The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

[Godzilla2014]

The idea of the cape itself turning into a glider probably originated with Batman Returns.

I remember this, but it's only used once and forgotten about.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Yeah I know. I just named TDK and Returns instead of having to name all four films.

Then why not just say "the Nolan films" and "the Burton films"?

Yeah. I was always under the impression that Christopher Nolan got the idea of the cape glider from Batman Returns. Just like the suit and the grappling gun.

Considering the comics that influenced his films, I think he just took the glider from Batman: Year One (not saying that was the first time Batman used a glider) and made it a function of the cape.

 

[Mister Meddle]

Yeah. I'm surprised that it's hardly mentioned.

Btw Payaso I think the glider and the cape are the same. Or at least it looks like it in this image.

I'd rather use a leathery cape/glider rather than a thin "memory cloth" that could easily get ripped.

 

[Mister Meddle]

Then why not just say "the Nolan films" and "the Burton films"?

They were used in the movies that I mentioned. It's not a big deal.

Considering the comics that influenced his films, I think he just took the glider from Batman: Year One (not saying that was the first time Batman used a glider) and made it a function of the cape.

That's possible. But the idea of the cape transforming into a glider was first used in Batman Returns. Just like Burton was the first one to introduce the grappling gun and the rubber armor suits. It isn't out of the ordinary for Nolan to borrow a couple of ideas from Burton. But there's nothing wrong with it. I'm sure the next Batman director will borrow a couple of ideas from Nolan.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Yeah. I'm surprised that it's hardly mentioned.

I think that's because people honestly don't remember that scene when they see the movie. I mean, Batman just stands on the edge of a rooftop, and all of the sudden, the glider just pops out.

Btw Payaso I think the glider and the cape are the same. Or at least it looks like it in this image.

If you look closely, next to Michael Keaton's left foot, you can see that he's still wearing the cape.

I'd rather use a leathery cape/glider rather than a thin "memory cloth" that could easily get ripped.

I think the memory cloth is probably more durable than it appears.

 

[Godzilla2014]

That's possible. But the idea of the cape transforming into a glider was first used in Batman Returns. Just like Burton was the first one to introduce the grappling gun and the rubber armor suits. It isn't out of the ordinary for Nolan to borrow a couple of ideas from Burton. But there's nothing wrong with it. I'm sure the next Batman director will borrow a couple of ideas from Nolan.

I'm not denying that Nolan took a few cues from Burton (the rubber armor, eye makeup, grapple gun, et cetera.), but I don't think that's where Nolan got the idea for the glider cape, even though it might be the first place the idea appeared.

 

[Mister Meddle]

I think that's because people honestly don't remember that scene when they see the movie. I mean, Batman just stands on the edge of a rooftop, and all of the sudden, the glider just pops out.

Well it was only used for one scene (in Batman Returns). In Batman Begins they analyzed the cape and they utilized it a bit more. Especially in The Dark Knight. But knowing how the hardcore fans have a tendency of noticing everything I'm kind of surprised that this hardly or ever gets mentioned.

If you look closely, next to Michael Keaton's left foot, you can see that he's still wearing the cape.

I knew somebody would point it out. It's something that you're not supposed to notice. In the picture it's supposed to look like it. I noticed it in the BR blu ray as well. But they're supposed to be the same piece. When Batman turns around, right before he glides off the building, you can notice that the cape isn't attached. If I must I'll make screen caps later.

I'm not denying that Nolan took a few cues from Burton (the rubber armor, eye makeup, grapple gun, et cetera.), but I don't think that's where Nolan got the idea for the glider cape, even though it might be the first place the idea appeared.

Maybe, but we don't know for sure. Not until it comes from the horse's mouth. But all what we can say is the idea of the cape transforming into a glider was first used in Batman Returns.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Well it was only used for one scene (in Batman Returns). In Batman Begins they analyzed the cape and they utilized it a bit more. Especially in The Dark Knight. But knowing how the hardcore fans have a tendency of noticing everything I'm kind of surprised that this hardly or ever gets mentioned.

Like I said, it's not a particularly memorable scene.

I knew somebody would point it out. It's something that you're not supposed to notice. In the picture it's supposed to look like it. I noticed it in the BR blu ray as well. But they're supposed to be the same piece. When Batman turns around, right before he glides off the building, you can notice that the cape isn't attached. If I must I'll make screen caps later.

Even when I watched the movie, it looks like the glider is just unfolding on his back, not like his cape is transforming into a glider. That's just my impression as a viewer.

Maybe, but we don't know for sure. Not until it comes from the horse's mouth. But all what we can say is the idea of the cape transforming into a glider was first used in Batman Returns.

True.

