Gotham The Official Gotham News and discussion thread - Part 5

https://www.spoilertv.com/2018/05/ratings-news-4th-may-2018.html

I think it's 99% safe to say, given these ratings of episode 20, that Gotham's pretty much done for. :csad:

Now whether it'll get picked up by another network (Netflix, DC streaming) or not is another story, but I'm currently feeling pessimistic enough to believe it won't be.

I looked at the ratings for various other shows at Fox and even though a lot of them had low ratings, some of them managed to be renewed such as Brooklyn Nine-Nine, Last Man on Earth, The Exorcist, which The S1 finale had a rating of 1.75.

Gotham may be a different story since most of the shows that were renewed were sitcoms and also the budget, but something to think about.
 
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They'll definitely want to keep it out of New York if they move forward.
 
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Cameron's gonna do great things these last two episodes.
 
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Cameron's gonna do great things these last two episodes.
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I love this! This looks amazing!
 
I think folks up in arms about the ratings should keep in mind that networks and ratings are about more than just the day one views. Sure, it helps to have a good start, but then you factor in the Live+3 and DVR ratings, which are also a big factor.
 
Two obvious problems with this imo. One, it makes Jerome more important then the Joker. It makes the Joker a lesser Jerome that was his idea. Not the Joker, the force of nature. Second, they gave the Joker an origin, one that again makes him lesser.

I'm sorry, I never replied to this (A bad habit I need to kick), but I was waiting for more information on Jeremiah before I could actually argue this or not.

showrunner Danny Cannon recently said (when asked if Jeremiah would be called "Joker"): "Well, I think that just spawned the conversation of the idea of it, of the Joker not being a one person, but like I said, it's a personality. It's a way of thinking. It's more powerful than just one person. I don't think that's just one person. I think that is a way of life, it's an ideology." That hints more at there being a 'Multiple Jokers' scenario than anything else.

As a bonus - Jerome's final words were "I'm not a man, I'm an idea", and Jeremiah seems to act specifically like the calm and calculating Golden Age version of the Joker, while Jerome was a red herring, based on the elements of all the Joker who came before him like Mark Hamill, Heath Ledger, Jack Nicholson, etc and what everyone expected the Joker to be and act like, while Jeremiah is what the Joker actually is, and is someone completely unexpected.
joker6_0.jpg


This shows it, Jerome was never more important or Joker isn't going to be a lesser figure. His arrogance and ego would never allow for it. He isn't second fiddle to anyone, and the only way to show that is by outdoing it. The name ultimately doesn't matter, it's the idea and actions that make the Joker a threat. Jeremiah is still a force of nature and a threat and while he is implementing Jerome's ideas, he is doing it through his "Sane" methods thus proving he is the better Joker. He spits on the idea that Jerome wins through him,as he died while Jeremiah (or the Joker) lives. Jerome created a cult in his death/resurrection/death, but Jeremiah easily got them to rally around him in one episode by proving his effectiveness. As for the Joker origins making Jerome and/or Jeremiah, a lesser Joker: Killing Joke (even with the multiple choice origin was an origin that a lot of writers used or claimed as the main Joker origin for decades), Lovers and Madmen, 1989 Batman movie, among other gave Joker in one way or another and that still made him as much of a threat and dangerous figure regardless. While the mystery is what makes Joker such a terrifying figure and well loved, it isn't the only thing. This could be considered another multiple choice origins of sorts. The comics doesn't define how this Joker would be look at, as well as vice-versa.

In fact, someone recently brought up this interesting fact: "This one is a little more nuanced. Honestly this is kind of brilliant because it leaves a huge mystery still for the Joker's origin because the answer is......we don't really know. Clearly he had an extreme reaction to the gas I mean we saw him flipping the hell out and knocking stuff over trying to fight it (Maybe it was just painful?), BUT there are some things that point to Jeremiah possibly already being crazy. First off, when Jim and Bullock pointed guns at him in their first meeting he seemed waaay too calm about it. Secondly, he did make up lies about Jerome which resulted in him being abused. Thirdly, Jerome clearly believed that he was putting on an act and that Jeremiah was really just as crazy as him, he said as much. On the other hand it could be that the experience left Jeremiah delusional about what happened I.E. (Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another). We saw all of the same effects as the first Joker gas so why would that one effect not work? Jeremiah said that Jerome's gas was a "dud", but it wasn't Jerome's gas...it was Scarecrow's and I'm sorry but he seems to know what he is doing. Why would his gas fail? Have we ever seen scarecrow's gas fail anywhere else? No, they work exactly as intended. If it is the case that Jeremiah was made crazy by the gas then it makes the Joker story more poetic. Jeremiah created Jerome by creating the circumstances that would get him abused, and Jerome created the Joker as a result of his madness. Joker created Joker."
 
