The Dark Knight The lack of realism

[The Dutch Hulk]

@Dotten

In the real world some of us are Batman and Two-Face.......they have a split personality or maybe in another way.....they have a good side and a dark side.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_Personality

Read about it and maybe you'll learn something.....

 

[The Dutch Hulk]

Double post

 

[I Am The Knight]

This thread is too funny.

 

[Dotten]

The OP gave TDK a 10. So, why is he not satisfied?

A troubled life?

Why so interested in me and not the topic of this thread?

You can read about me here if you want to:

http://wiki.diskusjon.no/index.php/Dotten

It's in norwegian, but if you really are interested in my life send me a pm. I'm not a guy hiding behind a nick, look me up if my life and if it is troubled ord not is of so big interst that you just have to ask in a thread with a totally different topic.

Oh, and for the SR comment. I have him in my avatar not because I dig the movie (SR was a disapoitment). I have him placed there for inspirational means.

Now, to all of you who are so vastly interested in me rather then the topic i raise, send a pm. Do the constructive thing. Maybe try to act like Bruce Wayne, if you really think you can relate to him. I raise a question, it should not be that hard to discuss it.

 

[Heretic]

I'm kind of lost here..

Yeah, The Joker is evil...but not unrealistically evil...Hitler was more evil than The Joker. Tons of people have been more evil than him. The Joker is just a crazy guy set loose on society. It happens...we had some crazies fly a few planes into some buildings back in 2001. It made the news, was a big deal, the city of New York was pretty concerned about it.

As far as Bruce wayne making superhuman decisions...again...lots of people choose the betterment of society over their own well being. Cops do it every day.

Technology: It is pretty advanced...which I would expect from a technology company. I am POSITIVE that in the real world, in the R&D departments of our top weapons manufacturers, there is some tech that would blow your freaking mind. Batman is a little ahead...and is an incredibly well trained athlete and fighter to boot.

 

[Octavias]

Um one point Id like to make to dotten... back in the 80's there was a preacher/televangilist that had almost the exact same injuries 2 face had in this movie. half of his body was hit with a napalm bomb in vietnam. it was so bad that when they got him onto surgery the napalm reignited and he almost died. half of him was horribly disfigured, burned to the bone, the other half ok. he lived and went on to be rather famous. the fact that you dont find it realistic by your opinion doesnt mean it isnt realistic.

People dont realize how unpredictable life can be. Just last month there was a guy who fell off a 500ft skyscrper and lived. the same week in my company a guy fell off a 6 ft ladder and died.

as for the tech, nolan pretty much seems to use versions of things discussed in popular science. Ive read about several of those things in there. Its completely realistic that a huge company like wayne ent. using it's research and development (r&d reffered to in movie) could come up with these things.

and the ethics/morals.... honestly there are plenty of people who have extreme and outrageous ethics and morals on both extremes. if you have yet to learn that, im guessing you are still a young person, mid twenties at best, that or very sheltered

 

[marukisu]

Well for a superhero movie this happens to be very grounded in reality through artstyle, and mannerisms of the actors, and becuase of the fact that everything isnt over the top. But if your complaining /or dissagreing with the fact that the movie is unrealistic then what do you want? I mean i think the fact the protaganist wears a bat suit kills any sense of realism that you may have wanted. Also most movies arent realistic and are meant to be a source of entertainment anyway.

 

[Parquagh]

The only thing that bothers me is how Batman crushed the van by throwing himself about 4 stories without getting any injury, I mean, even when he's got a protected suit his intention is to crush metal of the van; even if he glided with his cape to soften the fall, it is too much damage for him and the van...

 

[Dotten]

When it comes to joker you can't compare him to a serial killer. A serial killer (and mostly all other crazy murdering people) live in hiding. Many with what looks like "normal" lives. Hitler craved power, order and control, Joker craved chaos. To even compare Hitler to Joker shows a lack of understanding when it comes to the joker.

He walks around with scars and paint smuthered all over his face, easily managing to set up one scheme after another without Batman and the police force getting any tip. Everything about the joker is absurd and not grounded in realism. He does not pretend to be something else and does not play along to get people to follow him. So no way he would get so many followers. Not grounded in realism. He wandered around as himself completely only wanting chaos. Such a character is not grounded in reality, he could not have lasted long before commited.

