The Election Night Thread - Part 2

Definitely a clever bunch, these. Protests generally tend to be futile, especially when you're protesting a president-elect just because he wasn't your candidate. A lot of democrats are now behaving the way they feared republicans would if Trump lost.

There's nothing to protest really. He won the election it's going to move forward. We're not having another presidential election for 4 years.

It's fine to express your dissatisfaction with the outcome, you have that right under the 1st amendment. However these actions only hurt a community and drive people away. Not the face you want for a movement that wants to include, and make America safe for everyone.
 
And . . . DP beat me to it. :csad:

Only a minute apart...call it a tie? ;)

There's nothing to protest really. He won the election it's going to move forward. We're not having another presidential election for 4 years.

It's fine to express your dissatisfaction with the outcome, you have that right under the 1st amendment. However these actions only hurt a community and drive people away. Not the face you want for a movement that wants to include, and make America safe for everyone.

Agreed, and mature people would recognize that. Something I've noticed happening, and I think it's global, is how people in general have regressed in terms of emotional maturity and how the process or respond to their environments. People seem to be so hyper sensitive to everything they can't regular their responses, positivity tends to be rampant sycophantic blabbering, and negativity veers towards vitriolic meltdown.

We are in desperate need of mature adults to start leading engagements instead of allowing children like these protestors to dominate the interactions.
 
Burning the US flag as an American is not that bad imo, since i think one of americas problems is the extreme patriotism.
Rioting and violence however, is bad and needs to stop...that just throws more fuel into the fire.

But let me ask...what else can they do?

Put yourself in the shoes of the "minoritys"...of woman, LGBT members, Latinos, black and tell me that their protest is immature or stupid.
They have to fight their whole life against those who will now be in charge, those who dont even hold back on using violence, vile words, racial slurs etc...just because others want to live their life.
Day in and day out, people tell them that they need to fight, that they have to continue to move forward, that they cant let it get to them, that it will get better etc.

Those people have to put up with so much, have to endure daily hatred, they need to fight for the most basic rights.
And those Election, with people voting for the republicans, for a man like Donald Trump...its like a slap in their faces.
It tells them that their fight is pointless, that they mean nothing...what have they left?

They cant shrug their shoulders and move on...because their lives, their familys are now in danger.
Its 2 days since the election and those Minoritys already feel the danger, they already get attacked, harrassed, insulted etc.

Yeah, using Violence is not helping change this...but what else can they do?
 
Idiot protestor tries to smash a transformer.

https://***********/KATUNews/status/796965995260813312/video/1

The clash starts when people try to stop him. Protestors now fighting protestors. . .

Wow...ok so yeah, maybe no the way to go.
 
Burning the US flag as an American is not that bad imo, since i think one of americas problems is the extreme patriotism.
Rioting and violence however, is bad and needs to stop...that just throws more fuel into the fire.

But let me ask...what else can they do?

Put yourself in the shoes of the "minoritys"...of woman, LGBT members, Latinos, black and tell me that their protest is immature or stupid.
They have to fight their whole life against those who will now be in charge, those who dont even hold back on using violence, vile words, racial slurs etc...just because others want to live their life.
Day in and day out, people tell them that they need to fight, that they have to continue to move forward, that they cant let it get to them, that it will get better etc.

Those people have to put up with so much, have to endure daily hatred, they need to fight for the most basic rights.
And those Election, with people voting for the republicans, for a man like Donald Trump...its like a slap in their faces.
It tells them that their fight is pointless, that they mean nothing...what have they left?

They cant shrug their shoulders and move on...because their lives, their familys are now in danger.
Its 2 days since the election and those Minoritys already feel the danger, they already get attacked, harrassed, insulted etc.

Yeah, using Violence is not helping change this...but what else can they do?

They should take it up with their token white leftist representatives who identified Trump as a dangerous man while a portion of those people went and gave *********ory votes to Stein and Johnson. Make no mistake, the democrats lost this election more than Trump won it. They lost it by picking the most divisive candidate possible, they lost it by not showing up to vote, and they lost it by spitefully antagonizing the worst elements of America's vocal minority of extreme racists.

If there was 100% turn out from democrats and Trump still managed to win I'd say they have a point, but they started jogging to the finish line after the primaries and now they're *****ing and moaning they didn't win the race, and like the insightless people they are they blame the other side. They need to take some ****ing responsibility. If avoiding a Trump presidency was so important to them they would've done it, it was comfortably within their grasp.
 
They should take it up with their token white leftist representatives who identified Trump as a dangerous man while a portion of those people went and gave *********ory votes to Stein and Johnson. Make no mistake, the democrats lost this election more than Trump won it. They lost it by picking the most divisive candidate possible, they lost it by not showing up to vote, and they lost it by spitefully antagonizing the worst elements of America's vocal minority of extreme racists.

