The Flash The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

[Dark Raven]

If Barry practised polygamy, would all his wives be able to claim they were the Flash too?

 

[igoogol]

She doesn't. Most of his scenes were with Joe. Wally was moved to Legends to make way for Ralph. The writers wanted to do that. Iris being team leader has no infringement on Wally taking up a hero role. In fact, if that's what the show really wanted, they would continue to use Wally in that role to further prop up Iris while Barry's in prison, instead of a guy who has no relationship with her. The show has never pretended she was flash, a cop, or a scientist. But she is team leader. Whether that's forced is another issue, but she's the leader. No one said she gets extra credit, but she's still a hero, by the nature of helping to save people, like the rest of the group is. There's no competition in doing it.

People don't need qualifications to be heroic and to work with a non legal group in helping people.

With Barry in prison and Wally shoveled off to Legends, the way is cleared for Iris as leader, flash and hero (suiting up, remember?), ie The vIris which is the definition of forced. Otherwise, if what you say is true, Wally would be Flash now. Ralph, like Barry and Wally, is used to keep viewers watching until Stockholm syndrome sets in and they accept The vIris as natural. Her fans have been pretending Iris is on par with a cop and scientists since day one, and the show have slowly shoehorned her in as such. So why stop pretending it's otherwise.

Makes you wonder why they didn't just make The vIris from the get go...

 

[igoogol]

If Barry practised polygamy, would all his wives be able to claim they were the Flash too?

Sure, why not? Then they can hold a Flashdome with contests of who could crush team flash fastest, stand around uselessly the longest, and make the most self-aggrandizing statements in 1 season. The winner would be crowned OFFW: Official Fake Flash Wannabe.

 

[Primal Slayer]

With Barry in prison and Wally shoveled off to Legends, the way is cleared for Iris as leader, flash and hero (suiting up, remember?), ie The vIris which is the definition of forced. Otherwise, if what you say is true, Wally would be Flash now. Ralph, like Barry and Wally, is used to keep viewers watching until Stockholm syndrome sets in and they accept The vIris as natural. Her fans have been pretending Iris is on par with a cop and scientists since day one, and the show have slowly shoehorned her in as such. So why stop pretending it's otherwise.

Makes you wonder why they didn't just make The vIris from the get go...

I guess I forgot that they just had an entire episode centered around Ralph being the big hero where Vibe and Killer Frost, both who have been around since S1 got played like chumps by a wannabe clown. But no one bats an eyelash at that lol.

In other well somewhat other news

4x16 title "Run Iris, Run"

Spoiler

[/img]http://i66.tinypic.com/20r3ept.jpg[/img]

 

[fan4stic]

So if my wife managed to save her company from going bankrupt, without my assistance, I can claim credit over her achievement because we are married?

Iris saying they're the Flash isn't claiming any credit for an achievement. It's not a literal statement.

Have you ever seen the likes of Lois telling Clark that he isn't just Superman and how they are BOTH superman? And let's keep in mind that the character of Lois Lane has been known to contribute significantly towards aiding Superman's job as a hero than the likes of this show's version of Iris.

In the same context as Iris put it, it would be just as much a non-issue to me. Another character doesn't have to say it.

Iris may now share the burden that Barry carries after becoming his wife but having her express that sentiment by saying she is the Flash as well was stupid and just plain nonsense.

You seem to know the meaning of the line, so I don't understand why you're saying she's taking credit for anything. You seem to know that bearing the burdens of something doesn't mean you're that person. If you think the line is dumb, that's fine. But you seem to get it, so I don't understand why you claim otherwise.

And while one doesn't need any qualifications to be considered a hero, you sure need some if you are to become the leader of a group of people that are protecting a city.

Not if that group is a non legal vigilante team. This isn't a government group or something that takes references.

Iris has displayed zero skills that would qualify her to be Tram Flash's leader. Even if everyone wasn't available that still doesn't mean that the least qualified person should assume that role.

