The Flash The Flash Season 1, Episode 1 "Pilot" General Discussion

[BLACKVULCAN]

hmmmm.. the dude with the multiple images of himself ,i thought was "Mirror Master" who always uses duplicate images of himself and is more of a Flash villain than "Muliplex" is, but either way that ^&* was COOL!!

and man i am jonesing for some GRODD!! I FEAKIN CANT WAIT TO SEE THAT DUDE!!That premier last night was awesome!!

 

[Spider-Aziz]

^link doesn't work.

This is his review.

Spoiler

Last night saw the debut of the latest superhero television series to hit the CW, the flash. Based on the long-standing DC comics character, this marks the second live-action outing for the character in over 20 years (The first one being the the 1990 television series starring John Wesley Shipp). If the pilot is any indication, The flash could very well be on his way to claiming his spot alongside Batman and Superman pop-cultural lexicon (and wonder woman, come 2016).

Grant Gustin delivers tremendously likable and relatable performance a as Barry Alan, the awkward but affable forensic scientist who after receiving Superspeed from a freak lightning strike (incurred by a particle Excelerator explosion) begins moonlighting as the flash: The fastest man alive. Gustin’s performance here is very evocative of Andrew Garfield in the latest string of Spiderman movies (The shy, lanky but quickwitted Everyman/ nerd wish fulfillment archetype). The supporting cast does a serviceable job. Candace Patton plays obligatory love interest/childhood best friend Iris West (One episode in and there’s already a love triangle in motion, I don’t know why studios think people like this got old 10 years ago). While suitably convincing in the role of ” concerned female friend” her character has yet to make much of an impression, however it is only the pilot episode leaving room for improvement. Just see all Martin plays her father, police captain and Surrogate father to Barry Allen, Who brings both charm and wisdom to the role of mentor to Barry Allen.

Tom Cavanaugh, Danielle Pennebaker and Carlos Valdes Play the group of scientists from star labs who help The flash in his quest to better understand his abilities, fight the oncoming storm of medicaments like himself and clear his father’s name of the murder of his mother. Cavanagh brings a surprising bitterness to the role that suits the character( or just what the character presents himself as, and end of episode stinger implies a much larger secret behind him). Danielle Pennebaker comes off a little stiff but her character is very course as a result of her grieving a deceased husband,so I imagine she’ll be feeling more comfortable in the character as the series progresses. Valdes’s character could potentially prove to be quite annoying, being the nerdy goofball who makes bad jokes (he’s a nerd so he wears a Bazinga T-shirt, get it?) finally there is the antagonist of the episode, knowing the comics as weather Wizard, A bank robber who receives Weather controlling abilities during the particle Excelerator explosion, and promptly develops a God complex. He is played by Chad Rook with ample sleaze and smirk, giving sufficient personality to a one off character (Spoiler alert: He is shot dead at the end). In a fun bit of casting, previous Helmer of the Of the Flash moniker, John Wesley Shipp plays Barry Allen’s jailed father, it almost passing of the torch.

The plot runs at a brisk pace, which is supposed fits the nature of the character. It’s very simple and straightforward: we are introduced to Barry Allen, he gets powers, bad guy emerges, he stops bad guy, accepts his role as superhero. However the show has ample hard to do it with a likable lead and some impressive special effects for television budget. All in all the pilot is fun, if a little familiar (but not so devoid of personality that it appears tired or derivative). For example, there is a creative externalization of Barry Allan’s intellect during his investigations of crime scenes that are very evocative of the BBC show Sherlock and films like stranger than fiction that I hope to see more of as the series goes on. In retrospect that seems to be the defining characteristic of the pilot, some good ideas with room for improvement: let’s hope they keep the momentum going.

 

[W/ Great Power]

Quick question:

I'm not too familiar with The Flash's comics, so is the show tightly or loosely based on them Or is it a completely different iteration of it's own?

He's always been a character that's been intriguing to me, so I was wondering if I could get some feedback from some fans.