 

[Hellion]

Regarding the glider, am I the only one who gets a chill during that scene watching the wings unfold, its a scene of total Batman badassery, plus him gliding through the chaos of Gotham is just one of my favorite little moments of the film...

...doesn't Batman Returns turn the big 2-0...this year, I can't believe that much time has passed, this is one of the few films from my childhood I remember being so excited about (buying the toys, seeing it in theaters, buying it on video).......it never gets old, its one of the few films I can watch over and over (and for a matter of fact) I do.

 

[Mister Meddle]

Even when I watched the movie, it looks like the glider is just unfolding on his back, not like his cape is transforming into a glider. That's just my impression as a viewer.

You could see the glider going back to being a cape while he lands.

EDIT: It's a little hard to notice it in the image below but when he's about to hit the ground you could notice the glider begins to hang like a cape.

When he turns around notice how there is no cape hanging over the back of the glider.

 

[Mister Meddle]

Regarding the glider, am I the only one who gets a chill during that scene watching the wings unfold, its a scene of total Batman badassery, plus him gliding through the chaos of Gotham is just one of my favorite little moments of the film...

Same here. It's badass the way he walks to the edge of the balcony and out of nowhere the wings unfold. The score really enhanced the scene.

...doesn't Batman Returns turn the big 2-0...this year, I can't believe that much time has passed, this is one of the few films from my childhood I remember being so excited about (buying the toys, seeing it in theaters, buying it on video).......it never gets old, its one of the few films I can watch over and over (and for a matter of fact) I do.

Yup. It's still one of my favorite Batman films. IMO it aged quite well.

 

[GothamAlleys]

The idea of the cape itself turning into a glider probably originated with Batman Returns.

Thats something Ive been studying and trying to discover for few months now. It appears to be the case. So far Ive read every single comic with batman in it where he flies or glides, but he always uses like a parachute device or a cape of different material. I havent found any instance where the cape would change its consistency

The grappling hook gun tho has been confirmed 100% to originate from 89 movie

 

[Godzilla2014]

You could see the glider going back to being a cape while he lands.

EDIT: It's a little hard to notice it in the image below but when he's about to hit the ground you could notice the glider begins to hang like a cape.

When he turns around notice how there is no cape hanging over the back of the glider.

Alright then. You are correct. The transforming glider cape does seem to be more flexible in the Nolan films.

Interestingly, the idea was also used in the 2002 (also predating usage in the Nolan films of course) video game, Batman: Vengeance.

Thats something Ive been studying and trying to discover for few months now. It appears to be the case. So far Ive read every single comic with batman in it where he flies or glides, but he always uses like a parachute device or a cape of different material. I havent found any instance where the cape would change its consistency

The grappling hook gun tho has been confirmed 100% to originate from 89 movie

Thanks! Do you think that I'm right that Nolan's usage of the glider cape was inspired by the Bat-Glider in Batman: Year One?

 

[El Payaso]

Yeah. I'm surprised that it's hardly mentioned.

Btw Payaso I think the glider and the cape are the same. Or at least it looks like it in this image.

Oh, it absolutely is.

I meant that they were not the same in comics, previous to BR. My bad.

I remember this, but it's only used once and forgotten about.

It wasn't forgotten. Just not needed anymore. It's like discrediting the Hong Kong escape technique just because it was used just once (and forgotten about).

Alright then. You are correct. The transforming glider cape does seem to be more flexible in the Nolan films.

It doesn't look significantly flexible in any of the pictures execpet teh first which is not in the movie.

Thanks! Do you think that I'm right that Nolan's usage of the glider cape was inspired by the Bat-Glider in Batman: Year One?

Probably, but that rigid structure looks way more like BR's cape-glider.

 

[Godzilla2014]

It wasn't forgotten. Just not needed anymore. It's like discrediting the Hong Kong escape technique just because it was used just once (and forgotten about).

But the difference is that the Skyhook had a very specific purpose and only needed once. I can't help but wonder why Burtonverse Batman never used the transforming cape before. I don't know exactly, but it's just weird to me.

It doesn't look significantly flexible in any of the pictures execpet teh first which is not in the movie.

Sorry about that, I got carried away with the pictures.
A better example of the better flexibility, from the dock scene in Batman Begins:

Probably, but that rigid structure looks way more like BR's cape-glider.

That's why I thought the glider in Batman Returns was separate from the cape.

 

[GothamAlleys]

Do you think that I'm right that Nolan's usage of the glider cape was inspired by the Bat-Glider in Batman: Year One?

Still hard to tell definitely, but I would say personally that in 99% BR was the first to introduce cape changing consistency. The glider was used by Batman many, many, many times throughout history, but as far as I know it was ALWAYS a separate thing, it wasnt the regular cape hardening.

