The Last Crusade of Relationships

[Dark Raven]

Personally I think that's an insecurity thing.

I mean, I would never in a million years go for a guy above my attractiveness level (unless he had a really bad social reputation that made him unattractive to most women, like an ex addict) because I'd be too paranoid.

I don't wanna date a guy whose quite short cause then I'll feel too tall. I don't wanna date a guy whose skinny cause then I'll feel too fat.

Equally, I don't wanna date a guy who is smoking hot, cause then I'll feel like his ugly bird. I'll have to deal with all his mates asking him why he's with that 'minger', deal with the dirty looks from all the hot and popular girls that WANT to go out with him and can't understand what he sees in a girl like me.

I'd put myself at a 7. I'd like to find myself a good 6/6.5.

That way i'd feel like the guy appreciates me more/feels lucky to have me. And I will feel more attractive because I will BELIEVE honestly that he thinks I'm hot.

Whereas, as depressing as this sounds, if a guy is that much hotter/fitter than me, I wouldn't understand WHY they would find me attractive physically.

Reading all that back, I know it sounds awful... But what can I say? It's the honest truth!

It doesn't sound awful, so no need to apologise. I completely understand where you're coming from and sympathise with you, and even agree as well. I wish I didn't agree, because an idealistic part of me thinks that it shouldn't matter how someone is and what other people think even if you are with someone much hotter than yourself. However, I do agree because I know what it's like in reality.

The reverse of what you're saying holds true for me too. I don't want to date someone whom no-one would find attractive (not even myself) - eg the woman looks like a man - because then i'll always be thinking that this is all I could hope to get and had to settle for someone like this. I would also always be thinking in the back of my mind what if I could've done better and wishing for someone else who would've been more of my type really.

Or it's that lesser attractive guys try harder. I know this couple like that and it was mentioned that he knows how lucky he is and tries very hard.

Well how hard can you try realistically without ending up looking like a stalker or someone who doesn't take no for an answer? Online, if a girl doesn't like the look of you, she can just block you on a dating site. You can keep bombarding her with emails, but she'll just report you.

There are some girls for whom, even if you try as hard as possible, they will not budge whatsoever. When you do try harder, it actually works to your detriment, because it causes them to flee and drives them away even more. Then they say that if you didn't try so hard, they might be more open, but then they're not. They are still as cold towards you, so the truth is that they simply don't want to know you and prefer to keep you at a certain arms length where you don't exist. Make any move beyond that distance and you're infringing upon them and they start to feel very uncomfortable.

This can be simply for even talking to them and trying to engage them in a conversation as any normal person would, and not doing anything wrong whatsoever (eg not displaying any stalking behaviour or being too forward/ assertive etc). This kind of behaviour from others can make you feel as if there's something intrinsically wrong with you just for being who you are, as they would entertain the exact same interaction from other guys whom they deem acceptable.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

It doesn't sound awful, so no need to apologise. I completely understand where you're coming from and sympathise with you, and even agree as well. I wish I didn't agree, because an idealistic part of me thinks that it shouldn't matter how someone is and what other people think even if you are with someone much hotter than yourself. However, I do agree because I know what it's like in reality.

The reverse of what you're saying holds true for me too. I don't want to date someone whom no-one would find attractive (not even myself) - eg the woman looks like a man - because then i'll always be thinking that this is all I could hope to get and had to settle for someone like this. I would also always be thinking in the back of my mind what if I could've done better and wishing for someone else who would've been more of my type really..

Yeah it totally works that way round for me too.

Like I couldn't date someone I didn't find attractive just because I knew I was hotter than them and therefore being with them I didn't feel insecure.

They have to be attractive enough for ME to be attracted to them (honestly don't care if all my friends don't find him hot though)

I just prefer to be the slightly hotter one of the couple. So that his friends are saying 'Nice one, how'd you get a girl like that?' and if he ever does anything wrong my mates will be like 'Screw him, you can do way better than him anyway, he doesn't know how lucky he is!'

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Now, I will say right here, I very rarely say no to a free drink, especially from a friend. I do not feel that it means I owe you anything.

I will say this - I see this brought up a lot, whether here, or in other conversations I have about relationships and dating, and while I do agree that me buying a girl a drink doesn't entitle me to sex, or a date, or anything like that, if I buy a girl a drink, I would like her to give me a little bit of her time and engage me in conversation for a short bit. I'm not buying a girl a drink for my health, or just to be the nice guy that randomly rewards girls and buys them drinks out of the goodness of my heart. I'm doing it to open up a communication, and try to talk to the girl.

That doesn't mean she has to spend the rest of the night with me, and go home with me, but give me a few minutes, let's converse, and if there's no spark, then the worst case scenario is I'm out $5 and you're out 5 minutes.

That said, it is a bit different if I'm with friends, and in that case, maybe I am buying you the drink out of the goodness of my heart

As for the rest of your story, unfortunately, I've been that guy, all I can say is that I'm not that guy anymore, and hopefully those "way too clingy" traits don't come out this time around.

 

[Dark Raven]

I personally don't find a drink means anything at all. It's literally just a way of being polite and buying them something to quench their thirst. I don't see it as a prelude to anything or that it requires any kind of obligation even to keep talking. People buy each other drinks all the time - men even buy other men drinks sometimes, women buy women, or women buy men drinks. I see this every week in the pub. It means absolutely nothing and most of the time I don't even see the person who bought the drink necessarily even talking to the person they bought it for. It was just a good deed lasting only for that moment as an end in itself.

