The Dark Knight The Man Who Laughs: The Joker Thread 2.0

[terry78]

For those that have seen it, is Joker's overall motivation pretty on par with his character from the comics and tv shows for the most part, or was it not all that plausible?

 

[calibud]

For those that have seen it, is Joker's overall motivation pretty on par with his character from the comics and tv shows for the most part, or was it not all that plausible?

He has a much different motivation. He very badly wants the world to fit his own chaotic philosophy and he goes to disturbing lengths to prove that it's human nature to be cruel and to self-preserve. It more resembles the comics than anything done on TV or Batman 89. It's very plausible considering he's insane. He's a crazy person who sees the rest of the world as oblivious to its true nature.

 

[The Guard]

Sigh...

People, it's 2008. Can we stop acting "surprised" that The Joker is what he is in this movie? THE DARK KNIGHT features a darker, more sadistic, and frankly, probably more gruesome and scarier version of the character than BATMAN or any version of the character ever has. Great. This was a foregone conclusion the second the tone of BEGINS was apparent. Of course people are going to like it more than the slightly hammy version found in the past. I just find it hilarious that people act like this was unexpected on any level. It's like they want to point fingers and go "See! I told you!", as if anyone with a shred of intelligence actually believed the portrayal would not be somewhat interesting and relevant, and darker.

Nicholson was betrayed by the permanent grin. You can say he was comic accurate but The Joker doesn't smile all the time. What was Burton thinking? I still can't get my head around the stupidity of it.

Yes, we didn't get the Oscar winning acting trick of...wait for it, licking his lips and pursing them.

The fixed grin was an obvious reference to the fact that, for most of the Joker's comic book appearances, he appears to have a...wait for it...FIXED GRIN. This is true of almost any appearance after his first few.

And it works. And works well.

And yet we get a permanent grin and a magic gun capable of shooting down the Batplane!

It's an explosive shell. Why do you think the damn thing exploded?

He can deliver lines like "Kill the Batman" and not have to worry about looking stupid. But poor Jack Nicholson, remember the whole "Wait til they get a load of me" line? We see his eyes, pure evil and malice. And then, oh wait, he's still smiling.

You have got to be kidding me. That's the whole point. The whole point.

I never thought I'd see the day when people complained about the Joker smiling. As if the man somehow failed or was unable to emote because he had a "smile" on his face. Jack Nicholson did more with his eyes and minor use of his lower face in BATMAN than most actors will ever do.

And can I point something out? The "smile" on Ledger's Joker isn't going to help with his emoting much. The fact that he can still use his mouth doesn't change the fact that there's a massive, distracting smile on his face.

 

[mcallima]

Oh, what could have been. This would have looked ten times better and less horror movie cliche. *dodges the flame balls*

 

[Nivek]

Bringing age into the question is stupid. I'm against recasting, but to bring up the age thing is just stupid. He looks no older than Heath Ledger did.

No, whats stupid and borderline delusional is being blind to the fact that Depp is 44, and Heath was 28. A 16 year age difference. And yes, Depp's is looking closer to his age. Just because they were friends and he helped finish his Gilliam film doesn't mean he wants to walk in his socks as the Joker.

 

[SalaciousVC]

Oh, what could have been. This would have looked ten times better and less horror movie cliche. *dodges the flame balls*

How is the Joker "horror movie cliche"

 

[mcallima]

How is the Joker "horror movie cliche"

The chelsea grin schtick is becoming overused. Pet Cemetary, Ichi the Killer, Nip/Tuck, etc. Not to mention the misguided need to make the villain grungy.

 

[Bat-Mite]

Oh, what could have been. This would have looked ten times better and less horror movie cliche. *dodges the flame balls*

Reminds me of this:

 

[TheBatman072]

Reminds me of this:

Ha!

 

[Nepenthes]

The joker, geesus christ. Heath nailed it. in his own way. He is genuinely funny as well as intriguing and there were only a few moments where i felt it bordered on cheesy.

I don't agree with the people who say Heath "disapeared' though, not at all. I saw him the whole way through.

Any comparisons with Nicholson, good or bad, are ludicrous and pointless. This is a totally different movie in different time. end of subject for me.

The final scene with joker was amazing. Total geek-out. The Killing Joke is huge in this story.

I also really liked Jokers melody. Very haunting yet whimsical

 

[Crook]

Nep, did you see it through the viral marketing tickets? You lucky bastard.

 

[DOO BEE]

Australia had it released today... i just saw it..... ****ing fantastic! heath was amazing the whole damn cast was amazing! and i'm seeing it again last session tonight.. woot!

 

[ronny]

The fixed grin was an obvious reference to the fact that, for most of the Joker's comic book appearances, he appears to have a...wait for it...FIXED GRIN. This is true of almost any appearance after his first few.

The problem is that Burton claimed he used The Killing Joke as a source of some influence. Did he not see The Joker display a wide range of emtoions in that comic? Or did he not read the first appearance of the character in which he is sitting, tenting his fingers and not smiling at all?
There was no reason for that fixed grin. I honestly wonder if he did it simply to make Nicholson look ridiculous.

 

[ironwez20]

woah woah waoahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh how did you guys see this movie.

