The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 5

[JoeyConQueso]

The few episodes of that F4…cartoon I enjoyed, for me it was more…when was it on…it seemed like it's schedule rotated, or it was taken out of schedule quite a bit…was it on CN…I could have sworn it was on Nicktoons…

CN was the original network. It got a bad timeslot, was aired out of order and then it kind of dropped off the schedule before a lot of episodes aired and they dumped it on Boomerang. Nicktoons grabbed it for their Marvel block after they were doing well with the Iron Man and Wolverine cartoons and finally aired it all.

 

[Mr.M]

I think its a big F U to them all but you are right about it being more so towards WB/DC. WB bragging about bringing their two biggest characters to the screen together for the first time is supposedly having Marvel shaking in its boots. Imagine Marvel being as big as it is now adding arguably the biggest character in comics who rivals Batman and you have a slam dunk. We now realize Fox can't just crossover F4 and Xmen so it at least slows down Fox's momentum but I think it sends a message to WB more than anything.

Is there any tangible evidence that Spidey is joining Avengers 3? Probably not if I had to guess. Eventually, yeah. 2020's I'd presume, when Disney either acquires the rights in full or Sony simply lends the character part time before fully turning the character over. But as of now, I don't see a timetable for Spidey coming in any time in the near future.

 

[Eddie]

Is there any tangible evidence that Spidey is joining Avengers 3? Probably not if I had to guess. Eventually, yeah. 2020's I'd presume, when Disney either acquires the rights in full or Sony simply lends the character part time before fully turning the character over. But as of now, I don't see a timetable for Spidey coming in any time in the near future.

Nothing solid as of yet, but it is interesting that one of Sony's divisions (the video game part of the company) recently announced a partnership with Disney. The partnership is bringing Hulk to Sony versions of the next Disney Infinity before other consoles. On some level, Disney and Sony are willing to work together on Marvel content. No Marvel/Fox collaborations have happened in quite some time.

 

[Zarex]

Nothing solid as of yet, but it is interesting that one of Sony's divisions (the video game part of the company) recently announced a partnership with Disney. The partnership is bringing Hulk to Sony versions of the next Disney Infinity before other consoles. On some level, Disney and Sony are willing to work together on Marvel content. No Marvel/Fox collaborations have happened in quite some time.

It certainly helps that Sony is in such precarious financial position. Universal, FOX & Sony were able to cut fantastic deals with Marvel when that company was teetering on the verge of bankruptcy, and Sony needs Disney's help to avoid that same fate. At the present time, FOX can afford to go it alone.

 

[SpideyFan866]

Is there any tangible evidence that Spidey is joining Avengers 3? Probably not if I had to guess. Eventually, yeah. 2020's I'd presume, when Disney either acquires the rights in full or Sony simply lends the character part time before fully turning the character over. But as of now, I don't see a timetable for Spidey coming in any time in the near future.

The only tangible evidence that he could potentially enter the MCU w/ A3 is the confirmed talks between Marvel Studios and Sony to have a unified skyline, and in turn, a unified universe.


And ass it stands, it looks like the possibilty of Sony and MS striking a deal has grown exponentially, with Sony having had a disappointing outing with ASM2 (with their future projects being cast in serious doubt), and with Marvel needing a serious trump card against Fox's newly found success and reboot of the X franchise and WB/DC's rumored DCCU plan.

Because, sooner or later (and now for Sony), Spider-Man being successful because he's Spider-Man, and the MCU films being successful just because its the MCU, won't last forever.

 

[SpideyFan866]

This is also why we've heard about Marvel pulling out all the stops to force Fox to relinquish the F4 rights. And while the F4 are nice, they won't make nearly as big a splash as reaquiring/sharing the Spidey rights would.

And let's face it....... striking a deal with Sony to share the Spidey rights is infinitely easier than getting Fox to give up ANY of there cbm rights, let alone F4 (which Marvel wants the most)

 

[starscream22]

She is only saying she would love to do it, not that she ever asked Marvel to do it. Putting an offer on the table is a whole different ball game. That would have been huge news.

Reminds me of the saying: "Wish in one hand, s##t in the other, see which fills up first".

