The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

[Zarex]

By the time Artisan went under Marvel was fine. They were actually in a bid to acquire them at one point but were outbid.

Artisan went under in 2004, at which time Marvel was definitely on the upswing. I agree, it's unlikely that the studio "bundled" them under unfavorable existing contracts. So if we assume that Deadpool and the Surfer both came over to FOX from New Line and Artisan, respectively, around 2005, how the heck do these contracts work? I came up with a couple of possibilities:

A) Deadpool and the Surfer were "bundled" under their existing character families at FOX. (unlikely)

B) Both characters were sold in 2005 as the headliners of independent character families, requiring a solo movie to be released by FOX. If a Deadpool or Surfer film isn't released within a set period of time, the rights revert.

C) Deadpool and the Surfer were "lead" characters at their former studios, but under the 2005 agreements with FOX they are strictly "supporting" characters. FOX extended the rights by incorporating the characters into XMO:W and RR:ROTSS, and can extend the rights further by featuring them in the proposed X:Force spin-off and FF reboots.

Once we clear this up we can start working on Namor.

Edit: It could also be D) FOX had written into their X-Men and FF contracts rights of first refusal to buy the Deadpool and Surfer rights for a previously agreed upon price when their prior agreements ended.

 

[GENERAL RAAM582]

If Fox really wants to keep the rights they will make a movie similar to that 90s FF film.

 

[Zarex]

If Fox really wants to keep the rights they will make a movie similar to that 90s FF film.

The studio may have been able to get away with that before the buy out, but Disney would file an injuction to prevent such shoddy treatment of their IP.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Artisan went under in 2004, at which time Marvel was definitely on the upswing. I agree, it's unlikely that the studio "bundled" them under unfavorable existing contracts. So if we assume that Deadpool and the Surfer both came over to FOX from New Line and Artisan, respectively, around 2005, how the heck do these contracts work? I came up with a couple of possibilities:

A) Deadpool and the Surfer were "bundled" under their existing character families at FOX. (unlikely)

B) Both characters were sold in 2005 as the headliners of independent character families, requiring a solo movie to be released by FOX. If a Deadpool or Surfer film isn't released within a set period of time, the rights revert.

C) Deadpool and the Surfer were "lead" characters at their former studios, but under the 2005 agreements with FOX they are strictly "supporting" characters. FOX extended the rights by incorporating the characters into XMO:W and RR:ROTSS, and can extend the rights further by featuring them in the proposed X:Force spin-off and FF reboots.

Once we clear this up we can start working on Namor.

I can't say what the details are or if this is even 100% accurate, but I remember a Fox rep several years ago basically saying that if they made a Surfer film, that would extend the FF rights and vice versa.

If that's correct, I'm wondering about the wording of the contract. If a Surfer film would extend the FF rights, is it possible that a Torch appearance in an X-Men film (for example) would also extend the rights? That's a scary possibility. I hope Marvel has wording to prevent something like that.

 

[Dr Tactics]

I can't say what the details are or if this is even 100% accurate, but I remember a Fox rep several years ago basically saying that if they made a Surfer film, that would extend the FF rights and vice versa.

If that's correct, I'm wondering about the wording of the contract. If a Surfer film would extend the FF rights, is it possible that a Torch appearance in an X-Men film (for example) would also extend the rights? That's a scary possibility. I hope Marvel has wording to prevent something like that.

I doubt it only if only that can it could be challenged if appearing in a separate property not related to the FF and studios usually don't like to pay lawyers. I don't see them being that it too gray of a area.. Studios do things that they know legally that they can do ala the Quicksilver issue

 

[Mr. Dent]

Artisan went under in 2004, at which time Marvel was definitely on the upswing. I agree, it's unlikely that the studio "bundled" them under unfavorable existing contracts. So if we assume that Deadpool and the Surfer both came over to FOX from New Line and Artisan, respectively, around 2005, how the heck do these contracts work? I came up with a couple of possibilities:

A) Deadpool and the Surfer were "bundled" under their existing character families at FOX. (unlikely)

B) Both characters were sold in 2005 as the headliners of independent character families, requiring a solo movie to be released by FOX. If a Deadpool or Surfer film isn't released within a set period of time, the rights revert.

