The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 7

[Ragnaroknroll]

Yeah and the other 6 X-films didn't. Why is that?

People love comparing X-men to Ironman, Thor and Cap as if they where ever on equal ground in the first place. By right X-men and Wolverine solo films SHOULD be better than what the MCU has released. But it wasn't until Marvel stepped up their game that Fox, Sony and WB felt compelled to finally do it themselves.

But people jumping back on the Singer/Fox bandwagon doesn't mean the MCU couldn't dish out a far better X-men franchise.

If nothing else I'm sure the look and continuity of X-men would be better.

Although I've resigned myself to Fox keeping the X-Men, I agree with this statement completely. Marvel has built their empire out of the comic book castoffs that nobody wanted. Spider-Man and X-Men are Marvel's premier properties. We may very well never know what kind of film they could have given us based on these characters. But there's absolutely no reason to think they couldn't have done a better job.

 

[I Am The Knight]

You asked for evidence on how DOFP didn't add fans to the genre. I pointed out how DOFP opened and grossed less than TLS domestically despite 3D and 8 years of inflation, suggesting that not only did DOFP not grow it's audience, it actually decreased. The significant increase internationally doesn't mean much, as practically almost every half-decent blockbuster is exploding over there.

Sigh.

How is that "evidence" that DOFP didn't add any fans to the genre?? How do you know what people coming out of DOFP think of the genre now, will they see other CBM's, etc? How do you know what kind of people saw it? What if it had the effect of making some people give up on the genre because to them, DOFP sucked, and probably all other CBM's suck too?

This whole conversation started in response to a guy who was saying that Marvel had grown it's audience by offering "tonnally different" films or something, while DOFP hadn't added any new fans to the genre. Those two statements don't exactly align, because the genre goes beyond the MCU and the X-Men franchise, so I singled out the DOFP part, because it seemed ridiculous to me how someone could declare something like that, maybe trying to imply that the MCU by itself was bringing more people to the genre than a Fox effort (oh not Fox, please don't!), which seemed dubious since, again, DOFP has outgrossed most MCU films, altough the box office itself can't be counted as actual evidence, either.

Wheter the X-Men franchise has grown or declined in attendance is not relevant to me.

 

[C. Lee]

Hmmm....could have sworn this was the FANTASTIC FOUR forum.....

 

[Spiderdevil]

I wouldn't call Thor 2 great but if it's on of the weakest links in the MCU, it's still no were near as low as the bar set with Elektra, Origins or FF2 to name a few.

Now when people bring up how great The Wolverine was it just feels like "The Emperor has no clothes". Fox pretty much did to Silver Samurai and Viper what they did to Deadpool in Origins. And it only turned a profit because Fox got cold feet and went cheaper than usual.

I say all this because I don't want Fox doing to F4 what they'll doing to X-men for the next 10-20 years. So if there's a slim chance of FF reverting back sooner rather than later then "Keep hope alive!"

Its not like Marvel does justice to all their villains, they are known to have weak villains and the likes of Mandarin and Whiplash(I want my burd!) were hilariously bad.I thought Silver Samurai and Viper were alright
The Wolverine made more than TIH and Captain America despite having a lower budget

Also you are not looking at the amount of backlash Marvel's X-men will receive,likes of Hugh Jackman,McAvoy and Fassbender are received so well that no matter who they recast,people will eat them up

Now if there was a way in which Marvel could continue the same series without recasting/rebooting,that I could get behind

 

[starscream22]

Its not like Marvel does justice to all their villains, they are known to have weak villains and the likes of Mandarin and Whiplash(I want my burd!) were hilariously bad.

.....You're really going tit for tat on how bad Marvel has messed up characters vs what Fox has done? Please, that's like one for every 10 or have you already forgotten what made threads like this so popular in the first place...

I thought Silver Samurai and Viper were alright

I'm not here to sway your opinion on anything but don't expect to win anyone over while co-signing Silver Samurai as a Rock'em Sock'em robot or pointlessly giving Wolverine bone claws at the end either.