Nolan chose to not explain him and he is a driving force of evil not at all grounded in reality. This is no Hannibal, living like a normal man eating people in his spare time. This is a evil man, not crazy, with an IQ way up there who manages to not only stay hidden but also plan everything down to the precise second and nothing ever goes wrong (before the end, or did it?).

He is so unreal that even Bruce Wayne, a man who spent years to find understanding of the criminal minds, is fooled and not before the end he kinda got to understand the crazy mind of the joker.

A serial killer craves for the kill, a pedophile wants to get it off, a gangster wants money. Hitler wantet power and control. Joker wants nothing of the kind and he did not pretend to be something else. Still he managed to walk around in at least a year, he was the most recognizable of all but he still managed to keep hidden (Batman easily found everyone else he was looking for).

All about the Joker, what he did, what drives him, how he managed to do what he did was not grounded in any kind of realism whatsoever. That's what makes him so scary, because people fear what they do not understand. And The Joker is no character to understand, because he is not grounded in reality. He is grounded in your worst nightmare.

 

[Dotten]

Well for a superhero movie this happens to be very grounded in reality through artstyle, and mannerisms of the actors,

This I totally agree on. Which may help selling the illusion.

and becuase of the fact that everything isnt over the top. But if your complaining /or dissagreing with the fact that the movie is unrealistic then what do you want?

I want what I got. But so many seem to live in the illusion, they seem to love the movie on aspects that I not consider fact.

As I stated in the first post, I don't want some over-realistic superheromovie. I see film because I want to visit another realism then my own. And that I got. But it baffles me when people seem to think that this could happen in our world. When reading such things I am wondering what the guy smoked. Pure and simple.

 

[christpunchers]

The only thing that bothers me is how Batman crushed the van by throwing himself about 4 stories without getting any injury, I mean, even when he's got a protected suit his intention is to crush metal of the van; even if he glided with his cape to soften the fall, it is too much damage for him and the van...

That scene and the entire fight in the parking lot was the "humor" of batman, his suit was too heavy so he used it to his advantage.

That was the only funny scene in the entire movie though. I did also like how the tumbler had a screen that said "loiter" "intimidate". Lol.

 

[Heretic]

Batman didnt find him because he didnt deem him a top priority. In the beginning of the movie Batman even questions why Gordon is bothering with The Joker when the whole mob is out there. He's just one loony guy, we'll get him eventually.

The problem with crazy guys is that eventually they snap and start killing people.

At no time in the movie does it show Joker just walking around town. He obviously lays low until its time to commit a crime.

The Hitler comparison I made is valid because you said that people who are high scale crazy dont exist, and clearly they do. Their motives hardly matter...they are crazy...their motives are often stupid. The guy who shot Reagan thought Jody Foster would dig him if he did it. So since motive is meaningless when talking about insane people, we simply have to establish that crazy people have done bigtime bad deeds in order to blow your argument out of the water. Many, many big crimes have happened...they happen all the time. Therefore, The Joker is possible.

 

[Superhobo]

ur freedom of speach?
okay buddy before you post why dont u go brush up on ur vocabulary and learn how to spell elementary words

besides what did my orignal post how to do with speech? i just said go stand in a corner and think of what he just posted... why dont you read the post fully and TRY to understand what you just read before you go bash my reply

Oh, the delicious irony.

 

[SuperSarah!]

its making me really sad that every time I open a new thread all I read is arguing


as for the subject at hand, I will admit...the first time I saw the movie, the only part that got me was the plane-pick up in Hong Kong.

I loved it, but I looked around at the audience for their reaction, expecting to see some skeptical faces....

In turn I just saw a lot of dropped jaws t:

other then that nothing really phased me.

 

[kapow]

just incase people did'nt know this is a film not a documentary so enjoy it for the great film that it is and bring it down just because it does'nt make it realastic.
this is the best film out there ever (thats what i think)
why do people try and slag a comic book film for not being realastic for the start a man running round in a bat suit is so normal.

