"The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 1

[The Joker]

Nah the complaints boil down to "he was terrible", because he was terrible.

Exactly. Simple as that.

Hey, I mean he's saying good things.

I'm a bit torn on the idea. I definitely prefer The Joker more as an unknown, and I think the dynamic between him and Batman is what can really elevate both characters and create something special.

At the same time, there have been attempts to do one-off Joker stories that I think have worked, like Lee Bermejo's graphic novel for instance. I don't have so much of a problem with it as a concept, but in terms of branding I do think this Elseworlds thing could be potentially very muddy and send mixed signals to the audience. It's great from a creative standpoint, but I think the marketing angle is still an unknown quantity and a risk.

For instance, say Pheonix's Joker turns out great- but he's just a one and done, and has nothing to do with this new Batman universe that Matt Reeves is building, now Reeves has to not only create a new version of the Joker if he wants to use him, but create one in a context where there's another big screen Joker that's fresh in everyone's mind.

Obviously, multiple incarnations of these characters are always existing simultaneously in various forms of media. The more untested thing is doing that from movie to movie. But it's also easy to see why WB might feel like, "F*** it, we have nothing to lose" at this point. And if we end up getting a great movie out of it, then I'm all for it.

Solid way of looking at it. At this point after Letoker, its hard to imagine a worse Joker incarnation. So in that regard they can only go up. How far up they go is another story.

 

[Wheels]

The just cancelled Gotham you mean? The show that struggled to garner high ratings across its entire run? Let’s not use that as an example of how not featuring Batman in something leads to success...

Um this post makes zero sense. I never said this Joker film would be successful. Just that Gotham did the Batman without Batman idea.


Joker as a character works best with Batman, I think most would agree with that sentiment, but this movie could still be entertaining

 

[Brother Jack]

Other than Scorsese, though who knows to what degree he'll be directly involved, Phoenix is about the only reason I'm interested in this. You're talking about a guy that does not take any role for a paycheck. The very fact that he's interested at all implies that there's something to this.

 

[Greens]

I expect the executives at WB have already shared this same thought, and I would imagine that they'd play it by ear.

If this movie comes out and performs very well, and Phoenix absolutely knocks it out of the park, there's no way WB doesn't at least ask the guy if he'd be interested in sitting down with Reeves on a Batman film. And if Phoenix says no, then you move on. Perhaps not ideal, but you at least extended the offer.

Who knows, maybe Phoenix changes his mind. He hasn't gone through the experience of playing the character yet.

 

[Wheels]

Eh, just give me Superman movie set in the 30s/40s and I'll get on board with this separate brand deal.

 

[Boom]

Who knows, maybe Phoenix changes his mind. He hasn't gone through the experience of playing the character yet.

It's like I said on the Bat Boards. I don't think it's so much that Phoenix is adamantly against the idea of sequels or playing the same character multiple times. I think what gives him pause is the idea of signing a multi-film contract blind. Had he signed on for Doctor Strange, for example, he'd have committed to a minimum of three solo films and three Avengers films, five of which don't even have scripts. Just from reading Phoenix's comments on the last page, obviously reading the script and sitting down with the director is an important process for him. You definitely get the sense that signing onto a film that doesn't have a script or director in place worries him. You quell those fears, and he may prove more receptive.

So yeah. If this movie comes out and he crushes it, and down the road Reeves wants to re-introduce The Joker in a proper Batman film, perhaps WB arranges Phoenix to sit down with him and see if he'd be interested in coming back. That's about all you can do.

 

[Greens]

It's like I said on the Bat Boards. I don't think it's so much that Phoenix is adamantly against the idea of sequels or playing the same character multiple times. I think what gives him pause is the idea of signing a multi-film contract blind. Had he signed on for Doctor Strange, for example, he'd have committed to a minimum of three solo films and three Avengers films, five of which don't even have scripts. Just from reading Phoenix's comments on the last page, obviously reading the script and sitting down with the director is an important process for him. I get the impression that signing onto a film that doesn't even have a script or director in place would worry him. You quell those fears, and he may prove more receptive.