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I never really liked the ideology concept, to be honest. It robs Batman of having his struggle with the Joker lasting for nearly half a lifetime. Instead, he'd be fighting like 15 Jokers in twenty years after becoming Batman, and for me it just robs that impact the character could have as well as his uniqueness as a villain.

I hope Jeremiah's it. He can still be the pillar for the ideology, but have him be the Joker that fights Bruce when he becomes Batman and staying the only one.
 
I never really liked the ideology concept, to be honest. It robs Batman of having his struggle with the Joker lasting for nearly half a lifetime. Instead, he'd be fighting like 15 Jokers in twenty years after becoming Batman, and for me it just robs that impact the character could have as well as his uniqueness as a villain.

I hope Jeremiah's it. He can still be the pillar for the ideology, but have him be the Joker that fights Bruce when he becomes Batman and staying the only one.

I agree with this! Aside from the points you mentioned, if someone else plays Joker, they wouldn’t do as well! Even if they did find someway to keep Cameron during a hypothetical future season, though a clone, plastic surgery to resemble Jerome/Jeremiah, another relative, it would just be convoluted .Plus, Jeremiah already has the appearance of Joker spot-on.

Not sure if we’ll get a S5, but I want to be optimistic until then.
 
Well, I'm not exactly hopeful it will, but we'll see.
 
God damn this show SUCKS! It's like some youtube user decided to record some horrible cosplay and instead of uploading it on youtube they somehow managed to upload it to the FOX network.
 
God damn this show SUCKS! It's like some youtube user decided to record some horrible cosplay and instead of uploading it on youtube they somehow managed to upload it to the FOX network.

Better than Daredevil and Jessica Jones.
 
Better than Daredevil and Jessica Jones.

I'm not a Marvel fan if that's what you're getting at. I just watched an episode of Gotham and it looks like everything is terrible: the casting, the direction, the set design, etc. It looks awful in every way. Literally looks like some fanboy filmed some bad cosplay and I'm not even kidding.
 
Man, something about these last few episodes just bring out the Gotham haters, doesn't it? :hehe:

I take it that despite you disliking this show that much, you'll still post here about how much you hate it instead of moving on and doing something with your life?
 
God damn this show SUCKS! It's like some youtube user decided to record some horrible cosplay and instead of uploading it on youtube they somehow managed to upload it to the FOX network.

I’m sorry that the show annoys you that much. Have you finished listing what you hate about the show yet so I can stop holding my breath?
 
Damn, I'm only getting an episode a week on the U.K. channel E4 and still so far behind. Only up to episode 4 (of season 4).
 
Damn, I'm only getting an episode a week on the U.K. channel E4 and still so far behind. Only up to episode 4 (of season 4).

Same, but at least we're actually getting this season. I thought we'd be waiting until Netflix dropped it in September again.

Nice to have it back on TV.
 
Same, but at least we're actually getting this season. I thought we'd be waiting until Netflix dropped it in September again.

Nice to have it back on TV.

Oh has it always been like this? Oh that sucks. I didn't realise as I only caught up on the first 3 seasons in one go on Netflix.
 
Oh has it always been like this? Oh that sucks. I didn't realise as I only caught up on the first 3 seasons in one go on Netflix.

Channel 5 aired the first two seasons. Something weird happened with season 3 so neither Channel 5 or any other network aired it. I guess they just didn't want to pay the money moving forward.

Netflix gets to stream each season after a certain point (usually every September), but thankfully E4 picked up season 4 and they are usually pretty good to their US acquisitions.
 
Channel 5 aired the first two seasons. Something weird happened with season 3 so neither Channel 5 or any other network aired it. I guess they just didn't want to pay the money moving forward.

Netflix gets to stream each season after a certain point (usually every September), but thankfully E4 picked it up season 4 and they are usually pretty good to its US acquisitions.

Oh I see, thanks.

I'm definitely glad we don't have to wait till September.
 
Here in Portugal they air a season on Fox almost a year after a season's done in the US.
 

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