If there was 100% turn out from democrats and Trump still managed to win I'd say they have a point, but they started jogging to the finish line after the primaries and now they're *****ing and moaning they didn't win the race, and like the insightless people they are they blame the other side. They need to take some ****ing responsibility. If avoiding a Trump presidency was so important to them they would've done it, it was comfortably within their grasp.

See I want to agree and find a common ground then you go and say something like this. . . .

There are racists on both sides of the isle-way. There is enough racism and hate for both sides. This girl was physically beaten for supporting Trump

http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/11/...acked-after-supporting-trump-on-social-media/

This man was beaten by a group of young black men because he was white and voted Trump

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/11/10/police-investigate-a-video-of-trump-voter-being-attacked/

There's graffitti in New Orleans

http://www.wwltv.com/news/local/damage-left-in-wake-of-local-anti-trump-protest/350640382

Even reports of photos of graffitti calling for Whites to Die. Calling for a white man to die because he's white is just as racist as calling for an Asian, Mexican, or Black man to die because of their race.

Not exactly the tolerance purported by the left. In fact it demonstrates just as much hate exists on both sides.

There was a lot at stake here in this race. I still believe it wasn't racism that was the swing vote. It was the economy, jobs, and nationalism vs globalism. The same as what happened in Brexit. The states that changed from blue to red want better jobs and a return of the middle class. That's the speech that sold. These aren't hateful people. They're people that want help ensuring a brighter future.
 
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Burning the US flag as an American is not that bad imo, since i think one of americas problems is the extreme patriotism.
Rioting and violence however, is bad and needs to stop...that just throws more fuel into the fire.

But let me ask...what else can they do?

Put yourself in the shoes of the "minoritys"...of woman, LGBT members, Latinos, black and tell me that their protest is immature or stupid.
They have to fight their whole life against those who will now be in charge, those who dont even hold back on using violence, vile words, racial slurs etc...just because others want to live their life.
Day in and day out, people tell them that they need to fight, that they have to continue to move forward, that they cant let it get to them, that it will get better etc.

Those people have to put up with so much, have to endure daily hatred, they need to fight for the most basic rights.
And those Election, with people voting for the republicans, for a man like Donald Trump...its like a slap in their faces.
It tells them that their fight is pointless, that they mean nothing...what have they left?

They cant shrug their shoulders and move on...because their lives, their familys are now in danger.
Its 2 days since the election and those Minoritys already feel the danger, they already get attacked, harrassed, insulted etc.

Yeah, using Violence is not helping change this...but what else can they do?

Everyone is freaking out about rights being taken away (which may or may not be justified but no way to tell yet) but I don't see anyone talking about how we probably just signed the planets death warrant. Trump is a climate change denier who's promised to get rid of the EPA/FDA and "unleash" the fossil fuel industry while doing away with restrictions. This is f***ing terrifying to me.

Your rights won't matter if the planet is an apocalyptic wasteland.
 
Everyone is freaking out about rights being taken away (which may or may not be justified but no way to tell yet) but I don't see anyone talking about how we probably just signed the planets death warrant. Trump is a climate change denier who's promised to get rid of the EPA/FDA and "unleash" the fossil fuel industry while doing away with restrictions. This is f***ing terrifying to me.

Your rights won't matter if the planet is an apocalyptic wasteland.

I don't know what tell you, but unfortunately I think the GOP would have done that, with or without Trump.

That whole party is a climate change denial party before Trump came along, I think most Republicans would do what Trump is proposing.

Some people don't notice a disaster, till it is at their door step.
 
Everyone is freaking out about rights being taken away (which may or may not be justified but no way to tell yet) but I don't see anyone talking about how we probably just signed the planets death warrant. Trump is a climate change denier who's promised to get rid of the EPA/FDA and "unleash" the fossil fuel industry while doing away with restrictions. This is f***ing terrifying to me.

Your rights won't matter if the planet is an apocalyptic wasteland.

The EPA I've ehard, but the FDA too? As in, the only people who actually monitor what stuff goes into our food? The thing that while certainly not as diligent as the UK's standards have worked to monitor contain potential threats like mad cow disease? Because without some sort of regulation, we're legit ****ed.
 
See I want to agree and find a common ground then you go and say something like this. . . .

There are racists on both sides of the isle-way. There is enough racism and hate for both sides. This girl was physically beaten for supporting Trump

http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/11/...acked-after-supporting-trump-on-social-media/

This man was beaten by a group of young black men because he was white and voted Trump

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/11/10/police-investigate-a-video-of-trump-voter-being-attacked/

There's graffitti in New Orleans

http://www.wwltv.com/news/local/damage-left-in-wake-of-local-anti-trump-protest/350640382

Even reports of photos of graffitti calling for Whites to Die. Calling for a white man to die because he's white is just as racist as calling for an Asian, Mexican, or Black man to die because of their race.