C) Deadpool and the Surfer were "lead" characters at their former studios, but under the 2005 agreements with FOX they are strictly "supporting" characters. FOX extended the rights by incorporating the characters into XMO:W and RR:ROTSS, and can extend the rights further by featuring them in the proposed X:Force spin-off and FF reboots.

Once we clear this up we can start working on Namor.

Edit: It could also be D) FOX had written into their X-Men and FF contracts rights of first refusal to buy the Deadpool and Surfer rights for a previously agreed upon price when their prior agreements ended.

I think it's something like C except they don't have a stipulation on whether they can headline their own movie or be supporting characters, since they were planning spin-offs for both. I think they have to use them in their films by a certain time or they'll revert. I remember a story coming out a couple weeks ago that if Fox didn't use Deadpool in one of their movies in the next couple years the rights would revert. It didn't make sense to me then because I thought they had Deadpool's rights due to the X-Men, but now that I know his rights were originally separate it makes more sense to me.

I can't say what the details are or if this is even 100% accurate, but I remember a Fox rep several years ago basically saying that if they made a Surfer film, that would extend the FF rights and vice versa.

If that's correct, I'm wondering about the wording of the contract. If a Surfer film would extend the FF rights, is it possible that a Torch appearance in an X-Men film (for example) would also extend the rights? That's a scary possibility. I hope Marvel has wording to prevent something like that.

You'll have to find me that quote. Studios don't usually comment on things like that.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

You'll have to find me that quote. Studios don't usually comment on things like that.

I just did a quick search but couldn't find it. I'm going to note the name of the scriptwriter ( Straczynski ) here because that might help me find it when I have more time tonight.

I think the quote I'm thinking of may have come directly from Rothman, but I can't remember for sure and I'll see if I can find it later.

But even if Rothman did say that, it doesn't mean it's true.

 

[Mr. Dent]

It's interesting we're getting all this info on movies that come out after this FF reboot and not a peep on it. Argh, I wish we could find out details about this or at least when the rights revert.

 

[Green Goblin]

Perhaps FOX are waiting to see how DOFP performs before making a move.

 

[Zarex]

I just did a quick search but couldn't find it. I'm going to note the name of the scriptwriter ( Straczynski ) here because that might help me find it when I have more time tonight.

I think the quote I'm thinking of may have come directly from Rothman, but I can't remember for sure and I'll see if I can find it later.

But even if Rothman did say that, it doesn't mean it's true.

I remember another quote on-line in which an unidentified FOX executive said that, if they were desperate, the studio would play a very low budget X-Men film in just one theater in order to hold onto the film rights. That was pre buy-out, however, and FOX won't find a theater owner willing to be banned from showing Marvel, Pixar, Star Wars, Disney and Disney Animation films "in perpetuity".

Perhaps FOX are waiting to see how DOFP performs before making a move.

Hopefully, that will be too late.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I remember another quote on-line in which an unidentified FOX executive said that, if they were desperate, the studio would play a very low budget X-Men film in just one theater in order to hold onto the film rights. That was pre buy-out, however, and FOX won't find a theater owner willing to be banned from showing Marvel, Pixar, Star Wars, Disney and Disney Animation films "in perpetuity".

Yes. I remember that quote also and I was trying to find it to see if it would help me find the other, but no luck on either as of this moment.

 

[Green Goblin]

FOX - Every MCU fanboy's enemy.

 

[Green Goblin]

Why not just gather an angry Mob from IGN/Comic Book Movie and burn down the headquarters in a desperate bid to regain the film rights?

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Why not just gather an angry Mob from IGN/Comic Book Movie and burn down the headquarters in a desperate bid to regain the film rights?