Like us wishing for a great 616 based FF film I suppose...

That was her asking... In fact it was more like her to saying to Feige "Look I got you in this business, now do us a solid" to which Disney likely said "Dream on!"

But not before their newly appointed poor mans "Joss Whedon" started begging to be part of the MCU and then came Jackman. So at that point did you really need an engraved invite to know what was going on over at Fox at least from a producer's perspective? Jobs were clearly at stake.

Giving Fox the Viper character to be misused in that Logan sequel was probably Feige's last favor to that Studio. But that's just my speculation as to why Marvel would green light that character to FOX to b@stardize in the first place.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

It seems like integrating Spider-Man into the universe could be a fairly simple, open-ended thing.

There could be some simple references in the Spider-Man films that acknowledge the existence of the other characters and vice-versa. It wouldn't cost either side anything and would help both sides.

Eventually, they could look at a cross-over and negotiate how they'll do it at that time. As long as they're in the same universe, it just keeps that door open.

I would have hoped something similar could have happened with FF, but that seems extremely unlikely now.

Who knows though, Kinberg seemed to be choosing his words very carefully regarding X-Men, FF and them being in different realities. Maybe they're actually working on something with Marvel.

And while X-Men has their own, unique reality, they could always be part of an 'Alternate Earth' similar to variations we've seen in the comics and meet up with the others at some point.

I think the ball on these particular details is in Marvel's court. If they don't take an 'all or nothing' approach and are willing to work these things out without their only goal being to get these properties back at any cost, there are some interesting, mutually beneficial opportunities possible.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

One complication with FF as opposed to Spider-Man is the nature of threats such as Galactus. It would be difficult to integrate something like that into the Marvel reality without very direct cooperation.

Spider-Man is a lot simpler because he's a smaller character with smaller stories that wouldn't conflict as much.

 

[Zarex]

One complication with FF as opposed to Spider-Man is the nature of threats such as Galactus. It would be difficult to integrate something like that into the Marvel reality without very direct cooperation.

Spider-Man is a lot simpler because he's a smaller character with smaller stories that wouldn't conflict as much.

My idea, which I've posted on the Spidey boards, is to have Spider-Man appear onscreen with the Netflix Defenders team. Daredevil, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones and Iron Fist make much better teammates for the Webslinger than the Avengers, and on screen team-up could be beneficial for both companies if the Marvel Netflix series is a success.

A "Spider-Man and the Defenders" movie could A) Get the ASM Franchise back on track, B) Put Marvel's street heroes on the big screen without Marvel Studios footing the bill and C) enable Disney/Marvel to sell a ton of tie-in merchandise, while D) Allowing Spidey to keep top billing. The particulars would have to be worked out - Marvel would want a taste of the box office revenues - but I think this would be easier than an Avengers tie-in.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

My idea, which I've posted on the Spidey boards, is to have Spider-Man appear onscreen with the Netflix Defenders team. Daredevil, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones and Iron Fist make much better teammates for the Webslinger than the Avengers, and on screen team-up could be beneficial for both companies if the Marvel Netflix series is a success.

A "Spider-Man and the Defenders" movie could A) Get the ASM Franchise back on track, B) Put Marvel's street heroes on the big screen without Marvel Studios footing the bill and C) enable Disney/Marvel to sell a ton of tie-in merchandise, while D) Allowing Spidey to keep top billing. The particulars would have to be worked out - Marvel would want a taste of the box office revenues - but I think this would be easier than an Avengers tie-in.

That would be cool.

I'd also like to see either Marvel on their own, or perhaps in cooperation with Sony start doing some good old-fashioned team-ups. Just mixing and matching some heroes without going the whole Avengers route:

Spider Man and Iron Man
Ant Man and Captain America
Thor and Groot

etc.

Sony and Marvel could probably work a deal in which Marvel would 'lend' Iron Man to Sony for one film and then Marvel would get to use Spider-Man in a future Marvel project.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I think those team-ups could be the key to keeping things fresh. We've seen Spider-Man, we're getting a little bored with him. We've seen Iron Man, we're getting a little bored with him, but we haven't seen Spider-Man and Iron Man working together. That dynamic of the two characters working together could create a whole new feel (like the Avengers did when we got to see those characters together).