 

[Micromind]

Quick question:

I'm not too familiar with The Flash's comics, so is the show tightly or loosely based on them Or is it a completely different iteration of it's own?

He's always been a character that's been intriguing to me, so I was wondering if I could get some feedback from some fans.

Still haven't seen the pilot episode, but I will soon.

From what I hear, it's pretty faithful to comics.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Quick question:

I'm not too familiar with The Flash's comics, so is the show tightly or loosely based on them Or is it a completely different iteration of it's own?

He's always been a character that's been intriguing to me, so I was wondering if I could get some feedback from some fans.

They take certain liberties, blend some of the different flashes together (Barry, Wally, and Bart).
The mother's death plot is a replica of the comic story, it's modern, but from before the reboot.
The Mardon's story takes some elements from the New 52 version of the characters, they are different, not the same personality from before DC rebooting their titles.
The West's are different, in no version of the comics was Iris's dad a member of the force.

 

[W/ Great Power]

Still haven't seen the pilot episode, but I will soon.

From what I hear, it's pretty faithful to comics.

They take certain liberties, blend some of the different flashes together (Barry, Wally, and Bart).
The mother's death plot is a replica of the comic story, it's modern, but from before the reboot.
The Mardon's story takes some elements from the New 52 version of the characters, they are different, not the same personality from before DC rebooting their titles.
The West's are different, in no version of the comics was Iris's dad a member of the force.

Thanks for the input

The Flash is one of the few characters I have little to no knowledge about. Not only have I been wanting to watch a new TV series, but at the same time I think it's a good way to get familiar with some aspects of his world and maybe get into the comics later.

There hasn't been too much exposure for him on TV and movies, too, so I think it's a good way to put him on a higher platform. It's probably the reason why he got quite a viewing last night for his premiere, from what I've read in this thread.

 

[BobJM]

This was a pretty good pilot; the story really hit the ground running (pun intended).

This really felt like an Issue #1 in a comic book. Loved the voiceover--some can call it sloppy screenwriting or a Raimi Spider-Man rip, but I loved it. Internal dialogue is like the crux of comics, so it's nice to get a bit of that here.

Loved the twist at the end--I'll definitely be sticking with this show for a bit.

 

[The Shape]

I'm just glad the origin is out of the way and now we can move on to the good stuff.

 

[ban1o]

The ratings were amazing 1.8 rating vs 1.3 rating for Arrow's premiere. That's fantastic. Highest rated show on CW since 2009.

 

[Mr.X]

And I don't see why it's a bad thing? So it borrowed elements from a great movie? Great, because it executed it perfectly. People keep bringing that up, like it's some kind of negative, but it's amazing to be having a similar cinematic experience for a TV show like this. Please, by all means, keep borrowing elements from great superhero movies. As long as you make it good, I'm all for it.

This! People keep saying it borrows heavily or copies the Toby Maguire Spider-man film series, but I've really only seen 3 things that reminded me of it, and one I think shouldn't count since it was actually in a Flash comic anyway. The diner scene where he sees the plates fall in slow motion(which was in one of the Flash comics), the scene in the alley where he uses his speed, and the "lightning gave me abs" scene. The "lightning gave me abs" isn't really copying Spider-man either though, since Peter just looks in the mirror and flexs, Barry looks in the mirror and comments on it.

Oh, another thing I don't get is people saying Iris is a stereotypical dumb chick. Because of the "That does include twerking" thing? That obviously was a joke and meant to be funny, not her being vapid or a idiot. It was basically just poking fun at our pop culture of today, not proof of Iris being a idiot. Ugh.

 

[famicommander]

Oh, another thing I don't get is people saying Iris is a stereotypical dumb chick. Because of the "That does include twerking" thing? That obviously was a joke and meant to be funny, not her being vapid or a idiot. It was basically just poking fun at our pop culture of today, not proof of Iris being a idiot. Ugh.

Yeah, she had just mentioned before the twerking line that she was nervous about her dissertation... usually idiots don't write dissertations.

