The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 5

[harryoscop]

Everthing i've seen so far from this movie is weird i have to admit, it's almost like a whole conspiracy thing going on with Fox and Marvel,

 

[Donut]

This is gonna be a movie on Lifetime one day. With Kate Mara as the main character. Its gonna be about the struggle of her making this movie

 

[justanotherguy]

In case no actually scrolled through the google maps correctly this is probably betterhttps://www.google.com/maps/@30.447691,-91.1882,3a,75y,350.24h,73.75t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1siiMUY1FaRKVDoXsQBg-ioA!2e0

 

[Kelly]

That doesn't scream New York to me, but I guess close up shots within different areas will come across on screen as New York....who knows.

 

[Dark Raven]

That doesn't scream New York to me, but I guess close up shots within different areas will come across on screen as New York....who knows.

In the 80s Fame TV series that was filmed somewhere in LA but meant to be NYC. They were lacking tall buildings.

 

[fixxxer]

I'd like to pin a ****ing medal on this justanotherguy fella for going above and beyond the call of duty. Man, if I'm ever anywhere close to your neck of the woods, I'm coming to your bar and buying everybody a round. "This movie going to suck!" Indeed!

This ****ing hostage crisis of a movie is actually happening and to hell with it. This is the best thread in the Hype!

And yes, my never-to-be-realized dream of seeing the Avengers and the real Fantastic Four take on Galactus and his heralds in Avengers 4 or 5 have clearly turned my mind to jello.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'd like to pin a ****ing medal on this justanotherguy fella for going above and beyond the call of duty. Man, if I'm ever anywhere close to your neck of the woods, I'm coming to your bar and buying everybody a round. "This movie going to suck!" Indeed!

This ****ing hostage crisis of a movie is actually happening and to hell with it. This is the best thread in the Hype!

And yes, my never-to-be-realized dream of seeing the Avengers and the real Fantastic Four take on Galactus and his heralds in Avengers 4 or 5 have clearly turned my mind to jello.

You sound perfectly lucid to me.

I'm trying to turn my mind to jello so that I can find some way to look forward to this.

 

[kguillou]

I guess this is actually happening then. I guess FOX just isn't gonna say a word about it until a month before the film releases. This whole production is just strange, man. I really don't know why FOX won;t just take a giant paycheck from Marvel and be done with it. They've still got X-men to keep the lights on.

 

[metaphysician]

Again: Fox can't *make* Marvel sign them a giant check. Marvel doesn't *want* to sign them a giant check. The only reason this is happening, nigh certain, is because Fox wants a far, far larger amount of money for the rights than Marvel would ever consider.

 

[Zarex]

I guess this is actually happening then. I guess FOX just isn't gonna say a word about it until a month before the film releases. This whole production is just strange, man. I really don't know why FOX won;t just take a giant paycheck from Marvel and be done with it. They've still got X-men to keep the lights on.

Well, we don't know for certain if the offer of a giant paycheck ever came from Marvel. As far as we know Marvel hasn't paid for any reversions, though a lot of key characters have found their way back - Daredevil, Ghost Rider, the Punisher and Blade - over the last couple of years. Marvel appears to be using the "stick" approach regarding this property - cancelling comics, removing FF characters from promotion - instead of the "carrot".

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Again: Fox can't *make* Marvel sign them a giant check. Marvel doesn't *want* to sign them a giant check. The only reason this is happening, nigh certain, is because Fox wants a far, far larger amount of money for the rights than Marvel would ever consider.

Well, we don't know for certain if the offer of a giant paycheck ever came from Marvel. As far as we know Marvel hasn't paid for any reversions, though a lot of key characters have found their way back - Daredevil, Ghost Rider, the Punisher and Blade - over the last couple of years. Marvel appears to be using the "stick" approach regarding this property - cancelling comics, removing FF characters from promotion - instead of the "carrot".

There has to be a number on both sides. For example, if Fox would offer the rights for $1, Marvel would oviously take it, and converseley, if Marvel offered a billion dollars, Fox would take it.

Realistically, it's probably something like Marvel wouldn't consider anything over $100 million and Fox wants something in the $200 to $300 million range.

The situation is also probably clouded by uncertainty, dislike/distrust and spitefulness on both sides.

A year ago, it's quite possible Fox said they'd give the rights up for $100 million, and while Marvel might gladly pay that amount rather than see Fox push through with a movie, Marvel might have said: "They're not going to make this movie. We'll just wait them out and get the rights for free."