He might have draw inspiration from both year One and BR

 

[Godzilla2014]

Still hard to tell definitely, but I would say personally that in 99% BR was the first to introduce cape changing consistency. The glider was used by Batman many, many, many times throughout history, but as far as I know it was ALWAYS a separate thing, it wasnt the regular cape hardening.

He might have draw inspiration from both year One and BR

That also seems likely. Are you writing an article on the subject, by the way? You mentioned that you were doing research on Batman gliding/flying in your earlier post, so that made me curious.

 

[GothamAlleys]

I was doing research for it cause I wanted to make an article about all the homages to the past movies in Nolans movies, so I wanted to be 100% sure the idea of hardening cape originated in BR. I abandoned the idea when I just couldnt find back one quote from Nolan where he specifically states he took some ideas from the 89 movie - the idea of flashbacks instead of chronological story to be exact, but that was pivotal to show others that he WAS influenced by older movies as well

Without that quote I would be told its all coincidence so I wont even bother with it

 

[Godzilla2014]

I was doing research for it cause I wanted to make an article about all the homages to the past movies in Nolans movies, so I wanted to be 100% sure the idea of hardening cape originated in BR. I abandoned the idea when I just couldnt find back one quote from Nolan where he specifically states he took some ideas from the 89 movie - the idea of flashbacks instead of chronological story to be exact, but that was pivotal to show others that he WAS influenced by older movies as well

That sounds like it could have been an awesome article. Shame that you couldn't find that quote.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

The grappling hook gun tho has been confirmed 100% to originate from 89 movie

Batman did use a gun to shoot a rope attachment that hooked into a building in Miller's TDKR though.
But, no matter if it appeared in that book before or not, and no matter who directed the first serious live action Batman movie, they would have brought in the idea of a grappling hook gun.
The idea of him swinging around all the time on batarang thrown ropes was the kind of cb suspension of belief you couldn't bring to the movies really.

as for the cape becoming wings scene in Batman Returns...that to me was a bit like giving the Krypotonians new powers, that we never saw in the books before, in the Donner and Lester Superman films.
We have written Batman into this situation, and now to get him out of it, we unleash this new feature his costume has, that he never used before, or since. It looks very unconvincing and is not explained as to how it works, it just does.
It's a very different thing to bringing in the memory cloth idea to the Nolan films, which was thought through, explained in a smart sci-fi way, and was actually brought in as a new feature Batman's costume had, rather than a one-off notion they used to get him out of that situation in a way that looked cool.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

They could have just as easily had him use the grapple gun to get down, or any number of alternatives. I didn't have any trouble suspending disbelief that a bat-themed, high tech superhero would have a glider built into his cape/suit. To me, it's a piece of technology that really makes sense for Batman to have.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Batman did use a gun to shoot a rope attachment that hooked into a building in Miller's TDKR though.
But, no matter if it appeared in that book before or not, and no matter who directed the first serious live action Batman movie, they would have brought in the idea of a grappling hook gun.
The idea of him swinging around all the time on batarang thrown ropes was the kind of cb suspension of belief you couldn't bring to the movies really.

as for the cape becoming wings scene in Batman Returns...that to me was a bit like giving the Krypotonians new powers, that we never saw in the books before, in the Donner and Lester Superman films.
We have written Batman into this situation, and now to get him out of it, we unleash this new feature his costume has, that he never used before, or since. It looks very unconvincing and is not explained as to how it works, it just does.
It's a very different thing to bringing in the memory cloth idea to the Nolan films, which was thought through, explained in a smart sci-fi way, and was actually brought in as a new feature Batman's costume had, rather than a one-off notion they used to get him out of that situation in a way that looked cool.

I agree.

They could have just as easily had him use the grapple gun to get down, or any number of alternatives. I didn't have any trouble suspending disbelief that a bat-themed, high tech superhero would have a glider built into his cape/suit. To me, it's a piece of technology that really makes sense for Batman to have.

The with it to me, is that I start to think, "What other situations could that have been useful in?".

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

They could have just as easily had him use the grapple gun to get down, or any number of alternatives.

eh, not in that situation, the place was crawling with cops and townspeople who all wanted to get ahold of Batman as they thought he'd just killed the ice-princess.

I didn't have any trouble suspending disbelief that a bat-themed, high tech superhero would have a glider built into his cape/suit. To me, it's a piece of technology that really makes sense for Batman to have.

