The Defenders The Defenders Discussion Thread (NO SPOILER TAGS NECESSARY!)

[Matt]

Killing off Cottonmouth halfway was a big mistake. It didn't have to be (if they had made Mariah and Shades the main villains going forward it might have worked). But then they brought in Diamondback and nothing about him worked imo.

Diamondback was just so very much at odds with the show. Luke Cage was subverting blaxplotation tropes (which comic Luke Cage, at least originally, was the walking personification of). Instead it was telling a real and socially relevant story of a black man. Not a caricature, not a stereotype. And then out of no where, they bring in a villain who would be more at home in a 70s Shaft movie.

 

[Spiderine]

After all the build up and anticipation I have had for this since it was announced I must say this was a little disappointing for me. I have enjoyed all of the shows thus far except Iron Fist which I could barely tolerate. DD season 2 at least had the Punisher as its bright spot. But this whole thing with the Hand has been underwhelming. The villains were weak to me. Stick could have just chopped all their heads off and been done with it. I am starting to wonder if Marvel TV is hitting a wall. I am already worried about Inhumans.

 

[writer0327]

Diamondback was just so very much at odds with the show. Luke Cage was subverting blaxplotation tropes (which comic Luke Cage, at least originally, was the walking personification of). Instead it was telling a real and socially relevant story of a black man. Not a caricature, not a stereotype. And then out of no where, they bring in a villain who would be more at home in a 70s Shaft movie.

Honestly, I loved Diamondback, even more so than Cottonmouth, just for that reason.

 

[Iceman]

After all the build up and anticipation I have had for this since it was announced I must say this was a little disappointing for me. I have enjoyed all of the shows thus far except Iron Fist which I could barely tolerate. DD season 2 at least had the Punisher as its bright spot. But this whole thing with the Hand has been underwhelming. The villains were weak to me. Stick could have just chopped all their heads off and been done with it. I am starting to wonder if Marvel TV is hitting a wall. I am already worried about Inhumans.

Inhumans doesn't count any more like Iron Fist S1. Any Buck related project can be written off as soon as he's announced. There could be a post-Buck resurgence in Marvel TV properties though.

 

[kguillou]

The tragic irony is that Buck probably got a big fat raise once the Netflix stats started pouring in and IF became the highest watched Marvel show. And at the end of the day thats what the suits care about and not what the fans think or say on the internet. Smh.

 

[Iceman]

The tragic irony is that Buck probably got a big fat raise once the Netflix stats started pouring in and IF became the highest watched Marvel show. And at the end of the day thats what the suits care about and not what the fans think or say on the internet. Smh.

Yeah but a lot of those views are because of the groundwork done by previous series. He probably wouldn't have been replaced for season 2 if they rated him.

 

[pixen]

The tragic irony is that Buck probably got a big fat raise once the Netflix stats started pouring in and IF became the highest watched Marvel show. And at the end of the day thats what the suits care about and not what the fans think or say on the internet. Smh.

He wont get a raise. He won't be working on IF 2 and Inhumans will be done. Marvel will hopefully be done with him after that.

 

[righthooksrus86]

My heart was in my stomach for a good minute because I thought for sure they'd killed off Daredevil...the scene with him and Elektra and the building collapsing around them was incredble tho.

 

[Loki882]

I didn't buy it. I mean not only do we know that DD S3 is coming, but they wouldn't have the stones to kill off one of the original team members in the first season.

 

[gohei_]

So, judging by how they talked about the substance in this show I got the impression that everytime someone died, they had to go trhough the same process as we saw Elektra do.
But how does that explain the fact that Papa Meachum came back to life all by himself in IF

 

[ssj wolverine]

Is DD more powerful than Iron Fist? Because he made him look like a whimp and DD went toe-to-toe with Elektra while IF struggled.

IT seems to be fluctuating power levels. It doesn't hurt to have the hero be beaten by a villain physically, but use their smarts or cunning to win the actual fight.

I was always told that Ironfist was the best martial artist in Marvel but Daredevil and Electra made him look foolish

 

[Nathan]

So, judging by how they talked about the substance in this show I got the impression that everytime someone died, they had to go trhough the same process as we saw Elektra do.
But how does that explain the fact that Papa Meachum came back to life all by himself in IF

Same way Nobu came back. The first time you die, you get resurrected through that complicated process. After that, it seems you're basically immortal, until somebody cuts your head off.

 

[gohei_]

Same way Nobu came back. The first time you die, you get resurrected through that complicated process. After that, it seems you're basically immortal, until somebody cuts your head off.

There is nothing in DD season 2 that states "how" Nobu came back, wether on his own or through this process once again.
There's also the fact that Elektra points out to the reamining leaders that they don't dare challenge her with the lack of the substance.

 

[righthooksrus86]

I didn't buy it. I mean not only do we know that DD S3 is coming, but they wouldn't have the stones to kill off one of the original team members in the first season.

Funny thing is I knew about DD S3 being confirmed but after that scene I was like "there's just no way Matt survived that". And then it showed him in the bed and the voice saying "tell maggie he's awake".

