The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 5

[Krystal]

How can we get the Ant-Man mojo to switch to FFINO?

If any movie deserved to be cancelled this was it.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

We agree on this. I have no problems with Fox keeping Xmen because I don't know how they can possibly exist in a world with the Avengers. But F4 belong with Disney and MS. Here's hoping something turns in Marvel's favor.
I will say that if A2 makes over $1B WW, then wouldn't that get Disney in the black with Marvel studios? IM3 made $1.5B and Avengers the same..............yeah you are right. Thor 2 "only" made $600M and Cap 2 "only" made $700M WW so that's only $3.2 B WW. A2 should get them over the hump. I'm not counting Guardians of the Galaxy because I don't know how that's going to turn out but my hope is at least $500M WW.

Yeah I'd say after Age of Ultron (if the film does well which seems almost certain) they're in the black for sure. If FFINO performs well enough for Fox though they'll be even less likely to deal. As if they ever were going to deal. All indicators are that they will NOT deal.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

How can we get the Ant-Man mojo to switch to FFINO?

If any movie deserved to be cancelled this was it.

I know right? Months after Fox is looking to replace Trank it's Edgar Wright that ends up walking. Unbelievable.

 

[Spiderine]

With all the merchandising and DVD/TV/Streaming sales wouldn't Disney have already made their money back?

 

[Docker2.0]

Yeah I'd say after Age of Ultron (if the film does well which seems almost certain) they're in the black for sure. If FFINO performs well enough for Fox though they'll be even less likely to deal. As if they ever were going to deal. All indicators are that they will NOT deal.

No way in hell that movie does well. The original F4 movies at least tried to be faithful and it couldn't crack a certain point and this sure as heck won't. Again, I really don't think this thing is getting made, nor are there any intentions of this thing being made. F4 just isn't a franchise that Fox can get. It's one of those franchises that is taylor made for Disney.

 

[Docker2.0]

With all the merchandising and DVD/TV/Streaming sales wouldn't Disney have already made their money back?

That's what I was thinking as well. TV deals, toys, DVD's.............you'd think by now they would have broken even and maybe they have. But I think what Ragnarok is saying movie wise, they have not. There's a reason why Agents of SHIELD have been kept on tv as long as they have when the ratings were falling.

 

[Mr.M]

Well I can't be the only one thinking this but why are you even posting here then?

because I'm keeping hope alive????

 

[Orba]

We talk about leverage here a lot and that Fox have the X-Men and FF rights, but I think there is still at least one other Marvel film right that Fox have, Deadpool. Now if you go in the X-Men forum they will tell you till they are blue in the face that Deadpool is part of the X-Men film rights, but the evidence would seem to indicate otherwise. For a start Deadpool was not a part of the original deal Marvel made with Fox, back in 2003 the film rights were held by New Line who were trying to get a film made with it but it ultimately fell through. What happened next we don't know except that the rights eventually ended up at Fox who used him in their X-Men Origins: Wolverine film in 2009.

The question then is how did that happen, one idea would be that the character's rights were absorbed into the X-Men rights but I don't see Marvel letting that happen, their deal with Fox for the X-Men rights was a mess and they let themselves get screwed so I don't think they would want to let other seperate character rights get added to it without some sort of renegotiation. And that is not something Fox would do. So the character is still likely to be under a seperate rights deal, which might be why last year Hitfix mentioned that there was a rumour that is Fox didn't use the character the rights would revert.

So that would mean that Deadpool's appearance in XMO:W was a crossover, but what sort of arrangement was made to allow that to happen. If the deal was open ended and let Fox crossover whenever they want then we can expect to have Deadpool thrown into X-Men Apocalypse in order to renew that rights and that will be that. However if the deal was just for the film then it does give Marvel a bit of leverage.

If it was a deal just for the one film then Fox have till about May 2016 to get a Deadpool film made, but with no crossover deal to let Fox tie the film into their X-Men films. For a few years Fox has said they are going to make a Deadpool film, they have a script, director, lead actor, they even say they can make it for $50million, but Fox still haven't got ahead with it. I think the problem is with no X-Men link they are stuck with an R rated film adaption of a comic book character, and that is not a type of film that had much (actually any) success. Comic book characters that have had R rated film adaptions are Judge Dredd, Spawn and Punisher, none of whom were successful, infact most can be called complete flops. So this leaves Fox with a problem, to hold onto the character they would have to make a film that stands a very high chance of flopping (the last Punisher film made $10 million and cost $35million). So how much do they want to hold onto the character?

If Fox could throw him into an X-Men film then they wouldn't have to worry. So that gives Marvel something else they can use in any negotiations, nothing big but every little thing helps.

(btw sorry this ended up so long )

 

[wobbly]

Hard to say what the deal is with Deadpool. If he is a separate contract then his inclusion in Origins (talk about INO) must have been something Marvel approved. That was before the Disney buyout where Marvel were still putting out merch for Fox films so I think they were getting on somewhat better with Fox then.

Since Disney took over though Fox have made it clear they aint letting anything go back if they can help it. They got caught out with Daredevil (Director bailing on them late on) and that's the only reason they had to let him go. The new Disney/Marvel regime offered them an extension for DD in return for Galactus & the Surfer, but they refused, so when it comes to negotiations, it doesn't look like Fox are willing to play ball.

I think the mouse and the Fox just don't like each other, so it's hard to see them getting round a table and agreeing on a deal without one side getting far more out of it than the other is willing to concede.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I think the mouse and the Fox just don't like each other, so it's hard to see them getting round a table and agreeing on a deal without one side getting far more out of it than the other is willing to concede.

