Gotham The Official Gotham News and discussion thread - Part 3

[Kathemy]

I sort of see his point, though.

 

[WeatherWizard99]

so I am guessing those are tweedledee and tweedledum

 

[Kathemy]

Btw what is it with David's face paint over the right eye?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I sort of see his point, though.

*watches Daredevil, Jessica Jones and the first season of the Flash*

Yeah, I don't see his point at all.

On another note, I am watching season 2. I jumped off early last year, but decided, "Why not". Why in the hell would Jim ever name his daughter Barbara, How can Bruce "fire" his guardian, and when did Jim's actor decide he just wasn't going to try anymore?

 

[Kathemy]

The mask is not what's important. The character is. This is what I feel is the geist of that sentiment.

Take care, Gothamites.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The mask is not what's important. The character is. This is what I feel is the geist of that sentiment.

Take care, Gothamites.

I didn't get that at all. But even on that point, we are talking about superheroes. Being superheroes is what is a bi part of these characters. You can't divorce Bruce Wayne from being Batman or Peter Parker from being Spider-Man. It is integral to what they are.

 

[LeagueOfBats]

so I am guessing those are tweedledee and tweedledum

Looks more like Thing 1 and Thing 2, tbh

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Promotional poster for the third season of Gotham.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

‘Gotham’ Season 3 “Mad City” Trailer released.

http://heroichollywood.com/gotham-season-3-trailer-released/

 

[PretenderNX01]

*watches Daredevil, Jessica Jones and the first season of the Flash*

Daredevil and Jessica Jones are structured like a miniseries and made available to be consumed all at once. I don't think either would be what they are on a week to week basis which is what Gotham is and as you point out Flash- but in naming only Flash I'm going to point out that you missed DC's 3 other shows now on CW So maybe he's wrong that it never works as more like it rarely works on network. Like- once.

 

[Hunter Rider]

‘Gotham’ Season 3 “Mad City” Trailer released.

http://heroichollywood.com/gotham-season-3-trailer-released/

Couple of interesting heads popped up in that.

 

[DigificWriter]

Why do so many people care about Bruno Heller's opinion on the "superhero television" genre?

I really wish Gotham Season 2 was debuting on Netflix BEFORE the start of Season 3 instead of the day after, just because I really want to at least make an attempt to stay current with Gotham this time around even though I can't watch it LIVE due to conflicts with other things (Supergirl).

 

[Lencho01]

[YT]1sTA8BB1Uwo[/YT]

 

[Hunter Rider]

Talon?

 

[Omegabat]

I didn't get that at all. But even on that point, we are talking about superheroes. Being superheroes is what is a bi part of these characters. You can't divorce Bruce Wayne from being Batman or Peter Parker from being Spider-Man. It is integral to what they are.

He wasn't allowed to make a proper Batman show but instead forced to make this abortion, now his conscience is trying to convince him that what he's making is legit and good.
He's really just reassuring himself, see he just made a Batman show without Batman, ergo superheroes totally unnecessary.

 

[Kathemy]

He wasn't allowed to make a proper Batman show but instead forced to make this abortion, now his conscience is trying to convince him that what he's making is legit and good.
He's really just reassuring himself, see he just made a Batman show without Batman, ergo superheroes totally unnecessary.

Apart from being nonsense this is also what's normally referred to as an unqualified bash which is extremely poor form in a forum devoted to the show you are discussing.

In its best moments Gotham is superior to every superhero show on television. We'll see if they can manage to rebound from the catastrophic decision to recast Poison Ivy.

 

[Omegabat]

Apart from being nonsense this is also what's normally referred to as an unqualified bash which is extremely poor form in a forum devoted to the show you are discussing.

In its best moments Gotham is superior to every superhero show on television. We'll see if they can manage to rebound from the catastrophic decision to recast Poison Ivy.

It's not non sense, Batman is a superhero, he's making a show on that character's world. He's using super villains, even outlandish ones that no one expected, the only character he isn't using is Batman himself. He's trying to justify the existence of a Batman show that has everyone but Batman himself, this is what he means by "super heroes are unnecessary". If you like it's well and good from my side but dont try to sugar coat his words, he's perfectly welcome to make a proper police procedural show about Gordon dealing with crime and corruption if he thinks super is too hokey. No one asked him to bring Mr Freeze or Solomon Grundy.

 

[Guts]

He wasn't allowed to make a proper Batman show but instead forced to make this abortion, now his conscience is trying to convince him that what he's making is legit and good.
He's really just reassuring himself, see he just made a Batman show without Batman, ergo superheroes totally unnecessary.

Bruno Heller wasn't forced to make this show a Batman prequel, that was his own choice. This is an interview from May 2014 before the show aired.

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: My assumption has been that the reason this TV show can be done – rights-wise – is because Batman himself is not in it. That way, it doesn’t overlap with any films. Is that correct?
BRUNO HELLER: Certainly from Warner Bros. and DC’s business point of view, that’s why it can be done. For me, if they said, “Do Batman,” I would have said, “No.” I would have not been interested at all. I don’t think Batman works very well on TV – to have people behind masks. Frankly, all those superhero stories I’ve seen, I always love them until they get into the costume. And then it’s, “Oh, okay, they’ve ascended, they’ve stopped becoming humans.” It’s their apotheosis. They go to heaven and they’re Superman. There have been so many great versions of it. This is a version of something else entirely.

