The Dark Knight The Man Who Laughs: The Joker Thread 2.0

[Two-Face]

Yeah, very cool

 

[gwynplaine]

Heath is my favourite Joker ever. All media included. Then Kane's, Finger's and Robinson and then Bolland's.
I reread TKJ, the art is still amazing but the writing was better in my memory, maybe because in the meantime TDK has given me the most perfect relationship ever. I can understand now why Moore is now that fond of TKJ.
Ha anybody read The elseworld tale where Batman and Joker are pirates ? Man, that Joker was beautiful and very creepy, drawn by a great artist by the name of Alcatena.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Yup. The theory might have some validity if Joker's first "Look at me" wasn't so calmly delivered. But it didn't. He plainly states "look at me" like any normal person would. And gets no response. The only subtle hint here into Joker's psyche is his craving for attention and respect.

Brian refusing to look at him, thereby showing disinterest and respect, is an insult to Joker. Hence the repeating of his command, this time in a more forceful and shocking manner. Once he gets it, he starts to calm down and goes back to his playful mood. Notice how as Brian looks, there's that awkward pause. Seemingly Joker is assessing the situation and gaining his composure.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[gwynplaine]

Yup. The theory might have some validity if Joker's first "Look at me" wasn't so calmly delivered. But it didn't. He plainly states "look at me" like any normal person would. And gets no response. The only subtle hint here into Joker's psyche is his craving for attention and respect.

Brian refusing to look at him, thereby showing disinterest and respect, is an insult to Joker. Hence the repeating of his command, this time in a more forceful and shocking manner. Once he gets it, he starts to calm down and goes back to his playful mood. Notice how as Brian looks, there's that awkward pause. Seemingly Joker is assessing the situation and gaining his composure.

Excellent post, Crook.

 

[CaptainClown]

Yup. The theory might have some validity if Joker's first "Look at me" wasn't so calmly delivered. But it didn't. He plainly states "look at me" like any normal person would. And gets no response. The only subtle hint here into Joker's psyche is his craving for attention and respect.

Brian refusing to look at him, thereby showing disinterest and respect, is an insult to Joker. Hence the repeating of his command, this time in a more forceful and shocking manner. Once he gets it, he starts to calm down and goes back to his playful mood. Notice how as Brian looks, there's that awkward pause. Seemingly Joker is assessing the situation and gaining his composure.

See I see it as he was casually saying look at me and what he did to me and since Brian didn't as you said Joker screamed at him. Especially if Brian is trying to refuse to see what Batman has brought to gotham.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea I'm with Cap on this one, although Crook made some good points also. I think there is deffs more to it than just "oi look at me while i'm talking to ya!". He's trying to show Brian that the man he perhaps idolises (Batman) is what is wrong with Gotham, he is also trying to get the point across to the rest of Gotham. The "LOOK AT ME!!!" wasn't just aimed at Brian, it is a message to the rest of Gotham aswell. He's trying to make people have second thoughts about this "Batman". He seems to have succeeded in that mission.

 

[CaptainClown]

I think what also sold me in the belief that Batman is related to Joker's origin was the his lil "look at how crazy he has made gotham" lines at the end.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Interesting, maybe Joker was a victim himself? Maybe he could of been caught up in the fear toxin riots on the Narrows and hold Batman responsible? Maybe some nutcase who escaped from Arkham or someone under the influence of fear toxin slashed his face up or something like that.

 

[Crook]

See I see it as he was casually saying look at me and what he did to me and since Brian didn't as you said Joker screamed at him. Especially if Brian is trying to refuse to see what Batman has brought to gotham.

I'll point to how Heath delivered the line. It wasn't "Look at me", which would denote the meaning you are saying. But it was, "lookatme". No emphasis on any word, just plainly stated. That implies command. It's hard to explain it in words without actually verbally saying it to you. You get what I'm trying to get across, though?

Also, here's what's in the script:

VOICE [CONT'D)
Look at me.
(Brian looks down)
LOOK AT ME!

Again, I don't see anything there that would imply anything but a command that was ignored.
​

Yea I'm with Cap on this one, although Crook made some good points also. I think there is deffs more to it than just "oi look at me while i'm talking to ya!". He's trying to show Brian that the man he perhaps idolises (Batman) is what is wrong with Gotham, he is also trying to get the point across to the rest of Gotham. The "LOOK AT ME!!!" wasn't just aimed at Brian, it is a message to the rest of Gotham aswell. He's trying to make people have second thoughts about this "Batman". He seems to have succeeded in that mission.

This would apply to the section in which he focuses the camera on himself. That is where he's delivering the message to Gotham, and that is where he's showing Gotham the pandora's box thanks to Batman.