I think this is a big part of the problem. Rational, logical deals that could benefit both sides may happen with Sony, but it seems like they're just not going to happen between these two. There seems to be an 'all or nothing' attitude on both sides of the table, and they dislike each other too much to cooperate and work together toward a larger goal.

 

[wobbly]

I think this is a big part of the problem. Rational, logical deals that could benefit both sides may happen with Sony, but it seems like they're just not going to happen between these two. There seems to be an 'all or nothing' attitude on both sides of the table, and they dislike each other too much to cooperate and work together toward a larger goal.

I wonder if the potential Star Wars conflict has been a factor is all this as well?

Now Fox's release rights for all but one of the previous 6 films expires in 2020 (after that Disney take over), however they keep the distribution rights for one 'in perpetuity'. The true first of the lot (Episode IV: A new Hope).

That's gonna be a tricky issue for future collector box sets and so on when the new films are done.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I wonder if the potential Star Wars conflict has been a factor is all this as well?

Now Fox's release rights for all but one of the previous 6 films expires in 2020 (after that Disney take over), however they keep the distribution rights for one 'in perpetuity'. The true first of the lot (Episode IV: A new Hope).

That's gonna be a tricky issue for future collector box sets and so on when the new films are done.

Interesting. Fox certainly has a lot of things Marvel wants, and the key thing Marvel has that Fox wants is X-Men merchandising. I think the world would be a neater, better place if Fox controlled the X-Men merchandising and Disney had FF and Star Wars IV. Hopefully they can find some common sense way to make things closer to right.

 

[Orba]

I wonder if the potential Star Wars conflict has been a factor is all this as well?

Now Fox's release rights for all but one of the previous 6 films expires in 2020 (after that Disney take over), however they keep the distribution rights for one 'in perpetuity'. The true first of the lot (Episode IV: A new Hope).

That's gonna be a tricky issue for future collector box sets and so on when the new films are done.

I definitely think that could be a big factor, I'm sure Disney cares a lot more about those Star Wars rights than a lot of the Marvel stuff.

But the whole Deadpool thing does give a chance to see if Fox really does have a "cold dead hands" approach to giving up the Marvel film rights. Without the option to tie the character to the X-Men franchise then a Deadpool film has a very high potential to flop, but if they don't make it the rights will revert. So if they plan to hold onto the rights at all costs then they will have to go ahead anyway. Seeing the choice they make could be interesting.

 

[Dark Raven]

This thread should be retitled for the struggling law student: "Keep hope alive that you can finally understand IP rights."

 

[Tymminator]

Trank is now set to film a Star Wars stand-alone film...interesting.

 

[Orba]

Well it looks like Trank has been picked to do one of the Star Wars stand alone films, so who wants to be on if Disney will pick a shooting date that will interfere with him doing FF2? t:

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

That's what I was thinking as well. TV deals, toys, DVD's.............you'd think by now they would have broken even and maybe they have. But I think what Ragnarok is saying movie wise, they have not. There's a reason why Agents of SHIELD have been kept on tv as long as they have when the ratings were falling.

because it's a f***ing great show, that's why!

 

[Xeno-noesis]

The news about Trank and Star Wars is very, very interesting.

Are Disney and Fox on much better terms than we thought?

Does this signify/reveal negotiations between the two companies?

 

[Donut]

Or Disney hired Josh Trank as a way to piss off fox

 

[Dark Raven]

I suppose this will be a found footage Star Wars film? Gritty and realistic?

I swear, Josh Trank and Edgar Wright have ended up becoming complete caricatures with their antics recently.

Trank has become the epitome of a director who only knows how to make one film, and keeps remaking it cheaply with his bosom buddy Michael B Jordan while slapping on another title over the movie, whether it has anything to do with it at all. And Wright is the epitome of a director who takes decades to write a script/ make a movie with tons of procrastination in between.

 

[Xeno-noesis]

Or Disney hired Josh Trank as a way to piss off fox

That was my next question, word for word. Perhaps negotiations did fail and they are trying to undermine production on UFF. Maybe forcing Trank to choose, which really isn't all that difficult between the properties...

 

[wobbly]

Curiouser & curiouser...

One minute it's like Ike wants to storm into the Fox offices with a big-ass gun and yell, "Say hallo to my liddle frend!!"

Next they are signing up the same director of the film that has (allegedly) incited Perlmurters ire?

Hollywood, lol

 

[The.Brotherhood]

Trank will pull a edgar wright / drew goddard on fox for a Star Wars spin-off -OR- maybe this is one tactic of the mouse to cause more trouble to the FFINO.

The mouse will fox FOX.

 

[Doc Ock]

I had a brief moment of joy/despair as a Marvel/Star Wars fan with the Trank announcement today, I thought this was something done by Disney to keep the FF film from being made....guess not.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Curiouser & curiouser...

One minute it's like Ike wants to storm into the Fox offices with a big-ass gun and yell, "Say hallo to my liddle frend!!"

Next they are signing up the same director of the film that has (allegedly) incited Perlmurters ire?

Hollywood, lol

It does seem a bizarre coincidence - particularly in light of the Fox/Disney/Star Wars connection you just pointed out earlier, but I'm sure the real battles are taking place way above Trank's pay-grade and have little or nothing to do with him specifically.

I just find it odd that Disney would hire such an inexperienced director for such a high-profile film. If FF ends up being great, sure, I could see it then, but it seems like a big gamble at this moment.

My first, completely irrational knee-jerk reaction was: "Oooh, maybe this is part of deal in which FF will be discontinued but Trank will be offered another, better job as a consolation." but I'm sure that's just wishful thinking.

In the real world, it means Trank won't be directing a hypothetical FF2.