Everyone in the least qualified. There's no one qualified. I don't understand the issue. Iris' role is basically superflous anyway. It means nothing. It's there to give the character something to do, so they don't have spend time on her getting her own separate story most likely. It's not much different than any of the other characters. There just because. Because if Barry used his powers and brain, he mostly wouldn't need any of them.

With Barry in prison and Wally shoveled off to Legends, the way is cleared for Iris as leader, flash and hero (suiting up, remember?), ie The vIris which is the definition of forced. Otherwise, if what you say is true, Wally would be Flash now. Ralph, like Barry and Wally, is used to keep viewers watching until Stockholm syndrome sets in and they accept The vIris as natural. Her fans have been pretending Iris is on par with a cop and scientists since day one, and the show have slowly shoehorned her in as such. So why stop pretending it's otherwise.

Makes you wonder why they didn't just make The vIris from the get go...

The past 2 episodes for Iris amounted to her talking to Barry and that's pretty much it. She tried talking to Ralph and he rejected that. Barry, in prison, gave Ralph the speech that inspired him. Iris had no story really. Her fans pretending anything doesn't make it so the show is. The show has shown Iris fail in the face of odd she wouldn't necessarily realistically overcome, it's shown her be called out on being indecisive, it showed her being called out on not wanting to bring Barry back and had her thank Cisco for it. The show doesn't pretend Iris is more than she is. Her being a leader doesn't place her above anyone. Barry does what he wants still. The show giving Iris a story every couple episodes doesn't make it her show.

 

[Avenging Angel]

We got a Westallen shipper in the midst. Oh boy.

 

[igoogol]

I guess I forgot that they just had an entire episode centered around Ralph being the big hero where Vibe and Killer Frost, both who have been around since S1 got played like chumps by a wannabe clown. But no one bats an eyelash at that lol.

You mean you forgot that Ralph, Cisco and Caitlin are superheroes on a superhero show. So why would anyone have a problem with them doing their thing. Meanwhile the show continues to make Iris more than she is, viewers will continue to point out how ridiculous she is.

The past 2 episodes for Iris amounted to her talking to Barry and that's pretty much it. She tried talking to Ralph and he rejected that. Barry, in prison, gave Ralph the speech that inspired him. Iris had no story really. Her fans pretending anything doesn't make it so the show is. The show has shown Iris fail in the face of odd she wouldn't necessarily realistically overcome, it's shown her be called out on being indecisive, it showed her being called out on not wanting to bring Barry back and had her thank Cisco for it. The show doesn't pretend Iris is more than she is. Her being a leader doesn't place her above anyone. Barry does what he wants still. The show giving Iris a story every couple episodes doesn't make it her show.

The only part that's correct is Iris has no story. Why? Because she's not that relevant; take out all her scenes and nothing changes. Iris as leader, flash and suiting up IS the show pretending she's more than a love interest. And what do you think the definition of leader is? If it doesn't place her above the team, then why is she going around telling everyone what to do, putting them down when they ignore her? The show has been shoehorning her into every single ep since S2, building her up at the expense of Barry, Wally and now the team. Since it's been The vIris this whole season, expect more complains about this bait-and-switch.

 

[fan4stic]

You mean you forgot that Ralph, Cisco and Caitlin are superheroes on a superhero show. So why would anyone have a problem with them doing their thing. Meanwhile the show continues to make Iris more than she is, viewers will continue to point out how ridiculous she is.

The show hasn't done that. It places her in a function to make it easier for the show to tell a story with her in it.

The only part that's correct is Iris has no story. Why? Because she's not that relevant; take out all her scenes and nothing changes. Iris as leader, flash and suiting up IS the show pretending she's more than a love interest. And what do you think the definition of leader is? If it doesn't place her above the team, then why is she going around telling everyone what to do, putting them down when they ignore her? The show has been shoehorning her into every single ep since S2, building her up at the expense of Barry, Wally and now the team. Since it's been The vIris this whole season, expect more complains about this bait-and-switch.