So I wouldn't read too much into a drink at all. I can't see how it automatically plants the idea of the hope of sex in some people's minds. It's almost as unrelated as if you were asking someone for map directions or the time, and then thinking that because they stopped to talk to you, it's a prelude to sex.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

My current bf is the first bf I've ever moved in with, he's my second bf EVER, and it was very much smooth sailing in the 4 months we had together before he moved away. I think a HUGE reason was that we are both introverts and very much understand each other's need for alone time. I didn't get at all offended if he said he wanted to go out by himself for a bit. It didn't mean that he was gonna go off and see another woman. It just meant he wanted to go off by himself for a bit, and it had nothing to do with not wanting to be with me. If your relationship is strong, he'll always come back to you. You really need that trust, and be able to communicate that in order for a co-habitation to work.

So only you can decide when you're ready for that.

This is also an example of your boyfriend doing it right. He may not be a player with swagger, BUT he shows confidence and personal security in having the ability to spend time by himself, and entertain himself, which counts for more than most people may give it credit.

The inexperienced would be shocked how easily a couple can kill attraction by spending too much time with each other.

Now I’m not saying its bad to hang out in the same room, or play a video game together, or go out for a meal, see a movie, hit the sauna and whirl-pool, take a trip etc... but a couple needs to have some time for themselves too.

This works both ways, if I’m with a girl too often, I cannot get in the mood for intimacy. She becomes like my sister. The term for it is roommate syndrome.

One trick in living together with someone is to spend time in separate rooms. My fiancée and I spend time in separate rooms, and probably less than 3 hours on average together during waking hours, even living under the same roof.

Its just not good for a couple to be attached at the hip too much.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

What if your looks are such that no-one is ever attracted to you physically, and the only way a girl could like you is by getting to know your personality and character in person (not through reading a profile)? Wouldn't that mean that online dating (where you're judged by your photo) wouldn't ever work for some because they'll be automatically dismissed as a potential candidate?

I doubt you are that ugly. Can you sum up the courage to post a picture here?

Anyway, as for online dating, you're in luck, as women are far more likely to read an entire profile than to go on looks alone. Women rate a man on far more criteria than men use for women.

Do not project our very male sense standards to what women use as criteria.

Make sure your profile is easy to read. Make sure you don't ramble on too much in giving your whole life story either.

Think of it as more of a resume, than an essay.

You want to include some humor too, show that you are not taking this too seriously. Humor shows confidence.

Mention some things you like to do for fun.

Don’t ever write anything that indicates you are out of options or shows that you have resorted to online dating out of desperation.

You want to reframe things in that you are online looking for a girl because the ones you meet in person, while pretty, simply have not really impressed you with who they are as a person. You are looking for a girl who has more to offer than just pretty looks, and being online allows you to read a bit about her first.

 

[Anita18]

What if your looks are such that no-one is ever attracted to you physically, and the only way a girl could like you is by getting to know your personality and character in person (not through reading a profile)? Wouldn't that mean that online dating (where you're judged by your photo) wouldn't ever work for some because they'll be automatically dismissed as a potential candidate?

At what point do you consider yourself too ugly to be attractive?

I mean hell, this couple is married, and she's said on record that it was literally love at first sight...for her! (Yes, I know I keep on bringing them up, but they are really THAT AWESOME that I will cry if they ever broke up.)

He's so dweeby even I don't find him physically attractive. But she's like the hottest babe and she did.

If you think that you are too ugly to be considered physically attractive to any woman, get over yourself and meet more women. It isn't guaranteed you'll find yourself a bona fide babe, but you know, different strokes for different folks.

Personally I think that's an insecurity thing.

I mean, I would never in a million years go for a guy above my attractiveness level (unless he had a really bad social reputation that made him unattractive to most women, like an ex addict) because I'd be too paranoid.

I don't wanna date a guy whose quite short cause then I'll feel too tall. I don't wanna date a guy whose skinny cause then I'll feel too fat.

Equally, I don't wanna date a guy who is smoking hot, cause then I'll feel like his ugly bird. I'll have to deal with all his mates asking him why he's with that 'minger', deal with the dirty looks from all the hot and popular girls that WANT to go out with him and can't understand what he sees in a girl like me.

I'd put myself at a 7. I'd like to find myself a good 6/6.5.

That way i'd feel like the guy appreciates me more/feels lucky to have me. And I will feel more attractive because I will BELIEVE honestly that he thinks I'm hot.

Whereas, as depressing as this sounds, if a guy is that much hotter/fitter than me, I wouldn't understand WHY they would find me attractive physically.

Reading all that back, I know it sounds awful... But what can I say? It's the honest truth!

No, I think this too. I think it's pretty normal, so when I was online dating I didn't go straight for the male model-type. Usually guys like that KNOW how attractive they are and frankly, that's a turn-off. I find it so cute when guys don't really know how attractive they are. I mean, if they dress like a schlub that's no good, but it's not hot when they spend more time on their hair than I do!

My best friend and I agree that usually you end up feeling that way, but mostly because you think your partner is more attractive than you are even though you're probably equal on the "scale" in reality. I like to joke that I'm the butterface in the relationship and he's got the modelesque facial features with the meh body.

But he even thinks my face is beautiful, so it's not really up to you to decide the last word.

