The Dark Knight The Man Who Laughs: The Joker Thread 2.0

[Ace of Knaves]

Yeah something like that sounds pretty cool but I still think there's no need to delve into anything like that. Maybe a hint or two about who he is and where he is coming from but that's it. First and foremost he should remain as a mystery. I think it would be cool if they would leave even the scars unexplained.

yea i wouldn't want his origin explained fully in the movie that would be stupid.sorta like a james bond villain talking about why hes doing what hes doing would just be ridiculous!!! but yea jus little hints and innuendos in dialogue with other characters would be enough for me. maybe alluding to previous jobs he was on where the **** hit the fan and loadz of hostages were murdered or something like that would be good.

 

[elizaabeth]

I unlike a lot of people here, would love to know his origin. It only intrestes me. It does not make me feel sorry for him but thats onlyl my opinion.

 

[adamwe]

Too bad these fanboys show how limited the imagination they possess really is. The poster challenged you to give the clown prince of crime a past based on Nolan's version of the him and all of you wimp out, saying that if Nolan says he has no past, it's gospel. You spend thousands of hours mindlessly debating whether or not Nolan has captured the spirit of Kane's characters, but don't possess the brain power to discuss intelligently how such a person could come about. You so called fanboys don't realize that the two most famous of the characters in the DC universe were wriiten without origins. Both the Man of Steel and the Dark Knight were introduced as absolutes and were given origins after the fact. The poster wanted someone with an IQ above a bottle cap to conceive of a pre Joker man. Too bad he couldn't find one here among his so called fans. Thanks Zohan for bravely submitting an origin.

 

[Tex Hex]

I too concur that the Joker should have no origin anjd I choose not to give him one even in my own mind because...well, I dont want to really limit what could have happened. I mean Mr. J is crazy for sure but he is also unrepentantly evil...I mean things he does are just flat out wrong, particualrly in this flick. I mean no amount of "oh the mob cut me up" or "waaah, my wife was killed and we lost our baby" to me warrants a guy blowing up a hospital while dressed as a nurse and taking such sick jubilant pleasure in it.The man himself is simply a force of nature and while we should certaily have teases as to why he might be this way, we should never find out, because the effect he should have on the audience is "Jeez...what the hell happened to that guy?!"

Plus I personally like the idea that while we now have a very detailed backstory for Bats in BB, as his opposite force we shouldnt have one for the Joker. Afterall, he doesnt know Batmans origin-and Batman doesnt know his. They dont know what makes each other tick, as much as they'd like to find out-but to eachother they are their respective masks....one is a symbol of justice and hope and order and they other is the symbol of injustice, evil and ruthless anarchy and to eachtother that is all they see.

Also, lets not forget that Mr.J is the master of BS...remember in Mad Love where he won over Harley with that story that his father beat him up and the only time they laughed together was at the circus...almost makes him a sympathetic character, until you find out its just a blatant lie from a guy who knows how to manipulate people.

 

[Showtime]

Too bad these fanboys show how limited the imagination they possess really are. The poster challenged you to give the clown prince of crime a past based on Nolan's version of the him and all of you wimp out, saying that if Nolan says he has no past, it's gospel. You spend thousands of hours mindlessly debating whether or not Nolan has captured the spirit of Kane's characters, but don't possess the brain power to discuss intelligently how such a person could come about. You so called fanboys don't realize that the two most famous of the characters in the DC universe were wriiten without origins. Both the Man of Steel and the Dark Knight were introduced as absolutes and were given origins after the fact. The poster wanted someone with an IQ above a bottle cap to conceive of a pre Joker man. Too bad he couldn't find one here among his so called fans.

Well why don't you share your origin then you wordsmith you.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

^yea i remember that episode it was quality! im not asking for a reason to why he is the way he is because yea i agree that will take away some of the menace. i deffinatly dont wanna here another sob story about a villain that has turned them insane or whatever. i was just alluding to previous things that this adaptation of the joker has done or what he is known for. maybe in the gotham police department they have records of a robbery that turned into a bloodbath but was never solved

 

[Nepenthes]

Too bad these fanboys show how limited the imagination they possess really is. The poster challenged you to give the clown prince of crime a past based on Nolan's version of the him and all of you wimp out, saying that if Nolan says he has no past, it's gospel. You spend thousands of hours mindlessly debating whether or not Nolan has captured the spirit of Kane's characters, but don't possess the brain power to discuss intelligently how such a person could come about. You so called fanboys don't realize that the two most famous of the characters in the DC universe were wriiten without origins. Both the Man of Steel and the Dark Knight were introduced as absolutes and were given origins after the fact. The poster wanted someone with an IQ above a bottle cap to conceive of a pre Joker man. Too bad he couldn't find one here among his so called fans. Thanks Zohan for bravely submitting an origin.

The point for alot of people is that in this presentation he appears to work best without an origin to make sense of his personality. It's part of the allure of a guy in clown paint, like what's his problem he has to do that? So if the original poster asks "what's the origin for Nolan Joker" and we say "I'd rather not know" that's not lazy or unimaginative. It's the deal for this presentation. Give him a story and the power of a guy who puts make-up on himself and wages war on city might fall to pieces.

It is a very good question though. actually more I think about it the more I want to make something up so maybe you have a point.

 

[selinakyle415]

Too bad these fanboys show how limited the imagination they possess really is. The poster challenged you to give the clown prince of crime a past based on Nolan's version of the him and all of you wimp out, saying that if Nolan says he has no past, it's gospel. You spend thousands of hours mindlessly debating whether or not Nolan has captured the spirit of Kane's characters, but don't possess the brain power to discuss intelligently how such a person could come about. You so called fanboys don't realize that the two most famous of the characters in the DC universe were wriiten without origins. Both the Man of Steel and the Dark Knight were introduced as absolutes and were given origins after the fact. The poster wanted someone with an IQ above a bottle cap to conceive of a pre Joker man. Too bad he couldn't find one here among his so called fans. Thanks Zohan for bravely submitting an origin.

