The Flash The flash season 2 episode 18

[haephestus]

So confused.

So, Hunter Zolomon was a psychopathic serial killer who received super speed when the particle accelerator exploded on Earth 2. He then decides to create a super heroic persona, The Flash, largely modelled on his father's uniform / attire. For a couple of years, he's a hero. Then he also creates a super villainous persona, Zoom, and stages a bunch of fights on Earth 2 using speed mirages or something else. For ... reasons. I guess just because he's gosh darn crazy.

Somewhere in there, Hunter becomes obsessed with getting even faster (even though he's already the fastest person on Earth 2). Hunter then invents Velocity 1 to 6 (or whatever version they got up to on Earth 2). Hunter becomes addicted to Velocity, with the side effect that it starts to kill him.

Then Hunter learns of Earth 1. Hunter than decides that the way to fix / cure his addiction to Velocity is to steal Barry's speed force. But, he first determines that he needs to ensure that Barry has reached his full potential before stealing the speed force. Hence the whole complicated plot with Jay Garrick being Barry's new mentor and Zoom sending various meta humans to Earth 1 to kill Barry.

As a final step in his plan, Hunter travels back in time and convinces an earlier version of himself to travel to the future on Earth 1, assume the Jay Garrick identity and be killed by Zoom.

All leading to now, with Hunter having stolen Barry's speed and kidnapped Caitlin, because the psychopathic serial killer really did care for Caitlin. For ... reasons. And now Hunter will happily retire to Earth 2 with his unwilling bride and ... do evil stuff. Evil stuff that involves a man in an iron mask who has white skin and dark blonde hair very similar to Hunter himself.

Unless there really was a super heroic Jay Garrick on another Earth and Zoom somehow captured him, stole his speed and then imprisoned him in an iron mask. Once again, for ... reasons.

Also, Team Flash are stupid. Really, really stupid. They had no plan for what would happen when the breach was reopened (or was Barry really just going to run through and battle Zoom by himself) and once Zoom captured Wally no-one though to close the breach so he couldn't get back to Earth 2 and no-one could be bothered to remember that Barry was now faster than Zoom and therefore presumably capable of rescuing Wally, taking him to the time vault where everyone else would be safely waiting, and then fighting and defeating Zoom (and immediately thereafter imprisoning him, instead of standing ahead to have a chat about their origin stories and the weather like Barry had done following his earlier victory).

I wonder whether Barry's loss of speed force will last any longer than his broken back.

EDIT: Incredibly awkward placement of Iris and Caitlin's girl talk. They've been doing so well with Barry and Iris as friends / siblings, do they really need to force a romance at this stage? And is The Flash going to embrace a new trope wherein Caitlin is kidnapped by every villain? First Grods, now Zoom and then who knows?

EDIT: Purely superficial and exploitative, but Grant Gustin really seems to be filling out the lower half of his Flash costume these days: http://www.accesshollywood.com/galleries/flash-season-2-episode-18-sneak-peek-pics-versus-zoom/#1

 

[Lencho01]

So I guess they must have made a last minute editing/filming choice with the wally scene since in this promotional shot, Barry had his mask off when Zoom showed up with Wally.

I think I saw something about Grant tweeting that he was confused why that pic was released since it was clearly a moment of them just running through the scene before shooting. That's why Wally looks so calm.

 

[haephestus]

I think I saw something about Grant tweeting that he was confused why that pic was released since it was clearly a moment of them just running through the scene before shooting. That's why Wally looks so calm.

So, the blue lightning is a practical effect not CGI? If so, it's well done. I wonder if they have a version of Barry's suit with the same lightning effect?

 

[Syncos]

So confused.

So, Hunter Zolomon was a psychopathic serial killer who received super speed when the particle accelerator exploded on Earth 2. He then decides to create a super heroic persona, The Flash, largely modelled on his father's uniform / attire. For a couple of years, he's a hero. Then he also creates a super villainous persona, Zoom, and stages a bunch of fights on Earth 2 using speed mirages or something else. For ... reasons. I guess just because he's gosh darn crazy.