BYOT (Bring Your Own Torches)

 

[Whiskey Tango]

FOX - Every MCU fanboy's enemy.

Why not just gather an angry Mob from IGN/Comic Book Movie and burn down the headquarters in a desperate bid to regain the film rights?

I have a better idea - why don't you stop trolling and trying to rile people up with inflammatory comments like these?

 

[Mr. Dent]

Perhaps FOX are waiting to see how DOFP performs before making a move.

If they can delay production that long then we've lost.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

If they can delay production that long then we've lost.

Solidarity my brothers! We must oppose the Foxtastic Four at every turn!

I guess anything's possible but I would be extremely surprised to learn that Marvel signed a contract that would've allowed one of their premier properties languish for a decade. If that's the case Marvel was either very desperate or foolish (or both) or Fox paid them a very pretty penny. Who knows? None of us are privy to the details.

However, I have to admit hearing how Marvel let the Silver Surfer rights go AGAIN in the 21st century well after their bankruptcy makes me question the decision makers here. It's not like we got an epic Galactus saga out of the deal. And now we have Thanos without Galactus. The fans got screwed. Twice.

In the end, I'm of the mindset that the rights don't necessarily have to revert for us to get the FF franchise we deserve. This whole X-Men/FF shared universe chatter is just pure nonsense. We all know they belong in the MCU. Universal and Paramount both worked out production/distribution deals with Marvel Studios. Why can't Fox? As Jackman would say "Happy Days!" Make it happen!

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

This whole thing is like watching Lord of the Rings but instead of Sauron as the lead villain we have Gothmog the Orc (because Sauron is owned by Sony and Saruman by Universal) and the fellowship is led by Tom Bombadil (because Gandalf is owned by Sony). And instead of the Rohirrim marching to the rescue at Minas Tirith, it's Dáin and the Dwarves from the Iron Hills (because the Rohirrim are owned by Fox). And Aragorn doesn't become king but Boromir does (well because Aragorn is also owned by Fox). But don't worry we're going to get an Aragorn/Beorn/Farmer Cotton/Lobelia Sackville-Baggins crossover as they battle Wormtongue and the Spiders of Mirkwood.

 

[Mr. Dent]

You know what this situation may end up being like? When New Line set Nick Cassavetes to direct Iron Man back in 2004 with an eye to a 2006 release date...and it didn't shake out. And back then they actually had Marvel Studios' support, Fox doesn't even have that with this. The only thing that makes this more tangible than that planned Iron Man film is they have an actual release date set and not just the year...although that hardly means much more.

http://www.superherohype.com/features/articles/87271-nick-cassavetes-helming-iron-man

 

[metaphysician]

You do realize that neither the Fantastic Four nor Spider-man really have that much to do with the Avengers?

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

You do realize that neither the Fantastic Four nor Spider-man really have that much to do with the Avengers?

What are you basing that statement on? I think you may be failing to see the bigger picture here. Granted I doubt anyone cares if we see the Avengers face the Mole Man but this isn't about an Avengers/FF crossover. It's about some sanity in the Marvel Universe and being able to tell the best stories.

The Fantastic Four and its gallery of characters are extremely tightly intertwined with the characters that already exist in the MCU (or should very well exist soon). For instance:

• Inhumans/FF
• Black Panther/FF
• Reed/Illuminati/Planet Hulk (it was Reed's idea after all)
• Frightful Four/Medusa
• Namor/Reed/Sue (I don't care that Universal may or may not actually own these rights - there was the easter egg in Iron Man 2 and if Universal worked out a deal for Hulk I can't believe they are not going to work out a deal with the far riskier property of Namor. Plus how do you have the FF without Namor?)
• Namor/Human Torch/Invaders/Captain America (If Namor doesn't end up with the MCU what happens to this?)
• Thanos/Him/Warlock/Galactus/Silver Surfer/Infinity Gauntlet
• Defenders/Silver Surfer/Hulk/Dr. Strange/Namor
• Skrulls/Kree/Sentries/Ronan/Supreme Intelligence
• Annihilus/Annihilation Wave
• Hulk vs. Thing - a classic confrontation up there with Thor/Hulk and Thor/Hercules.
• Civil War/Negative Zone
• Doom/Kang
• Doomquest/Dr. Doom vs. Iron Man
• Secret Wars/Avengers/Doom vs. Beyonder
• Doom vs. The Avengers
• Well Dr. Doom vs. pretty much everybody