The reverse of what you're saying holds true for me too. I don't want to date someone whom no-one would find attractive (not even myself) - eg the woman looks like a man - because then i'll always be thinking that this is all I could hope to get and had to settle for someone like this. I would also always be thinking in the back of my mind what if I could've done better and wishing for someone else who would've been more of my type really.

I keep on seeing this and frankly it makes me . Double standard much? When people say this, it makes them sound like all they're looking for is a trophy partner.

Your type will be your type, not just physically but emotionally and intellectually too. You have to take the entire package into account.

Well how hard can you try realistically without ending up looking like a stalker or someone who doesn't take no for an answer? Online, if a girl doesn't like the look of you, she can just block you on a dating site. You can keep bombarding her with emails, but she'll just report you.

There are some girls for whom, even if you try as hard as possible, they will not budge whatsoever. When you do try harder, it actually works to your detriment, because it causes them to flee and drives them away even more. Then they say that if you didn't try so hard, they might be more open, but then they're not. They are still as cold towards you, so the truth is that they simply don't want to know you and prefer to keep you at a certain arms length where you don't exist. Make any move beyond that distance and you're infringing upon them and they start to feel very uncomfortable.

Well you know, when a girl just isn't into you, she just isn't into you. (Same for guys too!) Nothing you can do can magically make her more attracted to you if she simply isn't.

What Erzengel means in "trying harder" is that some guys don't get discouraged on sight when they see a beautiful woman. She might be out of their league, but they're still going to go up to her and give it a shot. And if she says no, no harm no foul. Their spirit isn't dampened by that. They simply keep trying.

That's how even the balding, overweight, bespectacled, guy with a severe stutter can find himself a beautiful devoted wife.

Yeah it totally works that way round for me too.

Like I couldn't date someone I didn't find attractive just because I knew I was hotter than them and therefore being with them I didn't feel insecure.

They have to be attractive enough for ME to be attracted to them (honestly don't care if all my friends don't find him hot though)

I just prefer to be the slightly hotter one of the couple. So that his friends are saying 'Nice one, how'd you get a girl like that?' and if he ever does anything wrong my mates will be like 'Screw him, you can do way better than him anyway, he doesn't know how lucky he is!'

Funny. My mom says that my bf can't find a better gf than me...but in true motherly fashioned, she isn't referring to looks. I'm probably the only equally introverted partner he's had, who's understood him completely, and if he let that go well...that would be really dumb.

And he does know how lucky he is.

This is also an example of your boyfriend doing it right. He may not be a player with swagger, BUT he shows confidence and personal security in having the ability to spend time by himself, and entertain himself, which counts for more than most people may give it credit.

The inexperienced would be shocked how easily a couple can kill attraction by spending too much time with each other.

Now I’m not saying its bad to hang out in the same room, or play a video game together, or go out for a meal, see a movie, hit the sauna and whirl-pool, take a trip etc... but a couple needs to have some time for themselves too.

This works both ways, if I’m with a girl too often, I cannot get in the mood for intimacy. She becomes like my sister. The term for it is roommate syndrome.

One trick in living together with someone is to spend time in separate rooms. My fiancée and I spend time in separate rooms, and probably less than 3 hours on average together during waking hours, even living under the same roof.

Its just not good for a couple to be attached at the hip too much.

Yeah about that - we lived in a studio together. But it does have a semi-enclosed kitchen and I managed to wall that off such that it was LIKE we were in separate rooms even though we weren't.

It was actually rather rare that we'd be sitting together even when in the same room. Only for meals and watching stuff on Netflix. And sleeping.

I doubt you are that ugly. Can you sum up the courage to post a picture here?

Anyway, as for online dating, you're in luck, as women are far more likely to read an entire profile than to go on looks alone. Women rate a man on far more criteria than men use for women.

Do not project our very male sense standards to what women use as criteria.

I can't speak for all women, but that's what I did. Most guys I'd only find marginally attractive in photos, but their profile would win me over. Usually the hot ones have the "I know I'm hot" photos and that would turn me off initially, the badly-written profiles would just cement that opinion.

 

[Erzengel]

I have a computer room upstairs, family room and a finished basement. It's nice to be able to get away from each other every once and a while.

 

[Angel_Faerie]

Waaaaay too soon, I think. You've only been dating for a few months, and he's the first guy you've ever dated. Too much commitment and not enough experience are a bad combo when it comes to something as serious as living together.

Well right now we aren't talking like "Hey! Let's move in together!" It's more like "Maybe we could move in together at some point, maybe even soon-ish since you (meaning Ephraim) are looking for an apartment and I (meaning me) kind of want to leave the nest". He already said if I'm not comfortable with the idea it's ok. He doesn't want me to feel pressured into it if I don't want to.

I think it is definitely too soon to move in. I wouldn't even consider moving in with someone unless we were dating for at least a year or two, just because its a big step and you want to make sure that there is some lasting connection between the two of you, other than him just being the first real boyfriend you've had.

Things like this are where age is not as much of a factor, but rather mental maturity. You worried about him talking to his ex, then getting a ticket with him, then about the fact that he hadn't kissed you for a while. Imagine how much more complicated things will get if you're together most of the time. You'll start worrying about other things, like if he didn't get home when you expected him, or what would happen if you guys couldn't afford the rent. Not to mention, all of your insecurities will be magnified just because of how much you'll be around him and how much more he'll see you. This is a decision that shouldn't even be considered at this stage of the relationship. You both have a lot of growing up to do as people and as a couple before you start making big decisions like moving in together, or even sex to some extent.