Somewhere in there, Hunter becomes obsessed with getting even faster (even though he's already the fastest person on Earth 2). Hunter then invents Velocity 1 to 6 (or whatever version they got up to on Earth 2). Hunter becomes addicted to Velocity, with the side effect that it starts to kill him.

Then Hunter learns of Earth 1. Hunter than decides that the way to fix / cure his addiction to Velocity is to steal Barry's speed force. But, he first determines that he needs to ensure that Barry has reached his full potential before stealing the speed force. Hence the whole complicated plot with Jay Garrick being Barry's new mentor and Zoom sending various meta humans to Earth 1 to kill Barry.

As a final step in his plan, Hunter travels back in time and convinces an earlier version of himself to travel to the future on Earth 1, assume the Jay Garrick identity and be killed by Zoom.

All leading to now, with Hunter having stolen Barry's speed and kidnapped Caitlin, because the psychopathic serial killer really did care for Caitlin. For ... reasons. And now Hunter will happily retire to Earth 2 with his unwilling bride and ... do evil stuff. Evil stuff that involves a man in an iron mask who has white skin and dark blonde hair very similar to Hunter himself.

Unless there really was a super heroic Jay Garrick on another Earth and Zoom somehow captured him, stole his speed and then imprisoned him in an iron mask. Once again, for ... reasons.

Also, Team Flash are stupid. Really, really stupid. They had no plan for what would happen when the breach was reopened (or was Barry really just going to run through and battle Zoom by himself) and once Zoom captured Wally no-one though to close the breach so he couldn't get back to Earth 2 and no-one could be bothered to remember that Barry was now faster than Zoom and therefore presumably capable of rescuing Wally, taking him to the time vault where everyone else would be safely waiting, and then fighting and defeating Zoom (and immediately thereafter imprisoning him, instead of standing ahead to have a chat about their origin stories and the weather like Barry had done following his earlier victory).

I wonder whether Barry's loss of speed force will last any longer than his broken back.

EDIT: Purely superficial and exploitative, but Grant Gustin really seems to be filling out the lower half of his Flash costume these days: http://www.accesshollywood.com/galleries/flash-season-2-episode-18-sneak-peek-pics-versus-zoom/#1

I think there's bits of this we aren't clear on yet.
But here's how I interpreted it:

Hunter was arrested for his crimes, then got his powers.

He then created "the flash" his Jay Garrick 'character' to pretend to be a hero give people hope, get close to the people who might be able to stop him or whatever. It would be at this point that he started the V1-9 thing to get more powerful. An addiction.

Then created Zoom as a way of doing whatever terrible thing he wanted.

With speed mirages or whatever he only really needed to create one fight, where he lost (against himself) publicly, then turns "jay" into a coward who's not willing to fight zoom again.

I do hope we find out there's a good Jay Garrick though, He's a pretty significant character for The Flash. I would be ok with them "pulling a Wells" and finding another earth's "good" Garrick and him be a regular.

Maybe the man in the mask.

 

[Man of Steel]

Unless Zolomon is lying and there really is a heroic Jay Garrick.

 

[chamber-music]

Great plans Team Flash. You couldn't ko Zoom while he was snared(at least try) and I am sure nothing can go wrong with giving more power to a serial killer.

Barry really should of taken Zoom out while he could instead of gloating. Now Barry just enabled a superpowered serial killer and made himself powerless to do anything about it.

It is times like this which it would of been justifiable to kill a villain. Letting him live just empowered him.

 

[Xaviesta]

But when the season started we saw Zoom and Jay fighting right before the portal opened. Really confused right now.

 

[Web-Head]

Unless Zolomon is lying and there really is a heroic Jay Garrick.

What about the episode where "Jay" served as the hero when Barry was on earth 2, or he was injured? I can't remember which one it was.