So yeah. If this movie comes out and he crushes it, and down the road Reeves wants to re-introduce The Joker in a proper Batman film, perhaps WB arranges Phoenix to sit down with him and see if he'd be interested in coming back. That's about all you can do.

Good point. He just wants to do things on a case by case basis.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Eh, just give me Superman movie set in the 30s/40s and I'll get on board with this separate brand deal.

That would be amazing

Superman in an Art Deco inspired metropolis is one of my dream films

 

[Boom]

Good point. He just wants to do things on a case by case basis.

That's my theory anyway. Obviously he could say something tomorrow that proves me wrong, but my understanding is he was very deep in talks for Doctor Strange. You don't get "deep in talks" if you're not interested.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Hey, I mean he's saying good things.

I'm a bit torn on the idea. I definitely prefer The Joker more as an unknown, and I think the dynamic between him and Batman is what can really elevate both characters and create something special.

At the same time, there have been attempts to do one-off Joker stories that I think have worked, like Lee Bermejo's graphic novel for instance. I don't have so much of a problem with it as a concept, but in terms of branding I do think this Elseworlds thing could be potentially very muddy and send mixed signals to the audience. It's great from a creative standpoint, but I think the marketing angle is still an unknown quantity and a risk.

For instance, say Pheonix's Joker turns out great- but he's just a one and done, and has nothing to do with this new Batman universe that Matt Reeves is building, now Reeves has to not only create a new version of the Joker if he wants to use him, but create one in a context where there's another big screen Joker that's fresh in everyone's mind.

Obviously, multiple incarnations of these characters are always existing simultaneously in various forms of media. The more untested thing is doing that from movie to movie. But it's also easy to see why WB might feel like, "F*** it, we have nothing to lose" at this point. And if we end up getting a great movie out of it, then I'm all for it.

This is how I feel at this point in all honestly. I will say that Phoenix is definitely the thing that has me most curious about this since he's such a good actor. What i do think is that it'll be better than letos joker thats for sure, and I think if anything in this film is definitely gonna deliver, it's Phoenix.

 

[Flint Marko]

That would be amazing

Superman in an Art Deco inspired metropolis is one of my dream films

I had no idea how badly I wanted that until now.

 

[Nemeres]

If true... dumb as a sack of dead spaniels.

The Joker’s creation, character and rasion d’etre is inextricably tied up with Batman. No Batman, no Joker. To try and do a Joker origin story that does not feature Batman would be like trying to do a Spider-man movie with no spiders in it.

This smacks of DC’s idiotic mentality of ‘protecting’ the Batman character for just high profile movies. All of which have been utter ****, recently of course.

The Joker's been the villain in two pretty defining Batman films. It's ok to momentarily take him out of that context at this point, I think. If new Batman/Joker films don't measure up or fail to stand out as something not redundant, you'd be doing that Joker actor no favors.

As for Leto's Joker, I don't think it's horrible-horrible. But it felt partly like recycled Ledgerisms. The voice, for instance: nasal when funny, raspy when scary. A lot of energy put into something only half-cooked. While the elements that are new seem to just be there to complement the tone of the film. The fact that his role is relatively small makes everything about him feel like only a superficial addition.

 

[Pennywise]

Earlier today we spoke with the absolutely lovely Joaquin Phoenix about his brilliant new film "Don't Worry, He Won't Get Far On Foot." That film, which reunites him with his "To Die For" director Gus Van Sant, is a postcard-sized character study of American cartoonist John Callahan. Just yesterday it was announced that he'd officially signed on to something much, much bigger: Warner Bros' standalone 'Joker' film, to be directed by Todd Phillips and executive produced by Martin Scorsese.

We couldn't help but ask the actor why, when he'd been very publicly courted for lead role in Marvel Studios' "Doctor Strange," he would sign on to do this comic book adaptation instead.

"Well, the one thing that only consistently motivates me is the character and the filmmaker. And so it just has happened that those things have never come together for a bigger movie but I'm not opposed to any genre or any size of film," Phoenix explained. "I typically make films that are maybe more independent, that's where I've found the most interesting characters and the things I want to pursue, but I'm not opposed to any film. But I will say that I don't think you can equate this movie with some of those other movies that you've talked about."

