The Dark Knight The Man Who Laughs: The Joker Thread 2.0

[C. Lee]

I suggest the petty sqabbling stops....after I have a chance to read the last few posts I may stop it the hard way for some of you.

 

[regwec]

In case you didn't notice, these are comic book characters, on a comic book based movie board. Interpretation or not, I'm coming from the background of reading the source material, not reworking the character to what I think makes him "kewl and serial killah Evil". The Joker hasn't changed that drastically over 70 years, and it's pretty obvious that "fans" like you will just move along to whatever floats your boat next when you find that the Joker is closer to what I know him as than the Crow/Marilyn Manson character with a butcher knife you see in your head.

Strong words, Nivek; not that I disagree entirely.

I think there are a lot of different "sub characters" within The Joker's broader "macro-character". Some of them are playful, some are amorous, some are feral, some are outrageously carnal. I think there is a tendency to misrepresent the character by stressing one at the expense of the others. For instance, "The Joker has always been a vagrant serial killer" vs "The Joker has always been a dapper raconteur with murder as a hobby". Both are accurate, but inaccurate if they exclude the other instance.

At this stage, it does seem likely that Ledger has managed to represent some elements of both sub characters.

Sadly, Nolan has forgotten to paint his neck, and crappified his makeup, which is a shame.

 

[ronny]

Okay, on the whole "Knife vs. Smilex" debate I just have to say that it's really not an issue. The Joker does seem to prefer his poison and that is an unalterable fact but we cannot say that knives are somehow uncharacteristic.
Perhaps he believes that he is a better class of criminal. But did that stop him from shooting a girl, undressing her and taking pictures of her naked, bloody body?
He's the lowest of the low and a knife seems to suit him, even in TAS he had a knife or a razor on occasion. But what I would have liked to see is him experimenting with his new poisons. I personally favour him having help in this department.
I read somewhere that the Joker Venom was created by a guy who Joker promised to "make handsome". Basically a fruitcake who could be taken advantage of. I'm not sure if I like him being a chemical genius or not, on the one hand it adds to his mystery and on the other it veers too close to the "chemical worker" backstory.
Whatever, I just wanted to see that warehouse scene, all those tramps and vagrants littering the place, their decomposed faces fixed in an agonised grin. It's just a shame that the art didn't match the story.

 

[MysterioMenace]

Personally all I needed was his sense of humor. I can look past the superficial stuff like the skin not being bleached. I was very concerned they’d make him overly-serious. I know I wasn’t alone. But in the end, the more they show, the more they've been putting humorous characteristics and dialogue on displayed. If he was just a straight-up homicidal maniac then I’d be ridiculously disappointed because that’s a very one-dimensional assessment of the Jokers character. It’s lacking the personality and charisma of the character. Murder doesn’t sum him up whatsoever. That's just what he does. It's how he murders that makes the Joker. Homicidal psychopaths are a dime a dozen in comic books. There isn’t anything inherently original about that. You must retain his sense of humor to make him unique, to keep him arguably the greatest comic book villain ever made. But naturally you cannot have him be a harmless trickster either. You must achieve that level of symmetry between clown and killer. I was once worried Nolan went too far with the dark, but now I see the jokes and gags immerging in newer clips. I’m very pleased.

 

[SHHSFW]

So would anyone be open to the idea of (should Joker be carted away to Arkham at the end of this one) it's revealed in the next that Heath's Joker was a puppet for the real joker, or a crazed acolyte of the real Joker who took the fall for Mr.J? This would allow for a seamless recasting (although, granted, may be a bit disrespectful to the Joker Heath created, as it makes him seem like a goon for the real deal.)

Anyway, related thought - would anyone be up for Daniel Day Lewis taking over the Joker role? He's said to be a huge fan of Heath's and this seems like the kind of character he could really sink his teeth into.

Joker: "I DRINK BATMAN'S MILKSHAKE!"

 

[regwec]

I just think they should recast it without explanation, other than maybe to show The Joker practically mummified in bandages at the start of the film. Physical and emotional changes would then be ascribed to physical trauma.

 

[Nightmare]

I just dont want johnny depp to be the joker.

 

[Anubis Raptor]

Personally all I needed was his sense of humor. I can look past the superficial stuff like the skin not being bleached. I was very concerned they’d make him overly-serious. I know I wasn’t alone. But in the end, the more they show, the more they've been putting humorous characteristics and dialogue on displayed. If he was just a straight-up homicidal maniac then I’d be ridiculously disappointed because that’s a very one-dimensional assessment of the Jokers character. It’s lacking the personality and charisma of the character. Murder doesn’t sum him up whatsoever. That's just what he does. It's how he murders that makes the Joker. Homicidal psychopaths are a dime a dozen in comic books. There isn’t anything inherently original about that. You must retain his sense of humor to make him unique, to keep him arguably the greatest comic book villain ever made. But naturally you cannot have him be a harmless trickster either. You must achieve that level of symmetry between clown and killer. I was once worried Nolan went too far with the dark, but now I see the jokes and gags immerging in newer clips. I’m very pleased.