 

[gwynplaine]

One of the beauties of such a great multilayered masterpiece like TDK is that it can lend itself to a lot of different interpretations.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Check out this awesome Joker blog site

http://lovedatjoker.livejournal.com/

 

[gwynplaine]

The greasy long hair, the frock, the unkempt look and general savage behavior, am I the only one getting a Mr Hyde vibe from Heath in TDK ?
Probablyt:. Bruce is the angel and Joker is the beast.

 

[mrbrownie]

Check out this awesome Joker blog site

http://lovedatjoker.livejournal.com/

Checked it out, though too zealous and purist for my liking, she does has some good insights and interesting posts. (Though I'm lightly annoyed by her review for The Dark Knight, due to the fact she talks about issues already resolved in this boards, and citing them almost as facts.)

Anywho, really entertaining site, bookmarked!

 

[mrbrownie]

I'll point to how Heath delivered the line. It wasn't "Look at me", which would denote the meaning you are saying. But it was, "lookatme". No emphasis on any word, just plainly stated. That implies command. It's hard to explain it in words without actually verbally saying it to you. You get what I'm trying to get across, though?

Also, here's what's in the script:

VOICE [CONT'D)
Look at me.
(Brian looks down)
LOOK AT ME!

Again, I don't see anything there that would imply anything but a command that was ignored.
​

This would apply to the section in which he focuses the camera on himself. That is where he's delivering the message to Gotham, and that is where he's showing Gotham the pandora's box thanks to Batman.

I agree, I think that was just a logical step from the request to the command. And about the speech he gives to Gotham, I really don't think he means it as the real truth, he's just manipulating the people into chaos and paranoia, and that's what this Joker is all about, chaos, he just messes up with everyone, he know what to say and do to make it work, he doesn't MEAN anything, he KNOWS what to say. I really think the monologue to Batman at the interrogation room was again, another shot at manipulating emotions and ideas, as with Harvey in the hospital room. He's the perfect walking mindf-ck, when you see it, you'll shi+bricks!

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Hmmm I agree on some points. Yea he is just trying to cause chaos and paranoia. But I do think there is something human lurking beneath that killer clown exterior. When he screams "LOOK AT ME!!!" I sense pain in his voice, I don't think he put that on to get sympathy either. Just the way he screamed it had a touch of desperation to it IMO.

 

[mrbrownie]

Hmmm I agree on some points. Yea he is just trying to cause chaos and paranoia. But I do think there is something human lurking beneath that killer clown exterior. When he screams "LOOK AT ME!!!" I sense pain in his voice, I don't think he put that on to get sympathy either. Just the way he screamed it had a touch of desperation to it IMO.

Oh I agree, I'm not negating that it wasn't screamed with a sentiment of pain and anger, just that that anger and/or pain it's not deep, it's not from Joker's human core, if he has one, in which I agree with you that he has. There must be something humane even a little bit deep down there. But that's the awesomeness of TDK, leaves little details to own interpretations.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea definitely. Thats why I think Joker is the best villain in any medium, there is just so many layers and nuances, he would be impossible for a shrink to work with!

 

[I Am The Knight]

That's what they do. Some people kill lice, some people overanalyze movies.

Hahaha t:

 

[Schlosser85]

One of the great things about The Joker...he's so complex in some ways, yet completely enigmatic, so he's like a blank slate you can project your own thoughts onto.

 

[The Caped Knight]

I like this new shot of Mr. J

 

[gwynplaine]

"I think of Preacher as fatherless and motherless. In fact, I'm not certain he was even born out of a woman. Sometimes I think people like that aren't born at all, they're just suddenly materialized, they have no youth or anything."
Paul Gregory, producer of "Night of the hunter"(a movie I highly recommend to anyone who hasn't seen it and enjoyed Heath performance in TDK) talking about Robert Mitchum's character in the movie.
It reminded me of what Jonah Nolan said about the Joker "appearing out of thin air" on that sidewalk.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

"Look at me!" was pretty...freakin' terrifying.

It's like, even though you know he's a psychotic killer, it's very jarring to see him (or in this case, just hear him, which is so much more effective)get really angry. To catch a glimpse of that anger and hatred that boils beneath the humor.

Heath's Joker is an absolute riot. He's actually funny, whereas the comic version often is only funny to himself. So when the laughter stops, it gets especially unsettling.

His holding the knife to Rachel was really uncomfortable.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I like the way he always adds a "Hmm?" or an "huh?"

 

[RKO]

^I've noticed that too, he does the "hmm?" alot. lol

I love it.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

"Why don't you take of your little mask and show us all who you really are! Hmm? heha!"