 

[Superhobo]

When it comes to joker you can't compare him to a serial killer. A serial killer (and mostly all other crazy murdering people) live in hiding. Many with what looks like "normal" lives. Hitler craved power, order and control, Joker craved chaos. To even compare Hitler to Joker shows a lack of understanding when it comes to the joker.

He walks around with scars and paint smuthered all over his face, easily managing to set up one scheme after another without Batman and the police force getting any tip. Everything about the joker is absurd and not grounded in realism. He does not pretend to be something else and does not play along to get people to follow him. So no way he would get so many followers. Not grounded in realism. He wandered around as himself completely only wanting chaos. Such a character is not grounded in reality, he could not have lasted long before commited.

Nolan chose to not explain him and he is a driving force of evil not at all grounded in reality. This is no Hannibal, living like a normal man eating people in his spare time. This is a evil man, not crazy, with an IQ way up there who manages to not only stay hidden but also plan everything down to the precise second and nothing ever goes wrong (before the end, or did it?).

He is so unreal that even Bruce Wayne, a man who spent years to find understanding of the criminal minds, is fooled and not before the end he kinda got to understand the crazy mind of the joker.

A serial killer craves for the kill, a pedophile wants to get it off, a gangster wants money. Hitler wantet power and control. Joker wants nothing of the kind and he did not pretend to be something else. Still he managed to walk around in at least a year, he was the most recognizable of all but he still managed to keep hidden (Batman easily found everyone else he was looking for).

All about the Joker, what he did, what drives him, how he managed to do what he did was not grounded in any kind of realism whatsoever. That's what makes him so scary, because people fear what they do not understand. And The Joker is no character to understand, because he is not grounded in reality. He is grounded in your worst nightmare.

I wouldn't be too sure of that. Sociopaths, that all encompassing term that writers have been using to describe the Joker for the last twenty or so years, aren't at all that simple - not even nearly.

 

[VII7]

some as i saw his avatar i knew he was a troll this thread is LOL. ps superman is obviously more realistic. this movie is very realistic aside a few things that batman did.

 

[Dotten]

The Hitler comparison I made is valid because you said that people who are high scale crazy dont exist, and clearly they do.

I never said that, you are putting words in my mouth. I said people like the Joker, crazy as he is and capable of doing what he does, does not excist.

So sorry, you just can't find some crazy guy and say it is not so. Stay with me now, don't fight an opinion I do not have.

Their motives hardly matter...they are crazy...

Dude, when it comes to The Joker it matters more then ever. It's what makes him different then the psychos grounded in realism. If you don't want to look at that aspect then I have lost you.

 

[Dotten]

some as i saw his avatar i knew he was a troll this thread is LOL. ps superman is obviously more realistic. this movie is very realistic aside a few things that batman did.

You fail utterly. Yes I am a Superman fan, but no SR fan. I've also been a huge Batman fan for over 20 years (which probably is longer then most of the flamers in this thread have lived).

If you lack the skills to focus on my opinion rather then who I am then I suggest you stay away. If you want to know who I am then send me a pm, if you're so interested.

My question to you is if you have something on-topic to say, or are you just out to flame?

 

[Dotten]

I wouldn't be too sure of that. Sociopaths, that all encompassing term that writers have been using to describe the Joker for the last twenty or so years, aren't at all that simple - not even nearly.

Yes but a sociopath in the scale of Joker is not based in realism. Being openly sociopathic over so long time without being taken in? Never going to happen. And The Joker did not wander around trying to be someone else and hiding his true self. No. Batman had been at him since the end of Batman Begins and although he did not priority him in the days of TDK, no sociopath that wanders around openly would accomplish what Joker did.

That people even thinks its remotely possible makes me laught a bit. One has been captured by an illusion. Well played Nolan and co. (not pointed at you)

To please some one probably has to say "oh yes, this movie is so grounded in reaity it should be marked as a documentary!". I'm not getting the open-minded aproach, it's like craving for denial. Why I do not know, it's not like the lack of realism is making the movie worse. It's making it better. Cheers.

 

[craigaat]

Who cares?

The film is NOT realistic. I think Dotten just wanted to point that out to you all.

 

[Heretic]

I never said that, you are putting words in my mouth. I said people like the Joker, crazy as he is and capable of doing what he does, does not excist.