I'm a worrier, I openly confess it. And my worrying may magnify if he and I moved in together, no matter how long we wait. But that definitely is an issue.

It's really up to you. My sister and her aforementioned bf moved in pretty quickly after getting exclusive and they have personality clashes at times, but it's never really about boundaries. It was the first time she's ever moved in with a guy. And the personality clashes would probably still exist if they waited too.

The most important thing IMO is to keep communication very very open. Although if you're feeling hesitant, it's probably best to wait.

And just because you've talked about it, doesn't mean you have to do it right now. My bf and I talked about how we'd feel comfortable moving in together pretty early on, but it didn't happen until like, a year later.

The only reason I'm hesitant is my worrying nature. I imagine us moving in together and it seems nice, but worries creep into my mind that it could lead to problems. But then I think it would make life easier because then I'd get to spend more time with my dog Jessie (I haven't gotten to spend a huge amount of time with her since he and I started dating) while still being able to spend time with him. My mind really likes to flip-flop and cycle through different possibilities and attitudes about things...it's kind of annoying.

And like you said, it's not like we have to decide on this right now. There's time. And there's no pressure whatsoever coming from him, which is a big relief to me.

You are old enough to have sex, so that will come down to what matters most to you. Weather it is religious and you believe strongly in waiting until marriage, OR you are just concerned that you want it to be special.

Four months seems like a short amount of time to be moving in with someone. I’m not a fan of that. It seems very risky, if things don't work out you could feel cornered, trapped in a situation that is hard to get out of.

The other reason I don’t think it would be wise to just move in with him is that you seem to be having some second thoughts, as obviously you are posting on a forum with an anonymous handle, looking for advice.

Besides that it seems very soon to be moving in, is there some other issue that is concerning you? What else is going on that is bothering you?

I've flip-flopped a lot over the years on the issue of sex. I've gone from staunchly believing in waiting until marriage, to waiting until I feel ready with a guy I trust, and back again more times than I can count. Right now I'm sort of in the second category, but a nagging voice in the back of my head keeps saying "but what about waiting for marriage?" And then I get into "What if I marry someone and we're just not sexually compatible and I'm stuck with that?" So my head's a jumbled mess on the issue, which says to me I'm not ready yet. Doesn't mean I don't want to at some point, because I do, I just don't know under what circumstances.

Well, my dog Jessie is sort of a handful. She's hyper, destructive, and territorial/jealous when it comes to me (and my bedroom - she won't let anyone else in there but me. If anyone else goes in there she won't stop barking at them until they leave my room). She also has severe separation anxiety. She freaks out if I just go downstairs and she can't follow. Don't get me wrong, she's a sweet dog, and I love her to bits, she can just be a lot to handle. He doesn't really mind her when he comes over, though she can get on his nerves. He's not a huge fan of pets as it is (he feels domesticating animals is somewhat cruel) and I worry if he and I moved in together Jessie would be the cause of strain between us. I absolutely refuse to leave her behind when I move away from home, so she and I are sort of a package deal. She's a big reason why I haven't moved out already. Apartments that accept pets are rare, at least in this town, and the ones that exist are WAAAAY out of my budget. I'd move in with a friend, but none of them want to have to deal with Jessie. He seems willing to deal with living with her in the house, but I worry that it'll lead to fights and problems between us.

Another issue is how I was raised. My mom always has moved very slow in relationships. And so I grew up thinking that slow was the right pace for relationships and that going any speed other than that would lead to disaster. And I don't want disaster here. I'd rather this relationship lasted. I'm not going to be naive and say "Oh, we're going to be together forever!! " because I know that anything can happen. My previous 3 (internet) relationships taught me that lesson well. They basically beat that attitude out of me with a steel baseball bat. That doesn't mean I don't imagine a future/life with him and hope for it, I'm just saying that I'm keeping in mind that it's not set in stone.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

So how many people have tried online dating services before and what have been your results?

I know Anita that you've said you've used POF with success.

I've tried a few before years ago, but most of the people liveod in another country, with only a very small handful even within travelling distance near where I live. It's different now even on the sites I've previously used.

However, the thing about these compared to meeting someone in person is that everyone has the mindset that they're trying to find an ideal match. Therefore, they'll automatically reject you on your appearance if they don't like you, whereas in real life they might not be thinking in those terms so might give you a chance once they get to know your personality. People might never get to know that on these online dating sites if they're completely judging by appearance, which is natural and understandable.

Met my girlfriend on eHarmony, we've been together for 2 and 1/2 years. I think online works, but it can't be your end all, be all. Put yourself out there, continue to try and find people in real life. I also think your profile is much more important than pictures.

Well yeah ya situation was worst by far. With me she just did not pick up her phone cause she turned it off and wasted my time. I do not care what anybody says man I hate flakes.

If she did it this time, most likely she like ya female friend would do it again. Does not matter if it was a date or just hanging it, if you agreed to chill with me and not showed up you played me.

I cussed her out for that through text msg tonight cause she still not pick up the phone. She replied back by saying '' say what you want but my pockets is fat, have nice night''.