Those are just some examples. Spidey has had some important stories to tell that overlap but not to the same degree. How he got his symbiote suit exactly is far less essential to the Secret Wars story than how Dr. Doom took down the freaking Beyonder. More than any property, the FF belong in the MCU. It surprises me that more Marvel fans don't realize this.

 

[Green Goblin]

I have a better idea - why don't you stop trolling and trying to rile people up with inflammatory comments like these?

I don't see how a joke about the fanboyism suffered by people on IGN/CBM is trolling. My previous posts were mostly about how FOX could make the FF work in the X-Verse. Of course I want the rights back but I do believe that the FF has enough content in their universe to make at the very one good film.

 

[Green Goblin]

What are you basing that statement on? I think you may be failing to see the bigger picture here. Granted I doubt anyone cares if we see the Avengers face the Mole Man but this isn't about an Avengers/FF crossover. It's about some sanity in the Marvel Universe and being able to tell the best stories.

The Fantastic Four and its gallery of characters are extremely tightly intertwined with the characters that already exist in the MCU (or should very well exist soon). For instance:

• Inhumans/FF
• Black Panther/FF
• Reed/Illuminati/Planet Hulk (it was Reed's idea after all)
• Frightful Four/Medusa
• Namor/Reed/Sue (I don't care that Universal may or may not actually own these rights - there was the easter egg in Iron Man 2 and if Universal worked out a deal for Hulk I can't believe they are not going to work out a deal with the far riskier property of Namor. Plus how do you have the FF without Namor?)
• Namor/Human Torch/Invaders/Captain America (If Namor doesn't end up with the MCU what happens to this?)
• Thanos/Him/Warlock/Galactus/Silver Surfer/Infinity Gauntlet
• Defenders/Silver Surfer/Hulk/Dr. Strange/Namor
• Skrulls/Kree/Sentries/Ronan/Supreme Intelligence
• Annihilus/Annihilation Wave
• Hulk vs. Thing - a classic confrontation up there with Thor/Hulk and Thor/Hercules.
• Civil War/Negative Zone
• Doom/Kang
• Doomquest/Dr. Doom vs. Iron Man
• Secret Wars/Avengers/Doom vs. Beyonder
• Doom vs. The Avengers
• Well Dr. Doom vs. pretty much everybody

Those are just some examples. Spidey has had some important stories to tell that overlap but not to the same degree. How he got his symbiote suit exactly is far less essential to the Secret Wars story than how Dr. Doom took down the freaking Beyonder. More than any property, the FF belong in the MCU. It surprises me that more Marvel fans don't realize this.

I don't think anyone is saying that FF would be better at FOX. I'm sure that there could be three solo films you could milk out of the FF without having to use characters outside of the contract. More importantly you should NEVER wish a film to bomb.
What ever the outcome of this franchise be it with FOX or Marvel everyone should give the movie a chance.

 

[kaijunexus]

More importantly you should NEVER wish a film to bomb.
What ever the outcome of this franchise be it with FOX or Marvel everyone should give the movie a chance.

Why?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Why?

As much as I don't trust Fox, I don't see any reason not to give the movie a fair chance if Fox does actually decide to move forward.

Rothman's gone, Trank has some talent and since we don't know anything about the film at this point, I can't see any reason to not wait and see what happens.

Even if it's a 1 in 1000 chance Fox will make a good film, there's nothing to be gained by assuming they won't beat the odds.

Tomorrow is September. It will be interesting to see if this month brings us a whole lot of news . . . or a whole lot more nothing.