 

[Nathan]

There is nothing in DD season 2 that states "how" Nobu came back, wether on his own or through this process once again.
There's also the fact that Elektra points out to the reamining leaders that they don't dare challenge her with the lack of the substance.

I mean when he gets tossed off twice from high up. And then gets up like nothing happened. So presumably Nobu went through the same process Elektra did. And after that the body repairs itself each time he dies.

 

[Iceman]

My heart was in my stomach for a good minute because I thought for sure they'd killed off Daredevil...the scene with him and Elektra and the building collapsing around them was incredble tho.

What would happen to Daredevil Season 3 then? t:

 

[gohei_]

I mean when he gets tossed off twice from high up. And then gets up like nothing happened. So presumably Nobu went through the same process Elektra did. And after that the body repairs itself each time he dies.

Oh yeah, that's right. It still doesn't explain the comment from Elektra though.
Unless there are different kinds of revivals. The ninjas in DD were pretty much empty inside right?
Perhaps the "goons" get the basic procedure, which will pretty much make them zombies. And then the more important guys need to use the substance, because it heals you in a different fashion?
It's not very clear at all, much regarding the Hand anymore.

 

[Nathan]

It's really too bad that they didn't seem to have some kind of Lore Handbook in place. Things the Hand are capable of, their goals, who's affiliated with them, etc. It's really a shame how they managed to ruin the Hand over two seasons.

 

[gohei_]

Tell me about it. Thanks to how they are portrayed in both IF and this I have no desire to see them again.

 

[Matt]

Honestly, I loved Diamondback, even more so than Cottonmouth, just for that reason.

I wouldn't have minded it if the show was sort of an homage to 60s and 70s blaxploitation. It would've been a valid way to tell Luke Cage's story since the character's roots are kinda tied to that. But the writers went a different way. And as such, Diamondback felt out of place to me.

After all the build up and anticipation I have had for this since it was announced I must say this was a little disappointing for me. I have enjoyed all of the shows thus far except Iron Fist which I could barely tolerate. DD season 2 at least had the Punisher as its bright spot. But this whole thing with the Hand has been underwhelming. The villains were weak to me. Stick could have just chopped all their heads off and been done with it. I am starting to wonder if Marvel TV is hitting a wall. I am already worried about Inhumans.

Its kind of inevitable at this point, isn't it? I mean, by the time The Defenders premiered, we have had the Hand as the main villains of two of the five seasons of MCU Netflix shows (DD S2 and Iron Fist) and the side-villains of one of them (S1 of DD). Defenders makes it four of six seasons in which The Hand are major villains in about a two year period. The Hand are oversaturated. Especially since we know little more about them than ethnically diverse mystic ninja group with ties to a bunch of NYC corporations and crime syndicates and vaguely defined world domination goals. They have become as overused and as shallow as the Foot Clan. At this point, they are the Hydra of the Netflix MCU shows. Its just like "we get it, can you do something else?"

 

[MadVillainy]

Is DD more powerful than Iron Fist? Because he made him look like a whimp and DD went toe-to-toe with Elektra while IF struggled.

IT seems to be fluctuating power levels. It doesn't hurt to have the hero be beaten by a villain physically, but use their smarts or cunning to win the actual fight.

Yeah that was the impression I got too when they were trying to capture Danny

I'm actually kinda glad Danny didn't get a suit. Looking at loads of cosplay just proves that mask is REALLY hard to pull off in real life.

True, but idk I'd rather them at least try. I think they can make it work

The costume looked just fine in real life in that archival footage from his own freaking show. Smh.

lol nah nah it didnt

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I need to stop re-waching the Daredevil fight scenes. Makes the finale of Defenders all the more disappointing. You have Elektra and Daredevil fighting Nobu, and he still gives the two of them a proper workout. In Defenders, Daredevil alone manages to take on Bakuto and Murakami.

Seriously, why was that new age guru Bakuto even turned into 1 of the 5 Leaders of the Hand? That couldn't possibly have been the plan from the start.

It's a little harder to stomach knowing that this season came after semi-retirement from Daredevil.

 

[DACrowe]

Killing off Cottonmouth halfway was a big mistake. It didn't have to be (if they had made Mariah and Shades the main villains going forward it might have worked). But then they brought in Diamondback and nothing about him worked imo.

Yep I actually liked Mariah. She could've worked as the big bad. But nope, they messed up big time there.

 

[Spiderine]

Cottonmouth was being set up as an awesome villain. Got backstory and everything. And then gets taken out by Mariah in such a humiliating way. It went down hill from there after a great start.

 

[DACrowe]

The Hand didn't ruin Daredevil Season 2. But they turned what was a great season for the first six or so episodes into ending on a rather mediocre note. Making the overall product "pretty good." As they were the only show, as opposed to the Punisher and his mythology, in The Defenders, they kept this show stuck on "pretty good" and also ended on a weak note like DD Season 2.

No more Hand or ninja stuff, please. This is enough.