Truthfully Daniel, you screwed this up for yourself in every possible way and this girl owes you nothing, but possibly a restraining order. You're really starting to sound like a stalker. You made plans to hang out or chill, this is a very important term you're using, when people go on a date they go out, they don't hang out. You were a friend nothing more, then you creeped her out by asking her to be your boyfriend, before you even asked her on an actual date. After that, it sounds like you called and texted constantly, her creep alarm was probably going off big time. Finally you called a number of times, it sounds like, to see why she didn't hang out with you ending with cussing her out. That's stalker behavior and could land you a restraining order. Learn from this experience, be much more calm next time. Don't wait months, ask her out within the first week of meeting her, don't ask her to hang out or chill, ask her to go out. Once the time and place is set, maybe call the day before to confirm, that's it, that should be the only communication, no constant calling or texting. Also don't ask her to be your boyfriend until you've gone out on a number of dates. If she flakes on that first date just shrug it off and stop all communication, don't ask her why, she's shown her hand and lost you.

 

[Erzengel]

Hahahaha. I'm glad I watched the Superbowl last night instead of participating in that debacle.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

Well right now we aren't talking like "Hey! Let's move in together!" It's more like "Maybe we could move in together at some point, maybe even soon-ish since you (meaning Ephraim) are looking for an apartment and I (meaning me) kind of want to leave the nest". He already said if I'm not comfortable with the idea it's ok. He doesn't want me to feel pressured into it if I don't want to.

I'm a worrier, I openly confess it. And my worrying may magnify if he and I moved in together, no matter how long we wait. But that definitely is an issue.

The only reason I'm hesitant is my worrying nature. I imagine us moving in together and it seems nice, but worries creep into my mind that it could lead to problems. But then I think it would make life easier because then I'd get to spend more time with my dog Jessie (I haven't gotten to spend a huge amount of time with her since he and I started dating) while still being able to spend time with him. My mind really likes to flip-flop and cycle through different possibilities and attitudes about things...it's kind of annoying.

And like you said, it's not like we have to decide on this right now. There's time. And there's no pressure whatsoever coming from him, which is a big relief to me.

I've flip-flopped a lot over the years on the issue of sex. I've gone from staunchly believing in waiting until marriage, to waiting until I feel ready with a guy I trust, and back again more times than I can count. Right now I'm sort of in the second category, but a nagging voice in the back of my head keeps saying "but what about waiting for marriage?" And then I get into "What if I marry someone and we're just not sexually compatible and I'm stuck with that?" So my head's a jumbled mess on the issue, which says to me I'm not ready yet. Doesn't mean I don't want to at some point, because I do, I just don't know under what circumstances.

Well, my dog Jessie is sort of a handful. She's hyper, destructive, and territorial/jealous when it comes to me (and my bedroom - she won't let anyone else in there but me. If anyone else goes in there she won't stop barking at them until they leave my room). She also has severe separation anxiety. She freaks out if I just go downstairs and she can't follow. Don't get me wrong, she's a sweet dog, and I love her to bits, she can just be a lot to handle. He doesn't really mind her when he comes over, though she can get on his nerves. He's not a huge fan of pets as it is (he feels domesticating animals is somewhat cruel) and I worry if he and I moved in together Jessie would be the cause of strain between us. I absolutely refuse to leave her behind when I move away from home, so she and I are sort of a package deal. She's a big reason why I haven't moved out already. Apartments that accept pets are rare, at least in this town, and the ones that exist are WAAAAY out of my budget. I'd move in with a friend, but none of them want to have to deal with Jessie. He seems willing to deal with living with her in the house, but I worry that it'll lead to fights and problems between us.

Another issue is how I was raised. My mom always has moved very slow in relationships. And so I grew up thinking that slow was the right pace for relationships and that going any speed other than that would lead to disaster. And I don't want disaster here. I'd rather this relationship lasted. I'm not going to be naive and say "Oh, we're going to be together forever!! " because I know that anything can happen. My previous 3 (internet) relationships taught me that lesson well. They basically beat that attitude out of me with a steel baseball bat. That doesn't mean I don't imagine a future/life with him and hope for it, I'm just saying that I'm keeping in mind that it's not set in stone.

Good to hear you and the boyfriend are doing well. Sounds like you've also got a handle on the situation, you know you aren't ready yet, but it's great that you're talking about it. I asked my girlfriend to move in together about 6 months after we started dating, but her roommate pressured her into resigning their lease early because the roommate felt like I was going to ask soon and didn't want to have to find a new roommate. So we just waited a year. Wait until you're ready, moving in is a big step and unlike a first kiss, can wait a long time.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I kinda agree with amazingfantasy here.

I was at a party awhile back where I had to console a friend who was upset about a girl. At first I thought, well okay, she rejected him, and he seems new to the game (he's young), he just needs to have some friends cheer him up and get him back in the game.

Then he started going on and on about how the girl had something going on with another guy, and if she did, she should tell him.

He got jealous, and started acting possessive. He confronted her at the party about the other guy (who nothing was even going on with). They got the other guy involved to tell him that nothing was going on. He kept going on and on about how she owed him an explanation. He was crying throughout the night about her. Finally, I had to pull him aside and tell him that she owes him nothing, they aren't together, and he needs to stop investing in a girl that he has absolutely nothing with. Like her, ask her out, and even be disappointed if she rejects you, but she doesn't "owe" you anything.

I can say, as bad as I've been (and I've been bad), I've never been that kind of stalkerish, possessive type. I think the worst I ever did was, in high school, a girl I was "in love with", she had a boyfriend, and I wrote her a letter of my feelings and gave it to her, even though she already knew how I felt.