So sorry, you just can't find some crazy guy and say it is not so. Stay with me now, don't fight an opinion I do not have.



Dude, when it comes to The Joker it matters more then ever. It's what makes him different then the psychos grounded in realism. If you don't want to look at that aspect then I have lost you.

Now who's arguing a point I didnt make? The REASON why the motive doesnt matter is because HE"S CRAZY. He will FIND a motive because THATS WHAT CRAZY PEOPLE DO. And YES, people have been every bit as crazy as The Joker and have been able to do things like The Joker does. Youre entire argument is that since no one has ever actually been The Joker and been chased around by Bruce Wayne, then somehow he is different from every crazy perso who's ever lived. He is not.

Charles Manson was crazy...yet somehow talked a team of people into following him down his crazy path and killing for him. Manson went FURTHER than the Joker by not actually having to kill anybody himself because he had other people do the dirty work. Of course, thats because Manson used people who were already kinda nuts...wait...The Joker did that too, as the movie clearly states.

So, we've given you crazier people than The Joker, people with FAR larger kill rates than The Joker, and people who had gangs like The Joker...and your entire argument now rests on...yeah...but none of them wore face paint and purple clothes. I am sorry, friend. The Joker is a fictional character, and thus far that fictional character has not sprung to life. However, many people who have his form of insanity have existed...and done horrible things...I apologize that none of them called themselves The Joker. which to you somehow is what makes him less realistic than someone calling themselves say, The Unibomber or The Zodiac Killer.

 

[Dotten]

Who cares?

The film is NOT realistic. I think Dotten just wanted to point that out to you all.

Yes. Good summary. You have the most valuable talent of all - To never use two words when one will do (Tomas Jefferson). A talent I do not have.

Just to add a bit: I loved the movie because of the lack of realism, but I feel like I'm alone on that one.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

When it comes to joker you can't compare him to a serial killer. A serial killer (and mostly all other crazy murdering people) live in hiding. Many with what looks like "normal" lives.

Sure you can, because that's what he is. So he doesn't live in hiding? Big deal. What you fail to understand is that CERTAIN ELEMENTS of this film are portrayed realistically, but NOT EVERYTHING. I don't know why that is such a difficult concept to grasp! Again, almost nothing produced in Hollywood is 100% realistic.

Also, there's more to Ledger's Joker that meets the eye. He's portrayed as an "absolute" and we see nothing of his origin, but that doesn't mean HE DOESN'T HAVE ONE. It just isn't discussed. Maybe his motives are personal. We don't know what happened to him. We don't see it, but it's obvious that something made him what he is. Also, Ledger plays him very human. Notice how sensitive he gets when people call him crazy. It bothers him. It bothers him a lot.

Look at the Zodiac Killer. He was quite unique in his own way. I believe there was a guy who tried to mimic what he did, but noone really compares to this guy. I look at Joker as a very unique character, as well. What he does is not impossible. He may not be able to take it as far as he ultimately does in this film, but his actions are not terribly far-fetched.

 

[Majic Walrus]

This whole thread is based on the definition of realism.

Realism does not mean "realistic". No, Batman is not realistic because it is not realistic to dress up as a bat and fight crime. Batman in general is definately very fictional.

Realism simply stated is

1. interest in or concern for the actual or real, as distinguished from the abstract, speculative, etc.
2. the tendency to view or represent things as they really are.

This is obviously not realism in a visual arts or literary sense as those things are completely contrary to the argument. This is realism as it pertains to the every day person. To summarize this definition is, "Not fantastical or whimsical."

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are not fantastic or whimsical in nature. They are movies that are easy to believe because all of the things in the movie "could" happen. Obviously, realistically, they don't happen; that doesn't change the fact that most of the movie "could" happen. It's possible for someone to be scarred, paint their face like a clown and become a homocidal crazy (John Wayne Gacy anyone?) and it's possible for someone to get burnt on half their face and go crazy and it's possible to become a vigilante and go crazy (there wouldn't be laws against vigilantes unless there was a case of it occuring or the possibility of it occuring.)

All things considered Nolan stuck with Batman in a universe that was more real or believable than any other Bat-Director and therefore the movie should be praised for the level of realism it maintains throughout the film.