The Flash The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 9

[Eni]

Pity those guys never heard of therapy.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

I think I might be done with this show after this season. It's been on a decline, and I don't see it getting back up to where it was in season 1.

I'll see how I feel once this season is wrapped up, especially with the promise that the next big bad won't be a speedster. But it feels like every episode, I care less and less.

 

[DawnWarrior]

Episode 9 was when they saw Savitar kill her. Here we are at Episode 22. Thirteen episodes. Thirteen hours of TV watching these guys fail. I can't.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

Episode 9 was when they saw Savitar kill her. Here we are at Episode 22. Thirteen episodes. Thirteen hours of TV watching these guys fail. I can't.

Well, [blackout] they may not have really failed.

Several folks have suggested that it wasn't Iris that got killed, but HR. Using the disguising device they conveniently introduced earlier in the same episode. [/blackout]

But even if true, it's still 13 episode that led to that. Not the most exciting storytelling.

 

[zenith16]

Well, [blackout] they may not have really failed.

Several folks have suggested that it wasn't Iris that got killed, but HR. Using the disguising device they conveniently introduced earlier in the same episode. [/blackout]

But even if true, it's still 13 episode that led to that. Not the most exciting storytelling.

that device was introduced way before that when he told them he was writer and when the live action version of the shade showed up earlier this season. now thing is

Spoiler

if that was H.R. that got skewered who that in H.R's face play Roof top sniper on another bulding with joe? my only thought would be it's his scientist girl friend pretending to be H.R. but man she picked up his mannerism's quiek.

 

[Dr Lee]

I don't

Spoiler

remember seeing HR on the roof with Joe.... IIRC the last we saw of HR was him staring at the broken piece of Savitar's suit. I do think that HR replaced Iris while Barry was doing his Ghostbusters routine... though why she'd let him is something I can't answer.... unless she didn't have a choice in the matter.

 

[Paradox1]

I actually think she died and Barry is gonna go back in time a day or so to have one more shot at fixing things. Unless he can find a way not to let his grief crush him..

 

[zenith16]

I don't

Spoiler

remember seeing HR on the roof with Joe.... IIRC the last we saw of HR was him staring at the broken piece of Savitar's suit. I do think that HR replaced Iris while Barry was doing his Ghostbusters routine... though why she'd let him is something I can't answer.... unless she didn't have a choice in the matter.

I didn't say

Spoiler

"with" with is the operative word here . he had his own Roof top to him self on another corner of the park it was some high point. and they showed H R. or what was supposed to be him at the end turning around and sitting with a sad face putting down his own rifle after the commercial was over with barry still crying over iris with the music

if you have sharp shooter's they should all be together in the same place they be easy to find if they miss. and you also want all angles to get at that person who's the target. they weren't together on the same place.

 

[zenith16]

I actually think she died and Barry is gonna go back in time a day or so to have one more shot at fixing things. Unless he can find a way not to let his grief crush him..

I said that in the episode thread initially.

Spoiler

but vartha the mod and other's kept pushing H.R. did some thing with his transmogrifer face disguise device and I came up with a few theory's last night to back up their claim in spoiler tags that made sense to me.

and another poster came up with the same idea. we''l see what happen next week though.


oh before I for get.


I'm ok with it being arrow that's left out . but it's not likely. lol besides the only I'm interested in if id cisco got that Rifle of plunder's to diggle and he made others like hand guns smg's and a sniper Rifle as set and Trick ammo/ smart bullets to match and gave Oliver new arrow head point to complement each other. other then I don't care past that point it seems






Newsarama shared a link.