Iris does have a story. She just hasn't had one in the past 2 episodes. And no character has to be relevant every episode. We don't want Arrow, where every episode is contorted to make it so Felicity has something actually relevant to do. Characters can sometimes just sit around and talk to someone else. I think Iris being the leader isn't anything but the show giving the character something to do. Her being the leader amounts to very little in the show and isn't focused on much at all. I point to this past episode. Iris trying to lead Ralph doesn't do anything. Barry gives the speech that inspires Ralph. At the top you pointed out how Iris isn't a superhero, so why is her suiting up and being a superhero a bad thing for you? Why is one more acceptable than another? That's not pretending. That's the show seemingly making her more, not pretending. Just like Cisco got powers and Caitlin did and Ralph does. It may or may not be the definition of leader, but that's not what the show has displayed. Iris hasn't been shown or described to be above anyone as a person or more important. She just serves a function. Barry operates on his own pretty solely. And no one in the team places her above them. The majority of the team have either called her out or ignored her leadership and she thanked Cisco for doing that and with Harry she accepted his advice. She's not better than them and the show doesn't treat her like she is. She's given directions and that's it. It doesn't mean much more than that. Wally got his own arc last season, while Iris barely got anything. Same with season 2. Barry got an arc in s2 and 3 too. Nothing was given to Iris at the expense of their characters, same for this season. Barry had a story for the past 2 episodes, where Iris was given almost nothing to do. Iris has had 4 episodes where she's had any real story relevance, in 1 of those the episode was about Cisco as well, in another it was about Barry too, with Cisco and Gyspy, the next was about Caitlin/Killer Frost and the 4th was with Caitlin and Barry. That's not even counting that Ralph has had more story relevance episodes than all the characters, including Iris and he only showed up in the 4th episode of the season and every episode he's been in has had some form of character development for him.

 

[fan4stic]

We got a Westallen shipper in the midst. Oh boy.

If I ship anything I ship Barry/Kara. Without previous sexual partners of course.

 

[Primal Slayer]

You mean you forgot that Ralph, Cisco and Caitlin are superheroes on a superhero show. So why would anyone have a problem with them doing their thing. Meanwhile the show continues to make Iris more than she is, viewers will continue to point out how ridiculous she is.

People are claiming to be pissed because it is "The Iris show" well...the show is called The FLASH, not Superhero show so not being pissed by Ralph taking PLENTY of focus just because he can stretch himself every which way is the most hypocritical thing ever. But hey you should be happy and have nothing to complain about considering a she will be stepping up as a superhero.

 

[Avenging Angel]

If I ship anything I ship Barry/Kara. Without previous sexual partners of course.

For someone who claims they aren't a shipper you sure do defend Iris and Westallen a lot when there is nothing to defend.

 

[marvelrobbins]

For someone who claims they aren't a shipper you sure do defend Iris and Westallen a lot when there is nothing to defend.

wel i won't get into arguements over ships because the wa fans will attack me and others who ship snowbarry. but flash has turned into utter fiasco with the iris and wa obsession fo writers. me and others are like enough of this. I am at point where i say just put killer frost/caitlin on lot so she can get stuff to do.

many people are tired of this crap.

iris is likely going to be pregnent and this is reason why she suddenly has powers and dons suit.

 

[2kt09]

People are claiming to be pissed because it is "The Iris show" well...the show is called The FLASH, not Superhero show so not being pissed by Ralph taking PLENTY of focus just because he can stretch himself every which way is the most hypocritical thing ever. But hey you should be happy and have nothing to complain about considering a she will be stepping up as a superhero.

Is she suiting up or is that the new girl who just popped up at the end of last ep?

 

[Primal Slayer]

Is she suiting up or is that the new girl who just popped up at the end of last ep?

Spoiler

 

[2kt09]

Spoiler

ahh...
going with the 'alternate vers a la Black Siren' speculation

 

[igoogol]

Iris does have a story...

