, just for Danny to get on everyone else's level.

 

[pixen]

They really needed to bring in an actual mystical aspect to The Hand. Making Sigourney the Beast in a human host could have been a great way to do so.

I'm not saying we needed to see the full Beast thing for an entire episode but it could have created a little more of a heightened fear towards The Hand. Heck. It could have been that The Beast was trapped in her dying body and had to get more of the blood/substance to get out and destroy the city.

Make her eyes glow, give her the power Gao had and that if you did manage to get close, she could take you down quickly. Where were all the Hand ninjas? Couldn't they have been praying to Elektra/Alexandra like they are the deities of the group?

Iron Fist ruined The Hand in his first season and making everything go together with him was a mistake. Same thing goes for Gao. She should have just been the Crane Mother and not a part of it all and was saved for S2 of Iron Fist.

 

[Iceman]

Yeah there were many ways they could have improved The Hand, Weaver's character, the fingers, the goons and Iron Fist's connection to the whole thing.

 

[Hotwire]

I'm actually kinda glad Danny didn't get a suit. Looking at loads of cosplay just proves that mask is REALLY hard to pull off in real life.

 

[kguillou]

The costume looked just fine in real life in that archival footage from his own freaking show. Smh.

 

[Loki882]

Thanks to the white jumpsuit, she's also the only one, other than Daredevil, who seems to be wearing a 'costume,' which makes her look strangely more appropriate to be at his side than Luke, Jessica or 'oh, they conveniently ripped my shirt to show off my dragon tattoo, badly drawn on 'wounds' that are going to disappear next scene anyway, and, by superhero actor standards, scrawny underdeveloped chest' Danny.

Iron Fist is my favorite of these four comic book characters, because he's got a dynamic fighting style, supernatural elements and a cool visual in the Iron Fist. The Iron Fist itself at least looks cool.

Just about everything else about Netflix Danny Rand has disappointed. His appearance, his acting, his fighting, the writing of him as a petulant and foolish child (it's definitely not all on the actor, the writing for his character has been terrible, and the fight choreographer should have realized what he was working with from the outset and minimized the big showy motions, so that he'd seem very efficient and competent, and we wouldn't see his limitations, like they do in Bourne movies or they did in old Steven Seagal movies). Ugh.

Still, the show itself had some impressive stuff, and I really liked how they tied K'un-Lun and the five elders of the Hand and their resurrection stuff and the dragon together. Nice bit of world building.

Spoiler

Colleen is also the one who defeated the hand more or less on her own. She had a plan, and she executed it, and she was killing the leaders of The Hand (which the actual Defenders didn't do).

At least make her the fifth member moving forward.

 

[David H.]

At least Foggy got a hair cut.

 

[Iceman]

At least Foggy got a hair cut.

This was huge for me too

 

[famicommander]

This was pretty mediocre.

After all the build up the hand fell pretty flat.

I don't see how Jessica and Luke kept getting worked over by random ninjas.

I don't see how Elektra was able to KO Cage with a kick and then get beat up by Daredevil.

I don't see how Jessica can hold up that lift, which presumably weighs several thousand pounds, and then not be able to one shot the majority of the Hand fighters.

Colleen, Misty, Claire, and Trish didn't really get much to do.

Elektra's motivations aren't really made clear as she turns on the Hand.

I think these shows peaked with Jessica Jones season 1. Daredevil season 1 was good but season 2 went totally off the rails. Luke Cage was inconsistent, Defenders was boring, Iron Fist was bad.

 

[gohei_]

Iron Fist ruined The Hand in his first season and making everything go together with him was a mistake. Same thing goes for Gao. She should have just been the Crane Mother and not a part of it all and was saved for S2 of Iron Fist.

I agree with this. I wonder if it was a matter of too many writers?
Either way, in DD the Hand wasn't confusing at all and a major threat.

 

[David H.]

I also like that the character transitions are straight outta GTA.

 

[TheVileOne]

Making Gao part of the Hand was weird because in the first season of Daredevil she's shown to be a separate organization from Nobu. Not to mention, it seemed something was very different about Gao from the Hand as well.

Conflating Gao with the Hand was a bad idea.

 

[Matt]

I'm about six episodes in and I must say this is terribly dull. I feel like making Iron Fist so central, when he is the dullest character on the show, was a huge mistake. Moreover, I don't like the idea of The Hand as villains. The Defenders are meant to be the street level Avengers (at least that seems to be how they fit into the MCU). A group of evil resurrected/immortal ninjas obsessed with mystical prophecies and bent on world domination feels a bit over the top for a street level group, at least for their first adventure. I feel like Hammerhead or Kingpin or someone like that would've been a better choice.

 

[Loki882]

I agree that The Hand leaders (including Alexandra) should have had some kind of mystical ability like Gao did. As it stands, they didn't come across as all that threatening.'

Then again, Gao being part of The Hand at all still feels awkward given how DD S1 portrayed things imo.

Also I was kind of disappointed that they didn't even let Trish TRY and defend herself when attacked. I'd have been fine with her losing in the end, but at least build on what they set up in JJ.

 

[KevTravels]

damn. did anyone give this a 95 or better? An A+?

I give it a B+. It should have been perfect. It definitely had potential but it fell short. The producers highlighted and sold us on it being Great.

I guess overall I am just glad we got to see them interact.

 

[Iceman]

It's a B/B+ and 7 or max 8/10 but I enjoy it more than those grades just because of what they're trying to do and the interaction between the heroes as well as their supporting characters working so well. I feel similarly about Avengers. I don't feel it's the best film ever, good sure, but I enjoy it much more just because of what they're trying to do and being successful in the parts that are most important to me. Villains will change next season but hero interactions will be built upon continuously from this base so that was far more important to me.

 

[pixen]

I'd give the series a 7.5/8 at the max. It needed a little more of a budget.

DDS2/S1/JJ Tied
The Defenders
Luke Cage (Though the first 7 episodes would have earned it to be above The Defenders but the episodes after that dragged it down)


Iron Fist

 

[Iceman]

Yeah shame Luke Cage petered out a bit.

 

[Loki882]

Killing off Cottonmouth halfway was a big mistake. It didn't have to be (if they had made Mariah and Shades the main villains going forward it might have worked). But then they brought in Diamondback and nothing about him worked imo.

 

[Iceman]

Yeah most people seem to agree on that.