Gotham The Official Gotham News and discussion thread - Part 5

More like Batman: Year Zero, I'd wager.
 
I'm up to Episode 2 (season 4). This is going to take ages to catch up at only one a week. :dry:

Loving it so far though.
 
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Your legacy will be death and madness. :joker:
 
he_s_coming.png
 
So apparently someone on Reddit, leaked a few spoilers for the next few episodes, I don't know if it's true or not, but it seems exciting on what happens next:
  • The 'cataclysmic event' is a massive bomb. Airburst tactical nuke to be exact. This is an action carried out under orders from the US government to deal with the Indian Hill (yes, 'the freaks' are coming back, Man-Bat among them), League of Assassins and Clown Cult madness which has started to spread to the mainland (very Dark Knight Returns), what follows is in essence total blackout, Gotham isolated, and Arkham City battlelines being drawn with what's left of the ruins being claimed by all factions. Ra's sees this as Gotham's chance to be reborn as it's practically destroyed.
  • Jongleur and the Jester aren't the same character. Jongleur was in fact seen in the latest trailer alongside the Jester. The Jester is Ecco, and you can probably guess what Ecco's real name is revealed to be. She wasn't just Jeremiah's physical bodyguard, but also his psychological crutch.
  • Jeremiah is the Joker, and he will be called that, but not in so much of a titular sense. "Alright mate, got ourselves some kind of joker here now, have we?"
  • Jerome is back, but he's still dead. He continues to haunt Jeremiah and push him to become the 'new' Joker. The gas brings up repressed guilt from lying about Jerome as a child, makes him hallucinate Jerome tormenting him, he becomes more and more unstable, convinced that Jerome is in fact alive and coming for him. This is reinforced by plans Jerome made before his death where he arranged for his body to be removed from its coffin, and he recorded several videos to be aired following Cult attacks, intended to make it look as if he survived and is still on the loose. This is all responsible for giving Jeremiah the Joker's classic psychosis. (This is what's meant by the synopsis of a friend of Bruce's becoming paranoid and reckless.)
  • Jeremiah also develops a sort of split personality similar to Ed & Nygma, where the 'Joker' carries out acts of terror and Jeremiah remains oblivious, before they eventually become one and the same.
  • There is a second and more traditional Joker transformation, but sadly the hair doesn't turn green.
  • Penguin does indeed betray Butch and (attempt to) reverse the process to make Solomon his permanent lackey. It doesn't exactly work. We're now left with a Butch who is constantly in and out of states of awareness.
  • Renewal isn't looking likely, so this may be the last few episodes which is why they're going all out.
That's all I got for now.
If this is true, season 4 really can't be the end because it seems they are really hitting their stride more than ever. I think Gotham should end season 5 or 6. Especially based on the script that was leaked a while now.
 
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Maybe we can get a continuation on the DC streaming service? That's my hope if Fox cancels it.
 
Danny Cannon has already stated season 4 would end on a cliffhanger, so it's not really anything new.
 
Major spoilers for the next few episodes were possibly revealed on Reddit. Could be fake, but based on the last page for 4x22 being leaked, I'm thinking it's legit!

The 'cataclysmic event' is a massive bomb. Airburst tactical nuke to be exact. This is an action carried out under orders from the US government to deal with the Indian Hill (yes, 'the freaks' are coming back, Man-Bat among them), League of Assassins and Clown Cult madness which has started to spread to the mainland (very Dark Knight Returns), what follows is in essence total blackout, Gotham isolated, and Arkham City battlelines being drawn with what's left of the ruins being claimed by all factions. Ra's sees this as Gotham's chance to be reborn as it's practically destroyed.

Jongleur and the Jester aren't the same character. Jongleur was in fact seen in the latest trailer alongside the Jester. The Jester is Ecco, and you can probably guess what Ecco's real name is revealed to be. She wasn't just Jeremiah's physical bodyguard, but also his psychological crutch.

Jeremiah is the Joker, and he will be called that, but not in so much of a titular sense. "Alright mate, got ourselves some kind of joker here now, have we?"

Jerome is back, but he's still dead. He continues to haunt Jeremiah and push him to become the 'new' Joker. The gas brings up repressed guilt from lying about Jerome as a child, makes him hallucinate Jerome tormenting him, he becomes more and more unstable, convinced that Jerome is in fact alive and coming for him. This is reinforced by plans Jerome made before his death where he arranged for his body to be removed from its coffin, and he recorded several videos to be aired following Cult attacks, intended to make it look as if he survived and is still on the loose. This is all responsible for giving Jeremiah the Joker's classic psychosis. (This is what's meant by the synopsis of a friend of Bruce's becoming paranoid and reckless.)

Jeremiah also develops a sort of split personality similar to Ed & Nygma, where the 'Joker' carries out acts of terror and Jeremiah remains oblivious, before they eventually become one and the same.

There is a second and more traditional Joker transformation, but sadly the hair doesn't turn green.

Penguin does indeed betray Butch and (attempt to) reverse the process to make Solomon his permanent lackey. It doesn't exactly work. We're now left with a Butch who is constantly in and out of states of awareness.