 

[Eddie]

Had Sony and Marvel worked together from the beginning, a fair trade would have been Marvel getting Spidey and associated characters for Marvel funded Avengers films and cameo appearances and Sony getting access to Team-Up films (inspired by Marvel Team-Up, which was mostly a Spidey book). That would have also allowed Sony to do annual films without having to resort to Sinister Six. A nice rotation could go something like The Amazing Spider-Man 2, Spider-Man and Daredevil (featuring Kingpin and Black Cat), Black Cat, The Amazing Spider-Man 3, etc.

Realistically, X-Men Days of Future Past could have tied in if the stubborn people working on the film didn't throw in Quicksilver last minute. Something tells me The Grounded Quartet would have never been approved by Marvel, though.

 

[Spiderine]

Its real easy to look back in hindsight at what these studios should have done. Nobody knew that Avengers was going to be the mega success it became. It set a new standard for comic book films. Somebody had to show the industry how its done first. Sony still thought they had a goldmine with Spidey so they weren't thinking of team ups.

As far as Spidey in the MCU with Sony and Disney cooperating.........I will believe it when I see it.

 

[Donut]

If Spidey were to get in the MCU. I say reboot him at that time

 

[Docker2.0]

If Spidey were to get in the MCU. I say reboot him at that time

Well it depends. If Garfield is serious about ASM3 being his last, then reboot it before he appears in A3. But that movie will be the film of a lifetime and it should be RDJ's last as IronMan so if Garfield agrees to be in it, I say let him but then reboot it afterwards. Even though I can't stand Ultimate Spiderman's cartoon, it shows how Spidey could fit into MCU with the street hero's or Defenders if you will. It would be amazing to see the Punisher hunt Spidey after JJJ's constant tv brainwashing of NYC's citizens.

 

[Mr.M]

I thought they had Garfield for four? If that's not the case, then clearly the play would be to get him in a Sinister Six movie with some MCU tie ins in ASM3 itself. This will bulk up Spidey's box office is he has "help" against Ock and the rest of the gang. Then you can angle that into Avengers 3, giving Garfield a supporting role. Would he take a pay cut though? And could they feasibly work Spidey into a branch of phase 3 as it stands now? I don't buy Thor 3 being a high priority after Dark World, sorry.

Otherwise, the cross over will have to come after Garfield, meaning they will probably need yet another reboot of the character when Spidey is finally ready to join the MCU full time. Or you could just recast with a younger actor. But I would rather they try to get Garfield in A3, otherwise the payoff isn't there. And if that is just way too unreasonable, which I would agree it is, then at least get him involved (along with Webb) in launching some extended Spidey universe that goes beyond this Sinister Six and Venom talk. You need a greater umbrella of Marvel characters, and Garfield/Webb's version could easily provide a linchpin for something. Unfortunately Spidey is too big for Netflix beyond a Peter Parker cameo.

 

[Docker2.0]

I thought they had Garfield for four? If that's not the case, then clearly the play would be to get him in a Sinister Six movie with some MCU tie ins in ASM3 itself. This will bulk up Spidey's box office is he has "help" against Ock and the rest of the gang. Then you can angle that into Avengers 3, giving Garfield a supporting role. Would he take a pay cut though? And could they feasibly work Spidey into a branch of phase 3 as it stands now? I don't buy Thor 3 being a high priority after Dark World, sorry.

Otherwise, the cross over will have to come after Garfield, meaning they will probably need yet another reboot of the character when Spidey is finally ready to join the MCU full time. Or you could just recast with a younger actor. But I would rather they try to get Garfield in A3, otherwise the payoff isn't there. And if that is just way too unreasonable, which I would agree it is, then at least get him involved (along with Webb) in launching some extended Spidey universe that goes beyond this Sinister Six and Venom talk. You need a greater umbrella of Marvel characters, and Garfield/Webb's version could easily provide a linchpin for something. Unfortunately Spidey is too big for Netflix beyond a Peter Parker cameo.