2 hrs ·










DC-CW Plans Another 4-Way TV Crossover This Fall - But One Show Is Left Out

And a line is drawn in the DC-CW.Read

Credit: The CW

Credit: Warner Bros. Television


The CW has confirmed that four of its DC-based shows will take part in a crossover event midway through the 2017-2018 season - but the cable network's newest DC-based show will not be taking part. The 2017-2018 CW Superhero crossover will include Supergirl, The Flash, Arrow, and DC's Legends of Tomorrow. According to the Hollywood trade, last year's crossover earned the network's highest weekly ratings since 2010.
Entertainment Weekly is reporting that CW President Mark Pedowitz has said that Black Lightning will not take part in the crossover, and that the upcoming show is not connected to the DC-CW Arrow-verse.
“We do not aim to do a five-way crossover,” Pedowitz said. “Black Lightning, at this time, is not part of the Arrowverse. It is a separate situation. But there will be a big fourth quarter crossover with all four of the shows that are on in the fall.”
EW attributes part of this reasoning due to the fact that the four 'core' DC-CW shows film in Vancouver, while Black Lightning films in Atlanta. Another factor is that Black Lightning isn't scheduled to debut until the CW's mid-season, while the four 'core' DC-CW shows will all debut in the fall.
When asked about a potential oversaturaton of superhero-based TV shows, Pedowitz said that the CW has the "best" and keeps the number running at any one time down to four.
“We believe we have the best superhero programming around anywhere,” said Pedowitz. “Our belief is that we will never have more than four DC shows [on] at a time, as far as that goes, so we’ll always have a rotation of some sort. This programming will last as long as people want to watch it, as long as we have quality programs, which we have thanks for Greg Berlanti, and soon Greg Berlanti, Salim and Mara Brock Akil. We’re going to have something very unique in Black Lightning. But [superhero programming will] last as long as people want to watch it. It’s lasted my whole lifetime, so it’ll keep going.”

source:NEWSARAMA.COM

 

[MarvelKnight]

Wow, i haven't posted in a long time but

Spoiler

anyone hearing or buying the whole "iris is a time remnant" theory

 

[mqg96]

Wow, i haven't posted in a long time but

Spoiler

anyone hearing or buying the whole "iris is a time remnant" theory

I don't understand why I see this theory floating around. Time remnants only apply to speedsters protected by the speed force, they come from timelines that no longer exist.

When it comes to the human rules of time travel like on Legends of Tomorrow, we call them aberrations, but if your future self makes a major a change to your past self then your future self will be erased from existence into thin air.

 

[metaphysician]

Also, even if its possible to create a time remnant for someone else, who would have done it? Barry is the only one we know can create time remnants. It'd be rather implausible that Wally, who has barely pulled off any of the more basic speedster tricks, manages to do something that advanced. Jessie, I could *maybe* buy, given she's a supergenius in her own right. . . but she's also been completely absent for half a season. It'd be a complete out of nowhere deus ex machina, on top of the "comparatively inexperienced" and "something we don't even know is possible".

 

[DawnWarrior]

Well, [blackout] they may not have really failed.

Several folks have suggested that it wasn't Iris that got killed, but HR. Using the disguising device they conveniently introduced earlier in the same episode. [/blackout]

But even if true, it's still 13 episode that led to that. Not the most exciting storytelling.

Just what I'm saying.

 

[Avenging Angel]

I love how it's easy to say Barry can just run back in time and save her but he couldn't do the same thing to Cisco's brother. Because, why exactly? What a great hero he's turned into. Apparently lives mean nothing if it's not Iris. And to be fair, this isn't Superman, Iris is no Lois Lane, she has no purpose. I'd really like to see Barry do something selfless for once this season. I'd like him to actually care about his other friends, Caitlin and Cisco for a change. Remember those guys? The people he forgot about since Season 1, if only the writers can harness that glory once more.

 

[signalman]

CW sure blew it with their SEASON 4 write up.

 

[Dark Raven]

I love how it's easy to say Barry can just run back in time and save her but he couldn't do the same thing to Cisco's brother. Because, why exactly? What a great hero he's turned into. Apparently lives mean nothing if it's not Iris. And to be fair, this isn't Superman, Iris is no Lois Lane, she has no purpose. I'd really like to see Barry do something selfless for once this season. I'd like him to actually care about his other friends, Caitlin and Cisco for a change. Remember those guys? The people he forgot about since Season 1, if only the writers can harness that glory once more.

If he ran back in time, wouldn't Savitar still know exactly what he's going to do each time and could account for any variation he makes? If anyone's going to run back in time, it ought to be another speedster. But Wally can't run because he went and got himself injured trying to take on Savitar by himself. And he may not be fast enough anyway.

