The Dark Knight The Man Who Laughs: The Joker Thread 2.0

[ronny]

I just wish that the bleached flesh didn't have the connections to the Red Hood story. Then it would be perfect.

 

[Squidarella]

Back to the point about the toys--

I kind of disagree. The toys are not what the Joker is--they are one of many manifestations of what he is, but they are by no means necessary. The Joker is a JOKE, sure--but I think the expression of that can vary considerably and still feel very Joker.
Here's the thing: Batman and Joker need to be in sync with each other. The zaniness of the Joker depends entirely on how it happens to be playing off Bats. The poisoned cotton candy Joker is in a comic with a hardass, guns-on-the-batomoblie Batman. It's a gritty comic overall, with the Batman/Joker dyanmic working together to present a unified feel of the story.

Nolan's Batman IS a lot less campy, a lot less gimmick happy than prior Batmans--therefore, the Joker has to be less campy and random, or else you run into the whole "MEANWHILE, IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MOVIE," problem, and nobody seems legit.

So given that Nolan's Batman has explanations for everything (training, he doesn't make all his own gear because Lucius is helping, etc), Nolan's Joker is going to have to be grounded in the real world to a certain and significant extent. Movies--stories--ask you to suspend disbelief, sure. But you can't expect the audience to suspend significantly MORE disbelief about one character in the movie, or the tone of the story falls apart and it becomes very tawdry. So we can't have a Batman that gets all of his gear in plausible ways and then a Joker that--ALL OF A SUDDEN! FOR NO GOOD REASON! (thanks, Burton)--has a bunch of mime trained goons and rigged gag toys. I think this Joker is going to be a lot more about working with fairy ordinary things and making them uncomfortable and gruesome, rather than going for bright and cheap and cheesy "TA DA!" moments that would take a hell of a lot of resources to pull off.

And, I mean, compared to a lot of other movies? Batman asks you to suspend a lot LESS in the way of disbelief, because being rich and brilliant and jacked is, well, less of a stretch than being sole surviving uberman from a dead planet who happens to fit right in. I mean, come on.

For me, the Joker's always been a state of mind, and thus the thematic implications of the character all revolved around the psychological. The Joker isn't toys to me; the Joker is emotional dissonance, 'what does sanity mean?' and an exploration of sociopathy. The Joker's all about improper emotional response--things are funny that shouldn't be, jokes meant to be funny aren't, horribly things are funny depending on where you look at them. It's the horror/laughter thing that totally messes with our idea of what's safe, and there's a LOT more to that than surprise gags.

So for me...yeah, acid flowers would be mind trippy. You know what else would be mind trippy? A DIRTY CLOWN STABBING YOU IN THE FRIGGIN' FACE.

You'd have nightmares about that forever if you survived it (which you wouldn't), and feel just as stupid saying it out loud to someone who hadn't been there: "uh--there was this clown, right, this guy in this clown kinda make up, anyway, and he took this knife and--no, really, red smile and everything--OHGODITWASHORRIBLE. DON'TJUDGEME." If anything I think it would be worse to relate afterward than an acid flower...

I don't like some of the toys because I feel they lack finesse. I like my Joker competent, scary, and in love with himself. He COULD take the easy way out--"ooga booga I'm a scary clown with scary clown toys!"--but he doesn't, because he is BETTER than that. He's a clown in a tuxedo dancing the tango with a psychiatrist turned psycho groupie--and she was just a diversion while he was taking some time off. The man is good at what he does--he isn't really a clown, not really. He's the clown PRINCE of crime, which is classier, and a serious opponent for Batman in terms of will and cunning.

 

[Booznian]

I am in love.

Why does this picture look so awesome?

 

[The Caped Knight]

Man the make-up looks incredible (and it's not even Perma white) Congrat to the make-up department on archiving this .

 

[Juha]

I am in love.

Why does this picture look so awesome?

Woah!

Probably the best live-action Joker pic I've ever seen! And as we all know, we've got some amazing photos of The Joker throughout the last couple of months. This one is just iconic. Mesmerizing. The look in his eyes. The scars. The make-up. The hair. The purple suit.

