The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 4

[Silver Spider]

Because boxers today are all divas and don't make fights that people ask for. They all have certain fights they want and until they get them they will ignore anyone else anyone cares about. I still do not believe GGG has any trouble with Lara, who wastes a lot of movement and has a one dimensional offense.

Canelo is absolutely not tailor-made for the GGG we saw today. Brook fought exactly the way Canelo loves to; small steps back to set up counter punches and combinations. Golovkin wants fighters to get on their bicycle against him.

 

[Docker2.0]

Agreed. I think Canelo/Golovkin fight is more doable than Golovkin/Ward. Ward has moved up to Light Heavy and he's facing that other cold mofo in Kovalev. So that fight is long gone I think.

Nah it's still doable at 168. Ward just needs to get off his high horse and meet halfway. GGG is going to HAVE to go up sooner or later and if Ward wants a pay day, he needs to meet halfway. That fight is going to have to happen, especially if both fighters want to get paid after Canelo and kovalev so it's a matter of if, not when. It's the new Manny/Mayweather.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Said it before and I will say it again, a boxer with movement, like a Lara would beat GGG. Brook had moments where GGG was dazed and he may deny it but clearly hurt. And this is a welterweight. No question Ward would absolutely dominate this guy. This is why people say he's overrated. Not saying he's not good but he is clearly overrated. There! I said it!

Come at me bro!

And like usual, you are wrong about GGG. But I am use to your hating on him. Lara style is nothing like Brook's, who had all his success going forward, standing his ground. And he still got beat up. Fighting on your backfoot consistently against GGG is a death sentence.

Ward is fighting at 175 now. You do realize that is an even bigger jump then Brook made tonight right?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Nah it's still doable at 168. Ward just needs to get off his high horse and meet halfway. GGG is going to HAVE to go up sooner or later and if Ward wants a pay day, he needs to meet halfway. That fight is going to have to happen, especially if both fighters want to get paid after Canelo and kovalev so it's a matter of if, not when. It's the new Manny/Mayweather.

GGG weighed in less then Brook tonight. Why would he need to ever move up? He was over a pound below the limit at the weigh-ins. Again what are you talking about?

 

[Docker2.0]

Because boxers today are all divas and don't make fights that people ask for. They all have certain fights they want and until they get them they will ignore anyone else anyone cares about. I still do not believe GGG has any trouble with Lara, who wastes a lot of movement and has a one dimensional offense.

Canelo is absolutely not tailor-made for the GGG we saw today. Brook fought exactly the way Canelo loves to; small steps back to set up counter punches and combinations. Golovkin wants fighters to get on their bicycle against him.

GGG prefers guys to stand in front of him. He knows guys are hurt when they run. Canelo is tailor made for GGG. Brook hurt GGG a couple of times so I tend to think Canelo could as well. Even though Lara got hurt by Angulo, I still think Lara could school GGG. Would I bet on it? No, but people saying GGG is a guarantee to beat Lara are crazy. There's a reason why his camp avoids certain guys, even though they called these guys out.

 

[Docker2.0]

And like usual, you are wrong. Lara style is nothing like Brook's, who had all his success going forward, standing his ground. And he still got beat up. Fighting on your backfoot against GGG is a death sentence.

Ward is fighting at 175 now. You do realize that is an even bigger jump then Brook made tonight right?

Doesn't matter, he jumped up TWO weight classes. All people are asking GGG is to move up one. I guess you speak straight science when it comes to boxing. edit. Not worth it.

GGG weighed in less then Brook tonight. Why would he need to ever move up? He was over a pound below the limit at the weigh-ins. Again what are you talking about?

GGG looked sick AF at the weigh in. Was he sick? GGG himself said he wasn't. But yet, people still GIVE him excuses.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Because boxers today are all divas and don't make fights that people ask for. They all have certain fights they want and until they get them they will ignore anyone else anyone cares about. I still do not believe GGG has any trouble with Lara, who wastes a lot of movement and has a one dimensional offense.

Canelo is absolutely not tailor-made for the GGG we saw today. Brook fought exactly the way Canelo loves to; small steps back to set up counter punches and combinations. Golovkin wants fighters to get on their bicycle against him.

The big difference between Canelo's style and Brook's style is speed and footwork. Canelo is actually rather slow.

I also disagree on what GGG likes in his fights. He prefers people who stand and trade so he doesn't have to do the work of chasing them. His trainer pointed out tonight he seemed way to eager to get Brook out early, and that led to the wildness, the chasing and potential adrenaline dump. It is worse to run from GGG, but GGG also prefers his opponents to stand and trade. He then doesn't have to waste the energy chasing them and can pick his shots.

Someone won't win backing off against GGG, because you will never land enough. But they have a better chance of surviving. You can theoretically beat him trading, but there is a much higher chance of the guy going out early.

 

[Silver Spider]

I don't know what to tell you, but you're wrong Docker. Golovkin loves it when someone like Murray or Monroe tries to just move around the ring, where he can cut them off and set up counter punches to the body.