If Barry doesn't create any time remnants, then shouldn't Savitar not be born? Or if he does create one and one survives, then maybe he would not shun it this time and get everyone to welcome it. Then it would send ripples through time and affect Savitar because now he wouldn't feel rejected.

Captain Cold advised Barry not to play Savitar's own game but to beat him with his goodness. I can see him defeating Savitar by showing love and acceptance to the remnant and thereby changing who he becomes.

 

[stillanerd]

If he ran back in time, wouldn't Savitar still know exactly what he's going to do each time and could account for any variation he makes? If anyone's going to run back in time, it ought to be another speedster. But Wally can't run because he went and got himself injured trying to take on Savitar by himself. And he may not be fast enough anyway.

If Barry doesn't create any time remnants, then shouldn't Savitar not be born? Or if he does create one and one survives, then maybe he would not shun it this time and get everyone to welcome it. Then it would send ripples through time and affect Savitar because now he wouldn't feel rejected.

Captain Cold advised Barry not to play Savitar's own game but to beat him with his goodness. I can see him defeating Savitar by showing love and acceptance to the remnant and thereby changing who he becomes.

Yeah, all Barry really needs to do to defeat Savitar is go, "My future self tried to defeat you my creating time remnants. And you we're his last surviving time remnant. So what if I didn't create any? What I just...let you win?"

And by doing so, Savitar ceases to exist. Which, of course, would potentially erase everything he's done over the course of this season.

And, of course, this would also complete Barry's arc for season 3. Even before Savitar, Barry has been trying to use his powers to make things happen his way, first with Flashpoint, and now with preventing Iris' death. But it's been his attempts and trying to make everything "better" than only ended up making things worse. So by deciding that he's not going to create time remnants, decides not to fight Savitar, by "surrendering himself to fate," as it were, Barry actually wins.

 

[Thome216]

Spoiler

I could see HR taking Iris' place if he had nothing to live for. But with the only reasoning being he feels he hasn't been doing enough for the team, then I don't think he would, or should. Except for that, he has a lot of great things going for him, not to mention a love interest.
I'll be surprised if it was him, but I think Savitar did skewer Iris, but what if she's not dead yet..?
I think HR is going to come to the rescue with something he hatched up having to do with the remnant piece of Savitar's suit.

 

[mqg96]

I love how it's easy to say Barry can just run back in time and save her but he couldn't do the same thing to Cisco's brother. Because, why exactly? What a great hero he's turned into. Apparently lives mean nothing if it's not Iris. And to be fair, this isn't Superman, Iris is no Lois Lane, she has no purpose. I'd really like to see Barry do something selfless for once this season. I'd like him to actually care about his other friends, Caitlin and Cisco for a change. Remember those guys? The people he forgot about since Season 1, if only the writers can harness that glory once more.

When Barry created Flashpoint and reset the timeline he didn't know Cisco's brother would be dead post-Flashpoint, since he remained alive in the original timeline.

Iris has no purpose? Go rewatch 3x02 "Paradox" or 3x07 "Killer Frost" with the advice Iris was giving to team Flash and Barry. Go rewatch 3x19 "The Once and Future Flash" and see what would happen to the team in the future without Iris being around.

With Barry being the main male lead and Iris being the main female lead, they both have something in common. Without the Flash, there's no hero to protect Central City. Without Iris, there's no lightning rod or true heart around keeping the team going strong.

I agree that the writers need to improve on Iris' character in season 4 and go back to her personal life including journalism, but she still has a purpose on the team. The writers just treated her like a plot device due to the future event with Savitar. I mean Iris was so worried about her death half of the season what could she really do? and yes, Iris West is the Lois Lane of the Flash, just like the comics. If Iris on the TV show isn't exactly how you like it, go argue with the writers about that.

Cisco/Vibe and Wally/Kid Flash are truly Barry's best supporting characters or sidekicks. Caitlin has been a Star Labs doctor for everyone (not just Barry) and her character is nothing without Killer Frost.

 

[mqg96]

Captain Cold advised Barry not to play Savitar's own game but to beat him with his goodness. I can see him defeating Savitar by showing love and acceptance to the remnant and thereby changing who he becomes.