I'm a fangirl. Haha.

 

[terry78]

Bob Kane never gave him an origin as far as I know, and that's basically as it should be. We don't know how he came about, he doesn't even know himself since he's so far gone by this point. The only way anyone in the DC-verse could do it is to go back in time, but none of the time traveling characters have yet to do such.

 

[selinakyle415]

"What origin would YOU give this Joker?"

I wouldn't. It has nothing to do with laziness or having no intelligence. I simply wouldn't give him an origin because in my opinion it makes him scarier. I'm aware that Batman and other such superheros we introduced as characters with no past, the origin coming later. I don't think anyone here is trying to say "Oh, all origin stories suck!" because they do shape and mold a character's latter being. It makes him more fearful, at least to me.

 

[elizaabeth]

Bob Kane never gave him an origin as far as I know, and that's basically as it should be. We don't know how he came about, he doesn't even know himself since he's so far gone by this point. The only way anyone in the DC-verse could do it is to go back in time, but none of the time traveling characters have yet to do such.

I do

but I really just wanted to say I love your thing about camping in your profile . hahaaahaha

 

[adamwe]

Well why don't you share your origin then you wordsmith you.

It's coming after I see the movie. My origin would be for Nolan's Joker which is what I think the poster intended.

 

[selinakyle415]

It's coming after I see the movie. My origin would be for Nolan's Joker which is what I think the poster intended.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

i started this post just to get peoples ideas about a origin in nolans universe. if you dont want him to have a origin thats fair enough in my book!whatever you feel no worries! but i just wanted to see what people think is a plausible explanation for THIS joker im not bothered about the comic book versions. like the post says jus for the sake of imagination!

 

[selinakyle415]

i started this post just to get peoples ideas about a origin in nolans universe. if you dont want him to have a origin thats fair enough in my book!whatever you feel no worries! but i just wanted to see what people think is a plausible explanation for THIS joker im not bothered about the comic book versions. like the post says jus for the sake of imagination!

Word.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

The point for alot of people is that in this presentation he appears to work best without an origin to make sense of his personality. It's part of the allure of a guy in clown paint, like what's his problem he has to do that? So if the original poster asks "what's the origin for Nolan Joker" and we say "I'd rather not know" that's not lazy or unimaginative. It's the deal for this presentation. Give him a story and the power of a guy who puts make-up on himself and wages war on city might fall to pieces.

yea i agree with you that maybe if we know why he is the way he is could damage the character mystery and menace. but what if the origin actually intensified this persons menace and evilness. similer to freddy kruger, if you didnt know he used to kidnap and rape children and cut them to ribbons you would fink hes just some crazy old burnt geezer who jus so happens to like stabbin people. but when you find out he done it to kids it deffinatly makes him more menacing and deffinatly leaves no room for sympathy.

 

[terry78]

It does make it a little more disturbing not to know, because it could have been one small thing that set him off, which makes you think anyone could become a Joker.

 

[ronny]

It does make it a little more disturbing not to know, because it could have been one small thing that set him off, which makes you think anyone could become a Joker.

But that whole idea is one of the weaker parts of The Killing Joke. Not everyone can become The Joker because The Joker is beyond conventional evil. he has reached the point where people like Lex Luthor or Two-Face are both disgusted by his actions and terrified of what he might do.
We've seen what happens when the average man gets pushed too far, it's a common theme in comic books. But this character goes beyond dressing up as a Scarecrow or flipping a coin. His level of degeneracy is such that there is no possible way he had all his dogs barking before he became the character we know.

 

[kid bosco]

I mentioned this in another thread so I will ask it again here, seeing that no one responded.

If the Joker was created in some way by the Mob, don't you think they would know who he was when he re-emerged as the Joker???

"Eh Ton, 'memeber that guy, Jack? Yeah, well he ain't dead! Looks like he wears clown makeup now, too haha!"

??

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I mentioned this in another thread so I will ask it again here, seeing that no one responded.

If the Joker was created in some way by the Mob, don't you think they would know who he was when he re-emerged as the Joker???

"Eh Ton, 'memeber that guy, Jack? Yeah, well he ain't dead! Looks like he wears clown makeup now, too haha!"

??

ye man thats a good point. but how do we know that they dont know who he is, we aint seen it yet after all. it could be when he resurfaces like that scene in the trailer when hes talking to all the mob bosses that they realise its him but thats why hes stolen their money. hes sorta holding the money ransom IMO. only he knows where it is and hes coming up with the plans to sort batman out so the mob cant really do anything about it.

 

[terry78]

edit

 

[Ace of Knaves]

not too sure. he probly is because his goons in the prologue refer to him as "the joker"

 

[CaptainClown]

I mentioned this in another thread so I will ask it again here, seeing that no one responded.

If the Joker was created in some way by the Mob, don't you think they would know who he was when he re-emerged as the Joker???

"Eh Ton, 'memeber that guy, Jack? Yeah, well he ain't dead! Looks like he wears clown makeup now, too haha!"

??

depends on how high up he was in the ranks. If he was like a lowely peon they probably have screwed over plenty of guys and couldn't even tell you the names of em.

 

[Crook]

Exactly.

Even if they knew who he was by name, doesn't mean they have a complete history on the guy. He could just as easily be an unknown.

Way too many variables.

 

[jgiant]

The best joker is the one with no origin, his mystery is one of the best parts of his character, i wish they just leave it at multiple choice.