Great post. Bleached skin was always a problem for me though.

To SHHSFW:

Daniel Day Lewis? Not a bad choice

 

[strider]

It's really a waste of time now reading these boards, all the kids crying about the non-bleached vs the make up is just lame and boring. I find it funny because all of you are STILL going to watch the movie and love it. Not like it matters but I'm done with these, "I've read all the important Joker comics 100 times and I know the real Joker more than any of you nubs!" TROLLS

Whine all you want but you'll be there opening day with your friends gobbling up popcorn, soda and TDK merchandise like the rest of us. So in the end, HeathJoker > you.

 

[regwec]

Actually, I'll be ruttin' on yo mama.

So there.

 

[Crook]

It's really a waste of time now reading these boards, all the kids crying about the non-bleached vs the make up is just lame and boring. I find it funny because all of you are STILL going to watch the movie and love it. Not like it matters but I'm done with these, "I've read all the important Joker comics 100 times and I know the real Joker more than any of you nubs!" TROLLS

Whine all you want but you'll be there opening day with your friends gobbling up popcorn, soda and TDK merchandise like the rest of us. So in the end, HeathJoker > you.

Maybe this post would have a point if the people arguing for the bleached skin ever stated that it would ruin the film for them, or that they would never see it solely because of it.

 

[TheBatman072]

So would anyone be open to the idea of (should Joker be carted away to Arkham at the end of this one) it's revealed in the next that Heath's Joker was a puppet for the real joker, or a crazed acolyte of the real Joker who took the fall for Mr.J? This would allow for a seamless recasting (although, granted, may be a bit disrespectful to the Joker Heath created, as it makes him seem like a goon for the real deal.)

Anyway, related thought - would anyone be up for Daniel Day Lewis taking over the Joker role? He's said to be a huge fan of Heath's and this seems like the kind of character he could really sink his teeth into.

Joker: "I DRINK BATMAN'S MILKSHAKE!"

Jesus Christ all ****ing mighty.

 

[Closerframe]

If the Joker were to be replaced I'd either accept Johnny Depp or Joseph Gordon-Levitt. I really don't want Daniel Day Lewis because he's to old. Johnny can achieve a young look just by shaving his beard. And Joseph looks a little bit like Heath and he has acting talents.

 

[Eggyman]

Recast Daniel Day Lewis?

The Real Joker?

 

[regwec]

Yeah, that would be pissing on Ledger's grave, somewhat.

Months ago I suggested that the percieved differences between the two Jokers, and the investigation into there identities, might be quite and interesting sub-plot.

 

[Crook]

People are riding on JGL solely because of his resemblance to Heath. Being a "good actor" isn't enough here. I'm a fan of his as well, but he doesn't have anywhere near the range or fearlessness that would be required to immerse yourself in this role.

With that said, of the "name" actors in the biz, Depp and DDL are definitely my top candidates. Age is certainly not a factor since that make-up creates an entirely new face anyway. I know for Heath, it added a couple of years to his face.

 

[Eggyman]

Depp's another great option. How cool would it be to have two great interpretations of the same character in the one franchise? It'd be very easy to see that as an upside spawned from a bad situation.

 

[regwec]

Absolutely.

 

[Anubis Raptor]

Yeah depp is definitely on the list.

 

[sandmjuggalos]

You must achieve that level of symmetry between clown and killer.

I now have a new addition to my sig thanks to you. That sums up the Joker for me.

 

[TheBat812]

People are riding on JGL solely because of his resemblance to Heath. Being a "good actor" isn't enough here. I'm a fan of his as well, but he doesn't have anywhere near the range or fearlessness that would be required to immerse yourself in this role.

With that said, of the "name" actors in the biz, Depp and DDL are definitely my top candidates. Age is certainly not a factor since that make-up creates an entirely new face anyway. I know for Heath, it added a couple of years to his face.

I'm personally sick of hearing their names. They're not the only two good actors out there, people. It's just ones we know. If there ever were a recast, it would be highly unlikely to be anybody we think of. Heath's casting is proof of that.

 

[X The Bends X]

did i miss something? whats with all the talk of recasting, joker eats it in the end dont he?

 

[strikezone89]

i would love to see depp cast for joker... that would be amazing

 

[Mr Bungle]

ITT we state someharsh truths:

Johnny Depp has been playing the same role for all of his recent movies.

What was Captain Jack doing in Sweeney Todd? Thats some poor acting there Mr Depp.

Seriously, Everyone wants Depp in every movie.

Overrated.

Get a real Actor, not a random popular one.

 

[Crook]

I don't even know what to say to that post.