Not exactly the tolerance purported by the left. In fact it demonstrates just as much hate exists on both sides.

There was a lot at stake here in this race. I still believe it wasn't racism that was the swing vote. It was the economy, jobs, and nationalism vs globalism. The same as what happened in Brexit. The states that changed from blue to red want better jobs and a return of the middle class. That's the speech that sold. These aren't hateful people. They're people that want help ensuring a brighter future.

Oh, I'm not claiming this exists only in the Republican Party or voter base, if that's how it came across. I know there's a lot of hate and vitriol coming from the democrats too. I just meant from a chronological perspective in this election cycle it seemed to start out with this notion that white america needed to be taught a lesson or something, and that antagonistic sentiment appeared to galvanize people behind Trump and turned what should've been an elaborate practical joke into the next US president.

I'm not claiming there's a massive difference between the worst parts of either party, I think they're quite similar but their hate just comes out in response to different (arbitrary) issues. If you find some of my other posts in other topics you'll see I've been arguing the same points you have, largely to no success.
 
Remember not every protestor is violent. I doubt a lot of the original protestors even thought it would get here. Here's a history lesson though, anti nazi protests have ALWAYS been very violent. While I am not saying Trump is a nazi, I am saying that Nazis have made it no secret that they support him and are happy about it and are now running rampant. What did that obviously create? The same anti nazi protestors known for violence joined this protest. That's obvious and light as day. Any criminal sociologist could see that was going to happen from miles away.

Plus, one thing that they need to do is stress why they are there. I believe/hope it's to fight against bigotry rather than just one man. If it is theyre failing at what they want to do. The message they're sending is "not my President" and they're getting the other side to answer "yes he is" and Trump is baffled because like them he's left thinking it's only about choice rather than something much deeper. The message that should be being sent is "no bigots in the white house." Same thing basically, but one just comes off as "wahh, not my choice" to a lot rather than what is hopefully really being stressed - "we won't stand for bigotry, bigotry is not American." There is a conversation going on actually, but it's like two different languages right now and a lot getting lost in translation.
 
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I don't think this is nearly as much about anti-Nazi protest as it is about Trump winning and the millennial crowd throwing their toys out of their collective cot. I'm sure they'll go after Trump supporters and neo-Nazis all the same.

Anti nazis joined this protest. Those are the protestors who brought violence with them. It's what they are known for and all these connections between Trump and nazis drove them there. Some are.protesting choice, others bigotry, others nazism and this last group is the one that brought violence as said it's their MO and nazi connections drew them into these protests like a moth to a flame.
 
Oh, I'm not claiming this exists only in the Republican Party or voter base, if that's how it came across. I know there's a lot of hate and vitriol coming from the democrats too. I just meant from a chronological perspective in this election cycle it seemed to start out with this notion that white america needed to be taught a lesson or something, and that antagonistic sentiment appeared to galvanize people behind Trump and turned what should've been an elaborate practical joke into the next US president.

I'm not claiming there's a massive difference between the worst parts of either party, I think they're quite similar but their hate just comes out in response to different (arbitrary) issues. If you find some of my other posts in other topics you'll see I've been arguing the same points you have, largely to no success.

I'm glad for the clarification. And you're right there were a lot of statements about teaching lessons changing, Making people do something, etc. I think most people are reasonable and willing to listen, though they didn't appreciate being lumped in with and called racist, facist, etc. when they're not. I know I didn't.

I think what galvanized people behind Trump honestly was the sentiment of Nationalism vs Globalism. People felt bad about their country and job losses and factories being shipped to Mexico etc. People didn't like H1B workers replacing them in their well paying IT positions at Disney. Trump spoke to that better than Hillary. She wanted to push an Agenda and break a glass ceiling for herself rather than focus on what the people wanted, and that was better jobs, and a better economy. That's why she lost PA, OH, FL, & MI.
 
Pending 2016 Election Results (not final):
Donald Trump (R): 60,051,402 votes / 47.19% / 306 electoral votes (if wins Michigan)
Hillary Clinton (D): 60,473,711 votes / 47.52% / 232 electoral votes (if wins New Hampshire)
all others: 6,724,359 votes / 5.29% / 0 electoral votes

http://www.cnn.com/election

Looks like these projections are wrong, for whatever reason the NYT said 99% of votes were counted, but I just saw something that says only 93% of the votes are counted. It should be noted that only 70% of voted were counted in California so Hillary is really going to run this up. She might get close to 65M votes.