It was a situation that I realized the error of my ways rather quickly after the fact. The girl and I ended on friendly terms, but I way crossed boundaries I shouldn't have.

Other than that, I may push too hard or come on too strong, but I walk away once its clear there is no returned affection

 

[Anita18]

I've flip-flopped a lot over the years on the issue of sex. I've gone from staunchly believing in waiting until marriage, to waiting until I feel ready with a guy I trust, and back again more times than I can count. Right now I'm sort of in the second category, but a nagging voice in the back of my head keeps saying "but what about waiting for marriage?" And then I get into "What if I marry someone and we're just not sexually compatible and I'm stuck with that?" So my head's a jumbled mess on the issue, which says to me I'm not ready yet. Doesn't mean I don't want to at some point, because I do, I just don't know under what circumstances.

Well, my dog Jessie is sort of a handful. She's hyper, destructive, and territorial/jealous when it comes to me (and my bedroom - she won't let anyone else in there but me. If anyone else goes in there she won't stop barking at them until they leave my room). She also has severe separation anxiety. She freaks out if I just go downstairs and she can't follow. Don't get me wrong, she's a sweet dog, and I love her to bits, she can just be a lot to handle. He doesn't really mind her when he comes over, though she can get on his nerves. He's not a huge fan of pets as it is (he feels domesticating animals is somewhat cruel) and I worry if he and I moved in together Jessie would be the cause of strain between us. I absolutely refuse to leave her behind when I move away from home, so she and I are sort of a package deal. She's a big reason why I haven't moved out already. Apartments that accept pets are rare, at least in this town, and the ones that exist are WAAAAY out of my budget. I'd move in with a friend, but none of them want to have to deal with Jessie. He seems willing to deal with living with her in the house, but I worry that it'll lead to fights and problems between us.

Another issue is how I was raised. My mom always has moved very slow in relationships. And so I grew up thinking that slow was the right pace for relationships and that going any speed other than that would lead to disaster. And I don't want disaster here. I'd rather this relationship lasted. I'm not going to be naive and say "Oh, we're going to be together forever!! " because I know that anything can happen. My previous 3 (internet) relationships taught me that lesson well. They basically beat that attitude out of me with a steel baseball bat. That doesn't mean I don't imagine a future/life with him and hope for it, I'm just saying that I'm keeping in mind that it's not set in stone.

Well, I lost my virginity at 25 and I never even considered waiting for marriage. I was just waiting for someone I could trust.

IMO it is SUPER IMPORTANT to be able to talk through sex and what's comfortable and not comfortable. You won't be able to know this about a person until you try them out in bed. Some people can have a out of hangups about sex that wouldn't be apparent until they're in bed with someone.

The dog will sadly be an issue, especially if Jessie's as territorial as you say she is. Moving in with him suddenly will be extremely traumatic for her, so if I think if you're going to move in with him eventually, take the time to get her used to him, and for him to be in your room, etc. It's really not fair to just hoist Ephraim and Jessie suddenly on each other in the same living space, especially if she's not comfortable with him to begin with. I mean, it's either that or leave Jessie behind, which is obviously not an option.

 

[Erzengel]

Angel, you need to slow it the eff down.

Not even the sex because believe it or not sex for the first time is nowhere near as a step as moving in together. Especially after dating only 3 months.

I know you said, something that I can see happening. That's one step down from saying, when we're married.

You don't know how many relationships break off because living together and sharing financial responsibilities eff up a relationship.

Reel that in.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I like to move in after the first date.

In fact, usually when I ask a girl out for the first time, I suggest our date be us packing together to move her into my place.

 

[Angel_Faerie]

Well, I lost my virginity at 25 and I never even considered waiting for marriage. I was just waiting for someone I could trust.

IMO it is SUPER IMPORTANT to be able to talk through sex and what's comfortable and not comfortable. You won't be able to know this about a person until you try them out in bed. Some people can have a out of hangups about sex that wouldn't be apparent until they're in bed with someone.

The dog will sadly be an issue, especially if Jessie's as territorial as you say she is. Moving in with him suddenly will be extremely traumatic for her, so if I think if you're going to move in with him eventually, take the time to get her used to him, and for him to be in your room, etc. It's really not fair to just hoist Ephraim and Jessie suddenly on each other in the same living space, especially if she's not comfortable with him to begin with. I mean, it's either that or leave Jessie behind, which is obviously not an option.

I understand that, especially considering my experience level in that area.

As for Jessie, she has never been outright vicious with anyone. She loves people and other dogs to death. She just gets uber excited and jumps up. She has long nails right now, so when she jumps at you it hurts. But that's no fault of hers. As for my bedroom, all she does is bark. She doesn't bite (though she has been known to give the occasional playful nip, but not hard - no obvious intent to harm), doesn't do anything to hurt somebody. She just barks and jumps at the person. And she won't stop until the other person leaves my bedroom or she gets worn out and falls asleep. She'll occasionally do the same thing if someone is sitting on the upstairs couch next to me. She pesters and pesters the other person to play. Lick their face or anywhere she can reach. It's not malicious, just annoying. I don't really know what to do to control it. The only person who Jessie seems to listen to the best is my stepdad Chris. With my mom and me results may vary. She'll sometimes listen, sometimes not. So having company over can be difficult, which is why he doesn't come over to my house all that often. I want her to get more used to him, and vice versa, but every single time he comes over it's the same thing. Usually we retreat downstairs and watch movies down there on the big screen, but then we get the joy of hearing Jessie whining and crying like she's being tortured because she can't follow us down there (we have the two floors separated with a baby gate so Jessie won't bother my mom's cat, Speedy).