Thor 2 made over $640M WW, how can it not be a priority? Is that considered a flop now?

 

[Mr.M]

Thor 2 made over $640M WW, how can it not be a priority? Is that considered a flop now?

I said high priority. But they are not going to position that in a part of the year where it will be released in a peak season. If it can find some space in 2017 and Marvel has nothing else to fall back on, it will be made. But I don't think it is a necessity, especially if the scenario I laid out comes to fruition. They are not going to compromise the introduction of Spidey in the MCU with a Thor film, that's the only point I am making.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

What's all this talk of Spidey being part of the MCU? It seems like Sony and Marvel are on friendlier terms than Fox and Marvel but I doubt Sony wants to share their profits. Plus after the reception of ASM 2 I don't think Marvel would want to taint their pristine MCU with a franchise that seems to be going off the rails?

Don't get me wrong - if it ever did happen I would be ecstatic - but after suffering the disappointment of the FF reboot getting made within months (weeks???) of the reversion date I just can't get my hopes up for that sort of thing.

However, Spider-Man's the kind of character that doesn't need an introduction. They could soft reboot him into the MCU just like they did with the Hulk. Everybody knows who Spidey is and how he got his powers. Just move on to the good stuff.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

I very much want to see a Thor 3 film. With Loki on the throne there's all sorts of story potential. Plus Thor is a lynchpin Avenger and Marvel's not going to kick him to the curb - especially after the box office he brings as Docker mentions. They announced the writers some time ago. I think Marvel is just reassessing and taking their time with the story. They care about their characters and don't want to take any missteps. I suspect the rumors are true and they butted heads with Taylor too much. Listen to Derrickson describe his passion for Doctor Strange or the story about the Russos pitching Marvel on doing Cap and you'll see the kind of guys they want helming their projects.

 

[Docker2.0]

What's all this talk of Spidey being part of the MCU? It seems like Sony and Marvel are on friendlier terms than Fox and Marvel but I doubt Sony wants to share their profits. Plus after the reception of ASM 2 I don't think Marvel would want to taint their pristine MCU with a franchise that seems to be going off the rails?

Don't get me wrong - if it ever did happen I would be ecstatic - but after suffering the disappointment of the FF reboot getting made within months (weeks???) of the reversion date I just can't get my hopes up for that sort of thing.

However, Spider-Man's the kind of character that doesn't need an introduction. They could soft reboot him into the MCU just like they did with the Hulk. Everybody knows who Spidey is and how he got his powers. Just move on to the good stuff.

According to numerous websites and geeks online, Sony and Marvel have come to some agreement due to ASM2 underachieving. They were expecting $1B WW but it didn't happen. Will it happen? Time will tell. But do to Sony giving Marvel some of the Spidey rights back already and the studio being in a financial bind, I wouldn't be surprised if it's true.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

However, Spider-Man's the kind of character that doesn't need an introduction. They could soft reboot him into the MCU just like they did with the Hulk. Everybody knows who Spidey is and how he got his powers. Just move on to the good stuff.

I agree. Casting different actors and maybe making some revisions to villains doesn't require a real 'reboot'.

At some point it should be like James Bond. They don't need to re-define him with each film. I think audiences can handle a modified Lizard showing up at some point without going back and starting all over again.

 

[Kanon]

Spidey always seemed shoehorned with the likes of the avengers. The FF are on the other point of the spectrum, almost mandatory when it comes to planetary threats.

 

[Mysteryman]

The only tangible evidence that he could potentially enter the MCU w/ A3 is the confirmed talks between Marvel Studios and Sony to have a unified skyline, and in turn, a unified universe.


And ass it stands, it looks like the possibilty of Sony and MS striking a deal has grown exponentially, with Sony having had a disappointing outing with ASM2 (with their future projects being cast in serious doubt), and with Marvel needing a serious trump card against Fox's newly found success and reboot of the X franchise and WB/DC's rumored DCCU plan.

Because, sooner or later (and now for Sony), Spider-Man being successful because he's Spider-Man, and the MCU films being successful just because its the MCU, won't last forever.

According to Kevin Feige, that idea of the skyline was very briefly considered .
It was never really going to happen.