The Wolverine made more than TIH and Captain America despite having a lower budget

.....Seriously?

I could honestly picture you desperately scrolling down the BoxOfficeMojo CBM list trying to find........something. Like BINGO! "The Wolverine had a better World Wide box office than Hulk and Captain America, take that!"

Except domestically.....but never mind the fact that a character line Wolverine should've been doing Ironman numbers from day one if done right but congratulations on Wolverine having higher Foreign numbers than 2 out of 10 MCU films.

Also you are not looking at the amount of backlash Marvel's X-men will receive,likes of Hugh Jackman,McAvoy and Fassbender are received so well that no matter who they recast,people will eat them up

Now if there was a way in which Marvel could continue the same series without recasting/rebooting,that I could get behind

Hugh Jackman would be on board. And even if he wasn't the whole X-men cast is easily replaceable IMO.

Just like Fantastic Four.

 

[Spiderdevil]

.....You're really going tit for tat on how bad Marvel has messed up characters vs what Fox has done? Please, that's like one for every 10 or have you already forgotten what made threads like this so popular in the first place...

Its actually more than that,the only proper villains Marvel has had has been Iron Monger,Loki,The Winter Soldier and Alexander Pierce
All of Whiplash,Hammer,Killian,Mandarin,Malekith have been bad,some of them hilariously bad
People have been disappointed with Ronan aswell

I'm not here to sway your opinion on anything but don't expect to win anyone over while co-signing Silver Samurai as a Rock'em Sock'em robot or pointlessly giving Wolverine bone claws at the end either.

Didn't they pointlessly blow the Iron Man suits at the end of IM3? A lot of people hated that
And I am going tit for tat because I don't think its fair that Fox gets criticized for some things and Marvel isn't for almost identical mistakes,and to be clear,I am a bigger MCU fan

Except domestically.....but never mind the fact that a character line Wolverine should've been doing Ironman numbers from day one if done right but congratulations on Wolverine having higher Foreign numbers than 2 out of 10 MCU films.

Okay that I agree to, Fox has been terrible in marketing these movies and Wolverine should be making Iron Man numbers

Hugh Jackman would be on board. And even if he wasn't the whole X-men cast is easily replaceable IMO.
Just like Fantastic Four.

I think its more complex than that,Fox could have the right to stop them from continuing their series, and Marvel would probably want to reboot anyway
If they can figure out a way of continuing with the same cast and timeline,I will be happy to let Marvel take control but not if they want to reboot/recast

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

For those who want to hang on to irrational hope, there is a mysterious Marvel press conference scheduled for Tuesday (presumably to announce upcoming slate and possible integration of Spidey into MCU).

I'd put the odds at about 500:1 that we'll get good news at that press conference.

Which may not sound great, but I've bought lottery and raffle tickets with poorer odds and at least imagined I might win.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Its actually more than that,the only proper villains Marvel has had has been Iron Monger,Loki,The Winter Soldier and Alexander Pierce
All of Whiplash,Hammer,Killian,Mandarin,Malekith have been bad,some of them hilariously bad
People have been disappointed with Ronan aswell


Didn't they pointlessly blow the Iron Man suits at the end of IM3? A lot of people hated that
And I am going tit for tat because I don't think its fair that Fox gets criticized for some things and Marvel isn't for almost identical mistakes,and to be clear,I am a bigger MCU fan


Okay that I agree to, Fox has been terrible in marketing these movies and Wolverine should be making Iron Man numbers


I think its more complex than that,Fox could have the right to stop them from continuing their series, and Marvel would probably want to reboot anyway
If they can figure out a way of continuing with the same cast and timeline,I will be happy to let Marvel take control but not if they want to reboot/recast

No one's saying Marvel is perfect. But they have a better track record by far. They've done more with less and have done it without relying on any one director. They've yet to have a single film that's been rated rotten. Not saying it won't happen someday- almost seems inevitable - but the fact that they've been able to maintain such a high level of quality and build such a wide audience using the castoff comic book characters that no one else wanted is astounding. And in their short existence they've given us at least 4 CBM classics. Seems like a great home for the troubled Fantastic Four franchise (hence the title of this thread).