When we asked if this would be something completely different, Phoenix wryly shot back, "I don't know what it's going to be. So I'll just leave it at that."

https://www.moviefone.com/2018/07/11/exclusive-joaquin-phoenix-talks-taking-on-the-joker/I

 

[Grommers]

I think this will be actually really promising, at first I didn't know if a Joker film could work, but after reading "Brian Azarello's Joker"

I'm totally down for a standalone joker movie, unlike many other villains, I think he's a character that can stand on his own. Also if this movie is outside of the DCEU even better, although they should really improve on Leto joker before releasing this one, to solidify his character.

 

[FunkMiller]

I had no idea how badly I wanted that until now.

Me either. That sounds incredible. Fleicher’s Superman made flesh? Wow.

 

[FunkMiller]

The Joker's been the villain in two pretty defining Batman films. It's ok to momentarily take him out of that context at this point, I think. If new Batman/Joker films don't measure up or fail to stand out as something not redundant, you'd be doing that Joker actor no favors.

.

Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against a Batman free Joker story (Bermejo) but a Batman free Joker origin story? No. Just no. That’s the only point I was making.

 

[Boom]

"Well, the one thing that only consistently motivates me is the character and the filmmaker. And so it just has happened that those things have never come together for a bigger movie but I'm not opposed to any genre or any size of film," Phoenix explained. "I typically make films that are maybe more independent, that's where I've found the most interesting characters and the things I want to pursue, but I'm not opposed to any film. But I will say that I don't think you can equate this movie with some of those other movies that you've talked about."

See, I don't think him popping up in a Batman film is entirely out of the question. Just sit him down with Matt Reeves and a script and see if it clicks.

 

[Flint Marko]

Yup. Any and everything is on the table at this point far as I'm concerned. It's just too early to say no to any possibility.

 

[FunkMiller]

See, I don't think him popping up in a Batman film is entirely out of the question. It's a matter of him sitting down with Matt Reeves and the script and seeing if it clicks.

Jesus. They’d have to make sure their Batman was extremely good to go toe to toe with Phoenix if he’s on a roll as Joker. Bale pretty much managed to keep up with Ledger, but it was touch and go. The actor playing Batman would have to be on the top of his game. It certainly couldn’t be Affleck.

I could also see Phoenix’s Joker fulfilling a Hannibal Lecter type role, more than being the main villain.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Eh, just give me Superman movie set in the 30s/40s and I'll get on board with this separate brand deal.

I love this idea.

And they could even use it to launch a shared universe if they wanted to, because Superman doesn't age like normal people do. So they could include him in a modern day JL movie, but also have a trilogy of 1940s solo adventures with him, establishing him as "the original" superhero.

 

[terry78]

I do hate that Gyllenhaal isn't available now. Though they are playing off each other in the Sisters Brothers.

 

[Deck Rickard]

LOL yeah, I knew nothing about that movie until I saw a preview before... Solo, maybe? I was like, "WTF is this?" And then I was like, "Jaoquin Phoenix is in this? What?!!"

 

[FunkMiller]

I do hate that Gyllenhaal isn't available now. Though they are playing off each other in the Sisters Brothers.

Yes. That’s a great shame. The fact he’d rather go play a man with a goldfish bowl on his head is rather telling of how the DC movies are regarded these days.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Yes. That’s a great shame. The fact he’d rather go play a man with a goldfish bowl on his head is rather telling of how the DC movies are regarded these days.

Hahahaha seriously.

But hey, The Guard thinks the DCEU is awesome, so maybe we just aren’t sophisticated enough to understand WB's brilliance or something.

 

[Gothamsknight]

See, I don't think him popping up in a Batman film is entirely out of the question. Just sit him down with Matt Reeves and a script and see if it clicks.

If that indeed does happen at some point, I truly hope affleck is out and out for good. A clean slate is absolutely needed from the stuff we've gotten recently.