Renewal isn't looking likely, so this may be the last few episodes which is why they're going all out.
 
I be dodging both Infinity War and Gotham spoilers like.

giphy.gif
 
So is it true that Gotham may not be renewed for another season? I know it's been on the bubble every year, but it would suck if the show got canned now.
 
So is it true that Gotham may not be renewed for another season? I know it's been on the bubble every year, but it would suck if the show got canned now.

Yes and no. We're not completely sure yet, but the TV ratings for it have been greatly decreasing this season. But the chairman of Gotham TV said he's hopeful Gotham would get another season, and there's a lot of push for a season 5, but we'll see. We'll probably find out in a week or two.

Still, I'm not getting my hopes up at the moment to prevent disappointment.
 
So is it true that Gotham may not be renewed for another season? I know it's been on the bubble every year, but it would suck if the show got canned now.

Well, the crew of Gotham and Fox seem optimistic it could be renewed. However, I'm actually feel a little nervous, as I'm really enjoying the show as it's found it's stride in the last few years. I always hate when my favourite shows end on cliffhangers, then get the ax, (Hannibal, etc.).

I hope Fox overlooks the ratings and simply moves the show to another day if it gets renewed.
 
And even if it does get the boot, there's always a chance it could get picked up by Netflix or the new DC streaming service.
 
Then again, there was that website said Gotham was quietly renewed for S5, but that was just a rumour. Hopefully, we find out the fate of the show in May.
 
Apparently there is no room for it on the schedule this fall. I hope, at the very least, we get a 13 episode 5th season for next spring.
 
Yeah, at the very least I hope for a 13 episode final season similar to what Fringe did for their 5th season.
 
I do think either a 13th episode season 5 should be done, but I feel like if Fox really wanted to, they would make space for Gotham on it's Fall season list.

CBR reminded me why I hate their lists, and why I:

https://www.cbr.com/dc-tv-villains/


Gotham villains that made the praise
10. DONE RIGHT: CARMINE FALCONE

Mob boss Carmine Falcone might be one of the most underutilized villains in Batman comics. This might be due in part to the fact that he doesn’t have a definite gimmick. He doesn’t wear a mask or use some sort of kitschy, themed weapon. He’s a classic criminal through and through, which makes him stand out like sore thumb when facing the Dark Knight.

But Falcone has actually be adapted in live action Batman properties twice. Once in Christopher Nolan’s Batman Begins, in which he’s portrayed by Tom Wilkinson, and again in the television series Gotham. The TV version of the character might be the most realized take on Falcone yet. Portrayed by actor, John Dorman, Gotham’s Falcone is well-written and deeply-connected to politicians and the criminal underworld at large, making him a formidable antagonist for the GCPD.

4. DONE RIGHT: THE PENGUIN
For every misstep the television show Gotham takes, there is a choice the series makes that almost makes up for it. Arguably the most compelling version of any Batman comic character who populates Gotham is Oswald Cobblepot, better known as The Penguin. In the comics, The Penguin has seen a lot of version iterations, but they all begin with a portly man who has a lot of money, free time, and a chip on his shoulder to express his anger in dastardly ways.

Cobblepot in Gotham, played by the phenomenal Robin Lord Taylor, circumvents everything we know of the character and gives audiences a fresh take that pays enough homage to the source material to please longtime fans, but enough nuance to make him seem like a brand new character.

Gotham villains that didn't make the cut
17. GOT WRONG: THE JOKER
One of the most appealing things about the Joker is the totally ambiguous nature of how he came to be the Clown Prince of Crime. There have been myriad telling and potential origins of the character throughout the years. Some of which hold more water than others. But the fact that his backstory is basically a multiple choice answer, depending on who is writing the comic and how the Joker feels that day (or which Joker we’re talking about) keeps him fresh and has for 80 years.
When Gotham took a stab at creating a Joker-esque character, many decisions the show made were great, but ultimately lead nowhere. The character of Jerome was indeed a menacing antagonist, and if the story had added up to something more than just a cheap fake out at the end, it would have been another great tale in the Joker mythos, but alas.

9. GOT WRONG: VICTOR ZSASZ
Batman’s eclectic rogues gallery has no shortage of monsters and madman. But one of the more unsung members of this dubious league is both monstrous and mad in equal measures: the deranged serial killer, Victor Zsasz. First appearing in 1992 in Batman: Shadow of the Bat #1, Zsasz helped solidify the darker turn Batman comics were taking in the late ‘80s and early ‘90s. His modus operandi and ghastly score keeping (which was cutting tally marks into his skin for each of his murders) were something that rarely had been seen in comic books.

Sadly, when Zsasz made his debut in the television show Gotham, a lot of the mania that made the character so terrifying was stripped away. This is by no means the fault of actor Anthony Carrigan. In fact, it’s his performance that makes the character even remotely interesting. This just isn’t our Zsasz.

