Justice League The Joss Whedon Thread

[Benal]

I imagine Joss writing down for Superman "I like truth and I'm a big fan of justice" which a huge grin on his face thinking about how clever his line is, "Fans love this kind of stuff" etc.

Hey Idiot09. Sup bro. Was banned for about a month. Did you guys notice?

I rather think ridiculing Whedon and company for their contributions to this cinematic universe, when we also have the unfettered idiocy of Martha and the Knightmare sequence, is somewhat unfair.

The fact is very, very few people creatively involved in this dire ****show come out smelling good, and playing one off against another is an exercise in self deception.

I just think it's funny. That's all. Did you see me calling Snyder's Superman great.. Like, ever?

 

[idiot09]

Hey Idiot09. Sup bro. Was banned for about a month. Did you guys notice?

Yeah I did. Thought you were taking a break from this site. Good to see you're back.

 

[C. Lee]

Keep the crass attempts at jokes out of here.

 

[auditor]

Joss wheddon liked a tweet referring to Steppenwolf as the worst movie villain of all time. Fans of the movie basically told wheddon to go to hell.

 

[Arachnerd]

That's almost one week old news, though.

 

[dw4000]

Keep whedon as far away from these properties as possible. If left unchecked he would turn batgirl into a stand up comedian like he does with every other character. Plus the bad PR he would attract. F that. Use resources to make films of major characters.

 

[auditor]

Keep whedon as far away from these properties as possible. If left unchecked he would turn batgirl into a stand up comedian like he does with every other character. Plus the bad PR he would attract. F that. Use resources to make films of major characters.

avengers 1 was a critical masterpiece and 2 was well recieved as well. It also set up all the seeds for phase 3 with the hulk going awall and and half the team being locked up.

 

[FunkMiller]

Keep whedon as far away from these properties as possible. If left unchecked he would turn batgirl into a stand up comedian like he does with every other character. Plus the bad PR he would attract. F that. Use resources to make films of major characters.

Hey gang.... here’s a wild idea:

Why don’t we keep everyone that’s been involved in this slow motion four year car crash away from DC movies in the future?

Snyder, Whedon, Tsujihara, Johns, etc.

NONE of them have done a good job.

And Snyder is as responsible for JL as Whedon, if not more so.

 

[Lily Adler]

That's crazy talk. Zaddy is our lord and savior.

 

[Gu3ree]

So the entire Gotham rooftop Parademon fight was all Whedon, or just parts? I thought visually it looked very Snyder-esque.

 

[heatvision38]

I’m just talking about Snyder apologists.

Assuming you've seen seen Watchmen, MOS, and BvS, do you really think a lot of this movie is what Snyder directed or planned? Does this feel like a Snyder movie? I am not saying it's a Whedon movie, either, but it certainly doesn't feel like a Snyder movie.

One thing you can always tell, whether you like his style or movies or not, Snyder's work has a voice. Justice League did not have a voice. It was kinda just there.

 

[markjoedelonge]

So the entire Gotham rooftop Parademon fight was all Whedon, or just parts? I thought visually it looked very Snyder-esque.

All Whedon.

 

[heatvision38]

Hm, so cast and crew were "adamantly" against those Whedon JL jokes but because people laughed at test screenings WB let those in the movie.

I thought it was very weird and quite disgusting making fun of some strong BvS moments then I realized it's the reshoots. Man, it must be so anger inducing to have to do this kind of stuff when you think it's garbage, dishonor and disservice. "Do you bleed?" says a man to a god, then [BLACKOUT]you have this scary situation where it's used by a crazed and mad god against a man[/BLACKOUT], turned into [BLACKOUT]"ouch, I definitely bleed somewhere"[/BLACKOUT]. F*** this s***.

Hey, Consona, I've seen a few people say that members of the cast and crew were against the added humor. Do you have any links to this. I'd like to read about it. Thanks.

 

[markjoedelonge]

Assuming you've seen seen Watchmen, MOS, and BvS, do you really think a lot of this movie is what Snyder directed or planned? Does this feel like a Snyder movie? I am not saying it's a Whedon movie, either, but it certainly doesn't feel like a Snyder movie.

One thing you can always tell, whether you like his style or movies or not, Snyder's work has a voice. Justice League did not have a voice. It was kinda just there.

Yup. I felt flashes of that "voice" in the opening credits, Icky Thump sequence, first Superman sequence and the back shot of the League united.

 

[heatvision38]

What a disgustingly rude reply. I’m sorry that talking with respect isn’t possible for you.

It’s 100% true what he’s saying. If JL had satisfied everyone, people would be using it to praise Snyder. But JL isn’t good, so it’s easy to point the finger like Joss came in, took a fabulous 2 and a half hour movie, and butchered it for no reason.