But because it was only used in that one scene, it was a bit of a deux ex machina device. Surely he would be using it to swoop around the city quite a bit in the film.
They didn't have Batman using it as a usual feature of his costume, like the memory cloth, presumably because it looked very unconvincing, I mean, it looks good, but unbelievable when it activates, but when he comes in to land, it doesn't even look good, it looks like he has a wooden board strapped to his back?!
They didn't do enough work on the concept for it to be properly integrated as a feature of his suit, because he didn't use it as such.
sure, they had the idea of turning his cape into a glider, fine, but it wasn't done in such a way as to be viable as a constant use in the movies.

 

[Godzilla2014]

eh, not in that situation, the place was crawling with cops and townspeople who all wanted to get ahold of Batman as they thought he'd just killed the ice-princess.



But because it was only used in that one scene, it was a bit of a deux ex machina device. Surely he would be using it to swoop around the city quite a bit in the film.
They didn't have Batman using it as a usual feature of his costume, like the memory cloth, presumably because it looked very unconvincing, I mean, it looks good, but unbelievable when it activates, but when he comes in to land, it doesn't even look good, it looks like he has a wooden board strapped to his back?!
They didn't do enough work on the concept for it to be properly integrated as a feature of his suit, because he didn't use it as such.
sure, they had the idea of turning his cape into a glider, fine, but it wasn't done in such a way as to be viable as a constant use in the movies.

Exactly. That's why I thought of it as just a glider, not his cape.

 

[Mister Meddle]

Batman did use a gun to shoot a rope attachment that hooked into a building in Miller's TDKR though.
But, no matter if it appeared in that book before or not, and no matter who directed the first serious live action Batman movie, they would have brought in the idea of a grappling hook gun.
The idea of him swinging around all the time on batarang thrown ropes was the kind of cb suspension of belief you couldn't bring to the movies really.

They would have brought up the idea...... you're just speculating. If the rope to the Batarang is considered too unrealistic for live action then they could easily put Batman in situations where it isn't needed. Sounds more like "stop giving Burton the damn credit, somebody else would've brought it up". It's pretty safe to say that Nolan did get the idea of a portable grappling gun from the Burton Batman movies. We could twist things all night but the fact is quite obvious.

But because it was only used in that one scene, it was a bit of a deux ex machina device. Surely he would be using it to swoop around the city quite a bit in the film.
They didn't have Batman using it as a usual feature of his costume, like the memory cloth, presumably because it looked very unconvincing, I mean, it looks good, but unbelievable when it activates, but when he comes in to land, it doesn't even look good, it looks like he has a wooden board strapped to his back?!
They didn't do enough work on the concept for it to be properly integrated as a feature of his suit, because he didn't use it as such.
sure, they had the idea of turning his cape into a glider, fine, but it wasn't done in such a way as to be viable as a constant use in the movies.

as for the cape becoming wings scene in Batman Returns...that to me was a bit like giving the Krypotonians new powers, that we never saw in the books before, in the Donner and Lester Superman films.
We have written Batman into this situation, and now to get him out of it, we unleash this new feature his costume has, that he never used before, or since. It looks very unconvincing and is not explained as to how it works, it just does.
It's a very different thing to bringing in the memory cloth idea to the Nolan films, which was thought through, explained in a smart sci-fi way, and was actually brought in as a new feature Batman's costume had, rather than a one-off notion they used to get him out of that situation in a way that looked cool.

The only reason you're saying it isn't "realistic" is because it wasn't analyzed. I thought it looked MUCH more convincing as a glider than the Nolan/Bale "memory cloth". I can't imagine ANYONE depending their own life on a thin cloth and performing flashy stunts through skyscrapers. What's my point? It's just a movie! You're supposed to suspend disbelief. Some of my favorite movies have unusual things that could never be used in real life. But I don't go on the internet and say "it's silly because it isn't realistic nor was it thought out well enough". No matter what you're always going to have accessories that are a bit exaggerated or unbelievable in Batman movies. It would be just as silly as someone saying "the cell phone thing/the lenses from TDK was stupid because it was too unrealistic" or "the ending of BB was stupid because the microwave emitter was too silly nor was it thought out well enough". How could the cape "harden up"? People were probably wondering the same thing before they went to see Batman Begins back in 2005. Leave "teh analyzing" or "teh realism" for reality, not fiction. Unless it's on the level of the Batskates or Batcreditcard.

That was the only situation where Batman needed to use the glider in Batman Returns. The only other time I could think of is where he used the line launcher in the Penguin's lair. However there wasn't enough height to get the perfect landing. My guess is it's only used to escape from high buildings. Regardless of that it doesn't mean it was the only time it was ever used during Batman's career. It was obvious that he knew how to use it.

As for the rough landing.... do you ever see people landing with a parachute from sky diving? The rough roll obviously worked for Batman and he didn't show any signs of pain from the landing. I don't understand the problem there.