The Dark Knight The Man Who Laughs: The Joker Thread 2.0

[That'ssuper!]

That's the stuff...

 

[TheBatman072]

I hate the word dapper.

 

[BurningBallroom]

I hate the word dapper.

Makes me think of nappies and old people for some reason.
Then again I am a bit weird.

 

[regwec]

the Joker is not always represented wearing a string tie- he sometimes wears bow-ties or cravattes.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Chris Nolan has stated that this Joker has no origin and that he is like a force of nature ripping through the story. But just for imaginations sake what do you think would be the most believable and interesting origin story for this portrayal of The Clown Prince of Crime?

 

[ActuallyRobin]

Not for this forum I'm afraid, or not needing it's own thread.

I think I prefer no origin, leaves no room to sympathise with The Joker.

 

[Aidan2209]

It's cool that we can speculate and create various origins ourselves, because no origin is presented. But I prefer that there is no origin at all. He's a mystery, a force of nature, and a creature that cannot be understood or sympathised with. That makes him more frightening. Bruce and Harvey are the characters being studied, and in a way they're two sides of the same coin. But the Joker is really a force acting against those characters and against the constructed world.

 

[carnage17]

i think maybe, hes actualy just a mobster and batman comes to save the day and drops him into a large container of toxic liquid causing his skin and hair to colour, sounds like a good idea to me!

 

[SonikDeath]

The mob wants to get rid of him so they scar his face, put him in a barrel and throw him into a chemical infested river.

 

[Juha]

No origin at all. You're not supposed to humanize The Joker. You're not supposed to understand him. You're not supposed to connect with him. No name, no past, no childhood traumas. There's no "this is how he became The Joker" explanation. Nothing. He's a product of the society. There are no answers. Only fear, anarchy and chaos. The Joker just gives form to these abstarct ideas.

This is how I wanna experience The Joker and I'm glad that Nolan agrees with me. To be honest, I haven't even toyd around in my mind with possible origins or background stories. I just haven't felt the need.

 

[Oryon]

No origin. Leave it a mystery.

As for the facial scars, my theory is that they are self-inflicted.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

No origin at all. You're not supposed to humanize The Joker. You're not supposed to understand him. You're not supposed to connect with him. No name, no past, no childhood traumas. There's no "this is how he became The Joker" explanation. Nothing. He's a product of the society. There are no answers. Only fear, anarchy and chaos. The Joker just gives form to these abstarct ideas.

This is how I wanna experience The Joker and I'm glad that Nolan agrees with me. To be honest, I haven't even toyd around in my mind with possible origins or background stories. I just haven't felt the need.

i understand what your saying but i mean maybe a origin that doesnt allow you to sympathize with him. i reckon he was a bank robber who was just too reckless and bloodthirsy for his own mob. he would get to the job and just start shooting up the hostages similer to mr blonde. his fellow mobsters getting pissed off with all these jobs going to **** decide to stitch him up and leave him for dead. they all think hes dead so then he comes back to rob all their money and become the new "godfather" of gotham.

 

[HUMANIMAL]

like in no country for old men...i really thought bardem(have forgotten his name in film):-( was a synonym (there are other words too)....for representing faith and destiny...and fear...then it reveals he was hired...and the magic got lost a bit ...even if has no origin...
like the one who calls the joker the bad part of harvey all the way during the movie till he turns into two face ...
i think its better to leave him a threat....a personification of, chaos, fear and suspense

 

[ActuallyRobin]

Anton Chigurh

 

[ronny]

i think maybe, hes actualy just a mobster and batman comes to save the day and drops him into a large container of toxic liquid causing his skin and hair to colour, sounds like a good idea to me!

No, actually it's a crappy origin for a brilliant character.
Batman should have no involvement in this mans actions. Or why he came to be so messed up.

 

[Mikesimus]

This is hilarious, remember when it first came out there was no back story for the Joker in TDK, everyone was up in arms, and how it was a disaster, and now, its better that there is no back story, and people are silly to think otherwise. Thats why I love these forums.

Anyway, I agree, Joker should be an absolute from the beginning, makes him more sinister.