 

[d.k.]

I saw it though a contest on the cineplex.com website

 

[dlvillarreal]

Heath annihilated that role. It was amazing. I couldn't see it as Heath Ledger. I saw it as the Joker. I'm still out of breath thinking about it. Seeing it again Thursday at midnight. I'm even more excited to see it now!

 

[Shofie]

Heath was a-maz-ing. Seriously. Best Joker ever. (Although I'd love to see a Mark Hamil Joker that wasn't constricted by being in what is essentially a children's show. I love his Joker a lot.)

 

[Superhobo]

The problem is that Burton claimed he used The Killing Joke as a source of some influence. Did he not see The Joker display a wide range of emtoions in that comic? Or did he not read the first appearance of the character in which he is sitting, tenting his fingers and not smiling at all?

Actually, it's been stated in interviews that the entire film was primarily based, as well as Denny O' Neal's stuff and "The Killing Joke," on Kane's original run, before Robin.

You can actually read an entire list of the more obvious visual influences in the infamous "Is It Just Me or is Batman '89 Overrated" thread.

There was no reason for that fixed grin. I honestly wonder if he did it simply to make Nicholson look ridiculous.

Except that, as Guard mentioned, previous to the movie being released, for the majority of his appearances, the Joker had what resembled a fixed grin.

Jeesh. Also, why aren't you complaining about Heath's 'fixed grin?'

 

[ronny]

I'm starting to get angry.

 

[Conebone69]

Ledger is the BEST joker evah!

 

[laudanum09]

wow guys. is it just me, but (and this is a question for older fans) were you truly scared at some moments? Why So serious REALLY works in this film (the song). All of the 'stories' he tells, well it gets to be kind of a self-referential joke after a while once we find out what kind of a story-teller joker really is. But the first two (the later ones are different stories or a botched attempt at telling the scars joke) kind of scared the crap out of me. I had no idea what to expect.

I've seen plenty of horror films and psychological thrillers and jodorowsky flicks, but the sense of unease I felt in some of the scenes were really...well lets just say it impressed me, the film and Heath's ability to surmount all of my expectations.


and as a side note, doesn't pretty much ALL of the footage we've seen released online and in trailers completely do no justice to how great of an aesthetic treat we get with the joker? When Michale Caine mentioned the whole leprosy thing, its true. At least in IMax, his makeup looks really fantastic and creepy, like an old wall peeling paint. And he was a very sweaty man. I liked how he ACTUALLY would sweat through the makeup in some scenes.

I can't really stop at this point so I'll mention one more thing I loved. "Did your balls drop off?" The whole speech was just brilliant. Best 'mob intimidation' speech I've ever seen in a film. Pencil trick FTW.

 

[Saint]

Sigh...

People, it's 2008. Can we stop acting "surprised" that The Joker is what he is in this movie? THE DARK KNIGHT features a darker, more sadistic, and frankly, probably more gruesome and scarier version of the character than BATMAN or any version of the character ever has. Great. This was a foregone conclusion the second the tone of BEGINS was apparent. Of course people are going to like it more than the slightly hammy version found in the past. I just find it hilarious that people act like this was unexpected on any level. It's like they want to point fingers and go "See! I told you!", as if anyone with a shred of intelligence actually believed the portrayal would not be somewhat interesting and relevant, and darker.



Yes, we didn't get the Oscar winning acting trick of...wait for it, licking his lips and pursing them.

The fixed grin was an obvious reference to the fact that, for most of the Joker's comic book appearances, he appears to have a...wait for it...FIXED GRIN. This is true of almost any appearance after his first few.

And it works. And works well.



It's an explosive shell. Why do you think the damn thing exploded?



You have got to be kidding me. That's the whole point. The whole point.

I never thought I'd see the day when people complained about the Joker smiling. As if the man somehow failed or was unable to emote because he had a "smile" on his face. Jack Nicholson did more with his eyes and minor use of his lower face in BATMAN than most actors will ever do.

And can I point something out? The "smile" on Ledger's Joker isn't going to help with his emoting much. The fact that he can still use his mouth doesn't change the fact that there's a massive, distracting smile on his face.

I was going to respond, but then Guard went and made all my points for me. Sigh. B89 bashing depresses me.

 

[ronny]

89 bashing?
Read my lips: NICHOLSON WAS ROBBED.

 

[Saint]

89 bashing?
Read my lips: NICHOLSON WAS ROBBED.

Which is why I did not say "Nicholson bashing."

 

[CrimsonRed]

Sigh...

People, it's 2008. Can we stop acting "surprised" that The Joker is what he is in this movie? THE DARK KNIGHT features a darker, more sadistic, and frankly, probably more gruesome and scarier version of the character than BATMAN or any version of the character ever has. Great. This was a foregone conclusion the second the tone of BEGINS was apparent. Of course people are going to like it more than the slightly hammy version found in the past. I just find it hilarious that people act like this was unexpected on any level. It's like they want to point fingers and go "See! I told you!", as if anyone with a shred of intelligence actually believed the portrayal would not be somewhat interesting and relevant, and darker.
.

I may be the only one, but I didn't think he came off that much more sadistic than Jack's Joker.