 

[SuperBatman]

But when the season started we saw Zoom and Jay fighting right before the portal opened. Really confused right now.

No we heard a story of Zoom and Jay fighting. Jay was telling this story so who knows if the story he was telling had any truth to it at all.

 

[Reaver027]

Ok why is every Team in the DCCW Verse so stupid?
Arrow, Flash adn Legends all do stupid stuff on a regular basis. This is getting so annoying.

 

[Steyin]

This episode did nothing but piss me off really. Such horribly thought of plot points, confusing resolutions and more questions. Get to the damn point already. I'm really losing patience with a lot of shows these days. Would be better for many of them to adopt shorter seasons with fewer/no breaks.

 

[Supernova]

What about the episode where "Jay" served as the hero when Barry was on earth 2, or he was injured? I can't remember which one it was.

i can clarify that, the jay that was killed was the one zoom said he snatched from the timeline and killed to cover his tracks. Most likely that jay from the timeline predated his accident giving him super speed so when star labs ran there test and showed no speed force in his system it was a clean cover up for zoom. If those two jays constantly switched out after that i have no idea. I just know the writing is a mess this season explaining certain things.

 

[Supernova]

Ok why is every Team in the DCCW Verse so stupid?
Arrow, Flash adn Legends all do stupid stuff on a regular basis. This is getting so annoying.

I just rack it up to drama and the need to pad out full seasons.

 

[Supernova]

This episode did nothing but piss me off really. Such horribly thought of plot points, confusing resolutions and more questions. Get to the damn point already. I'm really losing patience with a lot of shows these days. Would be better for many of them to adopt shorter seasons with fewer/no breaks.

A show like this would be amazing with a shorter season. This season going back to the premiere has had way more filler episodes.

 

[chamber-music]

Some shows would certainly benefit from shorter seasons. It is well known most Showrunners and writers don't like doing 20 plus episode season shows because they find it a struggle to maintain story momentum over such a large amount of episodes.

 

[Mikelus]

Some shows would certainly benefit from shorter seasons. It is well known most Showrunners and writers don't like doing 20 plus episode season shows because they find it a struggle to maintain story momentum over such a large amount of episodes.

Yes, but plot holes and inconsistencies are the result of incompetence, shorter seasons will not change that. They need a clear vision, when it's not the case, you have plot holes and retcons. First, Zoom wanted Earth-2 villains to kill the Flash, then he didn't wanted him to die before he could steal his speed, etc. What they have done with Jay Garrick/Hunter Zolomon is a convoluted mess and a poor service to the characters, a little more respect for the source material would've been better. Greg Berlanti and company have shown they can't handle multiple shows and keep the quality, the last two seasons of Arrow, this season of The Flash, the mediocrity of Legends and Supergirl are proof of that IMO.

 

[mr_j936]

I liked this episode. I am still pissed off about the previous one(really, time wraith? and time travelers not knowing what they're doing?(whatever that means)). In this one they briefly touched on why he wouldn't go rescue wally fearing that zoom might kill him or something... I just think this whole circle is just so they can fill 5 more episodes. You could have a moping episode, a recovery episode, a rescue Caitlin episode then you know... season wrap up.

Yes this season was super filled with fillers. The whole wally and his mother so far has been useless(along with his boring racing scenes) And the whole Barry dating Patty also went nowhere. And the lousy king shark episode... They could have dedicated a couple of episodes to seeing Cisco gradually getting his powers... Maybe stopping a minor villain himself first.

 

[Supernova]

I liked this episode. I am still pissed off about the previous one(really, time wraith? and time travelers not knowing what they're doing?(whatever that means)). In this one they briefly touched on why he wouldn't go rescue wally fearing that zoom might kill him or something... I just think this whole circle is just so they can fill 5 more episodes. You could have a moping episode, a recovery episode, a rescue Caitlin episode then you know... season wrap up.

