The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 7

[Spiderdevil]

No one's saying Marvel is perfect. But they have a better track record by far. They've done more with less and have done it without relying on any one director. They've yet to have a single film that's been rated rotten. Not saying it won't happen someday- almost seems inevitable - but the fact that they've been able to maintain such a high level of quality and build such a wide audience using the castoff comic book characters that no one else wanted is astounding. And in their short existence they've given us at least 4 CBM classics. Seems like a great home for the troubled Fantastic Four franchise (hence the title of this thread).

Fox on the other hand is completely hit or miss. Until Fox can prove they can be great without Bryan Singer, fans have every right to be nervous/concerned/upset/outraged/etc. about what they are doing with the Fantastic Four. There's been no reassurance from the Fox camp that some of the more extreme detractors may have been completely off the mark in their conclusions. Two no shows in a row at the last two Comic-Cons does not inspire confidence. If anything, it just feels like Fox is hiding this film.

Basically you have said what I have been saying,F4 should go to Marvel while X-men should remain at Fox,or the perfect scenario would be X-men going to Marvel with the same cast and continuity but that's not gonna happen

And what's wrong with having Singer being at the heart of it all? I mean even though Marvel uses different directors,their creative team is constant(Feige,Whedon and the others,Jon F in the earlier years)

I don't see why not Fox can do something similar with Singer,Kinberg etc.Even if Singer doesn't direct after Apocalypse,he can still be a strong creative force like he was in First Class

 

[Kanon]

I guess whatever Fox did with X-Men (wich I think it's pretty nice) is irrelevant, since they are giving a whole different approach to Fantastic Four. As bad or good as anyone could think of the X-Films, it's light years away from what FF is showing us so far.

 

[Spiderdevil]

......You do realize your word isn't law, right? Not saying mine is either but at least I try to back it up with facts...thus the ongoing success while raising the bar in the growing CBM industry.

For the record I hated IM3 but its clearly no where near the level of crap as Elektra, FF, FF2, X3 or Origins. Nor did it underperform so the tit for tat is ultimately irrelevant.... Overall the MCU is winning by a landslide PERIOD

Problem is you are comparing Fox and MCU while I am comparing X-franchise vs MCU
I am bigger MCU fan and found the initial X-men movies(X1 especially) rather dull but I still admit they have had better Villains.
Magneto is all the movies(save X3),Sebastian Shaw and even scientists likes Stryker and Trask have done their job pretty well

 

[Spiderdevil]

Yeah, sadly people like Spiderdevil will use any edge they can get which to me is a Marvel win in itself.

As a comic book fan, I can understand liking X-men better than Avengers or Wolverine better than Cap, Thor or Ironman. But to me that doesn't make Fox's take on X-men the better film. It should, but Fox only brings the bare minimum, which to me is NOT acceptable at this stage in the game.

Firstly,I am an MCU fan and was rooting for GoTG to beat DoFP,you can check the box office thread in the GoTG forums

Secondly,you can check the forums of TASM2,before DoFP came out I went on and on about how Singer is destroying the X-franchise with his obsession to integrate both the time-lines instead of making a simple sequel to First Class,but I am man enough to admit that he did a great job and the movie was excellent

I don't they are giving us the minimum,they are doing more than that,just look at how terrible TASM2 and MOS were,I don't know how can you call a movie with a 93% reception as bare minimum,I am a Spider-man fan first and foremost and would kill for a Spidey movie as good
Will MCU do a better job with X-men? Probably but not better than a whole lot
Am I willing to undergo all the casting changes,fan backlash,repetitions just for a slightly better X-men with MCU? No.
But even they can work out a scenario in which X-men goes to Marvel and they continue the same continuity,it would be perfect!

 

[Danalys]

i'm not sure that fassbender mcavoy lawrence or jackman will do many more x-men films so they'll need recasting either way. they got young cyclops, pheonix and storm to cast so they could concentrate on them and beast.

i really would like an original five film at some time but the current film continuity makes that impossible.

 

[starscream22]

People keep talking about that one Doom pic released. It looks like Doom had just been torched by the Torched. Maybe not but it may help explain his look.

...........So this Doom's cloak is flame ******ant but the rest is made of Jiffy Pop tech?

 

[wobbly]

Problem is you are comparing Fox and MCU while I am comparing X-franchise vs MCU
I am bigger MCU fan and found the initial X-men movies(X1 especially) rather dull but I still admit they have had better Villains.
Magneto is all the movies(save X3),Sebastian Shaw and even scientists likes Stryker and Trask have done their job pretty well

That's been the only thing I've disliked with the X films: Magneto ends up being either the main antagonistic or plays a big 'turnabout' role in the finale battles. The only X-films he hasn't been a major player in was the Wolverine solos. He is a great villain, played great by both Mackellan and Fassbender, but definitely over-used (imo). I'd say the same of Wolverine too tbh. I know he is the main draw for Fox so they are gonna use him as much as they can, but it has come at the cost of developing other important characters from the X-Men mythos (Cyclops in particular has suffered badly).