It's amazing how on the 22nd episodes of Arrow and the Flash this season, the former villains are giving the protagonists advice that's going to be key for them defeating their demons on the season finales. Captain Cold and Malcolm Merlyn are who I'm referring to. It seems like with Savitar and Prometheus there's no way around defeating them the normal way like past villains since they're always 10+ steps ahead of the plan. They want to break the characters inside and out, tempting them to kill and become just as bad and broken as them.

 

[Avenging Angel]

If he ran back in time, wouldn't Savitar still know exactly what he's going to do each time and could account for any variation he makes? If anyone's going to run back in time, it ought to be another speedster. But Wally can't run because he went and got himself injured trying to take on Savitar by himself. And he may not be fast enough anyway.

If Barry doesn't create any time remnants, then shouldn't Savitar not be born? Or if he does create one and one survives, then maybe he would not shun it this time and get everyone to welcome it. Then it would send ripples through time and affect Savitar because now he wouldn't feel rejected.

Captain Cold advised Barry not to play Savitar's own game but to beat him with his goodness. I can see him defeating Savitar by showing love and acceptance to the remnant and thereby changing who he becomes.

Yeah that was what puzzled me. It may be Jay since it can't be Wally.

I feel like the way the writers are crafting time travel, they have their own set of rules that won't make sense. I mean, what is wrong with the rippling effect?

Sounds like Care Bears. Something happened in the finale due to the spoilers. If they do go with the cheesy ending I'll know they played it safe again. Savitar wasn't going to last beyond the season anyway, unlike Killer Frost.

 

[Dark Raven]

Jay won't run back in time because a) he's against doing that and advises Barry not to take such action and b) he's stuck in the speed force at the moment anyway.

 

[Avenging Angel]

He's in the finale though. Is it going to be Jesse then?

 

[Eni]

...

Cisco/Vibe and Wally/Kid Flash are truly Barry's best supporting characters or sidekicks. Caitlin has been a Star Labs doctor for everyone (not just Barry) and her character is nothing without Killer Frost.

I think both female characters have that problem, neither Iris nor Caitlin are used well on the show, one is pretty superfluous other than supposedly being what keeps Barry from losing himself in the speedforce, and the other one was a rather dull supporting character that conveniently turned into a schizo for the plot's sake, but still isn't really that interesting other being another obstacle for the hero to overcome.

I don't know why so many shows have problems to write interesting female characters that stand on their own. The Flash doesn't have a single one of those (imo of course), even though they use the women they have to pander home the drama like crazy. It would be such a nice change to actually see them used not only as a tool to dial up the drama and emotions.

 

[Eni]

I love how it's easy to say Barry can just run back in time and save her but he couldn't do the same thing to Cisco's brother. Because, why exactly? What a great hero he's turned into. Apparently lives mean nothing if it's not Iris. And to be fair, this isn't Superman, Iris is no Lois Lane, she has no purpose. I'd really like to see Barry do something selfless for once this season. I'd like him to actually care about his other friends, Caitlin and Cisco for a change. Remember those guys? The people he forgot about since Season 1, if only the writers can harness that glory once more.

Yes, they really turned Barry into such a massive moron when it comes to time-travelling that it's painful to watch at times.

I do understand where he comes from with his decision making in that case. If I had Barry's mindset when it comes to problem solving (being a total idiot disregarding the consequences I know will occur, that is) along with the opportunity to get someone back but knew that it could potentially fxxx up the world doing so, I'd also go for the person that mean's the most to me, which sounds horrible and cruel, but, yeah, usually you go for the one you love.

Eh, I really think the writers turned Barry in such a fxxx up by now that it will be hard for them to suddenly make him selfless and reasonable, not to mention that he should not travel through time at all, no matter whether it is for himself or his friends. The speed force is a massive power to have and TV Barry shows nicely what happens when you are too dumb to use it in a mindful way.

I think they try to make him more 'relatable' by turning him into a moron, or what the writers think is relatable, and I'm pretty sure they stick to him being a dumbass for quite a while longer if not forever, it is just the way they want the Flash to be.