That's a reductive argument. A big part of why JL failed (not just for those who don't like Snyder, but also for those who do) is that it wasn't like a Snyder movie or anything else. It was a weird mishmash of a movie. So using the hypothetical "If it had succeeded" to base your premise on how people would have responded assumes too much about why it might have succeeded. What we do know is that it didn't succeed because of all the behind the scenes crap and the mix of directors and all the changes, etc, etc, etc. That's what we do know. To assume what might have happened doesn't help when that scenario never actually happened.

 

[heatvision38]

Keep whedon as far away from these properties as possible. If left unchecked he would turn batgirl into a stand up comedian like he does with every other character. Plus the bad PR he would attract. F that. Use resources to make films of major characters.

I find it fascinating how much people have turned on Whedon. The guy is responsible for Buffy, Angel (my personal favorite show), Firefly, and the movie off that show, Serenity, and the Avengers. Serenity actually is a well-balanced movie. Sure, it has Whedonisms, but before Age of Ultron (and perhaps before Avengers, though I do love that movie), Whedon was known for his wit combined with heartfelt drama and mythology all really well balanced. I think Age of Ultron really soured people on him fast.

 

[heatvision38]

So the entire Gotham rooftop Parademon fight was all Whedon, or just parts? I thought visually it looked very Snyder-esque.

I agree. Batman's reflection in the window, the fight sequence, Batman dodging behind the the water tower, that did have elements of Snyder. Then the guy sort of hopping into the screen after the parademon explodes hurting the tension with some humor, that definitely was Whedon. It's possible that was all Whedon or some combination of the two. The actor who played opposite Affleck in that scene said there was originally a more humorous take on that scene but those above Whedon wouldn't allow it, so perhaps that whole scene was Whedon.

 

[heatvision38]

Yup. I felt flashes of that "voice" in the opening credits, Icky Thump sequence, first Superman sequence and the back shot of the League united.

That montage with the song was the most Snyder-y scene in the whole movie. It felt right out of Watchmen and I thought it was going to set up the inverse of Watchmen, whereas that movie shows the world only descending further into decadence, this movie would show the world ascending towards hope and light with Superman's return and the JL's existence as a whole. Unfortunately, the movie sort of forgets it was seemingly going in that direction.

 

[FunkMiller]

I find it fascinating how much people have turned on Whedon. The guy is responsible for Buffy, Angel (my personal favorite show), Firefly, and the movie off that show, Serenity, and the Avengers. Serenity actually is a well-balanced movie. Sure, it has Whedonisms, but before Age of Ultron (and perhaps before Avengers, though I do love that movie), Whedon was known for his wit combined with heartfelt drama and mythology all really well balanced. I think Age of Ultron really soured people on him fast.

Really? The Snyder fans can't accept that he is in any way responsible for the failure of Justice League, so Whedon becomes the bad guy. Whereas the truth is that Snyder's previous movies are the main reason why JL is flopping, while the studio interference with Whedon just made things worse.

 

[Lily Adler]

In other words, Joss and WB were trying to polish a turd.

 

[FunkMiller]

In other words, Joss and WB were trying to polish a turd.

Yes, I'd say so. BvS was a turd, and there's no reason to expect that a pure Snyder Justice League wouldn't have followed along the same lines. It would probably have been a bit better, just because it would have paid some things off, but the box office would still have been as bas as it is - because, as I keep saying until I'm blue in the face - people hated BvS and weren't prepared to come out for Justice League.

 

[markjoedelonge]

Yes, I'd say so. BvS was a turd, and there's no reason to expect that a pure Snyder Justice League wouldn't have followed along the same lines. It would probably have been a bit better, just because it would have paid some things off, but the box office would still have been as bas as it is - because, as I keep saying until I'm blue in the face - people hated BvS and weren't prepared to come out for Justice League.

Maybe you should try shutting up then.

 

[harlequinade]

 

[Lily Adler]

 

[elgaz]

I don't dislike Joss Whedon. Some of his films I've loved, and there's no denying that much of the success of Avengers was down to him.

But bringing a director like him on board - one who's known for a lighter and more comedic take on things - to finish a Zack Snyder film, was a mistake IMO.

Whether you disliked MOS and BvS or not (I loved both), there's no denying that Snyder had a very clear tone and style and was trying to build the characters in this new DC universe. By changing that style and tone substantially in JL (not just with reshoots, but in terms of editing and affecting the pacing) it made the film much more generic and middling. It wasn't a bad film in my opinion, but it was nowhere near the epic event that I had been expecting - for years - that the first cinematic Justice League live action movie would be (discounting that 80s TV one). Everything in the film seemed to lack focus.

IMO they should have got a director closer to Snyder's sensibilities. Maybe it wouldn't have been as funny (assuming you found JL funny) or as light, but it would at least have been consistent in terms of the 3-movie arc that Snyder was working towards.