Angel, you need to slow it the eff down.

Not even the sex because believe it or not sex for the first time is nowhere near as a step as moving in together.

You don't know how many relationships break off because living together and sharing financial responsibilities eff up a relationship.

Reel that in.

I understand that. Which is why we aren't moving in together right this minute. We've just been talking about it. He desperately wants to move out of his grandparents' house (he was living with them to help them when their health was bad but now they're doing better) and he knows I want to move away from home too, so we've just been talking about it. Not in any concrete sense, just talking about the possibility, what our thoughts are, talking about a few apartments he's seen, etc. And there's no pressure/rush. He's already said if I don't feel comfortable moving in with him within the nearby future (not immediate future, I'm talking a couple months if we did this) he'd understand. So things are ok on that front. Well, I am kind of concerned I'd upset him if I said not yet, but he said he wouldn't be so I'm trying to shut up my worrying side with that.

 

[Erzengel]

A couple months?

A couple months is 2 months to me. But let's say, 3-5 months.

That means you can see yourself moving in with someone after dating him 6-8 months.

Really think about what you are doing here.

 

[Angel_Faerie]

I am, which is probably why I'm going to tell him I feel it's too soon. My only concern is he might take it poorly, despite saying he wouldn't.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

EDIT: deleted because my friends just found out my username and I think they're gonna try and read my posts

 

[Erzengel]

I am, which is probably why I'm going to tell him I feel it's too soon. My only concern is he might take it poorly, despite saying he wouldn't.

I don't know how any guy can expect a girl he's been dating for 3 months, who hasn't even been "intimate" with yet, AND the fact that it's her first relationship and think theyshould move in together.

I know everything is so great in the first 3 months, hey even up to a year, but playing "House" is a HUGE step.

If he was smart he'd understand that.

 

[Anita18]

I understand that, especially considering my experience level in that area.

As for Jessie, she has never been outright vicious with anyone. She loves people and other dogs to death. She just gets uber excited and jumps up. She has long nails right now, so when she jumps at you it hurts. But that's no fault of hers. As for my bedroom, all she does is bark. She doesn't bite (though she has been known to give the occasional playful nip, but not hard - no obvious intent to harm), doesn't do anything to hurt somebody. She just barks and jumps at the person. And she won't stop until the other person leaves my bedroom or she gets worn out and falls asleep. She'll occasionally do the same thing if someone is sitting on the upstairs couch next to me. She pesters and pesters the other person to play. Lick their face or anywhere she can reach. It's not malicious, just annoying. I don't really know what to do to control it. The only person who Jessie seems to listen to the best is my stepdad Chris. With my mom and me results may vary. She'll sometimes listen, sometimes not. So having company over can be difficult, which is why he doesn't come over to my house all that often. I want her to get more used to him, and vice versa, but every single time he comes over it's the same thing. Usually we retreat downstairs and watch movies down there on the big screen, but then we get the joy of hearing Jessie whining and crying like she's being tortured because she can't follow us down there (we have the two floors separated with a baby gate so Jessie won't bother my mom's cat, Speedy).

My parents' dog is like that, although he listens for the most part to me and my sister. My mom is definitely the boss. My dad lets him get away with things, which is exactly what he takes advantage of.

You're going to have to discipline her to not bark and to not be needy when people are around. That's really the end of it. You're going to have to. It isn't being mean - she's a dog and she WANTS to be an integral part of your family pack. She WANTS to be a good dog, but you aren't showing her how.

My friends who just had twins, they have terrific pets. One dog and four cats. They're awesome around the babies. If the dog is doing something she isn't supposed to, all they have to do is say, "No" firmly (not even loudly) and she'll stop doing it. (Heck, they can even do that with the cats. ) That's why I think they'll be great parents. You have to be able to handle a dog first before handling kids.

I understand that. Which is why we aren't moving in together right this minute. We've just been talking about it. He desperately wants to move out of his grandparents' house (he was living with them to help them when their health was bad but now they're doing better) and he knows I want to move away from home too, so we've just been talking about it. Not in any concrete sense, just talking about the possibility, what our thoughts are, talking about a few apartments he's seen, etc. And there's no pressure/rush. He's already said if I don't feel comfortable moving in with him within the nearby future (not immediate future, I'm talking a couple months if we did this) he'd understand. So things are ok on that front. Well, I am kind of concerned I'd upset him if I said not yet, but he said he wouldn't be so I'm trying to shut up my worrying side with that.

Yeah moving out from desperation isn't always the best idea. I mean, when my bf quit his job he could have moved in with me then, but it seemed too soon so we waited another 6 months until that lease ended.

If he can find an affordable place for himself, that's better than you moving in together right now, IMO.

I am, which is probably why I'm going to tell him I feel it's too soon. My only concern is he might take it poorly, despite saying he wouldn't.

Honey, you're going to have to trust him on stuff like this. This kind of worrying is going to stymie your communication, which will destroy a living-together couple extremely quickly. My bf and I survive the way we do (LDR and living together) because we have no qualms about telling each other stuff.

I know you're a worrier, but I'm not sure if you could somehow channel that into some other thing rather than what Ephraim may think about what you say. At least channel that into something else!