If you're going to ignore Iris is only a side character and her story is completely forced, then you might as well save your fingers and just say you're loving the iris show.

People are claiming to be pissed because it is "The Iris show" well...the show is called The FLASH, not Superhero show so not being pissed by Ralph taking PLENTY of focus just because he can stretch himself every which way is the most hypocritical thing ever. But hey you should be happy and have nothing to complain about considering a she will be stepping up as a superhero.

Blaming Ralph, ignoring Wally was basically brought on to prop up Iris and that she's just a shoehorned love interest with nothing in her forced story to ever support her as leader, flash and suiting up works for you. Got it.

 

[Ninjablade]

That’s filming for episode 16 right?

Based on past seasons, episode 15 usually ends in some catalyst (Wells is Thawne reveal/Barry time traveling S1, Zoom identity and motivation reveal S2, Savitar being freed/Wally in Speedforce Prison S3) that sets up an immediate reaction in episode 16 and usually sets the stage for the rest of the season.

Based on what we know of episode 15 right now, and it being a speedster heavy episode, I wonder if [BLACKOUT]another speedforce storm happens giving people powers[/BLACKOUT]. Could explain why Iris is suited up alone. I hope it’s some alternate universe thing, because if it’s our Iris then I feel this season is going of the rails a little. I’m curious as to what the end game is here. I haven’t been keeping as much as I’d like to because this season just feels like a lot of filler, even episodes with Davoe and Barry face to face. Last season was better to binge as a whole. I’m gonna wait to skip around when it’s on Netflix in may.

 

[Avenging Angel]

wel i won't get into arguements over ships because the wa fans will attack me and others who ship snowbarry. but flash has turned into utter fiasco with the iris and wa obsession fo writers. me and others are like enough of this. I am at point where i say just put killer frost/caitlin on lot so she can get stuff to do.

many people are tired of this crap.

iris is likely going to be pregnent and this is reason why she suddenly has powers and dons suit.

Indeed. With the new spoilers released from on set it seems the show we know and loved is no longer there. I guess we have to wait until Season 5 for it to come back.

 

[fan4stic]

For someone who claims they aren't a shipper you sure do defend Iris and Westallen a lot when there is nothing to defend.

People are bashing the character, like they did with Laurel. Why wouldn't I defend her? I don't think I've defended westallen. Just Iris.

If you're going to ignore Iris is only a side character and her story is completely forced, then you might as well save your fingers and just say you're loving the iris show.

Iris has had only 4 episodes of real prominence this season as a character, so I don't think it's the Iris show. I'm liking the Elongated Man show, because that's more what the show has become and I don't have a problem with it. I said it was forced, but that doesn't erase the existence of the storyline and I don't care about forced things. That's what the show has always been to me, a series of excuses to give characters importance when Barry using his powers a little more smarter would likely mean that he mostly wouldn't need them.

Blaming Ralph, ignoring Wally was basically brought on to prop up Iris and that she's just a shoehorned love interest with nothing in her forced story to ever support her as leader, flash and suiting up works for you. Got it.

Wally was brought in and given his own character arc in both of his seasons. If anything I'd say Iris was used to prop him, not the other way around. I a show where almost everyone suits up, I don't see a problem with Iris suiting up. Particularly if it's in a temporary basis. Ralph isn't being blamed for anything. The facts are that his character has had more episodes where he's had character work than any other episode. I think Primal Slayer was saying that if you think Iris doing as little as she has been makes it the Iris show, then Ralph getting as much to do as he has should make it the Ralph show to you.

 

[Avenging Angel]

Again there is nothing to defend, you could replace her in the past scenes with an extra and no one would notice. My big hang up is when they give her more screen time doing something that doesn't make sense. Quite pathetic, if the writers have nothing realistic for her to be doing, then it's time to write her off. Iris and Westallen are linked, without Westallen Iris has nothing to attach herself to. You defend Iris you defend what she's linked to.