5. GOT WRONG: THE RIDDLER
When in the right hands, The Riddler might be the most terrifying and formidable foes Batman has ever faced. Story arcs like “Year Zero” from the New 52 launch and the “The War of Jokes and Riddles” from DC Rebirth truly illustrate the savage intellect and brutal criminal tactics that Edward Nygma is willing to deploy to see his megalomaniacal plans come to fruition.

In fact, both of the aforementioned comic book story arcs do a wonderful job of showing a young Riddler come into his own as a villainous mastermind and a truly worthy advisory to Batman. The version of the character we see in the show Gotham, however, is not. While Cory Michael Smith’s portrayal of the character is serviceable within the context of a mediocre show, this version of The Riddler is less monstrously veracious and more obnoxious.

My problem with this is that Jerome has been stated since season 2 as not being the Joker, and was a Joker red-herring from the beginning, and he is more like the influencing force/presence of the Joker of Gotham (not to mention there are a lot of time Joker has died or been assumed Jerome at the last minute was revealed never to be the Joker. Yes he has Joker traits, but he was always stated to being the foundation of the Joker legacy, showing how the Joker is more than a man he is an ideal which is showcased so many times. Also there is Jeremiah who just got introduced and is going to be developed in the next 3 episodes showing the influence Jerome has on Jeremiah and Gotham as well.

Zsasz: The fact that Zsasz has a personality outside of "serial killer viewing people as zombies" is what the claim is how Gotham got him wrong. Honestly this seems like a poor nitpick.

Riddler: again, a baseless nitpick without much of an argument of how exactly they got him wrong (and “The War of Jokes and Riddles” barley did much to show Riddler a formidable threat). Gotham gets to depict a manic as well as a sympathetic layered side to the Riddler that is rarely seen outside of his sometime one if not 2 dimensional character outside of a few versions (seeing the combat of the duel nature of his persona). He is still a savage intellect who is slowly getting better at his craft and still has yet to be caught after his season 2 arrest. (ignoring ythe fact that thet called Gotham a mediocre show, when it is honestly better than a lot of what the CWverse shows has been doing the last few seasons, plus the fact that Gotham gets better with each season). Plus what they praise Penguin for is what they criticize about the Riddler.


It seems like a nitpick argument automatically writing off Gotham's take on the certain villains(And slightly praising it through backhanded comments) before seeing how they actually present them with passing interests, and criticizing some villains for the same reason they praised others.
 
I do think either a 13th episode season 5 should be done, but I feel like if Fox really wanted to, they would make space for Gotham on it's Fall season list.

CBR reminded me why I hate their lists, and why I:

https://www.cbr.com/dc-tv-villains/


Gotham villains that made the praise


Gotham villains that didn't make the cut


My problem with this is that Jerome has been stated since season 2 as not being the Joker, and was a Joker red-herring from the beginning, and he is more like the influencing force/presence of the Joker of Gotham (not to mention there are a lot of time Joker has died or been assumed Jerome at the last minute was revealed never to be the Joker. Yes he has Joker traits, but he was always stated to being the foundation of the Joker legacy, showing how the Joker is more than a man he is an ideal which is showcased so many times. Also there is Jeremiah who just got introduced and is going to be developed in the next 3 episodes showing the influence Jerome has on Jeremiah and Gotham as well.

Zsasz: The fact that Zsasz has a personality outside of "serial killer viewing people as zombies" is what the claim is how Gotham got him wrong. Honestly this seems like a poor nitpick.

Riddler: again, a baseless nitpick without much of an argument of how exactly they got him wrong (and “The War of Jokes and Riddles” barley did much to show Riddler a formidable threat). Gotham gets to depict a manic as well as a sympathetic layered side to the Riddler that is rarely seen outside of his sometime one if not 2 dimensional character outside of a few versions (seeing the combat of the duel nature of his persona). He is still a savage intellect who is slowly getting better at his craft and still has yet to be caught after his season 2 arrest. (ignoring ythe fact that thet called Gotham a mediocre show, when it is honestly better than a lot of what the CWverse shows has been doing the last few seasons, plus the fact that Gotham gets better with each season). Plus what they praise Penguin for is what they criticize about the Riddler.


It seems like a nitpick argument automatically writing off Gotham's take on the certain villains(And slightly praising it through backhanded comments) before seeing how they actually present them with passing interests, and criticizing some villains for the same reason they praised others.
Two obvious problems with this imo. One, it makes Jerome more important then the Joker. It makes the Joker a lesser Jerome that was his idea. Not the Joker, the force of nature. Second, they gave the Joker an origin, one that again makes him lesser.
 
Gotham has released a clip of the Joker. Haven't seen it 'cause I wanna avoid spoilers, but to the rest of you who wanna see it, enjoy:

[YT]PN5-01nKwq0[/YT]
 
I gotta imagine Gotham isn't super expensive and their ratings are enough to keep it being renewed. FOX really doesn't have much better alternatives. Unless they're really hoping for something new this Fall.
 
Considering the worldwide deal they have with Netflix, they might just be willing to give it a final 13 ep season 5.

Yeah, the show is crazy expensive as it is and I doubt FOX will be desperate to keep it around. :csad:

Still, it's had a pretty good run.
 

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