Fox on the other hand is completely hit or miss. Until Fox can prove they can be great without Bryan Singer, fans have every right to be nervous/concerned/upset/outraged/etc. about what they are doing with the Fantastic Four. There's been no reassurance from the Fox camp that some of the more extreme detractors may have been completely off the mark in their conclusions. Two no shows in a row at the last two Comic-Cons does not inspire confidence. If anything, it just feels like Fox is hiding this film.

 

[starscream22]

For those who want to hang on to irrational hope, there is a mysterious Marvel press conference scheduled for Tuesday (presumably to announce upcoming slate and possible integration of Spidey into MCU).

I'd put the odds at about 500:1 that we'll get good news at that press conference.

Which may not sound great, but I've bought lottery and raffle tickets with poorer odds and at least imagined I might win.

Cool, this sounds more promising than arguing with people who flip flop about their support of MCU for the sake of defending the crappiness of most of Fox's Marvel characters....

If anything's coming back I'd say it's Spider-man. Don't think they'd do a press conference strictly for F4 but I wouldn't be opposed to it.

Spidey reverting back would be a huge score for Marvel but sadly I think that would make the value of the 2 remaining franchises even higher in Fox's mind, thus increasing their stranglehold on them.

I also hope that they're not just borrowing Spider-man from Sony. Doing that would only encourage both FOX and Sony to keep these franchises even if they continue to underperform.

I'll keep my fingers cross for the best case scenario though.

Keep Hope Alive!!!

 

[starscream22]

Its actually more than that,the only proper villains Marvel has had has been Iron Monger,Loki,The Winter Soldier and Alexander Pierce
All of Whiplash,Hammer,Killian,Mandarin,Malekith have been bad,some of them hilariously bad
People have been disappointed with Ronan aswell


Didn't they pointlessly blow the Iron Man suits at the end of IM3? A lot of people hated that
And I am going tit for tat because I don't think its fair that Fox gets criticized for some things and Marvel isn't for almost identical mistakes,and to be clear,I am a bigger MCU fan


Okay that I agree to, Fox has been terrible in marketing these movies and Wolverine should be making Iron Man numbers


I think its more complex than that,Fox could have the right to stop them from continuing their series, and Marvel would probably want to reboot anyway
If they can figure out a way of continuing with the same cast and timeline,I will be happy to let Marvel take control but not if they want to reboot/recast

......You do realize your word isn't law, right? Not saying mine is either but at least I try to back it up with facts...thus the ongoing success while raising the bar in the growing CBM industry.

For the record I hated IM3 but its clearly no where near the level of crap as Elektra, FF, FF2, X3 or Origins. Nor did it underperform so the tit for tat is ultimately irrelevant.... Overall the MCU is winning by a landslide PERIOD

 

[starscream22]

No one's saying Marvel is perfect. But they have a better track record by far. They've done more with less and have done it without relying on any one director. They've yet to have a single film that's been rated rotten. Not saying it won't happen someday- almost seems inevitable - but the fact that they've been able to maintain such a high level of quality and build such a wide audience using the castoff comic book characters that no one else wanted is astounding. And in their short existence they've given us at least 4 CBM classics. Seems like a great home for the troubled Fantastic Four franchise (hence the title of this thread).

Fox on the other hand is completely hit or miss. Until Fox can prove they can be great without Bryan Singer, fans have every right to be nervous/concerned/upset/outraged/etc. about what they are doing with the Fantastic Four. There's been no reassurance from the Fox camp that some of the more extreme detractors may have been completely off the mark in their conclusions. Two no shows in a row at the last two Comic-Cons does not inspire confidence. If anything, it just feels like Fox is hiding this film.

Exactly!