And Fox may have pushed through with a movie they weren't thrilled about partly because they were so pissed at Marvel and would rather throw together a film than let Marvel get them back for free.

 

[Zarex]

There has to be a number on both sides. For example, if Fox would offer the rights for $1, Marvel would oviously take it, and converseley, if Marvel offered a billion dollars, Fox would take it.

Realistically, it's probably something like Marvel wouldn't consider anything over $100 million and Fox wants something in the $200 to $300 million range.

The situation is also probably clouded by uncertainty, dislike/distrust and spitefulness on both sides.

A year ago, it's quite possible Fox said they'd give the rights up for $100 million, and while Marvel might gladly pay that amount rather than see Fox push through with a movie, Marvel might have said: "They're not going to make this movie. We'll just wait them out and get the rights for free."

And Fox may have pushed through with a movie they weren't thrilled about partly because they were so pissed at Marvel and would rather throw together a film than let Marvel get them back for free.

A key problem is that while the FF character family has a minimal value to FOX - even the most supportive X-Men movie fan should realize that this FFINO reboot will struggle to achieve even a modest profit - the characters hold a great deal of value to Marvel. Marvel may be willing to fork over what the FF is worth to FOX - say $100 million or less - while FOX may be holding out for what the characters are worth to Marvel, which I would guestimate at half a billion or more.

Another concern for FOX may be that FF reversion will strengthen Marvel's already dominant position in the superhero movie market, with FOX (and Sony) finding themselves on the outside looking in as Marvel and WB ramp up production. And if Marvel and Sony end up collaborating on future projects as many have speculated, FOX could find themselves alone on an island trying to keep a very mature franchise afloat.

 

[Donut]

Another concern for FOX may be that FF reversion will strengthen Marvel's already dominant position in the superhero movie market, with FOX (and Sony) finding themselves on the outside looking in as Marvel and WB ramp up production. And if Marvel and Sony end up collaborating on future projects as many have speculated, FOX could find themselves alone on an island trying to keep a very mature franchise afloat.

You do realize that if fox could they would not bother with making any Fantastic Four movies. fox is hardly on the outside looking in at least in terms of the Fantastic Four

 

[kguillou]

So, this really is a game of chicken and neither party is calling the other's bluff. I hate to say it though but if I was Marvel I would REALLY REALLY try to do everything I could to get FF back. Even if it means shelling out more money to FOX. After they're done with Thanos they're gonna need some serious A-list villains and characters to continue the franchise and getting the FF PLUS Doom, the Silver Surfer, the Skrulls and Galactus in the MCU would be perfect for the future phases after Thanos.

 

[Zarex]

You do realize that if fox could they would not bother with making any Fantastic Four movies. fox is hardly on the outside looking in at least in terms of the Fantastic Four

It's clear to me that FOX would prefer not to invest money in an FF franchise. But FOX doesn't want Marvel investing in an FF franchise, either.

 

[Donut]

It's clear to me that FOX would prefer not to invest money in an FF franchise. But FOX doesn't want Marvel investing in an FF franchise, either.

& fox will be the one that looooooses out in the end when their movies bomb

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I hate to say it though but if I was Marvel I would REALLY REALLY try to do everything I could to get FF back. Even if it means shelling out more money to FOX.

This probably isn't all that different from most companies in which the engineers and quality people want a lot more than the accountants are ever willing to give them.

In this case, the people in the creative departments are probably begging to get the rights back, and the accountants are saying: "Why should we pay all that money? You've got thousands of characters you haven't touched yet. You're supposed to be creative so figure out how to make what you have work."

 

[Dark Raven]

It's clear to me that FOX would prefer not to invest money in an FF franchise. But FOX doesn't want Marvel investing in an FF franchise, either.

Classic Dog in the manger, or in this case, Fox in the manger scenario.

 

[Zarex]

This probably isn't all that different from most companies in which the engineers and quality people want a lot more than the accountants are ever willing to give them.

In this case, the people in the creative departments are probably begging to get the rights back, and the accountants are saying: "Why should we pay all that money? You've got thousands of characters you haven't touched yet. You're supposed to be creative so figure out how to make what you have work."

While many comic fans want ALL of the classic characters interacting in the MCU, it only takes a few seconds perusing the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe to find reasonable substitutes. And the upcoming GOTG movie is a classic example - if the FF rights had reverted back in 2009, that would be most likely the MCU's space film. Replace the FF with GOTG, Galactus with the Celestials, the Silver Surfer with Adam Warlock, Dr. Doom with Kang. It stinks for longtime fans, but you can see why a pricey buyout is difficult to justify financially.