Badass beyond words.

 

[Anubis Raptor]

I am in love.

Why does this picture look so awesome?

 

[Nivek]

Man the make-up looks incredible (and it's not even Perma white) Congrat to the make-up department on archiving this .

Apparently, Heath came up with the application himself (outside of the cut scars on his cheeks), which explains why it's so messy. Not a fan of the design, but his performance is what people are going to be talking about.

 

[laudanum09]

Ledger's Joker screams Bermejo to me in the new shot. Out of all drawn incarnations, Bermejo's and the one in the new Grant Morrison run is the closest to TDK's. Not the one with the uber-screwed up scars, like bubbling over and flipping inside out, but more like the one of joker and harley and joker making a dead mafioso smile in front of a plate of spaghetti.

 

[laudanum09]

As a long term Joker fan (not some fair weather fan that wants to see the Joker as a Freddy Kruger type) the cutting smiles thing is a huge turn off (so much for going back to the Jokers roots like Batman #1). Chelsea Grins are not all that original, and for close to 70 years non-elseworlds Joker never had to cut smiles, even in his darkest incarnations.

People who really think thats all that innovative really make me LOL.

have you been following grant morrison's run lately? because it does a similar thing to the above and it works beautifully. Its a good mix of gags plus Joker's darkest side.

 

[Nivek]

I think Joker cutting smiles is lame. Now, how it works in the movie is it's own thing, but in the comics, it's pretty juvenile writing IMO. It's something I would have thought was cool when I was 14 and I had no respect for character continuity.

 

[NoBozos]

at first I wanted him to be perma white. But I like the makeup idea. It makes it look like he's putting on his war paint to go out and reek havok.

 

[Marvolo]

I am in love.

Why does this picture look so awesome?

This is my favorite joker picture!

 

[laudanum09]

I think Joker cutting smiles is lame. Now, how it works in the movie is it's own thing, but in the comics, it's pretty juvenile writing IMO. It's something I would have thought was cool when I was 14 and I had no respect for character continuity.

I don't buy continuity. Is there an unbroken chain of continuities throughout the Joker's existence? I think its a pretty big leap from the 60s to 70s/80s...I guess Joker decided to stop being Cesar Romero, tying up batman to conveyor belts and instead shoots a woman through the spine. Not much of a gag there...oh yeah beating a young child to a pulp with a crowbar...two of the most memorable joker moments in his history (IMO) and they didn't involve any gimmick or gag. A gun and a crowbar.

Don't get me wrong, I like the mix of gags and darkness, but character continuity, come on, as if there are some joker stories that are excluded from some 'canon' that defines the joker's true 'essence'? I've seen Joker making a utility belt to rival batmans and seen him just murder for the f-ck of it. I've seen him gas people and give cut smiles in the comics. As far as I'm concerned there is no legible continuity besides what is subjective to the individual, this Joker character is essentially the totality of his appearances. theres no objective way of judging what belongs in the canon or not. IMO that is.

 

[sclabguy]

Took the word right out of my mouth

 

[donk70]

I am in love.

Why does this picture look so awesome?

Where did you get this?

 

[laudanum09]

i think it might have been either obtained by the domino vaults or through a ninja

 

[Anubis Raptor]

i think it might have been either obtained by the domino vaults or through a ninja

LMAO

 

[Nivek]

I don't buy continuity. Is there an unbroken chain of continuities throughout the Joker's existence? I think its a pretty big leap from the 60s to 70s/80s...I guess Joker decided to stop being Cesar Romero, tying up batman to conveyor belts and instead shoots a woman through the spine. Not much of a gag there...oh yeah beating a young child to a pulp with a crowbar...two of the most memorable joker moments in his history (IMO) and they didn't involve any gimmick or gag. A gun and a crowbar.