Anyways, if everyone did the same we'd have every FF film with Doom as a main player (and Fox did follow that model last time round for FF) or every Spider-Man with the Green Goblin and so on. Can't say I'd want that.

Marvel so far have re-used fan favourite Loki in both Thor flicks and the Avengers, but they have changed up the main bad guys in the others (maybe not as well some would like, but they have looked beyond that 'one' big bad being there all the time).

Btw, I don't mind Fox keeping the X-Men at all. Whatever my gripe on Magneto or Wolverine being over used they have made the post origins films good ones, and Apocalypse should be taking over the heavy lifting from mags for once in the next one.

The FF though (at least a version I recognise) would slot into the MCU so easy it's a damn shame it's not gonna happen for the foreseeable future. They may have dropped the ball with the Mandarin (although the real one was revealed to still be out there after the fact in the Trevor short they did), but Doom I think is one they would do right.

 

[starscream22]

RT is practically irrelevant so yay for them, I guess?

I don't know...

To be fair people do tend to use it when it's convenient then quickly dismiss it when it's not. I will say that RT gets it right most of the time but it shouldn't be used to make life choices.

MOS for me was far better than it's RT score while ASM2's rotten percentage was spot on.

And since studios wont hesitate to use good reviews to their advantage (even the 2 or 3 that Bay4ners got were used in marketing) I wouldn't rule RT out completely as being irrelevant.

 

[starscream22]

Problem is you are comparing Fox and MCU while I am comparing X-franchise vs MCU

For the sake of this discussion having any relevance to this particular thread you may wanna change that way of thinking.

I prefer the bigger picture.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Problem is you are comparing Fox and MCU while I am comparing X-franchise vs MCU

For the sake of this discussion having any relevance to this particular thread you may wanna change that way of thinking.

I prefer the bigger picture.

Yeah, this is a Fantastic Four forum. How is a discussion of X-franchise vs MCU relevant when FF isn't in either.

 

[Dark Raven]

Problem is you are comparing Fox and MCU while I am comparing X-franchise vs MCU

Problem is your comparison is the problem.

 

[Dasher10]

Does anyone expect this film to do to Michael B. Jordan what the previous series did to Michael Chicklis? Both were known for starring on gritty crime series (The Wire and The Shield) and the Tim Story films killed a great actor's chance at becoming a Hollywood A-lister. Both were also known for being the only member of the cast to maintain enthusiasm for the product they were promoting.

 

[fixxxer]

Yea, from everything we've been hearing, FFINO could end up giving the Tim Story films a run for their money on that front. Thank Jeebus our man Evans came out unscathed!

Just as an aside... to call Michael B. Jordan a "star" of The Wire is a bit of a reach. There are probably about 50 actors on the Wire with a more substantial role than him. God, I miss that show so BLEEPing much.

*Thinks of Dukie's character arc and weeps uncontrollably. Why David Simon? Why?*

 

[Kelly]

Does anyone expect this film to do to Michael B. Jordan what the previous series did to Michael Chicklis? Both were known for starring on gritty crime series (The Wire and The Shield) and the Tim Story films killed a great actor's chance at becoming a Hollywood A-lister. Both were also known for being the only member of the cast to maintain enthusiasm for the product they were promoting.

Michael Chiklis DID NOT maintain enthusiasm. All he did during the commentary on the first film was ***** about how uncomfortable he was the entire shoot. As far as the 2nd movie, he did close to zilch promotion for it. Jessica Alba did the lionshare pretty much triple what the others did and remained positive the little that she talked about it until a recent interview.

As far as Michael B. Jordan he is far more recognized from "Friday Night Lights" than he is "The Wire", as far as hurting him? I would see it hurting Mara far more than anyone else.

 

[justanotherguy]

I see it hurting Bell the most. He has his show, and that's about it. He might be the most talented cast member, but certainly not the hottest career.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I would see it hurting Mara far more than anyone else.

I'd tend to agree. After House of Cards, she probably has the highest profile. MBJ was seen by a lot of people in The Wire, but now people probably don't recognize him until someone says: "Hey, is that the guy who played Wallace on the Wire? . . . oh yeah. I think that's him. Look, little Wallace is all growed up."

But I would also tend to think that no matter how disappointing this film may be, I don't think it will be a 'career killer' in the way the Story films were. Story's directing forced actors into unnatural, uncomfortable situations and made them look like worse actors than they are. Trank's 'grounded and gritty' approach may not be appropriate for the FF, but it likely will give the actors an environment in which they can act naturally, and that will make them look like good actors.

And the Story films certainly didn't hurt Chris Evan's career - but I think that's because he grabbed the role by the throat and made something out of nothing. A lesser actor might not have been able to recover.