Willie had success when he stood his ground against GGG and outworked him on the inside. Kell stood his ground and landed good combinations to push GGG back. I thought Golovkin even looked uncomfortable when Rubio tried pushing him back in the first round of their fight. Kassim Ouma, which is still GGG's toughest fight to date, roughed him up on the inside.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Doesn't matter, he jumped up TWO weight classes. All people are asking GGG is to move up one. I guess you speak straight science when it comes to boxing. edit. Not worth it.

A guy moving down doesn't suddenly mean he isn't a much bigger fighter, but of course you will ignore that.

GGG looked sick AF at the weigh in. Was he sick? GGG himself said he wasn't. But yet, people still GIVE him excuses.

Legit guys don't make excuses. GGG very well could have been sick, but he won't say it. It is not a weight thing. He was coming in at something like 166 three weeks out. I believe he weighed in at 158.6 for the fight. He made the weight easily. If anything this is more of an indication that he was sick, because he dropped an excess amount of weigh do to an illness. But I don't know what his others numbers where/are so I cannot say.

 

[Docker2.0]

I don't know what to tell you, but you're wrong Docker. Golovkin loves it when someone like Murray or Monroe tries to just move around the ring, where he can cut them off and set up counter punches to the body.

Willie had success when he stood his ground against GGG and outworked him on the inside. Kell stood his ground and landed good combinations to push GGG back. I thought Golovkin even looked uncomfortable when Rubio tried pushing him back in the first round of their fight. Kassim Ouma, which is still GGG's toughest fight to date, roughed him up on the inside.

I understand your point. We agree to disagree but I get your point. GGG just may have a weakness to inside fighting.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don't know what to tell you, but you're wrong Docker. Golovkin loves it when someone like Murray or Monroe tries to just move around the ring, where he can cut them off and set up counter punches to the body.

Willie had success when he stood his ground against GGG and outworked him on the inside. Kell stood his ground and landed good combinations to push GGG back. I thought Golovkin even looked uncomfortable when Rubio tried pushing him back in the first round of their fight. Kassim Ouma, which is still GGG's toughest fight to date, roughed him up on the inside.

What is funny is that outside of Murray, none of these guys lasted past the 7th. Those that stood and traded for any real length of time ended up finished rather quickly. Think about it, Brook did "very good tonight" and his corner had to end it in the 5th because standing and trading ended up with him being beaten up to the body and head.

A fighter has a better shot of beating GGG standing and getting on the inside, but it also presents the possibility of it ending quickly.

 

[Silver Spider]

The big difference between Canelo's style and Brook's style is speed and footwork. Canelo is actually rather slow.

I also disagree on what GGG likes in his fights. He prefers people who stand and trade so he doesn't have to do the work of chasing them. His trainer pointed out tonight he seemed way to eager to get Brook out early, and that led to the wildness, the chasing and potential adrenaline dump. It is worse to run from GGG, but GGG also prefers his opponents to stand and trade. He then doesn't have to waste the energy chasing them and can pick his shots.

Someone won't win backing off against GGG, because you will never land enough. But they have a better chance of surviving. You can theoretically beat him trading, but there is a much higher chance of the guy going out early.

Canelo's handspeed is pretty good, but yeah, Brook has faster feet. Someone who is as good in the pocket as GGG, naturally likes it when someone just stands in place and basically let's him hit them. But he doesn't like it when the other fighter tries to push him back. It worked against Lemieux because his offense is fairly limited outside of his power, but typically pressing GGG is relatively better strategically.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Canelo's handspeed is pretty good, but yeah, Brook has faster feet. Someone who is as good in the pocket as GGG, naturally likes it when someone just stands in place and basically let's him hit them. But he doesn't like it when the other fighter tries to push him back. It worked against Lemieux because his offense is fairly limited outside of his power, but typically pressing GGG is relatively better strategically.

I agree it is a better strategy. I am not disagreeing with your premise for beating GGG. If or when someone finally beats GGG it will be trading on the inside imo. And no one likes being "pushed". But in terms of what I believe GGG prefers, it is someone who will stay close as opposed to someone who runs. He has spent numerous fights trying to entice his opponent's into trading.

I feel like he should prefer those on the bike who eventually tire and he just handles on the ropes, because it is less risk. But that doesn't seem to be his style.

I remember after the Murray fight how he mentioned the pressure of the KO streak. I wonder how much that has to do with it. The expectations that he needs to do the spectacular and get his opponent out of there. I was really bothered with the big, wild, wide shots tonight. Even my brother mentioned it early.

 

[Silver Spider]

I understand your point. We agree to disagree but I get your point. GGG just may have a weakness to inside fighting.

I think GGG is technically sound on the inside, but he gets outworked when he's there. He doesn't look comfortable when a guy is that close to him.

What is funny is that outside of Murray, none of these guys lasted past the 7th. Those that stood and traded for any real length of time ended up finished rather quickly. Think about it, Brook did "very good tonight" and his corner had to end it in the 5th because standing and trading ended up with him being beaten up to the body and head.