 

[Daniel Thompson]

Met my girlfriend on eHarmony, we've been together for 2 and 1/2 years. I think online works, but it can't be your end all, be all. Put yourself out there, continue to try and find people in real life. I also think your profile is much more important than pictures.



Truthfully Daniel, you screwed this up for yourself in every possible way and this girl owes you nothing, but possibly a restraining order. You're really starting to sound like a stalker. You made plans to hang out or chill, this is a very important term you're using, when people go on a date they go out, they don't hang out. You were a friend nothing more, then you creeped her out by asking her to be your boyfriend, before you even asked her on an actual date. After that, it sounds like you called and texted constantly, her creep alarm was probably going off big time. Finally you called a number of times, it sounds like, to see why she didn't hang out with you ending with cussing her out. That's stalker behavior and could land you a restraining order. Learn from this experience, be much more calm next time. Don't wait months, ask her out within the first week of meeting her, don't ask her to hang out or chill, ask her to go out. Once the time and place is set, maybe call the day before to confirm, that's it, that should be the only communication, no constant calling or texting. Also don't ask her to be your boyfriend until you've gone out on a number of dates. If she flakes on that first date just shrug it off and stop all communication, don't ask her why, she's shown her hand and lost you.

Ok I admit I did everything you said. But only cause I was upset and wanted to know why she played me. And she already knew I liked her for months so I thought I would just ask her before we went out and I did and she said to see how saturday night went. I mean she is the one who told me to call her when I got off work saturday to let her know I was getting ready to hang out, but she had the phone off for hours.

And she was texted me 2 days before saturday and that friday night, so I mean it cannot just be all me thats at fault here, sure I went overboard but I mean I had a reason too cause she flaked on me and I felt upset. But I learned from this expierence, but honestly she had to know I was gonna call and text her when she did not show up saturday night.

And I could not ask her out before because I just got a job and now financially stable to go out with women, thats why I waited to ask her to be my girl and I do not see how I creeped her out by asking her to be my girl when she knew I liked her. I mean I do not see how i'm a stalker since she agreed to these plans and had her phone turned off for hours and did not even tell me why she did not show up, like I said I had a right to call, maybe not alot but had a right to call and be like what the hell was up.

But my friends was right, I played myself at the end cause she ended up being a fraud, like I said she done this to people before, I should of listened to my friends, now I will.

 

[Erzengel]

And I could not ask her out before because I just got a job and now financially stable to go out with women, thats why I waited to ask her to be my girl and I do not see how I creeped her out by asking her to be my girl when she knew I liked her. I mean I do not see how i'm a stalker since she agreed to these plans and had her phone turned off for hours and did not even tell me why she did not show up, like I said I had a right to call, maybe not alot but had a right to call and be like what the hell was up.

But my friends was right, I played myself at the end cause she ended up being a fraud, like I said she done this to people before, I should of listened to my friends, now I will.

There are some things you don't force. I don't care if she knew you fought through time and space for her and saved her.

You remind me of a poster here who wanted to give flowers, candy and a gift to a girl he really liked in his class.

Problem though, he never even spoke a word to her. BUT he was already planning introducing himself, and then giving her all these gifts IN class.

You shouldn't listen to your friends. You should listen to yourself and hope this eff ups when you're young teach you how to react to similar situations in the future.

 

[Anita18]

Ok I admit I did everything you said. But only cause I was upset and wanted to know why she played me. And she already knew I liked her for months so I thought I would just ask her before we went out and I did and she said to see how saturday night went. I mean she is the one who told me to call her when I got off work saturday to let her know I was getting ready to hang out, but she had the phone off for hours.

And she was texted me 2 days before saturday and that friday night, so I mean it cannot just be all me thats at fault here, sure I went overboard but I mean I had a reason too cause she flaked on me and I felt upset. But I learned from this expierence, but honestly she had to know I was gonna call and text her when she did not show up saturday night.

And I could not ask her out before because I just got a job and now financially stable to go out with women, thats why I waited to ask her to be my girl and I do not see how I creeped her out by asking her to be my girl when she knew I liked her. I mean I do not see how i'm a stalker since she agreed to these plans and had her phone turned off for hours and did not even tell me why she did not show up, like I said I had a right to call, maybe not alot but had a right to call and be like what the hell was up.

But my friends was right, I played myself at the end cause she ended up being a fraud, like I said she done this to people before, I should of listened to my friends, now I will.

Um, you can certainly go out with someone if you don't have a job. There's plenty of cheap date options, but if you're the type of guy who thinks he need to wine and dine a girl to impress her well...no helping you out there. You're only looking for a trophy partner, someone to be with but not someone to share your life with. You don't even consider that maybe a girl would be creeped out by an acquaintance telling her he wants her to be his gf. Believe me, I'm a girl, I'm very tolerant of awkward guys (I even like them for the most part), but someone telling me he wants me to be his girlfriend before even a first date is very creepy.

And um, just because you "like" her doesn't mean you should say you want to be in a relationship right away! There's a jump between a crush and a relationship, and who knows, she could be absolutely intolerable one-on-one in an intimate setting. That's what dating is for. There was one guy I met online who looked really good on paper. He even passed my chat-level test, but he was absolutely intolerable on our first date. Well if I had asked him to be my bf before even going out on that first date, I would have been screwed, wouldn't I?

She probably let her feelings for all that known to you in the clearest manner possible. And it worked, you know.