Ioan Gruffudd has a series now. Which, arguably, could be a step down from some of the roles he had pre-FF, but a series provides good, steady work (and his role in Horrible Bosses was HILARIOUS I'm hoping they'll bring him back for the sequel).

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I see it hurting Bell the most. He has his show, and that's about it. He might be the most talented cast member, but certainly not the hottest career.

I think if he (and the artists) do a good job on the CGI, he could build on that. Andy Serkis can't do it all.

 

[Dark Raven]

I'd tend to agree. After House of Cards, she probably has the highest profile. MBJ was seen by a lot of people in The Wire, but now people probably don't recognize him until someone says: "Hey, is that the guy who played Wallace on the Wire? . . . oh yeah. I think that's him. Look, little Wallace is all growed up."

But I would also tend to think that no matter how disappointing this film may be, I don't think it will be a 'career killer' in the way the Story films were. Story's directing forced actors into unnatural, uncomfortable situations and made them look like worse actors than they are. Trank's 'grounded and gritty' approach may not be appropriate for the FF, but it likely will give the actors an environment in which they can act naturally, and that will make them look like good actors.

And the Story films certainly didn't hurt Chris Evan's career - but I think that's because he grabbed the role by the throat and made something out of nothing. A lesser actor might not have been able to recover.

Ioan Gruffudd has a series now. Which, arguably, could be a step down from some of the roles he had pre-FF, but a series provides good, steady work (and his role in Horrible Bosses was HILARIOUS I'm hoping they'll bring him back for the sequel).

I don't know if it's a step down. He wasn't exactly headlining any big movies before. He was in Hornblower, and he was also in Amazing Grace, but other than that, what else? He's mostly been a TV actor, like most of that Story cast were.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I don't know if it's a step down. He wasn't exactly headlining any big movies before. He was in Hornblower, and he was also in Amazing Grace, but other than that, what else? He's mostly been a TV actor, like most of that Story cast were.

He played Lancelot in a King Arthur (I can't remember if it was called King Arthur or something else, but it was a fairly major release - it frustrated me because the way he played Lancelot was the way he should have played Reed if the script and director would have allowed ).

But with Lancelot and Horatio H., he was playing serious roles and might have, with the right break might have become a fairly respected, serious actor . . . but after FF, he seemed to (either by choice or lack of choice) go with much lighter TV roles. His current starring role in "Forever" is probably the best thing he's had since FF, and while it's good work and he does a good job in it, the show won't win any Emmys, could very well be done after a season (my wife's a fan of the show, so we watch it every week, but it doesn't do much for me).

 

[Dark Raven]

Ioan sometimes seems more like Reed Richards in "Forever" than he did in the FF films. I think that, having a few years on him has also helped (can't say the same would be so for Miles Teller though). I think Ioan could still be respected as a fairly serious actor.

Also, I don't know if people really remember his role in King Arthur. That film isn't that remembered anyway. He was also in Titanic in a minor role, and also had a darker role in Ringer as the husband of Sarah Michelle Gellar.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Ioan sometimes seems more like Reed Richards in "Forever" than he did in the FF films. I think that, having a few years on him has also helped (can't say the same would be so for Miles Teller though). I think Ioan could still be respected as a fairly serious actor.

Also, I don't know if people really remember his role in King Arthur. That film isn't that remembered anyway. He was also in Titanic in a minor role, and also had a darker role in Ringer as the husband of Sarah Michelle Gellar.

It would be really interesting to see what a better director with a tweaked script could have done. I think the film could have looked and felt very different in the right hands and the same cast could have seemed much more impressive in the right hands.

 

[Dark Raven]

It would be really interesting to see what a better director with a tweaked script could have done. I think the film could have looked and felt very different in the right hands and the same cast could have seemed much more impressive in the right hands.

If Ioan combined his performances from Hornblower, King Arthur, Forever and Ringer, he would actually be a really good Reed Richards.

 

[Kanon]

This film won't hurt anyone's career. It will go unnoticed for almost everyone. It will be a far memory, like those commercials actors do before becoming stars

Edit: except for Trank. He is in trouble.

Ioan Gruffudd has a series now. Which, arguably, could be a step down from some of the roles he had pre-FF, but a series provides good, steady work (and his role in Horrible Bosses was HILARIOUS I'm hoping they'll bring him back for the sequel).

I thought Forever was almost certain for cancellation already (from people that love to follow tv ratings)

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

I'm really digging Forever. I hope it doesn't get cancelled.

As far as Ioan Gruffudd, I loved him as Horatio Hornblower and was really excited when I heard he was cast as Reed Richards. And then I saw the films and I was like... uh what? I blame the direction and the writing for that. He's a great actor.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Edit: except for Trank. He is in trouble.

Maybe he can smugly tweet that pic of his dogs sleeping while he's standing in the unemployment line.