 

[HUMANIMAL]

Anton Chigurh

thanks t:

 

[Juha]

i understand what your saying but i mean maybe a origin that doesnt allow you to sympathize with him. i reckon he was a bank robber who was just too reckless and bloodthirsy for his own mob. he would get to the job and just start shooting up the hostages similer to mr blonde. his fellow mobsters getting pissed off with all these jobs going to **** decide to stitch him up and leave him for dead. they all think hes dead so then he comes back to rob all their money and become the new "godfather" of gotham.

Yeah something like that sounds pretty cool but I still think there's no need to delve into anything like that. Maybe a hint or two about who he is and where he is coming from but that's it. First and foremost he should remain as a mystery. I think it would be cool if they would leave even the scars unexplained.

 

[Armored Avenger]

Seeing as Heath Ledger was given The Killing Joke to read, I consider that this Joker's origin (its also my favourite Joker origin).

 

[Laderlappen]

I wouldnt give Joker an orgin. The only point of an orgin is to feel sorry for him.

 

[Zohan Dvir]

A brilliant socially maladjusted engineer who developed a gambling problem and got in over his head with the mob. The gambling addiction caused him to lose everything and his pregnant wife, whose child was not his, committed suicide b/c of it. He couldn't pay his debt so the mob scarred up his face and left him for dead while sardonically leaving a deck of cards scattered around him. He passes out while looking at the Joker card and awakens with a rejuvenated self view, one that is not part of these civilized people and who is intent on destroying the society that tried so hard to make him conform.

 

[Nepenthes]

Anton Chigurh

I saw this quickly as I was skimming down the thread. I thought you meant that Anton Chigurh must have messed up the Joker. that would be awesome! I can actually imagine them meeting

I think the origin in the movie will be more enough. I don't take Nolans words at face value, we already know enough to put together a rough picture. The Joker has intimate knowledge of mob activities, he has scars on his face, and what doesn't kill you....


I wonder if that weird casting side set in the mobster burial ground made into into the film in any shape or form. Or if it was made-up simply to piss me off

 

[carnage17]

No, actually it's a crappy origin for a brilliant character.
Batman should have no involvement in this mans actions. Or why he came to be so messed up.

it was a joke, i was reffering to the 1989 batman film, where nicholson was dropped into toxic substance and his skin and hair changed colour!

 

[ActuallyRobin]

Yeh I should have quoted really.

But he made a good point, by not giving Chigurgh an origin, he was all the more menacing. Same goes for Joker imo.

 

[selinakyle415]

I agree with the majority.

There's an origin story called "The Killing Joke." I'll quote what I found on wiki.

Spoiler

The man who will become the Joker is an unnamed engineer who quits his job at a chemical company to become a stand-up comedian, only to fail miserably. Desperate to support his pregnant wife, he agrees to guide two criminals into the plant for a robbery. During the planning, the police come and inform him that his wife has died in a household accident involving an electric baby bottle heater. Grief-stricken, the engineer tries to withdraw from the plan, but the criminals strong-arm him into keeping his commitment to them.
At the plant, the criminals make him don a special mask to become the infamous Red Hood. Unknown to the engineer, this disguise is simply the criminals' scheme to implicate any accomplice as the mastermind to divert attention from themselves. Once inside, they almost immediately blunder into security personnel, and a violent shootout and chase ensues. The criminals are gunned down and the engineer finds himself confronted by Batman, who is investigating the disturbance.
Panicked, the engineer deliberately jumps into the chemical plant's toxic waste catch-basin vat to escape Batman and is swept through a pipe leading to the outside. Once outside, he discovers, to his horror, that the chemicals have permanently bleached his skin chalk white, stained his lips ruby red and dyed his hair bright green. This turn of events, compounding the man's misfortunes of that one day, drives him completely insane and results in the birth of the Joker.

​

Although "The Killing Joke" was an amazing story, showing the length the Joker would go to set people off, the origin aspect ruined a lot of his character for me.

There have been other cracks at his origin, in movies/comics, and personally I think it's better that he remain a mystery. I think Nolan is doing a fine job NOT getting into the Joker's past. He creeps us out more this way. Although we are all curious sometimes to see how something like this would pan out, sometimes it's better that we don't know. If we can't understand how the Joker got to be the Joker then it's easier to fear him.

..."And you always fear what you don't understand."