Laurel's backstory may be similar but her character is more in tune with where Caitlin is in terms of sidelining for useless romance and sheer existence. Iris has more in common with Felicity than Laurel. At least Laurel was an attorney, what was Iris do again?

Spoiler

Oh yeah, they are making her into a speedster based on the on set pics.

The writers are not even trying here.

 

[fan4stic]

Again there is nothing to defend, you could replace her in the past scenes with an extra and no one would notice. My big hang up is when they give her more screen time doing something that doesn't make sense. Quite pathetic, if the writers have nothing realistic for her to be doing, then it's time to write her off. Iris and Westallen are linked, without Westallen Iris has nothing to attach herself to. You defend Iris you defend what she's linked to.

Laurel's backstory may be similar but her character is more in tune with where Caitlin is in terms of sidelining for useless romance and sheer existence. Iris has more in common with Felicity than Laurel. At least Laurel was an attorney, what was Iris do again?

Spoiler

Oh yeah, they are making her into a speedster based on the on set pics.

The writers are not even trying here.

Based on comments I've seen, there's something to defend. I've resigned myself that Barry having a team makes no sense and they're only there to have a tenuous purpose. Like Iris. They have plenty for her to be doing other than that tenuous purpose, like the other characters, they just don't want to do it for whatever reason. That's been the state of the show from the beginning to me.

Caitlin hasn't been sidelined. She had a whole arc spanning almost all last season. Iris didn't. This season, Caitlin has had 3 episodes with character development for her. Iris has had the same. Caitlin has her own villain who has tied into the plot. Iris doesn't have that. In s3 Iris barely got anything to do. In s2 it wasn't much different but facilitating Wally's entrance into the show.

Spoiler

That spoiler doesn't sound much different than Laurel having a couple episodes in s3 where she became Black Canary. Assuming it lasts for more than an episode or 2.

Honestly, if anyone's getting sidelined this season, it's Cisco. It doesn't seem like he's had much going on this season. I know what Iris' and Caitlin's arcs seem to be. But I'm not sure about Cisco.

 

[igoogol]

Iris has had only 4 episodes ...Wally was brought in...

Even by your own estimate, that's 3 eps too many and 4 more than anyone else got, including Barry. And the season isn't even half over. Wally was brought in to prop up Iris, he got pushed off to Legends instead of taking his rightful place as Flash so that Iris gets to play leader and flash instead. As a former cop turned superhero, Ralph's more qualified and relevant than Iris. And unlike Iris, his story doesn't need to be forced to happen. A Ralph show would certainly be an improvement over a show about a potted plant becoming fake flash. Unfortunately, we got the latter and not the former.

 

[fan4stic]

Even by your own estimate, that's 3 eps too many and 4 more than anyone else got, including Barry. And the season isn't even half over. Wally was brought in to prop up Iris, he got pushed off to Legends instead of taking his rightful place as Flash so that Iris gets to play leader and flash instead. As a former cop turned superhero, Ralph's more qualified and relevant than Iris. And unlike Iris, his story doesn't need to be forced to happen. A Ralph show would certainly be an improvement over a show about a potted plant becoming fake flash. Unfortunately, we got the latter and not the former.

I think Barry's had 6 episodes with character work in it and almost every episode he's involved in the story, Ralph's had 5 episodes with character work in it, Caitlin and Iris' had 3 (now Iris has had 4 episodes where she's been an actual part of the story, but that was for Caitlin's episode, and I wouldn't say she had much character work there, but if you want to you could count that as 4), Harry's had 2 and Cisco and Wally's had 1. I think Wally was propped up by Iris and that Wally had a character arc in s2, where Iris barely got one. Same with s3. If you'd count this at all, I'd say this is the only time it's happened.

 

[Hotwire]

Are there any solid theories on who the young girl is who's popped up twice now? One in the crossover and again at the end of the last episode.

 

[2kt09]

Are there any solid theories on who the young girl is who's popped up twice now? One in the crossover and again at the end of the last episode.

Barry & Iris's offspring, either a daughter or granddaughter.