How did you first become involved?
Junior’s Deli in Burbank. I sat with [Warner Bros. President and COO Peter Roth and Warner Bros. TV development chief Susan Rovner] about what to do next. I’ve been talking to Geoff Johns at DC for a few years about wanting to do something in the DC canon. I came in to pitch the idea that we’re doing, essentially, and they came to pitch me the same thing. The nut of the idea was: What if young James Gordon was the detective who investigated the murder of Bruce Wayne’s parents? And once you make that connection, it opened up a whole world of storytelling that we realized hadn’t really been looked at before, which is the world before Batman – the world of Gotham, young Bruce Wayne, and young James Gordon and the origin stories of the villains.

 

[Guts]

It honestly seems like Heller is a fan of the superhero genre but he's not a fan of superheroes. It's probably why the villains are more prominent in this show.

 

[Kathemy]

It's not non sense

It's nonsense that he was forced and it's a unqualified bash to claim the show to be an abortion.

Apart from that claiming that you have some special insight into the mind of Bruno Heller is an unfounded allegation.

It's enough to take him on his words to come up with a fully consistent explanation. He wants the show to be "both real and unreal". He intentionally chooses the "normal guy" as the protagonist of the show. The dialectical contradiction between Bruce Wayne and the Batman persona is displayed in its nascency through a psychological narrative as opposed to through imagery. This creates a grounded and complex character suitable to carrying more screentime later on.

Less focus on the masks, more focus on the people behind them.

I am not saying the show is entirely successful in this regard since you only need to check how they dropped the ball with Mr Freeze, but this is clearly what Bruno is going for. I wouldn't be surprised to find out there is some sort of creative power struggle going on here.

 

[Omegabat]

It honestly seems like Heller is a fan of the superhero genre but he's not a fan of superheroes. It's probably why the villains are more prominent in this show.

That makes no sense, he has a problem with people in tights saving lives but has no problem with people in tights taking them? the villains are prominent because the lead actor is as dull as a plank. When Taylor, Corey and Wong are running circles around you it's kind off hard not to give them more screen time.

 

[Omegabat]

It's nonsense that he was forced and it's a unqualified bash to claim the show to be an abortion.

Apart from that claiming that you have some special insight into the mind of Bruno Heller is an unfounded allegation.

It's enough to take him on his words to come up with a fully consistent explanation. He wants the show to be "both real and unreal". He intentionally chooses the "normal guy" as the protagonist of the show. The dialectical contradiction between Bruce Wayne and the Batman persona is displayed in its nascency through a psychological narrative as opposed to through imagery. This creates a grounded and complex character suitable to carrying more screentime later on.

Less focus on the masks, more focus on the people behind them.

I am not saying the show is entirely successful in this regard since you only need to check how they dropped the ball with Mr Freeze, but this is clearly what Bruno is going for. I wouldn't be surprised to find out there is some sort of creative power struggle going on here.

Less focus on the masks? are you kidding me? there are no masks in this show to even begin with and the characters who are supposed to be wearing them eventually are already acting like masks. Take Selina ,she is Catwoman period, there is no effort being put on exploring her character behind the mask. Everything she does is something an adult Catwoman would do except as a pre teen. Then you have Poison Ivy, yeah not touching that one.
Batman is also a normal guy so even that line of thinking falls apart, he's certainly more normal than Azrael,Freeze and Clayface. So it's clear that Heller doesn't have a problem with all those fantastical elements that others shy away from. No his problem is specifically with the hero of this myth, Batman himself,a character he cant use but whose myth he is allowed to use. So he's justifying his bizarre concept with "super heroes are totally unnecessary". You dont need special insight in to his brain to see that.

 

[Kathemy]

~snip~

Come to think about it, I'm not going to waste my time getting through to a hater lying about Gotham's younger cast being "pre-teens".

Shame.

 

[Ozbridge]

A few days ago several sites reported the news about Bruce and Selina's relationship will be "taken to the new level" and predictably in the comment section there were a bunch of people claiming "Bruce is, like, twelve". No, I don't make it up, there're actually people out there still thinking Bruce is 12, so that's why they think they can spout the word "pre-teen" everywhere, and seriously this is the criticism that I hate the most.

Like, if everyone knows that Bruce is 12 in the pilot (actually there're various articles saying he's 13, but let's stick with 12 here), then 2 seasons later people can just do simple math 12 + 2 = 14. If he's 14 in Season 3 then the word "pre-teen" can't be applied to him.

And if people actually watch the show then in 2x14 Bruce actually said his parents were killed "2 years ago". So by 2x14 (not 3x01) 2 years has passed. Then there was Gordon's trial (which lasted 4 weeks), Gordon in Blackgate (for 1 or 2 months) then transferred to another prison. So even casual viewer should know that Season 3 is well over 2 years after the pilot.

And if people actually care to read occasional news about the show (I don't expect casual viewers do) then they will know that the actor is 15 and Season 3 is set 6 months after the end of Season 2 and Bruce is 16.

So even a casual view should at least know that Bruce is at least 14 in Season 3, and seriously I can't find any reason for people to still say that Bruce is a "pre-teen". Before 2x14 there was an user at Reddit being so adamant that only less than 1 year had passed after the pilot because (before 2x14) we still hadn't seen Bruce celebrate his birthday (wtf??? as if we have to see all of his birthday onscreen), but I think 2x14 at least clear that up.

 

[Kathemy]

The other thing is that Selina's age was given as "13 with a juvenile record" (very early) in the show and she was 14-15 in real life. She's never been a preteen on the show. The only onscreen evidence of Bruce being 12 was when he found his father's letter in season 2 where he referenced him as a "12-year-old boy" while he was still alive. The actor turned 13 just before starting to shoot the pilot.

The only one of the cast who's actually been a "preteen" on the show is Clare, who was 12 during the first months of shooting of season 1. She's six months David's junior.