Don't get me wrong, I like the mix of gags and darkness, but character continuity, come on, as if there are some joker stories that are excluded from some 'canon' that defines the joker's true 'essence'? I've seen Joker making a utility belt to rival batmans and seen him just murder for the f-ck of it. I've seen him gas people and give cut smiles in the comics. As far as I'm concerned there is no legible continuity besides what is subjective to the individual, this Joker character is essentially the totality of his appearances. theres no objective way of judging what belongs in the canon or not. IMO that is.

Thats all good, but I'm a Joker fan. And the Joker isn't the Carver from Nip Tuck. The Joker kills people with self immune Nerve gas that asphyxiates people by having them laugh to death. Cutting faces, as I said, comes across as a juvenile stale idea.

 

[laudanum09]

Thats all good, but I'm a Joker fan. And the Joker isn't the Carver from Nip Tuck. The Joker kills people with self immune Nerve gas that asphyxiates people by having them laugh to death. Cutting faces, as I said, comes across as a juvenile stale idea.

I so happen to be a huge Joker fan myself. Yes he kills them with a nerve gas but its not as if thats the only way he's killed people. I mentioned previously two of the most infamous joker maimings/murders which involved a crowbar and a gun. And unless you're pointing out a highly specific type of Joker, you of course realize that he does cut smiles in the comics. So I don't see how cutting smiles in the comics is any less valid than using nerve toxin. Go get the next issue of Batman, apparently the Joker will make a re-appearance after his plastic surgery at Arkham and subsequent fight with Batman/Harley. As far as I'm concerned the way the Joker is written in Grant Morrison's latest run is the most mature and hardly juvenile rendition...some of the most sophisticated work with the batman lore I've seen yet.

 

[Dark Globe]

Thats all good, but I'm a Joker fan. And the Joker isn't the Carver from Nip Tuck. The Joker kills people with self immune Nerve gas that asphyxiates people by having them laugh to death. Cutting faces, as I said, comes across as a juvenile stale idea.

Your stupidity amazes me. The Carver isn't the only one who has cut smiles into his victims. These carvings have actually happened to real victims before and it's not juvenile.

 

[laudanum09]

LMAO

LOL, what is it because I said Dominos Pizza Vault and Ninja in the same sentence?

 

[Anubis Raptor]

LOL, what is it because I said Dominos Pizza Vault and Ninja in the same sentence?

yup, lol

 

[Marvolo]

Thats all good, but I'm a Joker fan. And the Joker isn't the Carver from Nip Tuck. The Joker kills people with self immune Nerve gas that asphyxiates people by having them laugh to death. Cutting faces, as I said, comes across as a juvenile stale idea.

The idea of people getting smiles cut into their face isn't a stale idea. It is something that ****ed up people have really done to there victims. By putting this in the comics it made joker more than just a villian with some gas. Killing someone with a gas is an impersonal murder technique, and allows the murderer to not have to face and look his victims in the eye. Essentially it makes him a coward. However, a murder who kills with a knife is truly ****ed in the head, because he has to look his victims in the eyes. He has to feel their life leave their body. Anyone, who can do such a thing is truly a psycho. So I am glad that they are doing this, because it makes him all the more true to his nature. A psychotic man with a twisted sense of humor.

Plus, no one truly knows who the joker is. He has changed so much throughout the history of the comics that he is an enigma. It depends on what you own objective view of him is. I think in a way the joker is designed to show us the darkness we all have inside of us, and what any human is capable of. He's the animal in all of us. We choose which joker we prefer and we choose him based own our own objective selves.

 

[The Shape]

There is no definitive Joker. The things he has done, along with the things he is capable of, are infinite and constantly varying. If loves the Joker best known for his gags (killer buzzers, laughing gas, acid from his flower), that's cool, but there are also people who prefer a more psychotic, realistic take on the character, as we're seeing in TDK and Grant Morrison's current run. There can also be a happy medium between the two versions, and people (like myself) who appreciate nearly all incarnations of the character.

 

[Nepenthes]

Everyone should go out and buy the Jokers Asylum on sale now. Great portrayal of the Joker, something a little different yet familiar, especially if you like the prankster aspect. And he's drawn like Heath Ledger.