I did have a few issues with Iris's dialogue but I didn't look at her as a stupid or weak character like Laurel on Arrow.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ Laurel is neither stupid nor weak, but that's a discussion/argument for another time and place.

 

[Frodo]

The pilot was great. Much stronger than Gotham imo . I give it an A.

 

[Mr.X]

Yeah, she had just mentioned before the twerking line that she was nervous about her dissertation... usually idiots don't write dissertations.

I did have a few issues with Iris's dialogue but I didn't look at her as a stupid or weak character like Laurel on Arrow.

Exactly! It obviously was meant to be a joke and not taken seriously! And, just out of curiosity, what issues did you have with her dialogue?

 

[Herolee10]

On another note, how many here really enjoyed the whole sequence featuring Barry, now fully suited, taking on the proto-weather wizard? The music really help elevate the moment imho and the sequence was well shot (when compared to your regular sci-fi based cw show)

 

[SomeOldGuy]

It was OK. It moved along briskly, didn't bog down in origin trivia, had a good mix of exposition and action, and IMO delivered enough to be worth coming back for a look at the rest of the season.

If I had to complain, I'd say it's biggest weakness was its conventionality. Loveable loser gets super powers, acquires mentor/foe and support staff from central casting. Shift to learning-to-use powers scene, encounter and eventually defeat super powered baddie, acquire costume, ending plot twist, roll credits. Nothing really wrong with that, but they'll need to take some risks eventually.

 

[Gold Samurai]

I almost thought they did a shot by shot remake of "Batman Begins

 

[DigificWriter]

A mod needs to change the thread title, because the episode is not called City of Heroes and never was.

 

[W/ Great Power]

Just watched it.

I have to say, without giving any spoilers, I am thoroughly impressed. I'm willing to have more in-depth discussion if anyone wants via PM, but I loved it.

AoS has let me down quite a bit, so I went into this show with low expectations. But man, I came away wanting more.

Cant wait until next Tuesday.

 

[The Guard]

I'm not seeing what it borrowed from SPIDER-MAN. At all. Other than the fact that Iris has a police father who wants Barry to keep her out of things. That's a little bit reminiscent of the Staceys in TASM.

But a superhero using their powers for the first time isn't unique to Spider-Man, and the two scenes are completely different.

The falling plate thing is actually how Barry Allen first discovered his speed in the comics. And Spider-Man caught the plates...he didn't let them fall.

 

[DrCosmic]

That would be an entirely subjective matter.

And in my subjective opinion, neither of those shows are even decent (admittedly, I gave up on SHIELD long ago and haven't watched an episode in a while, but I have seen all three episodes of Gotham). In fact, I can't think of anything even remotely good about Gotham outside of the set design and Donal Logue's acting.

I think you just need to learn objective criticism, dude. People who say TDK or Avengers was the worst movie of all time with nothing redeeming about them because they as an individual didn't like them are simply unable to see the appeal of something that appeals to someone else. One of the great things about being a human being is being able to see things from someone else's point of view.

As for the ratings, Gotham's viewership has gone from 8.21 million to 7.45 million to 6.36 million in its first three episodes. It has lost quite a lot of its audience. By comparison, Arrow went from 4.14->3.55->3.05->3.75 in its first four, eventually settling at about 3.68 million per episode (inc. DVR ratings) in its first season. So it didn't do nearly the volume Gotham did, but it did manage to keep a lot more of its peak audience throughout the season.

We don't know where Gotham will start to settle, but it is declining at an alarming rate so far. As long as it stays above 4-5 million we'll probably see another season, but it's way too early to cite the ratings right now.

It looks like both shows lost about 1/8th of their audience each week for the first three weeks. Unless the fourth week continues the downward trend, we can pretty much conclude that more people will continue to enjoy Gotham than watch Arrow. This is not measure of comparative quality, but when you see that 6 million people are continuing to watch a show and your conclusion is 'there's nothing good about the show, they're all stupid' then maybe you just don't understand entertainment.