Deep down he already knows this.... Heck he's already admitted it. I guess pride and the love for mediocrity outweighs rationality at times.

But nobody's perfect.

 

[Orba]

Cool, this sounds more promising than arguing with people who flip flop about their support of MCU for the sake of defending the crappiness of most of Fox's Marvel characters....

If anything's coming back I'd say it's Spider-man. Don't think they'd do a press conference strictly for F4 but I wouldn't be opposed to it.

Spidey reverting back would be a huge score for Marvel but sadly I think that would make the value of the 2 remaining franchises even higher in Fox's mind, thus increasing their stranglehold on them.

I also hope that they're not just borrowing Spider-man from Sony. Doing that would only encourage both FOX and Sony to keep these franchises even if they continue to underperform.

I'll keep my fingers cross for the best case scenario though.

Keep Hope Alive!!!

I can't see Marvel being willing to just borrow the character, doing that would be far more beneficial to Sony than to Marvel. Marvel would get use of the character but Sony would get a massive boost from getting tied into the extremely successful MCU, something that would help Sony hold onto the rights longer. I really can't see Marvel going into some sort of partnership over the character without at least full creative control and a definite date on rights revision.

At least this press conference will hopefully give the full Phase 3 lineup.


BTW back a few months there was that rumor that Spider-man had reverted to Marvel started by Max Landis. Didn't he say at the time we would find out in October? This press event would be in October if something Spider-man did happen at it (not that I have my hopes up).

 

[wobbly]

For those who want to hang on to irrational hope, there is a mysterious Marvel press conference scheduled for Tuesday (presumably to announce upcoming slate and possible integration of Spidey into MCU).

I'd put the odds at about 500:1 that we'll get good news at that press conference.

Which may not sound great, but I've bought lottery and raffle tickets with poorer odds and at least imagined I might win.

I think we would have more chance of winning the lottery than anything from that conference relating to an FF rights reversion (this is me attempting very much in vain to 'talk that one in' as we say here in the UK).

I'd guess it's the upcoming slate of flicks, maybe a Hulk solo, Doctor Strange etc. Spider-Man being integrated somehow would be huge news though (not sure how the hell that would work though, least as the current status quo in the Garfield era goes).

 

[Brutalitops]

I can't see Marvel being willing to just borrow the character, doing that would be far more beneficial to Sony than to Marvel. Marvel would get use of the character but Sony would get a massive boost from getting tied into the extremely successful MCU, something that would help Sony hold onto the rights longer. I really can't see Marvel going into some sort of partnership over the character without at least full creative control and a definite date on rights revision.

At least this press conference will hopefully give the full Phase 3 lineup.


BTW back a few months there was that rumor that Spider-man had reverted to Marvel started by Max Landis. Didn't he say at the time we would find out in October? This press event would be in October if something Spider-man did happen at it (not that I have my hopes up).

He admitted he was ****ing around with people.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Maybe the secret announcement is that both the FF and Spider-Man are coming back to Marvel. It'd be like winning the lottery twice!

Just imagine: A Peter Parker/Johnny Storm team up!

 

[starscream22]

In other relative news GOTG now has $752,095,589 WW!

Marvel Studio's FTW!!!!

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

In other relative news GOTG now has $752,095,589 WW!

Marvel Studio's FTW!!!!

That's awesome. Now I can finally stop hearing MCU bashers spouting endlessly that DOFP was the highest grossing CBM of the year.

What's hysterical to me is that domestically DOFP couldn't even beat the abysmal X-Men: The Last Stand despite 8 years of inflation, 3D ticket pricing, a budget north of $200 million, every damn actor in the franchise and this desperate plan:

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/X-Me...ecome-Series-Highest-Grossing-Film-67098.html

 

[Spiderine]

That's awesome. Now I can finally stop hearing MCU bashers spouting endlessly that DOFP was the highest grossing CBM of the year.