Yes this season was super filled with fillers. The whole wally and his mother so far has been useless(along with his boring racing scenes) And the whole Barry dating Patty also went nowhere. And the lousy king shark episode... They could have dedicated a couple of episodes to seeing Cisco gradually getting his powers... Maybe stopping a minor villain himself first.

Im not behind wally on this show at all, it has done nothing but got in the way of giving joe something meatier to do. Not too mention he comes off like an A-hole towards joe and everybody on the cast.

I still think earth 2 part 1 and 2 episodes were the best this year. Its sad too because this show had to waste a couple episodes setting up legends as well. Just too much filler and all over the place writing, are we sure they didnt hire entirely new writers this year because it feels like it.

 

[mr_j936]

They are also shifting away from the season 1 approach of dealing with time travel... In this season, killing a past self does nothing. In season 1 is was very well established that it causes a grandfather paradox and erases oneself from the future...

If Hunter Zoloman killing himself has no effect on him then eddy shooting himself should have had no effect on reverse flash...

 

[Supernova]

They are also shifting away from the season 1 approach of dealing with time travel... In this season, killing a past self does nothing. In season 1 is was very well established that it causes a grandfather paradox and erases oneself from the future...

If Hunter Zoloman killing himself has no effect on him then eddy shooting himself should have had no effect on reverse flash...

You know I was actually thinking about that right away. Also if zoom was dying at a quick rate from his use of v9 why wouldnt the team just wait it out and let him die on earth 2 before reopening the breach? Also after wally was freed they all just sat around and talked a few minutes, barry who was clearly faster at the moment then zoom should have ran over knockedhim out. But nah well just give a slower killer flashs speed

 

[mr_j936]

You know I was actually thinking about that right away. Also if zoom was dying at a quick rate from his use of v9 why wouldnt the team just wait it out and let him die on earth 2 before reopening the breach? Also after wally was freed they all just sat around and talked a few minutes, barry who was clearly faster at the moment then zoom should have ran over knockedhim out. But nah well just give a slower killer flashs speed

I just assumed he would stick to his word. What kind of a hero would he be if he lies cheats and betrays?

But yeah, the whole killing past self is a bit silly. Also really? he convinced himself to let himself kill himself? Wouldn't it be much simpler to say he became evil at a later point in time and that at the beginning he was genuinely good?

 

[WereCoyote]

Or that the Particle Accelerator Explosion, broke him into 2 speedster beings, Hunter Zolomon (Zoom) and Jay Garrick (The Flash), which is why he was always looking for more speed, trying to make up for the missing half of himself.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Yes, but plot holes and inconsistencies are the result of incompetence, shorter seasons will not change that. They need a clear vision, when it's not the case, you have plot holes and retcons. First, Zoom wanted Earth-2 villains to kill the Flash, then he didn't wanted him to die before he could steal his speed, etc. What they have done with Jay Garrick/Hunter Zolomon is a convoluted mess and a poor service to the characters, a little more respect for the source material would've been better. Greg Berlanti and company have shown they can't handle multiple shows and keep the quality, the last two seasons of Arrow, this season of The Flash, the mediocrity of Legends and Supergirl are proof of that IMO.

yeah, not happy with their treatment of Zolomon, they should've used the characters backstory and powers like they were in the comics, what they've done here is give him a stereotypical serial killer backstory instead of the frankly heartbreaking one he has in the comics, and swapped out his interesting variation of superspeed for a version identical to Barry's, and now that it seems pretty much confirmed that there isn't a real Jay Garrick I think it's safe to say I hate what the show has done with the golden age Flash by just making him an alias for the villain.

 

[Supernova]

Im curious at what Point is this show gonna be told they cant do certain things because
Of the movie? Or do certain characters like they comic counterparts because the movie needs it?

 

[Silliminite]

The less said about this episode, the better. I've already vented at how stupid certain aspects of a past episode were, and it's happened here again. If by the end of the season, I'm left feeling the same amount of disappointment and frustration as I was at the end of this episode, I won't be returning next season.