I'm not seeing what it borrowed from SPIDER-MAN. At all. Other than the fact that Iris has a police father who wants Barry to keep her out of things. That's a little bit reminiscent of the Staceys in TASM.

But a superhero using their powers for the first time isn't unique to Spider-Man, and the two scenes are completely different.

The falling plate thing is actually how Barry Allen first discovered his speed in the comics. And Spider-Man caught the plates...he didn't let them fall.

Slo mo realization of perception powers, looking back and forth in disbelief standing in front of the love interest isn't completely different. It's even the same thematically in the story, in the same place for the same reason. I somehow doubt that was true in the original comics before bullet time or 'aug cog' was even a thing. This is on top of the alley realization of his transportation powers, also at the same place thematically and narratively in the story. This is on top of the grossly illogical "keep my daughter out of this," also at the same place in the story from the new films. This is on top of Gustin being a dead ringer for a Peter Parker, which is not how anyone would have described Barry Allen before this point. This is more parallels than Arrow had to Batman Begins in its pilot, and Arrow was originally a ripoff homage of Batman. It's not a coincidence, it's purposeful, and smart and part of the charm of the show.

 

[Mysteryman]

I enjoyed the pilot very much.
I am glad it did well in the ratings .
I hope that continues .

 

[haephestus]

I loved it. It was entertaining. It was fun. It had superheroics.

The sets, costumes, cast, storyline, acting and special effects were all decent.

I really only had minor quibbles. Barry and Iris' relationship and Barry's romantic interest in Iris seemed a little forced. I didn't really get the impression that they'd grown up together. Similarly, Barry and Detective Joe West didn't really seem to have a father/son relationship, especially the way that Joe talked to Barry after the latter first encountered the Weather Wizard.

I also thought that the effects of Barry being in a coma for 9 months were ignored. Not just the physical effects, which could be explained due to his metahuman powers, but what happened to his job (surely he was replaced), his apartment (surely someone terminated his lease), his personal possessions, etc. Barry left Star Labs with nothing but the clothes they gave him, but he somehow appeared at Iris' coffee shop in different clothes. Still, that's a pretty minor quibble since it just opens up a can of worms about who had been cutting his hair while comatose, paying his medical bills, etc.

I'm really looking forward to seeing how this season develops. I hope they don't fall into a "metahuman of the week" format in their story-telling.

 

[famicommander]

I think you just need to learn objective criticism, dude. People who say TDK or Avengers was the worst movie of all time with nothing redeeming about them because they as an individual didn't like them are simply unable to see the appeal of something that appeals to someone else. One of the great things about being a human being is being able to see things from someone else's point of view.

I don't care what anyone else's point of view is. I was stating my own subjective evaluation of it, and I labeled it as such. The person I was responding to did not. I found almost everything about it to be well below par. The music choices, the acting, the writing, the dialogue, the heavy handed foreshadowing, the entirely inconsistent tone, and the camera work are all things I do not like about the show.

It looks like both shows lost about 1/8th of their audience each week for the first three weeks. Unless the fourth week continues the downward trend, we can pretty much conclude that more people will continue to enjoy Gotham than watch Arrow. This is not measure of comparative quality, but when you see that 6 million people are continuing to watch a show and your conclusion is 'there's nothing good about the show, they're all stupid' then maybe you just don't understand entertainment.

First of all, it should be pretty obvious I wasn't comparing its overall viewership with that of Arrow's. Batman is many orders of magnitude more popular than Green Arrow, Arrow is on a network that is co-owned by DC's parent company, the expectations on CW are much lower versus Fox, and I would imagine Gotham has a much higher budget.

And I never called any of Gotham's fans stupid. I was responding to the declarative statement that both AoS and Gotham were "solid, quality wise". If other people like the show, great. I hope they enjoy it. But a large number of people liking something is not an indication of objective quality, if there can even be such a thing in the realm of art. Tens of millions of people buy Call of Duty every year, and in my opinion those games are awful. I'm not accusing people who do like them of being stupid or having poor taste, I'm challenging the notion that popularity equates to quality.