 

[kguillou]

This probably isn't all that different from most companies in which the engineers and quality people want a lot more than the accountants are ever willing to give them.

In this case, the people in the creative departments are probably begging to get the rights back, and the accountants are saying: "Why should we pay all that money? You've got thousands of characters you haven't touched yet. You're supposed to be creative so figure out how to make what you have work."

^THIS. You're probably exactly right, Willie Lumpkin. I'm SURE Feige is just itching to get FF back with Doom and Surfer and Galactus. I mean you could just imagine the post credits sequence of Avengers 3: we see a mysterious hooded figure walking through the leftover ruins of a gigantic battle and he discovers the infinity gauntlet. The camera pans up and we see Doom's menacing metallic mask and he cackles in content as he puts on the gauntlet. That would make the fans go NUTS!!! And I'm sure Feige and the heads at Marvel have already considered a scenario like this. I think they're gonna find a way, some way, to get em back.

 

[wobbly]

Disney shelling out a fortune for the FF doesn't make fiscal sense, especially when they can just wait it out: Unless FFINO is a success Fox aint gonna get much more (if any) mileage out of this franchise. They don't have the good will & fan base the X-Men carry to help them past any dud FF films here. This one will either do well enough to secure the FF with Fox for as many sequels as they can get away with (as X-Men are) or it will be an effectively done & dusted dead franchise for them.

I do not think even Fox would be silly enough to try another reboot in 7/8 years time. Hold onto the rights until the next deadline just to spite Marvel? Possibly, but if this one tanks then I just can't see them trying another film again.

 

[Spiderine]

Disney will sit back and let Fox tighten their own noose. They aren't paying jack and I don't blame them. They have their cosmic property and will mingle the GOTG with the Avengers. That will make them viable. And Marvel doesn't have to worry about the stinky baggage of the Fox films like they did with Hulk who still had that Universal Ang Lee stinch. By the time Marvel decides to use Galactus/Surfer it will be time for the rights to revert again. In the mean time they got plenty of characters to use. I am willing to bet this is what Disney is thinking.

 

[Mr.M]

If this is the direction Marvel has decided to go, that Pixar movie better be damn good and bury this thing at the box office. Along with Jurassic World. Fox knows what they are up against hence it makes no sense to invest heavily in this franchise as long as the competition does what it is supposed to do.

I really think Fox picked up steam with BvS delays and Ant-Man losing Wright. This provided the glimmering window that Fox desperately sought. Obviously it will be a miracle if this thing is a hit at the box office, but with the overlapping competition hurting as it has, FF still appears to have some prayer of turning in dividends. That's what probably allowed Fox to give this a shot.

If I am Marvel, I'd just look to build my TV portfolio after Avengers 3. I really don't see them having a mega profitable franchise after that, and Avengers will need a break. If they want to recast and reboot, the result will undoubtedly be another ASM type franchise at best. Just go with TV and low budget until you can angle the FF and Spidey back into the MCU, because I just don't see it with these other properties. But maybe GotG is a runaway hit. I doubt it.

 

[Joe Rockhead]

If this is the direction Marvel has decided to go, that Pixar movie better be damn good and bury this thing at the box office. Along with Jurassic World. Fox knows what they are up against hence it makes no sense to invest heavily in this franchise as long as the competition does what it is supposed to do.

I really think Fox picked up steam with BvS delays and Ant-Man losing Wright. This provided the glimmering window that Fox desperately sought. Obviously it will be a miracle if this thing is a hit at the box office, but with the overlapping competition hurting as it has, FF still appears to have some prayer of turning in dividends. That's what probably allowed Fox to give this a shot.

If I am Marvel, I'd just look to build my TV portfolio after Avengers 3. I really don't see them having a mega profitable franchise after that, and Avengers will need a break. If they want to recast and reboot, the result will undoubtedly be another ASM type franchise at best. Just go with TV and low budget until you can angle the FF and Spidey back into the MCU, because I just don't see it with these other properties. But maybe GotG is a runaway hit. I doubt it.

If the rest of Marvel Studios productions introduce enough villains, I could see the next big franchise revolve around either the Runaways or Avengers Academy. I think that would bring in the 18 - 45 year old demographic big enough to start the next wave.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I think Runaways could be huge if done right.

The biggest problem would be an aging cast between films. Especially for Molly Hayes.