A fighter has a better shot of beating GGG standing and getting on the inside, but it also presents the possibility of it ending quickly.

Strategically it works to try to push back GGG, but it is much easier said than done tactically.
​

 

[DarthSkywalker]

GGG doesn't really utilize and uppercut and does like a little distance to work. He definitely won't do great in a phone booth.

 

[Silver Spider]

I agree it is a better strategy. I am not disagreeing with your premise for beating GGG. If and when someone finally beats GGG it will be trading on the inside imo. And no one likes being "pushed". But in terms of what I believe GGG prefers, it is someone who will stay close as opposed to someone who runs. He has spent numerous fights trying to entice his opponent's into trading.

I feel like he should prefer those on the bike who eventually tire and he just handles on the ropes, because it is less risk. But that doesn't seem to be his style.

I remember after the Murray fight how he mentioned the pressure of the KO streak. I wonder how much that has to do with it. The expectations that he needs to do the spectacular and get his opponent out of there. I was really bothered with the big, wild, wide shots tonight. Even my brother mentioned it early.

Ultimately nobody wants to fight someone who constantly moves the entire fight, because you would never be able to mount an offense against them. But like you said, Golovkin likes it when they run and waste energy so he can set punches up better. And against GGG's style if you only move you will get tired no matter how good of shape you are in.

I agree, the wild shots looked very bad for GGG. One thing I've always liked about Golovkin was his balance; I've never seen him miss so wildly before. Even when he was missing shots some wide shots against Geale, he always stayed balanced and was able to continue his offense without resetting.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Ultimately nobody wants to fight someone who constantly moves the entire fight, because you would never be able to mount an offense against them. But like you said, Golovkin likes it when they run and waste energy so he can set punches up better. And against GGG's style if you only move you will get tired no matter how good of shape you are in.

I agree, the wild shots looked very bad for GGG. One thing I've always liked about Golovkin was his balance; I've never seen him miss so wildly before. Even when he was missing shots some wide shots against Geale, he always stayed balanced and was able to continue his offense without resetting.

Why do you think he was doing that tonight? Comparison to Canelo against Khan? If he was sick, trying to end it early to avoid tiring?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I am curious. Ward has had 4 fights since 2012, all cans, but he get the benefit of the doubt, when he can't even get these guys out of there. Brook is probably a proper 154 guy, and he is very skilled. GGG got him out of there, and in less then half a fight. But people who want to put Ward #1 at P4P ignore who he fights and how he beats them.

 

[Silver Spider]

Why do you think he was doing that tonight? Comparison to Canelo against Khan? If he was sick, trying to end it early to avoid tiring?

Ultimately, I think this fight was similar to Canelo-Khan. The bigger, harder puncher broke down the smaller fighter.​

I wouldn't be surprised if he was actually sick. He seemed very impatient, especially after Kell had that great second round.​

​

The crowd may have also been a factor; those UK crowds are always really hyped during the big name fights.​

 

[DarthSkywalker]

​

Ultimately, I think this fight was similar to Canelo-Khan. The bigger, harder puncher broke down the smaller fighter.​

I wouldn't be surprised if he was actually sick. He seemed very impatient, especially after Kell had that great second round.​

​

The crowd may have also been a factor; those UK crowds are always really hyped during the big name fights.​

I both love and hate British crowds. I love how crazy they are, but they take losses so bad.

 

[Silver Spider]

I am curious. Ward has had 4 fights since 2012, all cans, but he get the benefit of the doubt, when he can't even get these guys out of there. Brook is probably a proper 154 guy, and he is very skilled. GGG got him out of there, and in less then half a fight. But people who want to put Ward #1 at P4P ignore who he fights and how he beats them.

They still give him the benefit of the doubt from the Super Six and the dismantling of Chad Dawson. Ward is still a great fighter, but truthfully he hasn't fought anyone of note, since he's come back. That last fight was awful, but it is very possible he could do the same thing to Kovalev.

 

[Silver Spider]

I both love and hate British crowds. I love how crazy they are, but they take losses so bad.

"THERE'S ONLY ONE, RICKY HATTON."

That still gets stuck in my head sometimes.

The British crowds are always really exciting, and that's just through a screen.

 

[Docker2.0]

Roy Jones has spoken! But yet, people will find a reason to knock him for saying this.


http://fighthype.com/news/article26075.html

 

[LoganGambit87]

in the future yes but let the man fight canelo first so he can make some money

 

[Docker2.0]

in the future yes but let the man fight canelo first so he can make some money

That Canelo fight is not guaranteed at this point. GGG is slowing down whether people want to believe it or not. I've always said he's been easy to hit and had he been in there with a power puncher, he may not have made it out of that fight. He has no head movement. If he was to fight Canelo, I do think it will do well, just like Ward/Kovalev is going to do well. It's a fight that pure boxing fans want to see. Plus Ward/GGG is the new Mayweather/Pacquaio argument. If the fight was to take place, let it take place at 168. It's fair to both fighters. Kovalev/GGG ain't never happening.