I should also add if the outstanding votes are in heavily Democrat districts in Wisconsin(95%) and Michigan(96%) good chance Clinton wins those states. I don't know why Wisconsin was called for Trump at this point(he is only up 27k at this point)

Beyond that Arizona has only counted 79% of the vote so there is like 500k+ outstanding votes. Very unlikely but if Clinton can win 60% of those votes she would win Arizona
 
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The EPA I've ehard, but the FDA too? As in, the only people who actually monitor what stuff goes into our food? The thing that while certainly not as diligent as the UK's standards have worked to monitor contain potential threats like mad cow disease? Because without some sort of regulation, we're legit ****ed.

He's not getting rid of the FDA, he's so no such thing. He's hinted at making it easier for newer/experimental drugs to get out to market faster. Think Dallas Buyer's Club where the FDA's overregulation prevented the treatment of people with AIDS.
 
He's not getting rid of the FDA, he's so no such thing. He's hinted at making it easier for newer/experimental drugs to get out to market faster. Think Dallas Buyer's Club where the FDA's overregulation prevented the treatment of people with AIDS.

Trump floats rolling back food safety regulations


Donald Trump floated rolling back food safety regulations if he wins the
White House in November.
In a fact sheet posted online Thursday, the campaign highlighted a number of "specific regulations to be eliminated" under the GOP nominee's economic plan, including what they called the "FDA Food Police."
“The FDA Food Police, which dictate how the federal government expects farmers to produce fruits and vegetables and even dictates the nutritional content of dog food,” it read.“The rules govern the soil farmers use, farm and food production hygiene, food packaging, food temperatures and even what animals may roam which fields and when,” the statement continued. "It also greatly increased inspections of food 'facilities,' and levies new taxes to pay for this inspection overkill."
The fact sheet was later removed from the website and a new fact sheet detailing Trump's economic agenda did not include mention of the FDA.
The FDA recently completed an overhaul of the food safety system with seven rules to better protect consumers from food-borne illnesses. Manufacturers of both animal and human food are now required to implement preventive controls to minimize the risk of contaminating food when it’s manufactured, processed, packed or held by a facility.
Trump’s economic policy plan also calls for “an immediate halt to new federal regulations and a very thorough agency-level review of previous regulations to see which need to be scrapped.”
Agencies would be required to list all regulations and rank them in terms of their contribution to growth, health and safety. The ultimate goal, Trump said, would be to strengthen the rules that are useful and reduce the rules that harm the economy.
 
He can't tweet or say those types of things anymore. Hopefully his staff can advisors can get that through to him. Hopefully he can evolve.

A science denying "businessman" who's made a living by screwing people over with his businesses now thinks we need to leave things like protecting the environment and monitoring our food and drinking water to big business.

How does that not scare the f*** out of you?
 
A rich candidate who lives in a bubble will definitely be out of touch. You have candidates who start out well meaning, and passionate about politics turn to **** after 20 years in Washington. That's why Romney and Ryan worried me. Ryan turned his back on the very social support systems that helped him, and his father. While Romney looked down on the poor. Currently the cost of living has far outpaced wages. Places like Michigan are drowning more than ever. I honestly can see Trump turning down the minimum wage talks, and targeting food stamps instead. He doesn't get the people who struggle, so he's not going to champion them. He's far more likely to go with what he knows, and push ideas that bolster the largest businesses from the top down (aka his friends and business associates).

The frustrating thing is how this could have all potentially been avoided with a better candidate. The DNC propped up the most Establishment candidate there is while sidestepping their populist candidate in the year of anti-Establishment politics. They literally gave the election to Trump. That's insane. I'm still not over that.
 
A science denying "businessman" who's made a living by screwing people over with his businesses now thinks we need to leave things like protecting the environment and monitoring our food and drinking water to big business.

How does that not scare the f*** out of you?

I'm concerned, I'm not fearful. I will wait and see what this actually looks like. I don't have a problem with rolling back some regulations. Everybody is freaking out about the Paris Accords but even if he scraps Obama's Clean Power Plant Plan market forces have already brought down carbon emissions because gas is so affordable and abundant right now.

“He might go back on the agreement in Paris but the net effect for the US is not likely to make much of a difference, if at all, in terms of our trajectory,” the official said. A massive increase in gas use, chiefly from shale sources, has brought down US emissions in the last decade as it has displaced coal use.
 
The Sokovia Accords are not far behind.
 
tumblr_ogg1ykrjdZ1rbtfplo1_1280.jpg

That actually made me feel good!!
 
I'm concerned, I'm not fearful. I will wait and see what this actually looks like. I don't have a problem with rolling back some regulations. Everybody is freaking out about the Paris Accords but even if he scraps Obama's Clean Power Plant Plan market forces have already brought down carbon emissions because gas is so affordable and abundant right now.

I wonder if Trump is going to defy market forces to try and fulfill some of his promises. Trump said he wanted to make coal a major industry again, is that even feasible?

It feels like his supporters wanted to return to a 1950s manufacturing economy, I am not sure how feasible that is.
 

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