As for Gotham's trend:
8.21m->7.45m is a decline of about 760,000, or ~9.3%. 7.45m->6.36m is a decline of about 1.09m, or ~14.6%.

Arrow:
4.14m->3.55m is a decline of 590,000, or about 14.3%. 3.55m->3.05m is a decline of 500,000, or about 14.1%.

My point: Arrow's drop between the episodes was about the same, then it rebounded a bit in week 4. The decline from episode 2 to 3 of Gotham was much bigger than the one from episode 1 to 2. Like I said, it isn't enough to call it a trend yet. My point was not that Gotham is in trouble, but rather, that we have to wait and see.

 

[The Guard]

Slo mo realization of perception powers, looking back and forth in disbelief standing in front of the love interest isn't completely different

.

The details of the scenes and even the overall concept, tone and approach to the moments are completely different.

In THE FLASH, things slow-down and Gustin looks at the plate, then behind him at the keys being tossed, confused and a little surprised, then outright shocked at what has happened.

In SPIDER-MAN, Peter seems worried for MJ's safety after she slips in a puddle, but is never particularly confused or surprised or disbelieving about what happens regarding the perception change. He's actually kind of nonplussed by it, and is almost immediately more concerned with the utensil sticking to his palm, and the webbing beneath it.

Peter is also not inactive as Barry is in the scene, instead springing to his feet, deftly catching the lunch which is thrown up in the air, not dropped as it is in THE FLASH, and then smoothly catching MJ afterward.

The FLASH scene also utilizes more slow-motion than SPIDER-MAN does, which is really only a second or so of slo-mo, and then an immediate speeding up effect.

They're almost completely different scenes conceptually, and completely different approaches.

As far as the use of slo-mo, how exactly does one convey a perception of things moving slower than a character or a time lapse of some kind without yet showing said character moving faster through the perception of the viewer, if not for the use of slow motion in some fashion?

The reason it's a plate full of food is because that's what it was that happened in Barry Allen's origin story in SHOWCASE. It's a nod to a key moment of the mythology which predates Spider-Man's creation.

If anything, they probably didn't have him actually CATCH the food as he does in the comics BECAUSE of the moment in SPIDER-MAN. Which almost invariably ripped off that moment, since it predated Spider-Man's creation, let alone the film. Or it could just, you know, be similar, somewhat mundane things happening, a way to slowly build a perception of powers.

It's even the same thematically in the story, in the same place for the same reason.

This strikes me as a bit like whining that the superhero puts on a costume at the same point in a story for the same reason. Again, there's a natural progression to this type of story. There almost has to be.

This is on top of the alley realization of his transportation powers, also at the same place thematically and narratively in the story.

This is really reaching for connections. Barry runs down an alley and discovers he has superspeed before crashing into a truck full of supervillain laundry. Peter climbs a wall that happens to be in an alley. The discovery of Peter's climbing powers had a lot less to do with the alley itself and more with the walls of buildings going upward.

It's not the same thing just because it happens in an alley.

If I remember correctly, Al Simmons discovered some of his powers and abilities in an alley in 1997's SPAWN. Is THE FLASH also ripping that off? Did SPIDER-MAN rip off SPAWN?

A superhero's accidental discovery of powers is a pretty common superhero trope, and again, not unique to SPIDER-MAN.

And where else narratively in the story would these types of moment be, exactly? There's a logical progression to finding out you have powers and then using them, I would think.

This is on top of the grossly illogical "keep my daughter out of this," also at the same place in the story from the new films.

Again, where in the story should such a moment take place? It was almost immediately after West found out that Barry has powers and there are weird things going on that he made this rule, which strikes me as completely logical, not illogical in the least, given what has just happened.

This is on top of Gustin being a dead ringer for a Peter Parker, which is not how anyone would have described Barry Allen before this point.

Meh.