What's hysterical to me is that domestically DOFP couldn't even beat the abysmal X-Men: The Last Stand despite 8 years of inflation, 3D ticket pricing, a budget north of $200 million, every damn actor in the franchise and this desperate plan:

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/X-Me...ecome-Series-Highest-Grossing-Film-67098.html

This still surprises me. I really expected that film to easily surpass at least 250 million domestic. GOTG was just a phenomenal hit.

 

[starscream22]

That's awesome. Now I can finally stop hearing MCU bashers spouting endlessly that DOFP was the highest grossing CBM of the year.

What's hysterical to me is that domestically DOFP couldn't even beat the abysmal X-Men: The Last Stand despite 8 years of inflation, 3D ticket pricing, a budget north of $200 million, every damn actor in the franchise and this desperate plan:

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/X-Me...ecome-Series-Highest-Grossing-Film-67098.html

Yeah, sadly people like Spiderdevil will use any edge they can get which to me is a Marvel win in itself.

As a comic book fan, I can understand liking X-men better than Avengers or Wolverine better than Cap, Thor or Ironman. But to me that doesn't make Fox's take on X-men the better film. It should, but Fox only brings the bare minimum, which to me is NOT acceptable at this stage in the game.

I do hope this press conference brings some good news next Tues. If it's news that F4 or Spidey's reverting back, I'll be the only one in the parking lot of my job going, YES!YES!YES!YES!YES!YES!YES! on the roof of my car.

Then I'll take the rest of the day off and go straight to the nearest Bar!

......Yeah, I probably won't be doing any of that though. But I'd be very happy LOL!

 

[Dasher10]

One thing that I feel crushes all hope for me is that Fox refuses to discuss Hobo Doom. That one singular image ruined any expectations I had for this film and any interview about the context for Hobo Doom would have managed to reopen my mind. Instead, I'm seeing Fox ruin the FF's greatest enemy AGAIN instead of actually righting the wrongs of the Tim Story films.

That combined with Josh Trank shutting down his Twitter and hearing nothing from Jamie Bell or Toby Kebbel just shows exactly what everyone involved in this production thinks about what they've made. They've dropped a turd on us that they don't think they can fix in the editing room and they know it. This isn't how you do a tentpole film, it's how you try to recoup your losses by slashing the marketing budget.

 

[starscream22]

One thing that I feel crushes all hope for me is that Fox refuses to discuss Hobo Doom. That one singular image ruined any expectations I had for this film and any interview about the context for Hobo Doom would have managed to reopen my mind. Instead, I'm seeing Fox ruin the FF's greatest enemy AGAIN instead of actually righting the wrongs of the Tim Story films.

That combined with Josh Trank shutting down his Twitter and hearing nothing from Jamie Bell or Toby Kebbel just shows exactly what everyone involved in this production thinks about what they've made. They've dropped a turd on us that they don't think they can fix in the editing room and they know it. This isn't how you do a tentpole film, it's how you try to recoup your losses by slashing the marketing budget.

Yeah, that's the reason I'm guessing Fox pushed back the release date. But then revealed that they're finally releasing a low budget Deadpool film so that the ongoing clusterf*** of this reboot would go unnoticed.

 

[Farren]

That combined with Josh Trank shutting down his Twitter and hearing nothing from Jamie Bell or Toby Kebbel just shows exactly what everyone involved in this production thinks about what they've made. They've dropped a turd on us that they don't think they can fix in the editing room and they know it. This isn't how you do a tentpole film, it's how you try to recoup your losses by slashing the marketing budget.

The lack of confidence in this movie from those involved is really telling imo.

 

[Nokio]

People keep talking about that one Doom pic released. It looks like Doom had just been torched by the Torched. Maybe not but it may help explain his look.

 

[Saitou Hajime]

That's awesome. Now I can finally stop hearing MCU bashers spouting endlessly that DOFP was the highest grossing CBM of the year.

Well, they got the outcome they preferred when DOFP edged out GOTG in RT, so I doubt they're losing much sleep over that.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

RT is practically irrelevant so yay for them, I guess?